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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Michaelh139 on August 09, 2010, 08:48:27 pm
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Now I dont want it to seem like I'm just some whiner but...
Enough is enough.
Now I know Smallguns only real power is in critical shots, but when quite literally every shot knocks you out or insta kills you, well fuck it everyone can see where im going with this no? 95% crit chance in the eyes is absolutely ludicrous to say the least and makes them unstoppable, the only way to win is to either crit first or swarm or use psycho, whereas a drug SHOULD NOT be absolutey necessary to win against any foe, it should only give a boost, not ultimate power, and although there are a few other ways it simply seems impossible to beat any critical shot build alone with any build other than another crit build.
I don't have any solution oher than making eyes at lest 75% chance not the insane 95%.
Not to mention a crit build being able to kill a fully equipped big gunner 21 lvl BA Psycho and Buffout with a god damn BB gun O.o.
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Well, imagine a BB coming into your eye, then pass the eye... Going into your brain... Damaging your vital areas...
It is logical, that you will die! The gun and ammo won't matter! And the chance to insta kill isn't so high anyway. In my opinion, shot in the eye should ALMOST ALWAYS mean death. Maybe like on the rat critical table? Just lets reduce the chance to hit in eyes, because when aiming in the eyes your chance to hit should go down drastically, so at max distance even with 300% in SG you still wouldn't have 95% to shot...
Second option, don't do anything.
And snipers usually loose with "fully equipped big gunners 21 lvl BA Psycho and Buffout" even if they have Sniper Rifle. I think it's kind of balanced the way it is now.
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I nev- nevermind I did kinda say i want the chance to crit to go down but your right it should mean death if you get shot in the eyes but the eyes are pretty fucking small, your chance to hit them even from just a few feet away would be like 20%, that is if you purposely aimed for them.
So yeah, at least increase the aimshot eye difficulty and we'll call it even :P.
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I wouldn´t say it´s necessarily about realism, but a chance to actually fight back.
People keep talking about the "combat system" but when it comes to insta kills, I just ask: what combat system?
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It's good the way it is now.
The 60% hit chance penalty is more than enough to balance it.
Besides, you can turn sideways at the end of your turn like everyone is doing so you don't get eyeshot.
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It's good the way it is now.
The 60% hit chance penalty is more than enough to balance it.
Besides, you can turn sideways at the end of your turn like everyone is doing so you don't get eyeshot.
Well, in turn based its alright, but obviously the majority of this game´s combat is in RT. You´d have to have your spider senses to tingle if you want to dodge those eyeshots in RT.
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It's good the way it is now.
The 60% hit chance penalty is more than enough to balance it.
Besides, you can turn sideways at the end of your turn like everyone is doing so you don't get eyeshot.
Not everyone uses turnbased yoz, some people fight in real time or in towns... And that is where majority pvp happens...
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In rt you can do it right after you shoot and wait for the ap to recharge. Against multiple opponents you are kind of screwed though :)
Edit: I don't want small gunners to be nerfed. They are pretty weak already.
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In rt you can do it right after you shoot and wait for the ap to recharge. Against multiple opponents you are kind of screwed though :)
Edit: I don't want small gunners to be nerfed. They are pretty weak already.
Crits aren't just for smallgunners although it is the foundation of ther power... But the only people who say smallguns are weak are people who only burst instead of aim with them, they want mini-miniguns and its just not gonna happen. But a BB gun being being able to pierce a BA (ITS A BB!!!!!!!!!!) and not only that but knock the prick out once is absolutely ridiculous, and when it happens over and over and over and over, knock out knock out knock out knock out after knockout surely something is wrong here!??!?
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I almost lost a 1 v 1 fight to someone with a Plasma Rifle while I had Tesla Armor, a Minigun, and 10 EN. I got the jump on her but she kepting knocking me down and out for no damage and got several armor bypasses. The only thing that let me win the fight was that I had super stimpaks and she didn't.
Can the devs post the crit table for players? I won't be crying for a nerf until I see the crit table to make sure I'm not just being fooled by chance. It does take 10 luck, 3x more crits, better crits, and BROF to have the best crits.
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But a BB gun being being able to pierce a BA (ITS A BB!!!!!!!!!!)
Hey, but when you shot in the eyes, you often get armor bypass, because the armor doesn't protect your eyes! The only armor that would protect the eyes well should be the Power Armor, because it has a nice helmet. Logical.
Can the devs post the crit table for players? I won't be crying for a nerf until I see the crit table to make sure I'm not just being fooled by chance. It does take 10 luck, 3x more crits, better crits, and BROF to have the best crits.
1. I'm basing on this site http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_hit_tables because the tables from here seem very similiar to these found in FOnline. In example look on rat critical table - 5/6 options for eyes are insta kills, and w00t - in game you notice, that if you don't have Better Criticals perk, it's very easy to insta kill a rat, and when you have it, you ALWAYS kill a rat when having a critical in the eyes ! So i think it is correct. Same with player - 1/6 options is insta kill, when you don't have Better Criticals perk you can not insta kill, and when you have it, the frequency of insta killing is about... 1/5?(basing on my experience) So it matches again.
2. How could BRoF affect criticals?
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The weapons have never been as balanced as now. If you dont see that, the proofs are all around. You see all kind of builds in TC, you see all kind of builds in smallscale pvp.
Now I know Smallguns only real power is in critical shots, but when quite literally every shot knocks you out or insta kills you, it simply seems impossible to beat any critical shot build alone with any build other than another crit build.
Bigguner needs 1-2 bursts to kill the sniper. Just dont let him shoot you in the eyes and you are fine.
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1. I'm basing on this site http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_hit_tables because the tables from here seem very similiar to these found in FOnline. In example look on rat critical table - 5/6 options for eyes are insta kills, and w00t - in game you notice, that if you don't have Better Criticals perk, it's very easy to insta kill a rat, and when you have it, you ALWAYS kill a rat when having a critical in the eyes ! So i think it is correct. Same with player - 1/6 options is insta kill, when you don't have Better Criticals perk you can not insta kill, and when you have it, the frequency of insta killing is about... 1/5?(basing on my experience) So it matches again.
Animal tables are unchanged, so the rat table is exactly that one. Human tables are different though.
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Hey, but when you shot in the eyes, you often get armor bypass, because the armor doesn't protect your eyes! The only armor that would protect the eyes well should be the Power Armor, because it has a nice helmet. Logical.
For 1 lets please forget about insta kills, because you obviously dont get what i meant by that. I meant every shot is a knockout knock down armor bypass which in in general in any pvp fight being knocked out is pretty much an insta kill cus you cant do shit while your either immediately bursted in face right after or slowly picked off and continuosly knocked out when you get back up.
And about the BA.... IT DOESNT HAVE A HELMET!??! Then what is that shiny green round thing on my head whenever I put one on!?
The weapons have never been as balanced as now. If you dont see that, the proofs are all around. You see all kind of builds in TC, you see all kind of builds in smallscale pvp.Bigguner needs 1-2 bursts to kill the sniper. Just dont let him shoot you in the eyes and you are fine.
As its already been discussed ::), you'd need dem spida senses to know when the need is to look the other way to keept from getting shot in the eyes... Its not like you see a little warning right before he goes for your eyes.
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I can see the BA helmet you are talking about too, but the front part of the helmet, the one covering your eyes, for me it seems to be... sunglasses? I doubt they provide you a good eyes protection :P
Knock out, knock down... Yeah, shot in the eyes must be painful, don't you think? :D
Animal tables are unchanged, so the rat table is exactly that one. Human tables are different though.
Could you show them to us? Is it so important to hide the human critical table?
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As its already been discussed ::), you'd need dem spida senses to know when the need is to look the other way to keept from getting shot in the eyes... Its not like you see a little warning right before he goes for your eyes.
Maybe you just need more experience, thats all. I am sure spider senses are not neccesary.
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Maybe you just need more experience, thats all. I am sure spider senses are not neccesary.
Believe me, they are.
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Michaelh139 forget about it, all they can do is bring magic back to game , sneak is working isnt it ? just make another super duper sneak pvp char and burst people from 1 hex, run around them holding an avenger, this game is funny
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One problem with aimed crits is that the shot is released immediately. Raising your gun, aiming and shooting doesn't take any time only the cooldown which comes AFTER your action. It works okay in turn based but doesn't make much sense in rt.
Second thing is the constant 95% hit chance due to powerbuilding. Players can't really take cover and reduce enemy's hit chance, they can only run beyond enemy's LoS.
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Second thing is the constant 95% hit chance due to powerbuilding. Players can't really take cover and reduce enemy's hit chance, they can only run beyond enemy's LoS.
Wouldn't be a problem if this: http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=4791.0
Was implemented...
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Wouldn't be a problem if this: http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=4791.0
Was implemented...
Yes it would because your suggestion is about damage whilst big part of crit's effectiveness comes from the side effects like knockdown.
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Yes it would because your suggestion is about damage whilst big part of crit's effectiveness comes from the side effects like knockdown.
And damage resist would give you chance of getting up without insta death.... 10% les damage can save your life, ask anyone who's taken Toughness perk ...
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And damage resist would give you chance of getting up without insta death.... 10% les damage can save your life, ask anyone who's taken Toughness perk ...
I personally roll with 2x toughness and it doesn't help against knockdown crits because I'm always knocked down and the enemy chips me off little by little.
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Im just saying it gives you a better chance, gives you more time for the guy to fail a knock out crit and eithe burst his ass or cheese it.
I can see the BA helmet you are talking about too, but the front part of the helmet, the one covering your eyes, for me it seems to be... sunglasses? I doubt they provide you a good eyes protection :P
Knock out, knock down... Yeah, shot in the eyes must be painful, don't you think? :D
Goggles, much thicker than glasses, and a BB wouldn't be able to penetrate it. ::)
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Maybe make it impossible to shoot in eyes when the target is lying on ground ? Only head.
that would make sense. It's not the case right now is it ?
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Maybe make it impossible to shoot in eyes when the target is lying on ground ? Only head.
that would make sense. It's not the case right now is it ?
Would Depend if its face down or face up :P.
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You want to make small gunners even more useless? I just had a fight against a big gunner and I didn't stand a chance. Why? Because you can't really use your advantages as a sniper in a town. You need shitloads of APs to shoot one time and your damage is still pretty low. If you did not have the luck to cripple him he can shoot several times without aiming and a damage of 100 (minimum) per shot. And if you cripple him he's propably using his doctor skill anyway. And look at the range of those weapons.
LSW -> 35
Minigun -> 30
Avenger -> 35
Assault Rifle -> 42
Hunting Rifle -> 40
Sniper Rifle -> 50
Big gunners have a huge advantage in my opinion which is changing with the new autoaim system hopefully.
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I say that crits should stay as they are now, and if instakills are removed (or the crits are nerfed) the lethality of big guns should be nerfed as well, crits are small-gunners way of getting by...
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i use small guns crits is the only way to win and dont say smg i saw ahbobsaget get bursted 4 times with a p90 for no damage. also the only thing that bugs me is frikin plasma nades example i gave 3 little girls plasma nades 4 guys combat armor dead i mean i was like wtf my lucky day
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it's always fun to equip your children with plasma nades, nobody really expects a little kid to kill you and then rape you in the ass, it's a priceless moment, noteworthy of epic proportions of win...
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yeah i made 20k of camping tubbies with those little girls
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you make me proud by taking flick's business to a whole new level ;)
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I am constantly getting insta killed by Sex Toy.... Its always you have been hit for 198 hitpoints knocked out and had your armor bypassed WITH EVERY FIRST SHOT!
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Once I blinded biggunner and he still managed to burst me for 100hp from like 15 hexes. Seriously, big guns are powerful enough, you just need a weapon and enough strength to hold it. And with small guns you need to make specific build to at least have a CHANCE to win with a biggunner. Big guns are better in overall, with small guns you need more thinking and tactics to take out bigger enemy. Don't cry on forums to nerf snipers just because you were killed by some random player, jeez.
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Once I blinded biggunner and he still managed to burst me for 100hp from like 15 hexes. Seriously, big guns are powerful enough, you just need a weapon and enough strength to hold it. And with small guns you need to make specific build to at least have a CHANCE to win with a biggunner. Big guns are better in overall, with small guns you need more thinking and tactics to take out bigger enemy. Don't cry on forums to nerf snipers just because you were killed by some random player, jeez.
Over and over with the same insta kil on the first shot is not reason enough?
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So what? Smallgunners get killed by miniguns that hit them for 500 dmg in first burst, so yeah...
Also you forget that eyeshotter have to bring a HUGE WINDOW that covers 80% of the screen and choose the bodypart to shoot at. While biggunners can run around shooting mindlessy dealing huge damage without much effort. Anyway, why would you go to the place where is a sniper and get yourself constantly killed? Too many alts or too many armors?
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it's always fun to equip your children with plasma nades, nobody really expects a little kid to kill you and then rape you in the ass, it's a priceless moment, noteworthy of epic proportions of win...
Not to mention brahmins... oops I hope that's fixed.
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So what? Smallgunners get killed by miniguns that hit them for 500 dmg in first burst, so yeah...
Also you forget that eyeshotter have to bring a HUGE WINDOW that covers 80% of the screen and choose the bodypart to shoot at. While biggunners can run around shooting mindlessy dealing huge damage without much effort. Anyway, why would you go to the place where is a sniper and get yourself constantly killed? Too many alts or too many armors?
Its not that i keep going to a place where said sniper constantly is, its just every time I see, that name I see my player on the ground at 000 hp, dead with the log: "You were critically hit in te eyes for 199 hp knocked down and knocked down." (my max hp is 199 so its an insta kill and with max crits etc is only supposed to be a 5% chance not 95%)
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Then you have just bad luck, nothing more.
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a 5% chance
Impossible, the minimal chance of insta kill is 20%. I know the tables for humans are changed, but the way they are working are still the same - you can roll 1-100 without better criticals, and 21-120 with. 101-120 is the insta kill when aiming in eyes(and in head, though im not sure). The only other possible way is removing insta kill, which didn't happen as you see. So, logically it must be 20%.
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i am sorry but if you get lucky you can survive still small gunners are not ult and energy is the same
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Impossible, the minimal chance of insta kill is 20%. I know the tables for humans are changed, but the way they are working are still the same - you can roll 1-100 without better criticals, and 21-120 with. 101-120 is the insta kill when aiming in eyes(and in head, though im not sure). The only other possible way is removing insta kill, which didn't happen as you see. So, logically it must be 20%.
actually it is 5%, the devs have said so themselves, my guess is that the chance to instakill is this 114-120 or something like that
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Then why in one unarmed fighting competition I was insta killed about 5 times by the same person? :P Luuckeeer.
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Don't nerf them for gods sake! In 15 levels of playing with my sniper char I have gotten only 1 insta kill out of 200+ humanoid kills. My critical chance is 25% and still can't make a real insta-kill. Go play sniper yourself and then talk. A little ridiculous is the rat table tho - with a BB gun you can easily get level 21.
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I am constantly getting insta killed by Sex Toy.... Its always you have been hit for 198 hitpoints knocked out and had your armor bypassed WITH EVERY FIRST SHOT!
Sex Toy is in my team.
Oh sorry.... what a pitty that a big gun with 10 in endurance and 6 in perception makes less criticals than a critical sniper. Critical sniper with a special build made for maximalizing criticals. But of course with lacks elsewhere.
You should think about that before complaint.
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Comparing big gun bursts to sniper crits certainly do not somehow remove the fact that crits are powerful or some people are fed up being oneshotted.
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Sex Toy is in my team.
Oh sorry.... what a pitty that a big gun with 10 in endurance and 6 in perception makes less criticals than a critical sniper. Critical sniper with a special build made for maximalizing criticals. But of course with lacks elsewhere.
You should think about that before complaint.
Wow you have literally no idea what your talking about, (aside from the third sentence) I don't even play on my big gunner and it only has around 100 hp atm whereas I already mentioned the char I use has 199 hp, besides, this has nothing to do with the 10 endurance or any other stat, (excep maybe Luck) its about continuous insta kills that make a fight impossible.
think before posting...
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too bad it's 5% for instakills whereas there is a 80% chance to be instakilled by a minigunner (3xbursts, 3 seconds to complete, 2xBRD, AP ammo, avenger minigun) whereas a sniper is lucky if he manages to land a deadly critical hit, a 5 instakills in a row against you is just freakishly good critical table rolls, they depend on "RL:The Game" luck rolls if you must know...
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too bad it's 5% for instakills whereas there is a 80% chance to be instakilled by a minigunner (3xbursts, 3 seconds to complete, 2xBRD, AP ammo, avenger minigun) whereas a sniper is lucky if he manages to land a deadly critical hit, a 5 instakills in a row against you is just freakishly good critical table rolls, they depend on "RL:The Game" luck rolls if you must know...
Oh goaaawwwdd noooo!! *Head pops*
true true though ... But remeber that a knockout = dead for the most part.
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there's still a 20% chance to recover from it,whereas death has a 0% survivability rate...
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there's still a 20% chance to recover from it,whereas death has a 0% survivability rate...
lol you can recover from it but chances are you'll get quick bursted by some prick while your down... Or simply slowly die from constant nutshots or some other crap xD.
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yes, chances, bur a triple burst doesn't leave much to chance, in other words, playing a sniper is the equivalent to gambling
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You want to make small gunners even more useless? I just had a fight against a big gunner and I didn't stand a chance. Why? Because you can't really use your advantages as a sniper in a town. You need shitloads of APs to shoot one time and your damage is still pretty low. If you did not have the luck to cripple him he can shoot several times without aiming and a damage of 100 (minimum) per shot. And if you cripple him he's propably using his doctor skill anyway.
Agreed 100%
I've been playing since begin of OB3 and I always - believe it or not - played as sniper. And can count in my hands how many times I instant kill players.
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A typical sniper build with 10 PE and 10 LK, has like 120 hp? Maybe 140? That's about one minigun burst. TC as the name says take place in cities, there are no big cities really so biggunners usually have an advantage. The only place a sniper has advantage over biggunner is the middle of the desert and he still has to be lucky enough to don't spawn next to you. Anyway, when you fight in TC you do it alone or sth? Because you say you get instahurt to 0hp and then someone bursts you to death. I always thought that TC is like TDM and when one is on the ground, teammates try to help him, cover him or take the bullets on their chests to rescue a fellow soldier. You rush right ahead, get instakilled when your team didn't even entered the town then you moan on forums?
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A typical sniper build with 10 PE and 10 LK, has like 120 hp? Maybe 140? That's about one minigun burst. TC as the name says take place in cities, there are no big cities really so biggunners usually have an advantage. The only place a sniper has advantage over biggunner is the middle of the desert and he still has to be lucky enough to don't spawn next to you. Anyway, when you fight in TC you do it alone or sth? Because you say you get instahurt to 0hp and then someone bursts you to death. I always thought that TC is like TDM and when one is on the ground, teammates try to help him, cover him or take the bullets on their chests to rescue a fellow soldier. You rush right ahead, get instakilled when your team didn't even entered the town then you moan on forums?
Well at least that last sentence was in question format else you'd been the most clueless person i've met in my entire life :o.
I don't do TC, I OCCASSIONALY do TDM in Reno but reno isnt TCable so its just go in shoot a couple bad guys and get out but every fucking time I see that name, I see 000 hp.... I don't even have time to react. I honestly think she uses aimbot but thats not topic of this thread...
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I went there with my level 1 bluesuit with 36 hp and got shot by "her" in the head for 14 hp or something like that. You have bad luck, that's all.
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Here is the reason you get instakilled there: you PK "OCCASSIONALY" so if you would do it more often you could actually see how rare instakill crits are. You just ran to the New Reno, got killed few times and you made a baww thread. "OMG NERF SNOIPERS THEY KILLED ME BAAaaww"
You woudn't even bother going on forums if you won't be killed right?
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Maybe they should just flat out cap weapon skills at a lower number than other skillsso a 95% hit chance isn't necessarily always possible or practical in terms of character building? If the element of chance - more importantly - of actually missing - is present then nothing else really needs to be adjusted. You don't do any damage on the crit table if you miss, basically.
The real trouble would be finding "the sweet spot" where missing and hitting aren't so left up to chance that the fun is sucked out of the system - but not what it seems to be currently where everything hits everyone and everything dies in one shot which, similarly, sucks the fun out of the system for a great number of people.
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Here is the reason you get instakilled there: you PK "OCCASSIONALY" so if you would do it more often you could actually see how rare instakill crits are. You just ran to the New Reno, got killed few times and you made a baww thread. "OMG NERF SNOIPERS THEY KILLED ME BAAaaww"
You woudn't even bother going on forums if you won't be killed right?
No, I practically DO TC in Reno cus I go there ALL THE TIME to pk, not a I day I don't spend at least an hour or two hunting people in that town either by myself or with a couple friends besides I have been in TC battles before and have been playing the pvp powerbuild style for about 4 months now since I started playing 8 months ago i think I have a good idea what is and isn't. Now if you would stop the ignorant trolling...
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Actually, you just said you only PK "occassionaly". So what's the final thought? You do it occassionaly or all the time? You are just the butthurt baby that got owned by a snoiper, because "how in the world a small gunner could own the biggunner!?"
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Actually, you just said you only PK "occassionaly". So what's the final thought? You do it occassionaly or all the time? You are just the butthurt baby that got owned by a snoiper, because "how in the world a small gunner could own the biggunner!?"
You really are the ignorant one aren't you? Are you even reading my posts or reading what you want to see?
I SAID: " I OCCASSIONALLY DO "TDM" NOT OCCASSIONALLY ALONE "
I ALSO SAID: " I DONT EVEN USE MY BIG GUNNER BUILD, I ONLY USE MY S.G. AND THE BG GUNER ONLY HAS 100 HP ATM WHEREAS I SAID MY S.G. HAS 199 "
Now thenthink before posting.
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"NOT OCCASSIONALLY" means often. So you often go alone there and die. Cool.
So you lost against SG character using SG build? Umm, your enemy had better build obviously. Where is the problem?
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"NOT OCCASSIONALLY" means often. So you often go alone there and die. Cool.
So you lost against SG character using SG build? Umm, your enemy had better build obviously. Where is the problem?
You are obviously trolling, making false assumptions "So you often go alone there and die", which I actually go with mercs when alone ;D.
How the hell does "NOT OCCASIONALLY" mean often? Not occasionally means: Not often, get your facts right.
Its not losing to a SG build using a SG build(I would prefer more of this instead of those damn avenger tanks but we all know about this problem), its how I have no chance to win in the fight, its constant insta kills which means, I'm instantly dead in the first shot, which means, especially if she is using aimbot, I literally have no chance to win whatsoever, which is ridiculous.
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Maybe they should just flat out cap weapon skills at a lower number than other skillsso a 95% hit chance isn't necessarily always possible or practical in terms of character building? If the element of chance - more importantly - of actually missing - is present then nothing else really needs to be adjusted. You don't do any damage on the crit table if you miss, basically.
The real trouble would be finding "the sweet spot" where missing and hitting aren't so left up to chance that the fun is sucked out of the system - but not what it seems to be currently where everything hits everyone and everything dies in one shot which, similarly, sucks the fun out of the system for a great number of people.
too bad biggunners need lower skills due to their no aimed shot bit, if the cap to hit eyes would be 60% I'd expect that it should be balanced out by giving it an 80% chance to instakill, simple as that, every time someone suggests to make a lower cap for combat skills, guess who suffers if it willbe implemented? yes, snipers...