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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Hololasima on April 24, 2010, 10:57:50 am
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Can i ask when we will be have solution for exploit called sneak ?
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On the other side, will the solution be as radical as making sneaking useless.
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Is old FoV back on?
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Sius : No
Alvarez : But now is sneak more than overpower. Its VERY against game.
For example, against Instants you have chances. Against sneak ? Absolutely not, you cant.
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But now is sneak more than overpower. Its VERY against game.
I agree with you about that. However, that wouldn't be that bad if the sneak wouldn't be nerfed that much for unarmed, agile characters.
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Well then there is nothing to talk about. Until the FoV is back on I doubt there will be any hotfix for sneaking. Changes should be done at environment that is designed to be ingame, not when there is some backup because of technical difficulties.
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Problem is that seems they dont have some "quick hotfix" for it.
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And so we don't have for sneak.
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Lexx you know what kind of characters we have in towns ?
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I agree with you about that. However, that wouldn't be that bad if the sneak wouldn't be nerfed that much for HtH, agile characters.
Fix'd.
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Sneak is slightly overpowered now. If you're not a noob - you will find and kill sneakers.
We got training on our base. 1 energo-sniper killed 3 sneakers.
So stop whining and learn how to play.
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Please, another person who typing "Learn how to play"
So when avenger minigun kill me from one hex so i must learn how to play right ?
Good solution Chuva.
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Problem is that seems they dont have some "quick hotfix" for it.
Hotfix would be to turn it off once again. Good game mechanics aren't made quickly.
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Please, another person who typing "Learn how to play"
So when avenger minigun kill me from one hex so i must learn how to play right ?
Good solution Chuva.
If someone managed to kill you with a minigun at 1 hex, it's your bad, as we all know, 3 hex is the least vision range vs sneak and have you ever thought how heavy the investment into sneak should be to make it effective?
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Its simple funny. Go fight against this kind of sneakers ok ? Then tell me
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Bulldog, you really havent ever fight against good big Guns sneak... I can confirm what Holo say, and it's true that be killed by a burst a 1hex is annoying and you can't do anything to counter that.
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Bulldog, you really havent ever fight against good big Guns sneak... I can confirm what Holo say, and it's true that be killed by a burst a 1hex is annoying and you can't do anything to counter that.
I have fought, I've lost the fight, but it was my fault, I admit it.
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I have fought, I've lost the fight, but it was my fault, I admit it.
Yeah your fault because you didn't do PE 10 character.
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Yeah your fault because you didn't do PE 10 character.
Lol. We can easyly see those who do PvP and know the mecanics and those who don't. You don't. Even with 10 Perception you're fucked with a sneaker.
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yes it is overpowered now, but i hope, they will change it to afterwipe sneaking where was sneak usable but just if you raise it to 250-300.and its problem for good bigguner or sniper build.
Now i have sneak 200 and they cant see me near them (3-5 hex) ,but its better then on my sneak build which i made after wipe, after they wrote news about sneak skill in changelog.
i had 300 and from front i should be visible on 12 hexes.
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Sneak is slightly overpowered now. If you're not a noob - you will find and kill sneakers.
We got training on our base. 1 energo-sniper killed 3 sneakers.
So stop whining and learn how to play.
lol. Chuvy you got killed from our sneaker today in Redding. Let me see... Hmmm. There was 3 yours brave warriors against 1 our sneaker. Don't remember what was the "END" of this fight? =)
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i tend nto to agree often with hololsima but he is right
atm sneak is retarded , dont get me wrong got sneaker myself but its just retarded that you can run around with full armor and minigun and sneak up to enemy (in theory even 10 PE wont help you if the guy got enough sneak...)
add lack of LoS FoV insant killz ... i suggest you to find something else to play till its not fixed like myself.
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Okay.
If the people who are in charge of keeping the gaming process balanced can't come up with a decisive solution, looks like all of us have to help ourselves.
Soon we'll get used to it, minigun-wielding sneaker in CA -- not a bad "mascot" for this session :)
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Lexx you know what kind of characters we have in towns ?
Yes and what? Should I use my magick to fix it? I wrote that it's not possible right now. If we reactivate FOV, we will have monster lags again.
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Yes and what? Should I use my magick to fix it? I wrote that it's not possible right now. If we reactivate FOV, we will have monster lags again.
I guess we dont need FOV for this, just decrease sneak effectivness, now its like: 200 sneak for 3 hexes, make it 330 sneak for 3 hexes and racional continual decreasing (fe every 8 % sneak lower= 1 hex "lower"). is it so hard to change it? 200 sneak would work for 19,25 hexes, and that is acceptable I guess?
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Yes and what? Should I use my magick to fix it? I wrote that it's not possible right now. If we reactivate FOV, we will have monster lags again.
i would suggest applying global 75-100 penalty to sneak
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PvP is kinda dead right now.
And I confirm what hololasima said. From 1 hex you still can't see char with sneak.
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Sneak is slightly overpowered now. If you're not a noob - you will find and kill sneakers.
We got training on our base. 1 energo-sniper killed 3 sneakers.
So stop whining and learn how to play.
you make me laff
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Yes and what? Should I use my magick to fix it? I wrote that it's not possible right now. If we reactivate FOV, we will have monster lags again.
monster penalties for kind of worn armor and weapons as a temporary solution?
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PvP is kinda dead right now.
And I confirm what hololasima said. From 1 hex you still can't see char with sneak.
You can see every sneak char from 3 hexes, even with 1 PE. You can't go lower than 3 hexes with sneak.
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You can see every sneak char from 3 hexes, even with 1 PE. You can't go lower than 3 hexes with sneak.
you know this from where?? from wiki? manual? yes but there is wroten something about penalties for armor, items in inv and for penalties from which side you go , but these penalties dont work now ,so i think it can be possible that this minimum distance is turned off too.
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you know this from where?? from wiki? manual? yes but there is wroten something about penalties for armor, items in inv and for penalties from which side you go , but these penalties dont work now ,so i think it can be possible that this minimum distance is turned off too.
Look at this table:
http://www.fallout-3.com/wiki/Sneak
Sneaking penalties aren't disabled, the whole sneaking system is set back to Fallout 2.
You can really see every sneaking char from 3 hexes (2 hexes away from you). And yes, I've checked and tested it.
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ok then ,but i dont see diference between 1 and 3 hexes, it does not matter if they shoots at you with minigun from 1 or 3 hexes,you are dead anyway.
But is this table actual?? just wanna know because in this table arent decreases for armors, sides etc. so it looks like actual...
The best way how to make it not usable for idiots with minigun is return back penalties, sneaker should not wear armor, also there must be penalties from what side you go to object. If there will be penalties like was wrote in changelog:
-0 skill points from back
-25 from back-side
-50 from front-side
-75 from front.
just look to that table you post and -75 from skill like you go from front , they will see you from 12-13 hexes if you have sneak on 300 and they PE on 10 so people with low sneak cant use it (low is <250).
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ok then ,but i dont see diference between 1 and 3 hexes, it does not matter if they shoots at you with minigun from 1 or 3 hexes,you are dead anyway.
But is this table actual?? just wanna know because in this table arent decreases for armors, sides etc. so it looks like actual...
The best way how to make it not usable for idiots with minigun is return back penalties, sneaker should not wear armor, also there must be penalties from what side you go to object. If there will be penalties like was wrote in changelog:
-0 skill points from back
-25 from back-side
-50 from front-side
-75 from front.
just look to that table you post and -75 from skill like you go from front , they will see you from 12-13 hexes if you have sneak on 300 and they PE on 10 so people with low sneak cant use it (low is <250).
Magore, they cant activate it since FOV cause huge lags. forget about this system for nowadays.
btw I would not restrict armors for sneakers so much, imo granade throwers and melee/unarmed sneakers should be as well armoured as others. However weapon restriction is needed for sure.
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Yes and what? Should I use my magick to fix it? I wrote that it's not possible right now. If we reactivate FOV, we will have monster lags again.
For sure, we wanted FOV back ? No, we wanted Sneak skill off or nerfed until you will be have solution. It will be temporary.
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Just nerf sneak for the time it will take you to balance it out. Simple and makes PVP playable again.
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Magore, they cant activate it since FOV cause huge lags. forget about this system for nowadays.
btw I would not restrict armors for sneakers so much, imo granade throwers and melee/unarmed sneakers should be as well armoured as others. However weapon restriction is needed for sure.
Ok, then ,but can it be changed?change formula or turn on some other penalties to make it playable.
not turn on FOV just change it little.
But dont turn sneak off or dont make it unusable!
then will be my sneaker unusuable.I will have on him 300 sneak skill soon and i will be angry if 300 points will be lost...
but now im angry too because other sneakers can have just 150 skill and they cant be seen ,and they can use miniguns and other weapons..which i cant use...
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ok then ,but i dont see diference between 1 and 3 hexes, it does not matter if they shoots at you with minigun from 1 or 3 hexes,you are dead anyway.
It really does matter, from more than one hex only 1/3 bullets hit the target.
If you want to come back to fov based sneak penalties, I would suggest making also sneak bonuses for example:
-50 skill points from back
-0 from back-side
-50 from front-side
-100 from front.
In the future I'd love to see sneak penalties for being on empty areas, bonuses for sticking to the walls,
penalties for some heavy armous and maybe craftable camouflage armors which would possitively affect sneak skill.
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Spread talcum powder on ground... see footprints.
How to implement? "Use" item and it creates area where there is sneak penalty.
You would not actually see footprints-- just sneakers have penalty in powder zone.
Drop a bunch of that stuff near exit grids, in mines, etc.
It fades away in a few minutes.
Alternately, make this effect work with flares and put flares back in game.
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What about sneak skill points decrease of sneak with armors, like in fallout tactics...
ok you can come to 6 hex near someone with sneak but you are bluesuit.
leather armor -80
metal armor -160
combar armor -240
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Problem is that bluesuit who sneak at you up to 6 hexes still will burst you down in 1 turn. Or eyeshot or plasmanade.
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Problem is that bluesuit who sneak at you up to 6 hexes still will burst you down in 1 turn. Or eyeshot or plasmanade.
if someone has sneak on 300 , he must take skilled trait and a lot of INT so he cant have 2 bursts on bigguner and one burst from 6 hexes will not kill you , and plasmanade gives low dmg to people in good armors so he cant kill you too...
and i dont see problem with that they can burst you from 6 hexes , they raised sneak a lot and they will be weaker in other ways...
if they will make penalties for armors , these bigguners with sneak will be less usable.
6 hexes on 300 sneak can be good.
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Penalties for even having big gun / armor in inventory would be good.
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Agree with the weight penalties.
Concerning grenades, well, I bet PvP whinners will disagree, but I think it should cost 1 more Action Point, cause when you throw a grenade (I mean in real life), it doesn't explode immediatly, if you want to lower the delay, you have to wait before throwing it. Furthermore a gunshot is faster than a grenade throwing (except aiming shot, of course).
Let's start the complaints... :P
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Agreeing with Heckler, neither Fast Shot nor BRoF should work with grenades - and I think they both work. At the moment, grenaders win thanks to grenade-spam.
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Lol or allow to pick granade and throw it back or to move away before it explode? Similar to throwing the rocks.
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seen it more than once done to dear old bob, the guy at the NCR base with info pamphlets :-\
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Agree with the weight penalties.
Concerning grenades, well, I bet PvP whinners will disagree, but I think it should cost 1 more Action Point, cause when you throw a grenade (I mean in real life), it doesn't explode immediatly, if you want to lower the delay, you have to wait before throwing it. Furthermore a gunshot is faster than a grenade throwing (except aiming shot, of course).
Let's start the complaints... :P
so you want make grenades unusable for PVP, usable just for PKing in mines.
This is game not real life so dont think about how it works in RL, in real life you cant get shot to eye and then heal that eye with doctor skill too...
Now throwing is usable, you dont deal big dmg to enemies but you can stun them , so its good for team pvp, and sneak with that can be good and i think that grenader with sneak ,(if will be sneak reworked) will not be overpowered. it will be just next usable character for pvp .
Grenader without sneak will be shit,(he cant fight agaist bigguners because of diference between dmgs, and he cant fight agaist snipers because of diferences in shooting range.
And grenader without sneak and with throwing for 3AP (or4) will be double shit.
but this is topic about sneak , and problem isnt just in grenaders , problem is that they use miniguns and CAs in sneak.
Can someone just tell if it is possible or impossible to add penalties (weight,armor,weapon).And if is , is time for do it, because pvp is now unplayable.
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realistic or not. I still dislike possiblity to throw 5 granades in a row per turn, while sniper will make 1 aimed shot, and bigguner will shot 2 bursts from their miniguns... 5 granades... ugh i mean COME ON. alsoafter first 5 nades you are imidiently able to throw another one and another one, because regeneration of 2 ap takes a second when you have 10ap max.
Id rather see granades do more damage, than see granade bursters.
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also, if the guy has the 2x action boy that goes all the way up to 6 grenades in a row, or is it 8 plus the regen time there is?
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realistic or not. I still dislike possiblity to throw 5 granades in a row per turn, while sniper will make 1 aimed shot, and bigguner will shot 2 bursts from their miniguns... 5 granades... ugh i mean COME ON. alsoafter first 5 nades you are imidiently able to throw another one and another one, because regeneration of 2 ap takes a second when you have 10ap max.
Id rather see granades do more damage, than see granade bursters.
Ok its not possible to throw 5 grenades in turn but it makes them usable,and there are more things which arent possible in this game,i dont want to make this game more realistic i just wanna see balanced game.
yes this is inteligent idea.It will makes them usable but stop grenade spamming which is now only advantage for grenaders.
Maybe dmg little less then normal rockets to armored guys.
And gordulan, if you want good pvp grenader , you cant have 2 action boys...
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i know, but i'm throwing theory in the mix
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so you want make grenades unusable for PVP, usable just for PKing in mines.
This is game not real life so dont think about how it works in RL, in real life you cant get shot to eye and then heal that eye with doctor skill too...
Now throwing is usable, you dont deal big dmg to enemies but you can stun them , so its good for team pvp, and sneak with that can be good and i think that grenader with sneak ,(if will be sneak reworked) will not be overpowered. it will be just next usable character for pvp .
Grenader without sneak will be shit,(he cant fight agaist bigguners because of diference between dmgs, and he cant fight agaist snipers because of diferences in shooting range.
And grenader without sneak and with throwing for 3AP (or4) will be double shit.
Man, I don't want to make sneaky grenaders useless, one of my friends already uses this kind of build, but I think it should be more balanced, and more logical.
And you seem to be agree with this, no ?
More damages per grenade, but less grenades thrown in a row, it sounds good, yeah.
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REMOVE THE SNEAK NOW!
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REMOVE THE SNEAK NOW!
Restart has been noticed, lets see what it brings
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After half of a year testing, we are back (minigunner sneakers bursting from 3 hexes).
Why not reduce the visibility by weight? (if you travel with something heavy like minugun, it makes a noise, reflex of light, your agility is reduced....).
Why not use sneak only at night? (try to dispapear from my view in the midday sunshine on the flat road with minigun in your hand).
Sneak should be great opportunity for small guns class weapons like assault riffles, smgs, not another overpowered ability for overpowered biggunners.
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bla bla bla
it's simple, if FOV doesn't work, disable sneak
when/if you fix FOV and lag, enable sneak
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bla bla bla
it's simple, if FOV doesn't work, disable sneak
when/if you fix FOV and lag, enable sneak
Why disable it, when it cant be hard to add some penalties,(which was there before) and little reduce it how people said here before.
when you disable it , you will broke some normal sneak characters which just wanted to use sneak as was before disabling FOV.
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Remove sneal until you fix it ppppppplllllllllleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaasssssssseeeeeeeee
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lol, now we are doomed again :P
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Why disable it, when it cant be hard to add some penalties,(which was there before) and little reduce it how people said here before.
when you disable it , you will broke some normal sneak characters which just wanted to use sneak as was before disabling FOV.
and? where is the problem?
when they fix fov, lag, sneak.....
this characters will be ok again
now 95% of players cannot do s*it, cos of 1% char that *may* use sneak right way
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and? where is the problem?
when they fix fov, lag, sneak.....
this characters will be ok again
now 95% of players cannot do s*it, cos of 1% char that *may* use sneak right way
OK but when will be FOV turned on again? maybe never or after next wipe? maybe tomorow but nobody knows.
I just think that it is fucking easy to REWORK sneak now for time before they turn on FOV again(just by adding some penalties which was wroten here).and its senseless to turn it off and broke some normal builds.
If its hard or impossible to change this , just write it here.
And it can be good if admins will write what they want to do with it and how is it with FOV after they tried it before moment.
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You all make mi lough.
Now days making char from 1lvl to 21 take - one max two days. So whats the problem - make new char and play sneaker. Dont whant - so play your char.
and stop crying about something - DEVs now thats this and this is overpowered.
CANT WIN USING OLD CHARS - ADAPT - TO NEW SITUATION.
And this guy _Youkai_ - belive me PVP is not DEAD - mayby you are dead - heheh.
See you on the STREETS.
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You all make mi lough.
Now days making char from 1lvl to 21 take - one max two days. So whats the problem - make new char and play sneaker. Dont whant - so play your char.
and stop crying about something - DEVs now thats this and this is overpowered.
CANT WIN USING OLD CHARS - ADAPT - TO NEW SITUATION.
And this guy _Youkai_ - belive me PVP is not DEAD - mayby you are dead - heheh.
See you on the STREETS.
Lol yes it will be so funny if everybody will have sneaker for PVP , it will be rly cool finding game. I will rather play finding mines.
you are another guy calling normal discusion by "crying" , i know it is cool to tell someone that he is crying but with this stance is this forum for nothing....
and yes PVP isnt DEAD , pvp is just fucking BORING and STUPID now.
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You all make mi lough.
Now days making char from 1lvl to 21 take - one max two days. So whats the problem - make new char and play sneaker. Dont whant - so play your char.
and stop crying about something - DEVs now thats this and this is overpowered.
CANT WIN USING OLD CHARS - ADAPT - TO NEW SITUATION.
And this guy _Youkai_ - belive me PVP is not DEAD - mayby you are dead - heheh.
See you on the STREETS.
Really smart reply like "Learn how to play" ? Another "Rambo" here ?
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so sneak is becoming some kind of invisible ability ? ::)
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Yeah, now Wasteland is full of chinese Maoist ninjas...
Too bad they don't throw shurrikens instead of plasma grenades.
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Look, if we keep this sneaky situation, there gonna be really crazy and unplayable fights where u just meet other players on 3 hexes, miss them and never find them again. Nobody wants such an invisible war...
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It's just a temporarily solution and will be changed in the future.
I can understand that its a bit nasty at the moment, but no one will be helped with thousands of posts with the same content, like "omg nerf it, it's unplayable!!!" etc.
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It's just a temporarily solution and will be changed in the future.
I can understand that its a bit nasty at the moment, but no one will be helped with thousands of posts with the same content, like "omg nerf it, it's unplayable!!!" etc.
can u tell us what means aproximately "in future"? is it more or less than "soon"? :)
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I'd love to tell you when we'll see this, but I'm not involved in the development. ;)
I take the standard phrase and say "when it's done". :P
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The only problem here is your inability to reroll to sneak char. Updates change PvP greatly and if you can't reroll, you should just give up.
Saying PvP is dead is bullshit, there are lots of fights between parties partially composed of sneaking characters - I haven't seen a team which had all characters using sneak. But yeah, I have to admit that sneak is overpowered right now - I just hope they won't make it a useless skill again..
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Agreeing with Heckler, neither Fast Shot nor BRoF should work with grenades - and I think they both work. At the moment, grenaders win thanks to grenade-spam.
Grenades win? Lies. Let's elaborate on that:
- molotov - lol, unusable
- frag - knockdown, yeah, but the damage is laughable - unusable
- plasma - knockdown removed, inflicts 30-40 dmg on a BA wearing target; the range is 15 hexes, you need 5 or more to get a dude with 200+hp, which already puts you inside the realm of jet, which is a bit shitty to get; now, let's assume the opponent starts running when you throw the first 2 from 6 hex distance. What happens? He's out of range until he's dead and since you both run with the same exact speed you CAN'T KILL HIM, EVER. That's what happens with 2ap/throw. Imagine it's 3ap/throw or 4ap/throw. Oh, and if the target happens to be a BG user he can run up to you and cap your sorry ass with a burst while you light yourself up with splash damage.
tl, dr version; what you both suggest is to make an additional weapon skill completely useless.
Oh, and what Heckler said doesn't even make sense. Yeah, grenades have all these drawbacks irl. They also have 15-50m realistic kill radius and, unlike firearms, offer almost 100% instant incapacitation of the enemy. Basically, a well thrown grenade can wipe out an entire fireteam. I don't remember any 2238 grenades doing that.
As far as sneak goes - introducing a global -75% until FOV appears (everybody is "in front" of you all the time) would do the trick. But with the entire "I failed to adapt so let's axe this thing" crowd whining at the top of their lungs such a sensible solution probably isn't going to pass.
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The only problem here is your inability to reroll to sneak char. Updates change PvP greatly and if you can't reroll, you should just give up.
Saying PvP is dead is bullshit, there are lots of fights between parties partially composed of sneaking characters - I haven't seen a team which had all characters using sneak. But yeah, I have to admit that sneak is overpowered right now - I just hope they won't make it a useless skill again..
I asure you kilgore, that I ve got sneaker thrower, so thats not a problem... I just dont find fun in battles as before and yes, I am going to give up if this is not going to change in few days.
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Oh, and if the target happens to be a BG user he can run up to you and cap your sorry ass with a burst while you light yourself up with splash damage.
Yeah. So now, let's nerf big guns again :D
Josefista, I know your chars and I know that you are using sneak :) Also I agree that fights with more than 50% chars involved using sneak aren't so interesting, but I don't like "NERF NERF NERF" whining even more.. things have to be balanced, not nerfed. Right now sneak is overpowered due to FOV disabled.. when they enable it, the only good sneakers will be those with 300 skill and even for them it will take a lot of skill to use it in a powerful way
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Yeah. So now, let's nerf big guns again :D
Josefista, I know your chars and I know that you are using sneak :) Also I agree that fights with more than 50% chars involved using sneak aren't so interesting, but I don't like "NERF NERF NERF" whining even more.. things have to be balanced, not nerfed. Right now sneak is overpowered due to FOV disabled.. when they enable it, the only good sneakers will be those with 300 skill and even for them it will take a lot of skill to use it in a powerful way
I also dislike NERFing and I suggested eazy and fast solution for this problem (maybe its in that second thread in suggestion), but its seems to be not eazy and fast enough for devs or w/e :p
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Yeah, now Wasteland is full of chinese Maoist ninjas...
Too bad they don't throw shurrikens instead of plasma grenades.
just got killed in San Francisco by a bunch of those ninjas ;)
Funny how I see it : they got in town, disappear, then reappear and kill people at entrance. Not even the guards can do a thing :o
I must be playing some other game :o Like HEROES online :o
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Men, we 're just trying to find a way to balance things, not to nerf the gameplay or to make it more and more realistic.
I don't think grenades are supposed to be a "burst weapon", it should stay a support option like it was before the wipe.
And if you don't want to add penalties to sneak, what do you want to do to balance it ?
In my own opinion, sneak chars should be some kind of scouts, spies, not Predators.
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Men, we 're just trying to find a way to balance things, not to nerf the gameplay or to make it more and more realistic.
I don't think grenades are supposed to be a "burst weapon", it should stay a support option like it was before the wipe.
And if you don't want to add penalties to sneak, what do you want to do to balance it ?
In my own opinion, sneak chars should be some kind of scouts, spies, not Predators.
To balance sneak you balance sneak, you don't f**k an entire weapon group over, especially if it isn't all that powerful. You could do fine-tuning like that AFTER all the basic mechanics are in place and you're 100% fure they won't change. Besides, the "burst" (or the fact that you have to throw a lot of 'em to make it count) thing with grenades doesn't make them stronger, it makes them more resource consuming. You want to talk weapon balance, you should start talking damage output (ap/dmg ratio) instead of how it looks, the difference between 3 strong grenades and 5 weak grenades is that you can escape 5 grenades a bit easier if they don't knock you down. When you increase ap cost without increasing raw damage, you make the weapon less effective by a large %. If, for example, you make BRoF and FS ineffective with grenades you increase ap/attack from 2 to 4, therefore making that weapon 50% weaker, which would effectively remove it from the game as anything that doesn't deliver a more or less sure kil/incapacitationl with a full-ap attack isn't PvP-capable.
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i agree with boat, he has a very valid point :-\
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Im dont care what DEVs will change. I will adapt and kill crying pussis like you all the time. No mater if it will be minigun, plasma rifle, or overpowered rock.
I just take game as it is (as it DEVs make it) and use whats best to kill as many PK as i can.
Life simple kille or be killed.
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Im dont care what DEVs will change. I will adapt and kill crying pussis like you all the time. No mater if it will be minigun, plasma rifle, or overpowered rock.
I just take game as it is (as it DEVs make it) and use whats best to kill as many PK as i can.
Life simple kille or be killed.
ye, this man should be called BETATESTER!
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ye, this man should be called BETATESTER!
Or kid with too much time to make new 21lvl char again and again
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anything that doesn't deliver a more or less sure kil/incapacitationl with a full-ap attack isn't PvP-capable.
Well, I don't want to "punish" sneaky grenaders, but, seriously, do you find actual PvP interesting ? And I'm only talking about grenades. This "one burst/one shot, pawn, you're dead" thing is pretty boring, don't you think ?
That's why I think grenades should generate more damages, but in compensation grenaders 'd have to use more tactics/skills than just click 5 times in a row to kill their opponents.
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Well, I don't want to "punish" sneaky grenaders, but, seriously, do you find actual PvP interesting ? And I'm only talking about grenades. This "one burst/one shot, pawn, you're dead" thing is pretty boring, don't you think ?
That's why I think grenades should generate more damages, but in compensation grenaders 'd have to use more tactics/skills than just click 5 times in a row to kill their opponents.
It's all about positioning, if you run up and click 5 times in a row you're dead and the target might even survive if he's quick (I'm talking group scenarios, 1v1 was always about who pulls the trigger first anyway). And yeah, I find following people around, attacking from proper distance at a proper moment from an angle that makes me go keyhole on my target (ie. attacking the person I want to kill while his buddies don't have LOS on me) and, especially, withdrawing without getting killed quite interesting. I'd say it's a bit more demanding than playing sniper/bg last session (but, as Kilgore said, it gives you a bit too much of an advantage if you do it right - but it's because of how sneak works, not because of grenades).
Anyway, there's much more tactics and skills concerning the actual attack once you're in a proper position with those 5 grenade clicks than with sniper click target-click eyes routine or BG "click 3 times" because the target can get out of your range before you're done and when that happens you basically can't resolve the encounter in your favour and have to stalk again. It's more or less the same problem as with HtH. The only weapon that should be sort of slowed down (to have a dmg output more or less on par with plasma nades) would be dynacord, as with 2 or even 3 ap/throw it would be simply ridiculous.
All in all, grenades aren't overpowered even with the current sneak, they give the attacked party a chance. BG and SG don't because they can't be "escaped" as the attacks are so much more rapid and devastating and they don't have the "reach limit". You could balance it by introducing weight penalties or simply disabling sneakrunning with a 2handed weapon in active slot. It'd probably work with FOV penalties back. I just hope the devs deal with the sneak situation without axing the skill like prewipe and without messing with weapon values, as that would be the wrong way out.
Another solution would be to introduce "hearing" sneaking characters from 4x sighting distance or something like that - you see a grey figure without any indication of its weapon and armor and can't attack it, but you can take measure like avoiding maneuvres. Or make the distance something like 3x sighting and allow attacking with a humongous chance to hit penalty for first shot. Or make the minimum spot distance equal your character's PE - so it'd be 10 hexes instead for 3 for 10 PE. That last solution would probably be best since it wouldn't mess with anything too much but would make coordination so much harder it'd all boil down to player skill and coordination (remember sneakers are immensely weaker once "decloaked" than normal fighters).
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Yeah, you've got the point, Nice Boat, I agree.
Just one thing : for now, when a sneaky grenader is 5 hex next to you, most of the time you don't have enough time to get of his range to dodge the grenades rain.
"Hearing" and PE suggestions sound good too.
May they soon fix all this laggy/sneak thing, cause a lot of PvP players (the ones who don't want to use sneak perk especially) are all slowly giving up. And it's not good for business. :P
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FOV back, no lag
sneak char "¨deleteself password" ;D
don't use server space
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Or kid with too much time to make new 21lvl char again and again
LoL
^^ not everybody have time to up to lvl21 in 2 days... don't know why people still saying that.
If PvP continues like this, yeah I will make a new char with sneak, but not to go PvP, but to avoid this shit that it is right now.
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making heavi armor penalties would be a good start and i think that sneaking should be more usefull as an avoiding skill than some frank horrigan killing skill
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Why not make sneaking most effective when unarmed. It would give melee chars a way to get close.
But honestly that's for future. As you can see this is what happens when major part of player's effectivity is based on his build: big outrage. Same thing will happen with steal, or has been going on but not so loudly because nobody cares what robbery-victim carebears say right? Same thing has been going on with all weapon skill% but nobody cares because it's the same for everybody. But the similarity between all these is following:
Sneak 300 = you're invisible
Steal 300 = You always succeed
Weaponskill% 300 = You never miss
Last thing is that if you wan't to make sneak a must to have combat skill, think how many armorsmith-fighters or doctor-fighters will want to participate pvp? So far only thing that's been absolutely must for pvp has been high weaponskill and even then you're out-builded. If there's going to be another necessary combat skill balanced build players will never want to participate pvp.
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What's all this whine? We all know that there are many things to be done in FON, perks have to be reworked totally, weapons rebalanced, skills changed, just don't forget that you are testers and not children, come on people. :'(
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What's all this whine? We all know that there are many things to be done in FON, perks have to be reworked totally, weapons rebalanced, skills changed, just don't forget that you are testers and not children, come on people. :'(
In every beta tests are players who are there to find overpowered skill and abuse it for maximal increasing of e-penis. They dont want those overpowered skills to be balanced - they want to use them for "fun". Best skill is overpowered skill, want balance? How about shot in the face - thats logic of some betatesters...
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The game won't be the way any of you want it, it will be the way the DEVs want it, if for example Atom really loves shooting people with BG, why would he lower it's effectiveness?(the first example that comes to my mind, don't know if Atom even plays) The only sollution is to adjust, to create your own FON or to play another game, that's it, beat it.
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The game won't be the way any of you want it, it will be the way the DEVs want it
But devs might want the game be balanced without overpowered and underpowered features.
for example Atom really loves shooting people with BG, why would he lower it's effectiveness?
Because it can't be done just like that without breaking something else.
The only sollution is to adjust, to create your own FON or to play another game, that's it, beat it.
Yeah let's all just gtfo and make our own fonlines. That's for sure what the devs would want us to do ::)
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Yeah let's all just gtfo and make our own fonlines. That's for sure what the devs would want us to do ::)
Actually it is, it has been stated that if you don't like the game, instead of making whines just leave or make your own game.
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Motion Detectors should work against sneakers who are moving.
Bring them back.
please
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Motion Detectors should work against sneakers who are moving.
Bring them back.
please
Bring back sneak like it was before the "fix" add motion detectors and we are fine :)
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dont like this new fov, with 1pe im totaly blind now :>
previeous fov form obt3 was good, dont know why has been changed
becouse of sneak ? :o
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kinda f*cked up, i agree, can't see as far as i used to with tom, he's got 6 per, i guess there's absolutely no point in following through with my build...
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dont like this new fov, with 1pe im totaly blind now :>
PE 1 is always bad thing.
Btw. I never wanted Sneak skill useless. I only wanted quick temporary solution for this problem. So just keep this suggestions to make Sneak usefull (not overpowered) and we will be have Sneak as good scout/combat? skill. I hope
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PE 1 is always bad thing.
No, with 1 PE you can eat psychos and don't care about anything! Yes, I know it won't help you, but with 1 PE psycho don't have drawbacks.
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dont like this new fov, with 1pe im totaly blind now :>
previeous fov form obt3 was good, dont know why has been changed
becouse of sneak ? :o
I guess u ve got PE 1 on characters on which you dont need to see anyway- crafters. whats the problem?
EDIT: Yes thats the 2nd type of chars with 1 PE :)
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even 12pe is limited, snipers need to stick close to buisldings for shortening of the battlefield and for no suprises form behind
tu much realism, this is computer game :>
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it's pretty much prewipe FoV, exept shorter... I kinda hate it right now, since i built the charachter i have right now with the new, improved FoV that we had after the wipe, just before they removed it...
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I still havent noticed any radical change. If there is decreased range of view for everybody I think its fine because battles take smaller place and snipers dont need to scroll screen 10 sec to aim.
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it's pretty much prewipe FoV, exept shorter... I kinda hate it right now, since i built the charachter i have right now with the new, improved FoV that we had after the wipe, just before they removed it...
Thats pretty good reason for hating new FoV you got there.
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i dont like new fov for one reason. Would you really hear less if someone would be talking from your back? Now you miss many messages directed to you and need to shout a lot, sucks :<
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Well, right now if you are trying to shoot a guy at the distance of 40 or more hexes while he's running away to the top or the bottom of the screen, you have to manouvre a lot with your char and your enemy will still keep disappearing and appearing. This is a serious problem for snipers who got 10-12 PE, but are unable to shoot a guy unless he's moving from the right to the left or from the left to the right side. Bring back old FOV where you saw everything around you equally (of course without seeing through walls or other shit and also you couldnt see sneakers behind you), it was good enough.
also
Would you really hear less if someone would be talking from your back? Now you miss many messages directed to you and need to shout a lot, sucks :<
this is true
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i'd rather remove it altogether since i kinda liked it not being there, and now that we got used to not having fov it kinda breaks the game quite a bit, but that's just my opinion, not that it counts in the eyes of the devs....
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i'd rather remove it altogether since i kinda liked it not being there, and now that we got used to not having fov it kinda breaks the game quite a bit, but that's just my opinion, not that it counts in the eyes of the devs....
I not agree. I want FoV. With FoV I can be hidden behind walls, inside building etc ( I can hide my ittems in towns when being unnoticed etc) FoV is must have.
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and all you can think of is that huh, how about hiding dynamite in closed up places, where the guards can't see you, jeez, ever thought of that?
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and all you can think of is that huh, how about hiding dynamite in closed up places, where the guards can't see you, jeez, ever thought of that?
Minor problem. Can be dealt with various ways. Fov offers us vast options for pvp related tactics.
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and all you can think of is that huh, how about hiding dynamite in closed up places, where the guards can't see you, jeez, ever thought of that?
NO. Mine in Redding exemple - no FoV - I used elevator and PE10 player spoted me from behind corners and walls etc.
Now with FoV he dont see me just be scrolling the map - and this is awesome - thats why FoV is good thing.
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Well, right now if you are trying to shoot a guy at the distance of 40 or more hexes while he's running away to the top or the bottom of the screen, you have to manouvre a lot with your char and your enemy will still keep disappearing and appearing. This is a serious problem for snipers who got 10-12 PE, but are unable to shoot a guy unless he's moving from the right to the left or from the left to the right side. Bring back old FOV where you saw everything around you equally (of course without seeing through walls or other shit and also you couldnt see sneakers behind you), it was good enough.
also
this is true
agreed
this FOV sucks hard.
"Hit and Run" now is "Hit or Run"
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Oh no! Snipers have problems killing their enemy from 40hex, what a disaster! What about the chars who can't even see 40hex ::)?
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Oh no! Snipers have problems killing their enemy from 40hex, what a disaster! What about the chars who can't even see 40hex ::)?
I must agree, maybe its not best FOV ever, but its still better than without it. sneak is all right, pvp is all right, snipers shall not be overpowered atm.
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Oh no! Snipers have problems killing their enemy from 40hex, what a disaster! What about the chars who can't even see 40hex ::)?
Yawn. Snipers are supposed to be effective at the distance of 40-50 hexes, now you can dodge them easily by running in one of 2 directions. Josefista: I also agree that it's still better than without fov at all, just previous fov was better.
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Oh no! Snipers have problems killing their enemy from 40hex, what a disaster! What about the chars who can't even see 40hex ::)?
*
Say that to my Melee with 1 PER ;D
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yeahm, 1 perception means that if you don't see your enemy you can be shot down with no bad thing happening to your oponent
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Yawn. Snipers are supposed to be effective at the distance of 40-50 hexes, now you can dodge them easily by running in one of 2 directions.
Where they aren't effective?
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in realtime, all you gotta do is to move 5 hexes to the left, and they'll lose you out of their vision