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[Magor]

You can see every sneak char from 3 hexes, even with 1 PE. You can't go lower than 3 hexes with sneak.

you know this from where?? from wiki? manual? yes but there is wroten something about penalties for armor, items in inv and for penalties from which side you go , but these penalties dont work now ,so i think it can be possible that this minimum distance is turned off too.

[NTR]

you know this from where?? from wiki? manual? yes but there is wroten something about penalties for armor, items in inv and for penalties from which side you go , but these penalties dont work now ,so i think it can be possible that this minimum distance is turned off too.

Look at this table:
http://www.fallout-3.com/wiki/Sneak

Sneaking penalties aren't disabled, the whole sneaking system is set back to Fallout 2.

You can really see every sneaking char from 3 hexes (2 hexes away from you). And yes, I've checked and tested it.

[Magor]

ok then ,but i dont see diference between 1 and 3 hexes, it does not matter if they shoots at you with minigun from 1 or 3 hexes,you are dead anyway.

But is this table actual?? just wanna know because in this table arent decreases for armors, sides etc. so it looks like actual...

The best way how to make it not usable for idiots with minigun is return back penalties, sneaker should not wear armor, also there must be penalties from what side you go to object. If there will be penalties like was wrote in changelog:
-0 skill points from back
-25 from back-side
-50 from front-side
-75 from front.

just look to that table you post and -75 from skill like you go from front , they will see you from 12-13 hexes if you have sneak on 300 and they PE on 10 so people with low sneak cant use it (low is <250).

[Josefista]

ok then ,but i dont see diference between 1 and 3 hexes, it does not matter if they shoots at you with minigun from 1 or 3 hexes,you are dead anyway.

But is this table actual?? just wanna know because in this table arent decreases for armors, sides etc. so it looks like actual...

The best way how to make it not usable for idiots with minigun is return back penalties, sneaker should not wear armor, also there must be penalties from what side you go to object. If there will be penalties like was wrote in changelog:
-0 skill points from back
-25 from back-side
-50 from front-side
-75 from front.

just look to that table you post and -75 from skill like you go from front , they will see you from 12-13 hexes if you have sneak on 300 and they PE on 10 so people with low sneak cant use it (low is <250).

Magore, they cant activate it since FOV cause huge lags. forget about this system for nowadays.
btw I would not restrict armors for sneakers so much, imo granade throwers and melee/unarmed sneakers should be as well armoured as others. However weapon restriction is needed for sure.

[Hololasima]

Yes and what? Should I use my magick to fix it? I wrote that it's not possible right now. If we reactivate FOV, we will have monster lags again.

For sure, we wanted FOV back ? No, we wanted Sneak skill off or nerfed until you will be have solution. It will be temporary.

[Aniketos]

Just nerf sneak for the time it will take you to balance it out. Simple and makes PVP playable again.

[Magor]

Magore, they cant activate it since FOV cause huge lags. forget about this system for nowadays.
btw I would not restrict armors for sneakers so much, imo granade throwers and melee/unarmed sneakers should be as well armoured as others. However weapon restriction is needed for sure.

Ok, then ,but  can it be changed?change formula or turn on some other penalties to make it playable.
not turn on FOV just change it little.

But dont turn sneak off or dont make it unusable!
 then will be my sneaker unusuable.I will have on him 300 sneak skill soon and i will be angry if 300 points will be lost...
but now im angry too because other sneakers can have just 150 skill and they cant be seen ,and they can use miniguns and other weapons..which i cant use...

[NTR]

ok then ,but i dont see diference between 1 and 3 hexes, it does not matter if they shoots at you with minigun from 1 or 3 hexes,you are dead anyway.

It really does matter, from more than one hex only 1/3 bullets hit the target.

If you want to come back to fov based sneak penalties, I would suggest making also sneak bonuses for example:
-50 skill points from back
-0 from back-side
-50 from front-side
-100 from front.

In the future I'd love to see sneak penalties for being on empty areas, bonuses for sticking to the walls,
penalties for some heavy armous and maybe craftable camouflage armors which would possitively affect sneak skill.

[Swinglinered]

Spread talcum powder on ground... see footprints.

How to implement? "Use" item and it creates area where there is sneak penalty.

You would not actually see footprints-- just sneakers have penalty in powder zone.
Drop a bunch of that stuff near exit grids, in mines, etc.

It fades away in a few minutes.

Alternately, make this effect work with flares and put flares back in game.

[DarkRyder]

What about sneak skill points decrease of sneak with armors, like in fallout tactics...

ok you can come to 6 hex near someone with sneak but you are bluesuit.
leather armor -80
metal armor -160
combar armor -240

[Frosti]

Problem is that bluesuit who sneak at you up to 6 hexes still will burst you down in 1 turn. Or eyeshot or plasmanade.

[Magor]

Problem is that bluesuit who sneak at you up to 6 hexes still will burst you down in 1 turn. Or eyeshot or plasmanade.

if someone has sneak on 300 , he must take skilled trait and a lot of INT so he cant have 2 bursts on bigguner and one burst from 6 hexes will not kill you , and plasmanade gives low dmg to people in good armors so he cant kill you too...
and i dont see problem with that they can burst you from 6 hexes , they raised sneak a lot and they will be weaker in other ways...
if they will make penalties for armors , these bigguners with sneak will be less usable.
6 hexes on 300 sneak can be good.

[Frosti]

Penalties for even having big gun / armor in inventory would be good.

[Heckler Spray]

Agree with the weight penalties.

Concerning grenades, well, I bet PvP whinners will disagree, but I think it should cost 1 more Action Point, cause when you throw a grenade (I mean in real life), it doesn't explode immediatly, if you want to lower the delay, you have to wait before throwing it. Furthermore a gunshot is faster than a grenade throwing (except aiming shot, of course).

Let's start the complaints... 

[Izual]

Agreeing with Heckler, neither Fast Shot nor BRoF should work with grenades - and I think they both work. At the moment, grenaders win thanks to grenade-spam.