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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Tyler on March 24, 2010, 03:41:25 am
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I have read about not being able to use an ip adress to regulate alts because its easy to change them.I was wondering if you could somehow number the clients as they are downloaded from the updater,having each client set to allow only one or two accounts max before it says no more.I realize that anyone with more than one computer would have an edge but it cant be any worse than what we have now.I guess you could just delete the client and download a new one but maybe that could be worked around.I'm asking purely out of curiosity and dont even know if such a thing would be possible to do.Sorry for wasting yuor time if this is a stupid question.
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That still lets virtual machines pretend to be a different PC.
I guess the only 85% successful way of limiting alt exploits is having each character activated via paypal for $2 or something.
You'd have to create 10 new paypal accounts with false info and stuff just to get 10 alts, which should limit it nicely.
But it also causes a fuckton of work to the devs and half of the abus^H^H^H^Hplayers will go away because of various excuses.
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No level cap, no alts needed.... One character, one destinity, one background to rule them all ! :)
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No level cap, no alts needed.... One character, one destinity, one background to rule them all ! :)
And lots of 1'000 HP players, who can't kill each other.
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or we could halt the HP gain after lvl 24 and stop skillpoints from falling in after lvl 27 and the extra 2sp for educated go away at lvl 35, and no more perks after lvl 36, and lvl 40 for skilled people, the rest can be just for a small title above the name (starts at lvl 40 (champion), lvl 50 (master) lvl60 (sleepless))
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or we could halt the HP gain after lvl 24
I'll post a little suggestion, and it'll be offtop!
Mega suggestion which can be sent to Junk board:
Replace "Gambling" skill with "Body Building" skill.
Starting Body Building % is: ENx2+STx2;
Starting HP the same as now: 15+ST+ENx2;
HP per level: 0;
Max. character's HP = "Stating HP"+"Body Building %"/5;
Odd thing: than more character will have IN, than more he can have HP! wtf?
Max. character's HP possible:
Starting: 10 ST + 10 EN = 45 HP;
300%/5=60 HP;
45+60=105 HP.
*Each rank of "Lifegiver" perk will give one-time bonus +20% to your Body Building skill.
Suggestion #2:
Starting Body Building % is: 15%+ENx2+ST;
Starting HP: 0;
HP per level: 0;
Max. character's HP: "Body Building %"
Odd thing again: than more character will have IN, than more he can have HP! wtf?
Max. character's HP possible:
300.
Will make this game a bit realistic, but... unrealistic is when crazy maniac uses Rocketlauncher on human, not tank or something else, because in real life it's almost impossible to hit so small target with Rocketlauncher, and soldier gonna usually miss, also minigun (in real life on great distance, you will be hitted by 1-2 bullets of 60 from minigun, here almost all hit), so miniguners will just left click on player and they will die, eye-shots (in real life from 150 meters you can't see an eye without a scope, and it's almost impossible to hit an eye of walking target, even with a scope), greatly reduce to hit % to eyes from 10 hexes, to head from 20 hexes.
Solve the problem:
1) Make rocket explode by any obstacle on it's way, if a player standing near wall or crates or tree, then he'll be hitted by a rocket, and usually die (it's almost impossible to have max. 105 HP, because all your skill will suck). % to hit (usually 95%) will show rocket's direction, if you see less than 95%, for example 70%, it means exist 30% chance rocket will fly some hexes away from a target and/or hit ground before/after target.
2) Minigun bullet's spread over range not only in cone, also over all distance between attacking unit and attacked unit. Also make minigun, and all big weapon, like scoped, have penalty to hit at very low distance, except for flamer. After that changes big guns will become support weapon. Minigun vs alone target isn't good idea, but if there're atleast 2 or even more targets in the same direction from minigun-user, then they will suffer.
3) Aimed shot in eyes/head. Impossbile to shoot at eyes/head/groin tonight from 20 hexes, if attacker don't have special perks/items with night vision. If weapon don't have "Scoped Range" perk, impossbile to hit eyes from 30 hexes and head from 40 hexes. Greatly reduce eye and head shot % to hit, but not in %, just substract, to make low leveled characters be able do eye/head shot too. Because you can see "<Insert 21st level character name here> missed." message only in 5% chance every time. Also it'll make AC atleast useful, because "Kamikaze" trait just gives you +5 sequence for now, because nobody really cares about AC, because everyone will have 95% to hit anyway.
What it'll do:
Low graded weapon as 10mm Pistol, Deagle, etc. will be more useable.
Big Guns skill is better vs group of players, than vs lone target.
Rocketlauncher is tactical weapon, where user need to think, not just press left mouse button.
Don't know what with grenades.
Thanks, now you can send this to Junk board, it was just suggestion: "How to make this game more realistic, tactical, and kill level balance gap a bit."
Damn, I forgot topic's name...
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And lots of 1'000 HP players, who can't kill each other.
Not really, in good old times it wasn't really a problem... and at least everyone had only one alt, no ten(because you were able to make everything you need with one character).
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2Ubivalkin
Really nice.
It will make a big diffrnce. Cuz level 15 shooter in my opp must have at least 20% chance to win over two 21 level bandits.
Same old talk... yeah....
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i think you miss the main problem. Alternative characters doesnt do any damage to game, its good if you want to play as energy expert as armorer as other characters. But the real problem is when people use their characters for fast relogging or dual logging especially in pvp. So you need to think of something that could stop these 2 things, not creating of alts.
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i think you miss the main problem. Alternative characters doesnt do any damage to game, its good if you want to play as energy expert as armorer as other characters. But the real problem is when people use their characters for fast relogging or dual logging especially in pvp. So you need to think of something that could stop these 2 things, not creating of alts.
I may not agree with you, if turn off level cap, and change HP/level gain. Because instead of creating alts to get access to item crafting, you can play your main, and the only, character more and more. You'll say: "Oh noes! Jacks of all trades! They will become PvP and PvE and crafters and roleplayers!!!!111", but what's now? The same, but all they need for this, is copy FOnline folder, and then just relog with crafter of one thing, then crafter of second thing, then give it all to main character and that's all. So removing level cap and doing something with HP will solve this problem, because level uping after 21st level isn't so easy, especially if they nerf XP for crafting, because it's too high, as someone mentioned: "Why do we getting less XP for killing the same typr of creature each time, but we'll always get the same XP, even it's my 6764th sniper rifle?". You're getting less and less XP after 12th killed mob of the same type. So why don't we get less XP after Nth crafted the same item? So... I want to say: 50th level character must have almost the same HP as 15-21 level, but more skill points for preventing him from alting and forcing to stay at the same character.
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as i said alting is not a problem, cheaters are, so i dont see suggestions that would reduce alting useful.
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This isnt a suggestion so much as a question that came from my own curiosity.Im not one that feels like alts ruin the game in any way but i do feel like there should be a limit to it.I dont know if what I thought of is even possible anyway.
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Alts do damage the balance pretty much.
If everyone just had one single character, there won't be any powerbuilds for just one particular reason (pvp, crafting, "taxidriver" etc.), many players will have characters with average skills. And when you want to have an expert at any skill, deal with the consequences. We are playing an Massive Multiplayer game. And the only "multiplayer" aspect is for very much players to kill other players. They make their stuff with their alts, mine stuff with their alts etc.
There isn't really much interaction with each other. Remember "Martin Blues" in the NCR? He repaired all your stuff for free, he was an expert in repair. And it wasn't his alt, it was his main character. If everyone would be playing his character better and refuse to use alts, a lot of problems would be solved. But it is the greed and the will to get everything as soon as possible which leads many players in using alts and minebots etc.
Don't get me wrong, using an "alt" and not even interacting with your main char, just to test things out is ok imo. But mostly alts are created in order to support your main char, which is cheating, imo.
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Alts do damage the balance pretty much.
If everyone just had one single character, there won't be any powerbuilds for just one particular reason (pvp, crafting, "taxidriver" etc.), many players will have characters with average skills. And when you want to have an expert at any skill, deal with the consequences. We are playing an Massive Multiplayer game. And the only "multiplayer" aspect is for very much players to kill other players. They make their stuff with their alts, mine stuff with their alts etc.
There isn't really much interaction with each other. Remember "Martin Blues" in the NCR? He repaired all your stuff for free, he was an expert in repair. And it wasn't his alt, it was his main character. If everyone would be playing his character better and refuse to use alts, a lot of problems would be solved. But it is the greed and the will to get everything as soon as possible which leads many players in using alts and minebots etc.
Don't get me wrong, using an "alt" and not even interacting with your main char, just to test things out is ok imo. But mostly alts are created in order to support your main char, which is cheating, imo.
I totaly agree. In this way, with alts for everything, economy of the waste's is down and practicly non existing. I don't care for caps and stuff because i can have everything i want. Any armor, gun, and as much ammo as i want because i can do that by my own hands (in this case Alts). There is no point in barter, collecting and repairing stuff. And practicly there is no main character to focus on. Fallout 2238 is supposed to be an MMORPG. And practicly there is no RolePlaying factor. And this is i think the most important feature in the whole Fallout series.
PS. Sry for my English, i hope it will get better in time :)
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Alts do damage the balance pretty much.
Don't get me wrong, using an "alt" and not even interacting with your main char, just to test things out is ok imo. But mostly alts are created in order to support your main char, which is cheating, imo.
I'm not huge on alts or anything, but how is it cheating? People in real life specialize in various things. We borrow from these people's specialties and contribute our own to the work force.
In video games jacks of all trades are almost always looked down upon. Only way I see less crafting alts being made is if crafting isn't limited to 3 profession levels.
The real issue is that every item is easily obtainable by any player.(Provided they make the right alt) In other games there are raids and instances that are more difficult but you acquire better gear you couldn't otherwise obtain.
I'm not suggesting Fallout dungeons, but if there were certain minor locations where certain gear only dropped there, maybe people would want to trade or something. I mean why trade for something you can always just make it yourself?
And maybe new items need to be dropped from random encounter NPCs that could be added to preexisting item creation requirements. This would encourage combat and playing the game.
but I'm ranting aren't I?
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How is alting cheating? You guys made a game that forces dependence on other characters without having a simple way to get what you need from others when you need it.
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I totaly agree. In this way, with alts for everything, economy of the waste's is down and practicly non existing. I don't care for caps and stuff because i can have everything i want. Any armor, gun, and as much ammo as i want because i can do that by my own hands (in this case Alts). There is no point in barter, collecting and repairing stuff. And practicly there is no main character to focus on. Fallout 2238 is supposed to be an MMORPG. And practicly there is no RolePlaying factor. And this is i think the most important feature in the whole Fallout series.
PS. Sry for my English, i hope it will get better in time :)
Someone suggested once (can't remember exact words, so I won't use search for quote):
If a character has this item in craft list: He uses this item on 100%,
If a character can't craft item that he uses: He has penalties (???) % to hit? fast deteoration? don't know.
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How is alting cheating? You guys made a game that forces dependence on other characters without having a simple way to get what you need from others when you need it.
Because you create everything you want bye your own. Want a new Plasma Rifle? Sure, log in to your energy guns guy, create one, then log out and leave this fucker alone. If you are in a gang, we say with 8 members, everyone could be an expert at some skill. Now this gang decides to look into dungeon XY. Everyone has his role there, the lockpick guy takes care of the doors and helps with his mediocre pistol skills, the biggunner protects the "scientists" etc.
Now it's just one single pvp char (mostly) and thousands of alts, no real Multiplayer in it. And yes, for me it is cheating.
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Because you create everything you want bye your own. Want a new Plasma Rifle? Sure, log in to your energy guns guy, create one, then log out and leave this fucker alone. If you are in a gang, we say with 8 members, everyone could be an expert at some skill. Now this gang decides to look into dungeon XY. Everyone has his role there, the lockpick guy takes care of the doors and helps with his mediocre pistol skills, the biggunner protects the "scientists" etc.
Now it's just one single pvp char (mostly) and thousands of alts, no real Multiplayer in it. And yes, for me it is cheating.
That's all due to bad game design, players will always follow the path of least resistance.
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I don't think so. Most of the alt users use the fast reloging in order to engage the alt quickly and to relog to the main character.
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How is alting cheating? You guys made a game that forces dependence on other characters without having a simple way to get what you need from others when you need it.
This game is about role playing, not about having everything that the game has to offer with one character. If you are good in fixing things you should offer this to other players. This is a whole point in beeing part of a gang. Every member contribute their skill to mutual benefit. Having all benefits alone without (as dev's intended) help from others and fair trade is by my opinion cheating and abusing.
If a character has this item in craft list: He uses this item on 100%,
If a character can't craft item that he uses: He has penalties (???) % to hit? fast deteoration? don't know.
In this case you suggest that when i have for example BigGuns in 180% and i specjalize in making armors i can't use guns i was trained to use with max eficiency. And opposite when i am an armorcrafter i dont get bonuses from wearing an armor. Mighty Strange Idea!
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Alts sound like a decent way to increase this games replayability.
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I don't think so. Most of the alt users use the fast reloging in order to engage the alt quickly and to relog to the main character.
So cheaters are really the cheaters
And while a MMORPG may be about Role Playing it seldom works out that way no?
Most people when playing a game like to be able to kick ass when combat is an option.
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Alts sound like a decent way to increase this games replayability.
As you said yourself REPLAYABILITY. That means you must play a whole another character from scratch to play the game another time with diferent aproach. When you have multi alts you play practicly the whole game only once having "personal slaves" to do everything for you playing for real only with one character once with limitless resources. Where you see here decent replayabilityy? Life in postapocaliptic wasteland is harsh, brutal, and very tough, only smart using of character resources and combining it with others should guarantiee better chance getting to 21 level. This game isn't diablo or quake when character is an equivalent of an small army.
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As you said yourself REPLAYABILITY. That means you must play a whole another character from scratch to play the game another time with diferent aproach. When you have multi alts you play practicly the whole game only once having "personal slaves" to do everything for you playing for real only with one character once with limitless resources. Where you see here decent replayabilityy? Life in postapocaliptic wasteland is harsh, brutal, and very tough, only smart using of character resources and combining it with others should guarantiee better chance getting to 21 level. This game isn't diablo or quake when character is an equivalent of an small army.*
My eye shots disagree*
Anyway It seems to be players should be able to solo without being punished so severely for not wanting to pool resources with others.
If life is harsh and brutal then maybe we should be more adaptable?
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I don't think so. Most of the alt users use the fast reloging in order to engage the alt quickly and to relog to the main character.
You can think what you want but its a direct result of the game design. As someone who has alts for every possible combat char/prof I can tell you its not because I want to, its because I need to. For instance my 1 cha chars need to do quests so I need mentats, I can either hope to find some (almost never) or buy from a player and get overcharged plus hope someone is online selling them. More often than not no one is selling and I'd be forced to wait. A huge pain in the ass vs the 3 hours it takes to make a char with doc lvl 3 that just lives in vc and makes me drugs whenever I need.
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That means you must play a whole another character from scratch to play the game another time with diferent aproach
Yes, several depending on how many alts you create. It's not as if the minute you create another character you can make bazookas and combat armor to buff your combat/main character.
When you have multi alts you play practicly the whole game only once having "personal slaves" to do everything for you playing for real only with one character ones with limitless resources.
I don't see it that way, it's essentially playing several different characters, exploring everything the game has to offer for only a *slight* advantage.
Where you see here decent replayabilityy?
Depends on how many alts you have.
Life in postapocaliptic wasteland is harsh, brutal, and very tough, only smart using of character resources and combining it with others should guarantiee better chance getting to 21 level
I agree, so why make arbitrary rules like no-alts? This game isn't for kids.
This game isn't diablo or quake when character is an equivalent of an small army.
As have been mentioned earlier, even the random PA drops didn't do much to make characters unstoppable. I could have a 100 alt support team and would still die as often as joe-one21-blow.
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You can think what you want but its a direct result of the game design. As someone who has alts for every possible combat char/prof I can tell you its not because I want to, its because I need to. For instance my 1 cha chars need to do quests so I need mentats, I can either hope to find some (almost never) or buy from a player and get overcharged plus hope someone is online selling them. More often than not no one is selling and I'd be forced to wait. A huge pain in the ass vs the 3 hours it takes to make a char with doc lvl 3 that just lives in vc and makes me drugs whenever I need.
Aw, come on. What you want is jack of all trades characters. This is the only reason why you whine and complain all the time. What could encourage players to not use any alts? It's obvious: Jack of all trades characters. Because then you can do everything you need by yourself and play the game in singleplayer. No need to switch between many characters.
But it could be so simple... Just search a team in which every player has it's own role. Then you don't need any alts, because the players fullfill each other. And yes, I have done this already with other players and it is possible.
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Aw, come on. What you want is jack of all trades characters. This is the only reason why you whine and complain all the time. What could encourage players to not use any alts? It's obvious: Jack of all trades characters. Because then you can do everything you need by yourself and play the game in singleplayer. No need to switch between many characters.
But it could be so simple... Just search a team in which every player has it's own role. Then you don't need any alts, because the players fullfill each other. And yes, I have done this already with other players and it is possible.
But then I couldn't chat in NCR in between my solo ventures!!!
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You can think what you want but its a direct result of the game design. As someone who has alts for every possible combat char/prof I can tell you its not because I want to, its because I need to. For instance my 1 cha chars need to do quests so I need mentats, I can either hope to find some (almost never) or buy from a player and get overcharged plus hope someone is online selling them. More often than not no one is selling and I'd be forced to wait. A huge pain in the ass vs the 3 hours it takes to make a char with doc lvl 3 that just lives in vc and makes me drugs whenever I need.
It's YOUR problem when you make a character with 1 charisma. You don't have to make a character with 1 charisma to specialize on "Small Guns", "Repair" or "Doctor". You can create a powerbuild and live with the consequences (ever heard of "Choices and Consequences"?) or you can create an average character with a Small Gun", "Repair" or "xyz" specialisation.
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And yes, I have done this already with other players and it is possible.
I did that too and that is exactly why this game is vorth playing for :) Cooperation is needed for survival and interesting play. It's much more fair, fun and interesting that way. If You or some other dev can implement functions that wouldn't allow alt's that would be great :)
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A kind of reputation system where you earn respect from npcs and players would end the reign of alts. This reputation would be used on various things like more crafting blueprints, free stuff, temporary bonus perks and so on. People wouldn't simply have time to play with support alts because they would be so busy getting this reputation. It would be more rewarding to play one character long time than many characters short time.
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I did that too and that is exactly why this game is vorth playing for :) Cooperation is needed for survival and interesting play. It's much more fair, fun and interesting that way. If You or some other dev can implement functions that wouldn't allow alt's that would be great :)
no. Its game about roleplaying, and if i want to try myself as medic then as repairman then as someone other i create alts. It doesnt do any damage, it just makes this game more interesting to play. And as i said alts are not problem, fast relogging or dual logging with them is. And you are trying to fix "problem" which isnt problem at all.
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no. Its game about roleplaying, and if i want to try myself as medic then as repairman then as someone other i create alts. It doesnt do any damage, it just makes this game more interesting to play. And as i said alts are not problem, fast relogging or dual logging with them is. And you are trying to fix "problem" which isnt problem at all.
No one is complaining about your way of "alting", I also try to make me a doctor etc. just to try it out. There is no problem with this.
The real problem is, when people create alts to support their main chars. But if you have read the thread you've already knew that.
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A kind of reputation system where you earn respect from npcs and players would end the reign of alts. This reputation would be used on various things like more crafting blueprints, free stuff, temporary bonus perks and so on. People wouldn't simply have time to play with support alts because they would be so busy getting this reputation. It would be more rewarding to play one character long time than many characters short time.
hmm something in my trollish post WoW experience says no to rep grinding, not sure why..
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I don't see how even this is an issue, considering how slight of an advantage they get.
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fast relogging or dual logging
I don't know how GMs spot dual log. The same I.P.? So they can see what character has I.P. X, what I.P. Y, etc. So, why they can't spot fast relog?
If character with name X and with I.P.=Y leaves game, then in 0-9 minutes someone log in with I.P.=Y, and character's name isn't X = fast relog = ban.
If it's impossible, then how do GMs spot dual logging?
Edit:
Or
If character with name X and with I.P.=Y leaves game, then in 0-9 minutes someone log in with I.P.=Y, and character's name isn't X = fast relog = kick from the game (auto exit).
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hmm something in my trollish post WoW experience says no to rep grinding, not sure why..
Because wow reputation sucks. Higher level characters need something to reach for, it doesn't have to be exactly "reputation", just something that keeps them busy.
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Because wow reputation sucks. Higher level characters need something to reach for, it doesn't have to be exactly "reputation", just something that keeps them busy.
Just about any sort of status increasing things that grant privileges to discourage and subtract from the versatiltiy of alts?
I wouldn't mind rep for shooting thieves, blockers, and murderers.
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Or even in-town reputation only.
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No one is complaining about your way of "alting", I also try to make me a doctor etc. just to try it out. There is no problem with this.
The real problem is, when people create alts to support their main chars. But if you have read the thread you've already knew that.
most gangs had like 100 ba in their tents before wipe and many other heavy stuff, so i dont think that they needed something like character support or whatever :>
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most gangs had like 100 ba in their tents before wipe and many other heavy stuff, so i dont think that they needed something like character support or whatever :>
It's still undeniable fact that support alts are there and using them gives nothing but benefits.
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If it's impossible, then how do GMs spot dual logging?
I guess that first part is based on IP, second in teleporting players that are suspected from dual-logging to same same location and giving them orders about what they have to do simultaneously (first player go to the right and start saying alphabet from start, second player go to the left and alphabet from the end).
Just IP check is not enough. I know about (at least) one hundred people which have same IP address as me.
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I guess that first part is based on IP, second in teleporting players that are suspected from dual-logging to same same location and giving them orders about what they have to do simultaneously (first player go to the right and start saying alphabet from start, second player go to the left and alphabet from the end).
Just IP check is not enough. I know about (at least) one hundred people which have same IP address as me.
err yeah me too totally.... >>
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Just IP check is not enough. I know about (at least) one hundred people which have same IP address as me.
That's a problem...
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Im glad to see Ive inspired some thoughts on an issue thats been around for quite some time but I still dont have any info from the ones this post was directed towards.If a dev could maybe give a few brief words for my curiosity I would greatly appreciate it.
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no. Its game about roleplaying, and if i want to try myself as medic then as repairman then as someone other i create alts. It doesnt do any damage, it just makes this game more interesting to play. And as i said alts are not problem, fast relogging or dual logging with them is. And you are trying to fix "problem" which isnt problem at all.
No one is complaining about your way of "alting", I also try to make me a doctor etc. just to try it out. There is no problem with this.
The real problem is, when people create alts to support their main chars. But if you have read the thread you've already knew that.
As Surf Solar already said it's not about trying to play with diferent path and character but about using alts only as support for main character.
Detecting it by IP is impossible because most of people don't have unike public ip adress. Integreating one or two accounts with game client is not an option too because i can instal multiple clients and use them as i want. This is a very tough problem but maybe devs will shed some light when new changelog will apear.
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As Surf Solar already said it's not about trying to play with diferent path and character but about using alts only as support for main character.
Detecting it by IP is impossible because most of people don't have unike public ip adress. Integreating one or two accounts with game client is not an option too because i can instal multiple clients and use them as i want. This is a very tough problem but maybe devs will shed some light when new changelog will apear.
Let FOnline to create (delete old, if it exist already, but previous check it [see below]) a coded file in any windows' folders when you're logging in! It'll have contain integer string (date) and letters string (character's name) when you've logged in (LogIn_Hours/Minutes and CharactersName).
Then, when you're logging off, this file will also add another date when you've logged off and character's name (LogOff_Hours/Minutes and CharactersName).
Variables:
Let X be LogIn_Hours/Minutes;
Let Y be LogOff_Hours/Minutes;
Let Z be CharactersName.
Deffault Y = 0.
Then, if you're logging in:
Your character's name is Z=True - Delete this coded file, and create new. (I mean, log in, don't do anything abnormal);
Your character's name is Z=False - then do: If/Then/Else.
If: Y=0 (this means you are still ingame, because if logoff time is 0, you didn't logged off)
Then: Show message: "Hahaha! You're already have logged in character, damned dual logger, suck it!" (and prevent from logging in)
Else: If/Then/Else.
_____If: HERE I'M BROKEN because people can change thier time in windows clocks... but if your server will have it's own time... and it'll send SERVER's date to this file then next is possible:
New variable:
Let S be Current_Hours/Minutes
_____If: Real(S-Y) >= 10 minutes
_____Then: It's ok, let him log in.
_____Else: Show message: "Wait Integer(S-Y) more minutes, till you can log in." And, of couse, don't let him log in.
So, you can't use dual logs, and fast relogs, but it's theoretically... and also I don't know is this even possible.
P.S. I don't know why do I need X variable... just forget it... ;p
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you know its 2010 - i dont want to guess the numbers but alot of people have multiple machines that can run fallout 2 (stationary + laptop i bet a lot of people got this , not to mention old PCs that you didnt get rid off )
second thing is IP /internet - planty of people in LANs share IP , but on the other hand many have access to net via multiple sources resulting :
2 machines , 2 separate net sources (stationary + mobile) and you can roll your balls out and you cant catch such guy .... (you would need to track him in game for supporting one character with another - GL with that )
no .. i dont see any reason to consider alting cheating and punish players for having them when there would be a group of players able to have them ...
Aw, come on. What you want is jack of all trades characters. This is the only reason why you whine and complain all the time. What could encourage players to not use any alts? It's obvious: Jack of all trades characters. Because then you can do everything you need by yourself and play the game in singleplayer. No need to switch between many characters.
But it could be so simple... Just search a team in which every player has it's own role. Then you don't need any alts, because the players fullfill each other. And yes, I have done this already with other players and it is possible.
I dare to say with savage crafting cooldowns its not possbile for one player to support a team with ammo / drugs (armors / weapons - sure).
How to prevent anti alting w/o making jack of all trades chars ? allow respecs , focus on specials/ perks to determine what chars purpose (melee sniper big gunner etc) and let skill points be redistributed ....ofc there would be still a problem - weapon skill - one could just respec for max weapon skill when going for fight and have low / none combat skills when geathering /crafting...
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Nice colors, RavenousRat.
Answers are Virtual PC, Virtual Box, VMware. I'm pretty sure that DEVs are capable of handling technical stuff of anti-alt system. Unfortunatelly there will be always methods how to avoid it.
Let's say that duallog or avoiding timeouts between logging different characters are cheating techniques.
But trying to have all characters separated from each other is _hardcore_ roleplaying. I have no doubt that there are players that will enjoy this way of game, but it definitelly won't work for the rest of population.
Tip for true hardcore roleplayers: have you ever tried to separate also all the knowledge of particular persons? Positions of cities, names of known PKs (different namecolorizing), efects of weapons on particular cretures, etc.?
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Add "Tag!" perk back to the game. Alts will be gone.
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As if it would be so easy.
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Add "Tag!" perk back to the game. Alts will be gone.
Lol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI3mRJSu9DQ&NR=1).
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Did anyone even see my take on it? (second post)
Anything else is doomed.
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Did anyone even see my take on it? (second post)
Anything else is doomed.
Pay2Play?
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Pay2Play?
Will never happen. Bethesda would sue the asses of the devs off..
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There's a way to reduce the perceived need for alting dramatically.
First, make sure characters have decent ways to make caps (even solo and low level) regardless of how they're oriented (combat, crafting etc.)
Second, add in some sort of automated trading system.
This way, when people need something they can't make themselves, they can obtain it from the player market, rather than having an alt craft it.
I realize it's already theoretically possible to get stuff you need from other players, but these changes would turn that theoretical possibility into a viable alternative.
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First, make sure characters have decent ways to make caps (even solo and low level) regardless of how they're oriented (combat, crafting etc.)
It's not possible to make a "easy way" for solo players and a "harder way" for group-players, as the group players would simply use the solo-way in a group.
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Just wanted to point out that the new crafting system makes it impossible to play solo unless you made a crafter char as you can't get even the most basic weapons on your own. Buying them from vendors also requires you have cash, which you'd get from killing things so in the beginning isn't an option. Also crafting small guns requires science and repair at 80 for the lowest level weapons and as neither of those skills have to be high enough to tag this means grinding until lvl 8-9 to just be able to make a gun and shoot with it. So yeah, new crafting makes alts completely necessary to progress.
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I don't know what's your problem with it? It's fine now.
You earn money in the early levels by unpacking the boxes in hub, or shoveling brahmin crap. I made it to level 2/nearly 3 with a few quests just in 2 hours and I didn't kill any enemy yet (except of 2 rats). Also have 900 caps on my bank account. Gathered material from random encounters (which is great) and crafted myself a few basic items. Lucky me I took small guns, science and repair as tagged skills, so I won't have that much of a problem with crafting. Imo it's great.
What you want, as Lexx already said, is a Jack of All Trades Character. And I'm glad that it's not possible to make one.
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There's a difference between being a jack of all trades and being able to craft a basic weapon and be able to use it.
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As I said, you can easily gain a few levels on the beginning, also cash. From this cash you can buy a weapon. When reaching the proper requirements (the skillpoints you need to craft) then you're able to craft. Where's the problem?
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There's a difference between being a jack of all trades and being able to craft a basic weapon and be able to use it.
I've not tagged science and still don't have any problems in crafting. It's easy as before.
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As I said, you can easily gain a few levels on the beginning, also cash. From this cash you can buy a weapon. When reaching the proper requirements (the skillpoints you need to craft) then you're able to craft. Where's the problem?
unless you have 7-10 int you won't have enough skillpoints to craft by level 6, if you dont have points invested into barter or cha of 3 you can't buy weapons. Even if you can ammo is expensive and hard to come by. Unless your char can craft you can't really do anything unless you are hth.
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unless you have 7-10 int you won't have enough skillpoints to craft by level 6, if you dont have points invested into barter or cha of 3 you can't buy weapons. Even if you can ammo is expensive and hard to come by. Unless your char can craft you can't really do anything unless you are hth.
If you have low IN and 1 CH... then you're monster-killer-build, and you don't need to craft.
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If you play a INT < 3, CHA < 3 character, I don't know what you expect.
/edit: Too slow.
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If you have low IN and 1 CH... then you're monster-killer-build, and you don't need to craft.
One char has 6 int and 1 cha, the other has 6 int and 8 cha. The low cha build is for pvp and can't level because he has no guns or any means to aquire them other than through alts and the high cha build wont be able to craft and use a laser pistol until lvl 9.
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My stats are CH=3 IN=8, science isn't tagged, and I don't have any problems with crafting.
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My stats are CH=3 IN=8, science isn't tagged, and I don't have any problems with crafting.
Post your character sheet and i'll tell you why your comments are irrelevant.
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Wow, and I thought I am a "whiner" ::) :P
Roachor, you're making it sound as if it is impossible to play the game in the moment. How comes that there are already alot of people running around with good weaponry, armor etc? And it's been already stated, that a laser pistol isn't really a "low tier" weapon, it's an energy weapon after all and they're meant to be hard to craft/ to get. So level 9 is a good start for it eh? You can also go for a other weapon in the beginning, or use the unarmed skill.
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Post your character sheet and i'll tell you why your comments are irrelevant.
5 8 4 3 8 6 6
SG Repair Outdoor
Finesse Kamikaze
;p
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Wow, and I thought I am a "whiner" ::) :P
Roachor, you're making it sound as if it is impossible to play the game in the moment. How comes that there are already alot of people running around with good weaponry, armor etc? And it's been already stated, that a laser pistol isn't really a "low tier" weapon, it's an energy weapon after all and they're meant to be hard to craft/ to get. So level 9 is a good start for it eh? You can also go for a other weapon in the beginning, or use the unarmed skill.
I don't want to have to make another unarmed character to gather items for my other characters to use, this was my whole complaint the first time. Every character is so narrowly limited in what it can do that having alts becomes necessary. The people running around with good gear are the same people you saw questing in large groups, factions always have an advantage itemwise because they are their own mass of alts to support each other, single players get fucked over by the new system.
As for ravenous, you made a small gun crafter minus one tag, this thread wasn't about you.
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And I'm telling you that this is Massive Multiplayer game. If you choose to walk the walk as a loner, deal with the consequences. Of course it's easier in a group, that's the whole point about it. But it's also not impossible to survive for a lonely player, even without alts. Especially the first part of the game where you struggle for survival is the best part of the whole game for me.
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And I'm telling you that this is Massive Multiplayer game. If you choose to walk the walk as a loner, deal with the consequences. Of course it's easier in a group, that's the whole point about it. But it's also not impossible to survive for a lonely player, even without alts. Especially the first part of the game where you struggle for survival is the best part of the whole game for me.
You are totally missing the point, this is like getting people to cooperate by having them all missing limbs. It's bad game design.
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Yeah. Everything which doesn't suit in your way of thinking is "bad game design". ::)
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I don't see the problem in crafting, I crafted my 10mm gun at first or second level, and even if you don't have the high intelligence I don't think the requirements are that high, otherwise make a better char. :)
BTW it's offtopic :)
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Yeah. Everything which doesn't suit in your way of thinking is "bad game design". ::)
Most devs know fuck all about making good games, just look at all the crap that has come out in the last ten years. Then you have the fonline devs who are amateurs at this and despite knowing how to code don't know how to make a game. They keep making the same mistakes then making those mistakes worse, the game was already too based around crafting and nothing else. Now it's even more so and the only new content they added stops being useful after lvl 3. 300 xp quest rewards are a joke when you need 15k to get to lvl 6.
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There is always an option to simply not play the game anymore if you don't like it.
I also didnt play it the last few months, but now it's fresh, most of the changes I like etc. You have to remind that this is still a beta. And while I have to admit that the devs aren't professionals at making games, they're stilll trying it. It's not as easy as "wow, I have a idea, now I make this into the game and then it's cool!11".
Creating a game is much more than that.
But yes, this is offtopic.
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I am still playing my non-crafter character and I didn't died once yet. Also I can't craft, because my skills suck-- but I don't even need to craft, as I could find everything I needed on other ways.
Sure, I don't have an Avenger with Combat Armor... but time will come.
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Nice to see one of the devs finally got to this page but you still didnt answer my question.I know this thread has totaly chaged into something i never intended but im still curious.Thanks to any player that dropped his thought on it but Im looking for a dev answer.Thanks again
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Pay2Play?
No. More of a "Prove that you are 18+ by sending us $2 which is equal to the processing fees for paypal."
Fallout is rated at least 16+ everywhere, I believe. But now I see the flaw in my idea that someone from the staff would need to authorise every player..
Well, I think the current wipe is awesome and I honestly can't see a reason to use an alt for anything now.
And Roachor, 80 science and repair for guns? I can make 10mm or shotguns with 45 small guns, and that's basic items. Anything more is not basic items. Ammo is easily available for caps or cow shit.