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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Kinkin on September 23, 2012, 11:47:06 am
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Deer developpers, i'm really not usual of posting of this board and whinning, but i just can do nothing else...
I play 2238 since the beginning, when it was named "mod faction", and i always supported you. I know it's hard to spend time to this project after so many years, but the game is just right now unpleasant.
There are so many problems that i can't list all of them, people in the topic will help me :
- - Ac is a real problem, unbearable for HtH char
- heavy handed(especially with AC)
- - Dual log is not anymore a "crime", abuse too, during TC timers, take a look on sever status : two teams fighting, +60 players, just lol for 20 players fighting
- Fast relog is the worst of all : you can't fight a man, because if you kill him he is back few second ago with another char, and i don't even speak about gangs skirmishes : the winner will be the one with the more alts. A solo player have always been hard to play, but right now the only things he cans do are : NCR turn based troll or coop / AC HtH troll
How you could let the situation like this ? How could you make after year of developpement a such bad global balance ?
Previous sessions(and especially last one) were really perfect in many ways, some of your enhancement on the new one are cool, but so many mistakes on management.
Another thing, we are still waiting for years 3D model made by the community, it's really secondary problem, but what are waiting on this point ? Do they work for nothing ?
An old players really interested in fonline for a long time, but totally piss off by what is "the game" right now.
So many friends playing last sessions stopped during this one that i just feel like them : really bored.
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Known issues, just nobody lifts a finger to do something about it.
3D is not even a secondary problem or issue, it's just something for far future, don't let it disturb you. 3D is planned to be implemented when all models, basically when everything concerning it is going to be made, roughly "quoting" a developer, it's going to come all together or not at all.
The high spikes of population are actually due to FR, dual log has only a small part in it.
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,22221.msg184030.html#msg184030
Here you can read about my FR problem solution to go back how things were.
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J.Nuclear said AC will be fixed, HHanded will work with Power Fist only and FRs problem apears only in PvP.
FR gives a lot of utilieties in none combat things.
Solution: fix what must be fixed, implement 1 char/player mode and remove lvl cap, so each ape will be able to craft
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fixing ac is 1 line of code... and we are waiting already 2nd month for it..
i bet for 100% that even when all 3d models will be done they will be implementing them 2 years..
how can you be so lazy to not fix 1 line of code...
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3D is just i an example, if the fight are shitty there will be shitty in 3d too.
We all know about these "one line fix" for problem, but the meaning is just "wtf?".
Instead of enhancing/correcting old problems you worken on for years in the past sessions, you just created something new totally borring.
I know you spent much time of your life on it, but please stop experimentation... Maybe you're not really interested anymore on working on 2238, but the game totally lost his souls last 6 months... And this is not due to players, it's entirely devs game direction.
fo1+fo2 map for 50 players....
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remove lvl cap, so each ape will be able to craft
So... invincible apes?
Also, you go low int/cha 1... you pay the price.
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Also, you go low int/cha 1... you pay the price.
What price? If character isn't used on tasks that require charisma or intelligence, there is no price.
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I must admit that i had really great time playing this game last session, for me, its quite good it went bad cause there's no danger of getting sucked into Wasteland again.:)
Nothing last forever, so does 2238 server.
It was great job Devs, thanks you for giving me opportunity to participate in such great project as it was, for emotions and fun it brought to me. I really appreciate your work and time you spent on developing it.
Good luck in life everyone!
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It might not be a bad idea to have a two minute cooldown after you've accessed three accounts, something that would allow normal character switching and some fast relog but not unlimited.
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Just like it was before : 5 minutes, checked by ip. Remains proxy/vpn problems but this solves sandboxie usage.
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Just like it was before : 5 minutes, checked by ip. Remains proxy/vpn problems but this solves sandboxie usage.
If it's IP-tied cheating will be very easy and advantageous. It will only make non-cheating people annoyed because they have to deal with cheaters again and gms won't have the time to hunt down these cheaters.
Something like Steam-account tied might even work but even still cheating would be encouraged.
There is no easy fix on this because having access to multiple characters is very effective and players won't be willing to let artificial boundaries prevent from using them.
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What is 2238 right now ?
good game with few ridicolous features and no players
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2238 is unplayable - no players, everywhere trolls, thiefs - wtf is this game? I am really quitting it is totally wasted time playing this "game" the worst session ever, what have developers done everything is going wrong way!!!!
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the biggest problem of 2238 are a people who devloping this game. no offence guys but fonline should be made by gamers for gamers.
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Blueprints and annoying and boring, AC and heavy handed is terrible.
BoS initiates do not have BA :P, Repairing sucks, FR is good in some cases and bad in PvP
Server is lagging like crazy which is very annoying
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Not to mention game offline a lot often, not enough players, people using dual logging to kill town guards, OP NPCs sometimes, not enough/too much of fixes --> like stupid fixes(AC trolls, HtH) and good fixes(NOPE)...
Yeah, come get me devs...
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So sad.... And we aren't here just for whinning, we're attached to this game, if not weren't here.
Is there a pilot on this plane ? Please devs, let us support you.
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Better than long speech :
http://www.rookie.name/fonline/playerStats.php?r=year&s=1348466014&ts=0&ar=0&step=3
We need roll back to 2/3 sessions in the pasts.
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This whole thing kind of makes me sad. Well, more sad. The cherry on top at most.
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FOnline should be on Steam Greenlight.
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Some news on the devblog (http://fonline2238.blogspot.be/) about future direction of the game, what is WIP and availability of devs would be great, but we ask since years and except some frankly good articles, nothing promising for a long time now, and surely not the most necessary. Devs are normal people, they advanced in their life but it seems they didn't take the time to be sure their baby would still be followed. We got two new devs for a few months, but I must say I don't know much about their tasks, possibilities, or freedom of action.
And if someone could explain to me why devs dont perform an update when they fixed something, that would be welcome. I don't see the point of such method, except getting shitloads of flame and more challenge to fix bugs when they encounter any after some giant update once a year.
Oh, and another thing while I'm here : who is paying the host nowadays, huh ? You, the purest soul of the Wastes, who won Lotto and throwing your money regularly, confident for the future, discretely in a dark alley without receiving any consideration, identify yourself !
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There wouldn't be a problem if the game wasn't being centered around PvP for a year or so now, all those retarded rage-teens running around with gattlings in BA's showing how hardcore they are with their 1CHA strict PK'ing overpowered builds *sighs*
I played since 2009 and i spend every time i had roaming through forum, trying to catch up to game reading useful stuff, now Im roaming on forum only because I wish to see one day a topic called WIPE 2012/09/24 day after day date changes but all i can see is a Patch note since month which brought nothing useful, ofc. we have now super duper sweet CA Mk. II Radios yayyy how cool ima so happy i hope there will be a person which will use this feature some time soon, cause the only server trafic are Hawks or other super-duper overpowered group of pro zombie players just checking in are they still in control of all towns. Warning: This game is not about f**king tearing to shreds everything in front and around You & every smart ass that says otherwise is just very intolerant and its very sad and... I wish he burn in hell for eternity :(
Here just a few points i wish to make:
1. ONE character per player, there are ways preventing multi-accounts like every registration with some background story are sent to people placed to check 'em.
2. NO 01 STATS Having a character with either stat =1 has a serious negative influence making him seriously retarded
3. MORE Quests, group missions - So few of them, I don't believe there wouldn't be a whole bunch of players that's intrested in helping making 'em.
4. LESS Or no high-lvl weapons which ruin real hardcore post-apocaliptic game feeling which ofc. this game should have.
5. NO POWER BUILDS one character can't be only focusing on guns, I understand that if You like shooting at people You take SG, BG, EW + FA + DOC but there should be a variety of skills that certain person has, be a good fighter but with some crafting skill or a HtH fighter with science & repair knowledge etc.
You went far, far away from original game, don't forget what was fallout about, STORY before slaughtering everything.
Fonline:2238 - Coming soon to ESL ! Yayyyyyyy Soooo cute i shit rainbow ! :-* :-* :-* :-*
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AC and heavy handed is awesome, seriously though unless you are an npc or a single player that build isn't dangerous at all. Not to mention if you want ac and HH you can't have max ac and jinxed, but since you ladies never ACTUALLY TRY MAKING THE BUILD please continue your trail of tears. Pryszczu666 your ideas are terrible, 1 char per player in a game that demands an alt for every task? I feel bad for the poor bastard stuck with a bp hunter doing nothing for the rest of the season.
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There wouldn't be a problem if the game wasn't being centered around PvP for a year or so now, all those retarded rage-teens running around with gattlings in BA's showing how hardcore they are with their 1CHA strict PK'ing overpowered builds *sighs*
It's not players fault that our character creation encourages minmaxing.
Warning: This game is not about f**king tearing to shreds everything in front and around You & every smart ass that says otherwise is just very intolerant and its very sad and...
So basically you yourself don't tolerate a certain playstyle but everyone who disagrees with you are intolerant.
1. ONE character per player, there are ways preventing multi-accounts like every registration with some background story are sent to people placed to check 'em.
Anyone can cook up background stories. And what if someone is so poor at writing them that the ones checking the stories wouldn't believe it?
2. NO 01 STATS Having a character with either stat =1 has a serious negative influence making him seriously retarded
This encourages cheating even further because players would have to compensate for their character's losses by making alts. This is how it's currently going. Charisma 1 character can't trade so barter alt is made.
3. MORE Quests, group missions - So few of them, I don't believe there wouldn't be a whole bunch of players that's intrested in helping making 'em.
By all means but players have tendency to use multilog to pass these quests. All the current quests we have highly encourage multilog.
4. LESS Or no high-lvl weapons which ruin real hardcore post-apocaliptic game feeling which ofc. this game should have.
In fallout 2 we had encounters with equipment that aren't available even now. NCR caravans had G11, some raiders had laser rifles, san fran caravans had avengers. The world of fallout is violent and gun-packed, nothing to it.
5. NO POWER BUILDS one character can't be only focusing on guns, I understand that if You like shooting at people You take SG, BG, EW + FA + DOC but there should be a variety of skills that certain person has, be a good fighter but with some crafting skill or a HtH fighter with science & repair knowledge etc.
Then the game has to encourage us to make characters like this. Having artificial boundaries to prevent alt-making is not an encouragement but an invitation to cheat.
STORY before slaughtering everything.
It was?
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AC and heavy handed is awesome, seriously though unless you are an npc or a single player that build isn't dangerous at all. Not to mention if you want ac and HH you can't have max ac and jinxed, but since you ladies never ACTUALLY TRY MAKING THE BUILD please continue your trail of tears. Pryszczu666 your ideas are terrible, 1 char per player in a game that demands an alt for every task? I feel bad for the poor bastard stuck with a bp hunter doing nothing for the rest of the season.
Why does the game demand an alt for every task ? You can create a character that is able to do quest, have decent outdoorsman, can craft and stand a decent fight, this is what Im talking about everyone being everything, one man and shitload of alts army makes game easy, and what is a game without decent level of difficulty ?
Can't You agree to be a one cog in whole machinery that runs game ? You provide, he refines and they produce is what this game need, a dependencity on other to provide their skills & vice-versa You providing specialization to them, Roachor.
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After the taste we got of Fast Relog and Dual Log, i am afraid the game will become unplayable if we remove it.
It's like removing Hinkley, TC town, Combat skills, Faction bases or all the quest. What would be the point ? Make playerbase join another server ?
I also remind there was already a vote about it.
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Sure you can, but he'll suck at everything. Questing is barely a feature, pvp without a pvp build means you will die every time with no chance to even hurt your enemies. Your ideas aren't feasible. Hell I need an alt just to get gear in hinkley/check for other players for my pvp builds.
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Why does the game demand an alt for every task ? You can create a character that is able to do quest, have decent outdoorsman, can craft and stand a decent fight, this is what Im talking about everyone being everything, one man and shitload of alts army makes game easy, and what is a game without decent level of difficulty ?
It's about using the best methods. Making a hybrid character is less profitable and effective than making a specialized alt. Barter or repair alt will never see battle and combat alt will never repair. Thus there's not tradeoff. You can't demand players to play against how the mechanics encourage them to.
Can't You agree to be a one cog in whole machinery that runs game ? You provide, he refines and they produce is what this game need, a dependencity on other to provide their skills & vice-versa You providing specialization to them.
People are unreliable. Alts are much handier. They are available when you want, they work as much as you want and do exactly like you tell them to. Unless devs somehow fix other players so that they can be made to work like alts, there will be no chance in alt question.
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It's not players fault that our character creation encourages minmaxing.
That is true...
So basically you yourself don't tolerate a certain playstyle but everyone who disagrees with you are intolerant.
I do tolerate, but there should be certain boundries, don't You think ?
Anyone can cook up background stories. And what if someone is so poor at writing them that the ones checking the stories wouldn't believe it?
Then let him has these few characters, in time someone will find out about it and he will loose every last one of them...
If You can't write story then You just say so something could be worked out, best would be tying game to forum account.
This encourages cheating even further because players would have to compensate for their character's losses by making alts. This is how it's currently going. Charisma 1 character can't trade so barter alt is made.
Why compensating in first place when You're told alts are breaking game rules and why making characters with 01 stats when You can make decent medium builds, not maxed out
By all means but players have tendency to use multilog to pass these quests. All the current quests we have highly encourage multilog.
Because they can and because they're greedy never feeling filled enough.
In fallout 2 we had encounters with equipment that aren't available even now. NCR caravans had G11, some raiders had laser rifles, san fran caravans had avengers. The world of fallout is violent and gun-packed, nothing to it.
We can always say that the game is set in times that the guns were not created yet or just not use 'em, lastly there always is a nerf tool ;)
Then the game has to encourage us to make characters like this. Having artificial boundaries to prevent alt-making is not an encouragement but an invitation to cheat.
You have to ask Yourself an important question: What would Jesus do ? Would he play on proxy ? Or PK ? Troll maybe ? I personally believe he would do a role-play...
LOL be a man, there is always an easy-p*ssy way, cheater way.
It was?
Yes, it was but Im not sure if You played it fully or You just did a speed run of main story running first to navaro for APA then, just shooting through enemies in front of You
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It's about using the best methods. Making a hybrid character is less profitable and effective than making a specialized alt. Barter or repair alt will never see battle and combat alt will never repair. Thus there's not tradeoff. You can't demand players to play against how the mechanics encourage them to.
Look at this from other angle...
Hybrid is worst then sepecialized character but... You can't make specialized one ! that's why You have to live with hybrid and if You have to relay on trade with others to let's say get a gun then u give away armor and everyone is happy and gets what he wants, other players will have to live by the same rules u do, don't you think ? And thats why you won't get pwnd'ed in combat because everyone will be weaker , ofc. some that lets say are more combat oriented will have an advantage but still not a crushing one.
People are unreliable. Alts are much handier. They are available when you want, they work as much as you want and do exactly like you tell them to. Unless devs somehow fix other players so that they can be made to work like alts, there will be no chance in alt question.
So people don't trade ? They will just hoard shitload of one kind items runing around like mindless baboons biting each other throats cause one will not sell 1 of bazilion of his sniper rifles he crafted to the other baboon who won't give the 2nd baboon an metal armor his cleaver red ass made etc. ?
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Why compensating in first place when You're told alts are breaking game rules and why making characters with 01 stats when You can make decent medium builds, not maxed out
You answered to this in the quote below:
Because they can and because they're greedy never feeling filled enough.
We can always say that the game is set in times that the guns were not created yet or just not use 'em, lastly there always is a nerf tool ;)
In the end it doesn't matter what guns we use as long as they are balanced and fun.
You have to ask Yourself an important question: What would Jesus do ? Would he play on proxy ? Or PK ? Troll maybe ? I personally believe he would do a role-play...
I think Jesus would troll.
LOL be a man, there is always an easy-p*ssy way, cheater way.Yes, it was but Im not sure if You played it fully or You just did a speed run of main story running first to navaro for APA then, just shooting through enemies in front of You
Are you saying there are correct and wrong ways to play a game I bought for my personal use?
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You're far away from the goal of the thread, gentlemen. I don't think people are here to read another quote war. Please, if someone could remove these last messages... We're here to try to contact devs publicly. There is no way it can work if every time we try, someone has to come to express his non sense and make it all degenerate into bullshit. Thx Avv to try once again (and again and again and again) to resonate a fool.
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We got two new devs for a few months, but I must say I don't know much about their tasks, possibilities, or freedom of action.
yep i was wondering the same. what you guys are working on 2238? you have any power to change something?
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Ask no further, the answer is no, they don't have much power.
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This server runs by itself, a higher artificial inteligence and all moderators, developers and admins are just few fake accounts controled by one master...
Now tell me what kind of a sorcery is this ?!
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I hear good things are being done in the poo department. Also a hush hush stilt project and perhaps water skiing might be in the works, lets keep our fingers crossed!
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I hear good things are being done in the poo department. Also a hush hush stilt project and perhaps water skiing might be in the works, lets keep our fingers crossed!
finally! i've been waiting for these features for ages now!
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Implementing features that are so stupid they haven't even been suggested 8)
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This server runs by itself, a higher artificial inteligence and all moderators, developers and admins are just few fake accounts controled by one master...
Now tell me what kind of a sorcery is this ?!
Damn you Skynet.
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This encourages cheating even further because players would have to compensate for their character's losses by making alts. This is how it's currently going. Charisma 1 character can't trade so barter alt is made.
There are Cha 1 traders.
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There are Cha 1 traders.
Fascinating remark. However by trading I mean being able to act as a trader in fonline. This means he needs high cw, able to speak to all npc and has 300 barter. With charisma 1 you can't speak to all npc and eating mentats all day isn't profitable in the long term.
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Why 300 barter?
That would be some kind of specialty trader.
It seems that fully optimized characters are considered mandatory by some players. This is not a game requirement.
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Why 300 barter?
That would be some kind of specialty trader.
It seems that fully optimized characters are considered mandatory by some players.
300 barter gives more profit than 100.
This is not a game requirement.
What's a game requirement anyway? All what matters is what's the best way to do things.
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I believe that creating only one playable race: a Brahmin, it most likely would fix all the game problems, because there wouldn't be anyone around doing TC, everyone would just randomly wander, shiting around like crazy... Moooooo!
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Blueprints and annoying and boring, AC and heavy handed is terrible.
BoS initiates do not have BA :P, Repairing sucks, FR is good in some cases and bad in PvP
Server is lagging like crazy which is very annoying
this happens when devs dont listen to experienced players, all they do is doing what carebears want, check all threads, read what was said about ac cap removal. What have they done after all ? Removed ac cap .... Read what was said about blueprints, hh, and most of their great changes, this happens when some noobs do game updates, they fuck it up this is the reality, at the end of the day they dont even have to work for the first gun or first 100 ammo, all they do is getting it for free lol out of the air
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Here to support my old folks ;)
Despite I didn't played a looong time ago (juste some hours spoiled in "trying to have fun by solo-playing" periodically...), I continue to follow game changes in a general way, and try "features" when I can. And this is pointless to talk about all the mechanics which don't work today, this thread is so larger than these details...
The fact is the game used to be fun, used to attract a lot of players, used to be interesting, and now it doesn't at all. So what happened between these days ? We community did just became too demanding, are we all now trolls who can't do anything but complain ? I don't think so...
The more devs try to evolve game, the less it's cool, that is the point. I know 50% of the fault is on some people always whining as soon as they can't powerdestroy all the wasteland in 5 minutes, but still, why listening to the elite ? I played since the very opening of OBT3, hour one, and even if from this moment to my first very stop I only played in a big team (on TLA or on 2238) and always had fun, I know it will be boring as hell today. Even solo playing was fun back in the days, because you could interact with people, first because server was populated, and second because there wasn't this freakin' paranoïa that pushes people to kill every bluesuit that came by sayin' "Hello!".
The only thing I feel now, is the huge amount of time I spoiled investing myself by playing and by reporting problems, by participating on our french wiki, or whatever...
It's not my opinion, it's an observation from the inside and the outside.
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The fact is the game used to be fun, used to attract a lot of players, used to be interesting, and now it doesn't at all. So what happened between these days ? We community did just became too demanding, are we all now trolls who can't do anything but complain ? I don't think so...
What happened was that players learned to play. They understood to stay out of unsafe places without a good reason and thus those places became empty. One reason is also highly competitive pvp where mercy isn't given an inch. A beginner team is put against the best teams right away and they can expect to be crushed many many times.
The more devs try to evolve game, the less it's cool, that is the point. I know 50% of the fault is on some people always whining as soon as they can't powerdestroy all the wasteland in 5 minutes, but still, why listening to the elite ?
Who are these elite anyway?
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Here to support my old folks ;)
Despite I didn't played a looong time ago (juste some hours spoiled in "trying to have fun by solo-playing" periodically...), I continue to follow game changes in a general way, and try "features" when I can. And this is pointless to talk about all the mechanics which don't work today, this thread is so larger than these details...
The fact is the game used to be fun, used to attract a lot of players, used to be interesting, and now it doesn't at all. So what happened between these days ? We community did just became too demanding, are we all now trolls who can't do anything but complain ? I don't think so...
The more devs try to evolve game, the less it's cool, that is the point. I know 50% of the fault is on some people always whining as soon as they can't powerdestroy all the wasteland in 5 minutes, but still, why listening to the elite ? I played since the very opening of OBT3, hour one, and even if from this moment to my first very stop I only played in a big team (on TLA or on 2238) and always had fun, I know it will be boring as hell today. Even solo playing was fun back in the days, because you could interact with people, first because server was populated, and second because there wasn't this freakin' paranoïa that pushes people to kill every bluesuit that came by sayin' "Hello!".
The only thing I feel now, is the huge amount of time I spoiled investing myself by playing and by reporting problems, by participating on our french wiki, or whatever...
It's not my opinion, it's an observation from the inside and the outside.
No offense but if you took a different decision 2 years ago and join our TTTLA adventure instead of staying with the “Cajuns” you would probably still play today.
Btw you are on the short list who still can take the good decision and join us like Shangalar did and you will see the game from another point of view, trust me.
Your friend,
LeMark
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What happened was that players learned to play. They understood to stay out of unsafe places without a good reason and thus those places became empty. One reason is also highly competitive pvp where mercy isn't given an inch. A beginner team is put against the best teams right away and they can expect to be crushed many many times.
Who are these elite anyway?
I F5'ed the page while answering -_-" Try to sum up :
I understand your point but don't agree 100% to it, because it's exactly the problem of the emptiness on the server today and the lack of fun. It's not balanced at all regarding way of playing this game ; there's no good or bad way of playing, and people shouldn't HAVE TO be in a big team to enjoy the game, and shouldn't HAVE TO make perfect builds and alts. There's no middle, either you're getting destroyed at every step outside your tent because you are alone / in a small team, and are bored by just stacking stuff from craft, either you are in a dominant team and do nothing but wait 'till another big team shows up, and this brings boringness too. Majority of players should be in a category between those.
Well, this is the reasonable way to look at what the game should be, but we all know, me the first, that it's absolutely not its reality. Can't be without a really deep thinking about the whole mechanics, because all I see when we are told "hey look we add cool stuffs and features on the game and fix problems !", is that the game become less attractive. Some monthes back we reached a cool period, but now it's over (again...).
And you got me on the points of elites, I shouldn't have say that ^^" Because it's precisly because of (thanks to!) them, big teams, old players, who see the changes and can report everything really quickly because they have the means (number is clearly the first reason). So forget about that point :p
No offense but if you took a different decision 2 years ago and join our TTTLA adventure instead of staying with the “Cajuns” you would probably still play today.
Btw you are on the short list who still can take the good decision and join us like Shangalar did and you will see the game from another point of view, trust me.
Your friend,
LeMark
Haha no offense taken :D The fact is I really didn't wanted to be part of all the problems I saw in this time, and by experience I know the more we are the more problems come... I didn't think further, even if I noticed perfectly all the efforts you and the other TTT were making to build something once and for all. And still, I didn't played a lot after the big split, first having to choose a "side" was really pissing, and I missed power and domination a lot ;D
Well, I didn't totally quit on the idea of really playing again, see my old teammates... I'm sure I can enjoy the game again, the problem, which I talked about upper, is that playing with you guys is the only way for it. Well it's not a problem to play with you, no no no, it's a problem that everybody should have this situation to fully enjoy the game (and here I join Kinkin on first post, and continue responding to avv).
And LeMark, do you really think I could ever forget about Caribous ? Hahahaha xD
So, I'll see in a few how much I want to play again, put myself on update about important game mechanics I could not notice, and I will respond to your invitation (is that one ^^ ?) as soon as I'm decided ;)
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This server is extremly unfriendly to beginners. There are also various ridiculous game mechanic changes. Too bad, I thought it would be amazing. Turns out it's just a bunch of guys running around with Big Guns killing everyone and everything.
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To all :
This server is extremly unfriendly to beginners. There are also various ridiculous game mechanic changes. Too bad, I thought it would be amazing. Turns out it's just a bunch of guys running around with Big Guns killing everyone and everything.
Can't be more specific. And it's faaaaar from the first player who say that. See what was my point avv ? No middle, just in one side beginners who can't play because they don't have time/will to waste in the game for nothing and who are told by others "learn to play wasteland is harsh", and on the other side those "others" who have all the stuff/money/number of players and who are complaining about beginners' complains.
Why devs haven't think on that since ever ? It's not about making everybody happy at all, just because this "everybody" is the population of the game who is supposed to be a minority in a normal game ! And the fact is, there is no players today who aren't in these two "supposed to be minorities".
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It wouldn't be so bad if 1 out of the 30 players I've encountered actually spoke to me or was friendly. Now I just have to run every time I see someone. That's just stupid. It's full of hardcore veteran groups or clicks who don't give a shit about anyone else; You're just a noob to them.
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It wouldn't be so bad if 1 out of the 30 players I've encountered actually spoke to me or was friendly. Now I just have to run every time I see someone. That's just stupid. It's full of hardcore veteran groups or clicks who don't give a shit about anyone else; You're just a noob to them.
I treat bluesuits as people and I've seen you today in modoc.
You can't enter an unguarded town and expect a nice welcome, especially in the middle of town control wich is a war zone.
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In a post apocalypse world don't you thing people who are alone will not be in danger vs people who are in gang? And this server is supposed to be something like FOnline Gang war or something so it is what it is. Kinkin bring some real gameplay problem, you just not see the game how is supposed to be see. You enjoy the game when you was in a real faction, you decide to go with some not organise kid (sorry Izual) and from there as I know you never really play again. But you still come to see what happens on forum time to time, for me your problem with this game is not the game, but what you did with it.
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Remind's me of Dead Frontier's blog post. Where the only darn Developer rarely updates anything and when it is he is usually just releasing some crappy premium-only weapon that is "ON SALE FOR A LIMITED TIME" and sometimes says "HAPPY HALLOWEEN" and it got soooooo bad he actually just fucking closed the comment section of his blog. Only difference is atleast you peoples are not screaming "GAY" and "FAGGOT NOOB" at the dev's... yet! I personally like this game, and the AC cap has been re-instated so thats 1 thing right?
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Remind's me of Dead Frontier's blog post. Where the only darn Developer rarely updates anything and when it is he is usually just releasing some crappy premium-only weapon that is "ON SALE FOR A LIMITED TIME" and sometimes says "HAPPY HALLOWEEN" and it got soooooo bad he actually just fucking closed the comment section of his blog. Only difference is atleast you peoples are not screaming "GAY" and "FAGGOT NOOB" at the dev's... yet! I personally like this game, and the AC cap has been re-instated so thats 1 thing right?
I played that game since the beginning.
AdminPwn was a cool guy before the massive wave of standard retards came. /off
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I played that game since the beginning.
AdminPwn was a cool guy before the massive wave of standard retards came. /off
Ya he used to update regulary, then weekly, monthly and so on... alot of it is due to the endless demands and hate from the community sadly... game had alot of potential...
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In a post apocalypse world don't you thing people who are alone will not be in danger vs people who are in gang? And this server is supposed to be something like FOnline Gang war or something so it is what it is. Kinkin bring some real gameplay problem, you just not see the game how is supposed to be see. You enjoy the game when you was in a real faction, you decide to go with some not organise kid (sorry Izual) and from there as I know you never really play again. But you still come to see what happens on forum time to time, for me your problem with this game is not the game, but what you did with it.
Hmm I see the game as it's supposed to be : a game. This is reality that the game has no interest if you're not part of the biggest teams. I don't personnally care, because in FOnline I enjoyed only playing with you all and never had fun by playing by myself, but I speak for the kind of players I just quoted few messages up. Today the server don't have enough players to make something good, devs should have be more attentive when it was the time. I think now it's too late, but we'll see.
Haha I can't really point out "real gameplay problems", as I don't play anymore, I juste observe from outside and see well what people are saying about it...
I said I do not choose to play with X or Y, I choose to take some distance because all our gaming experience was about problems inside our community, daily arguments, flame and trolling from everywhere, paranoïa, and this is not fun. This is ridiculous.
Playing with you again will be cool I know that for sure, but it won't help the game at all, I'll just contribute to everything I'm reporting here...
Again, you can't say that the game doesn't have problems, it's just not true ! What I do with it is a part of that, because people have to do what they can instead of what they want. I think, as avv, you are just too used to play the way you ever did.
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I understand your point but don't agree 100% to it, because it's exactly the problem of the emptiness on the server today and the lack of fun. It's not balanced at all regarding way of playing this game ; there's no good or bad way of playing, and people shouldn't HAVE TO be in a big team to enjoy the game, and shouldn't HAVE TO make perfect builds and alts. There's no middle, either you're getting destroyed at every step outside your tent because you are alone / in a small team, and are bored by just stacking stuff from craft, either you are in a dominant team and do nothing but wait 'till another big team shows up, and this brings boringness too. Majority of players should be in a category between those.
But I never said the game should be like it is. Personally I've always been against minmaxing and hours of grinding to be able to do something.
It wouldn't be so bad if 1 out of the 30 players I've encountered actually spoke to me or was friendly. Now I just have to run every time I see someone. That's just stupid. It's full of hardcore veteran groups or clicks who don't give a shit about anyone else; You're just a noob to them.
You can't expect something from others that has no profit in it. There's no encouragement to not to shoot random passers-by. It's easy to blame the players for making decisions that cause you harm, but if you play the game and learn it you end up understanding why the players do what they do and these reasons are tied to mechanics rather than the player's mindset.
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You can't expect something from others that has no profit in it. There's no encouragement to not to shoot random passers-by. It's easy to blame the players for making decisions that cause you harm, but if you play the game and learn it you end up understanding why the players do what they do and these reasons are tied to mechanics rather than the player's mindset.
Currently it's only about the players mindset.
Like what mechanics, those witch don't exist?
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Currently it's only about the players mindset.
Like what mechanics, those witch don't exist?
Random wastelander might carry stuff in his inventory, he might be a scout, a looter, a troll, he might have a gun or a bomb, he might delay your turn-based action with idleness, block doorways, buy stuff from merchants you want. There's dozens of bad things he can instantly do to you but hardly anything beneficial.
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Uh no avv... I leave encs without violence because I want to.
It's all about player's mindset.
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Uh no avv... I leave encs without violence because I want to.
It's all about player's mindset.
So you deny the list of bad things a stranger can inflict on you are false?
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Random wastelander might carry stuff in his inventory, he might be a scout, a looter, a troll, he might have a gun or a bomb, he might delay your turn-based action with idleness, block doorways, buy stuff from merchants you want. There's dozens of bad things he can instantly do to you but hardly anything beneficial.
Mindset is not some profit or something you can hold in your hand, a player behind the screen is not a wooden plank, he thinks, makes choices, decisions and with all that accounted for a certain mindset exists and is developed as the player experiences more of the game. Some players just like to socialize because of certain principles of what is acceptable and enjoyable for them, might be a scout or not, it's the players mindset witch will allow to not pull the trigger and inquire rather with words than bullets, after that talking with a corpse on the ground might not be fun for them as it might spoil immersion or something.
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But I never said the game should be like it is. Personally I've always been against minmaxing and hours of grinding to be able to do something.
Okay, so we are clear :) Didn't notice you were, as me, just talking about reality of the game instead of wanted it to continue.
Currently it's only about the players mindset.
Like what mechanics, those witch don't exist?
He's got a point, aswell as Kinkin's first post about lack of these mechanics. Yes it's about players mindset for now, but as avv said in his last post, "we" (aka old players) learnt to play this way, never trusting people, shooting then asking, and so on, because it was the only way to play correctly. And this is a problem for good-intended people we see in-game, they just think that the server is made only for big teams, and that every member from one of these teams is just a troll who enjoys blasting every bluesuit.
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So you deny the list of bad things a stranger can inflict on you are false?
That also depends on the stranger's mindset.
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That also depends on the stranger's mindset.
Basically same what t888 said.
Mindset is not some profit or something you can hold in your hand, a player behind the screen is not a wooden plank, he thinks, makes choices, decisions and with all that accounted for a certain mindset exists and is developed as the player experiences more of the game. Some players just like to socialize because of certain principles of what is acceptable and enjoyable for them, might be a scout or not, it's the players mindset witch will allow to not pull the trigger and inquire rather with words than bullets, after that talking with a corpse on the ground might not be fun for them as it might spoil immersion or something.
So in other words, the mindset of other players is something you can't control. Since the chance that random player will lead you to his base and hand out free stuff is less likely than the occasion that he might do something harmful, it's best to act against the possibility that the player is harmful.
It's undeniable truth that if you are on unknown alt and meet a weaker character it's more profitable to kill him than socialize with him. It's not profitable to be nice. I keep munching about this profit, but we must observe the game by means of raw data, not some roleplay mumbo jumbo that everyone has diferend ideas about.
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Basically same what t888 said.
So in other words, the mindset of other players is something you can't control. Since the chance that random player will lead you to his base and hand out free stuff is less likely than the occasion that he might do something harmful, it's best to act against the possibility that the player is harmful.
It's undeniable truth that if you are on unknown alt and meet a weaker character it's more profitable to kill him than socialize with him. It's not profitable to be nice. I keep munching about this profit, but we must observe the game by means of raw data, not some roleplay mumbo jumbo that everyone has diferend ideas about.
Can we all agree that different people do things there way? Some like to blast every bluesuit on the off chance he/she has 10 caps (Probably not worth the bullets/Cells/Rockets you wasted) and some like to help out said bluesuits. Its hard to attract people to a game where everytime they get up someone knocks them down and says "Wastelands Harsh, get used to it Noob" but if you like wasting people out of caution, griefing or strictly business go ahead. If you like helping people out go ahead.
There is no point in trying to tell eachother the "Right Way" over the forums. No ones gonna budge from there position of course.
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Can we all agree that different people do things there way? Some like to blast every bluesuit on the off chance he/she has 10 caps (Probably not worth the bullets/Cells/Rockets you wasted) and some like to help out said bluesuits. Its hard to attract people to a game where everytime they get up someone knocks them down and says "Wastelands Harsh, get used to it Noob" but if you like wasting people out of caution, griefing or strictly business go ahead. If you like helping people out go ahead.
There is no point in trying to tell eachother the "Right Way" over the forums. No ones gonna budge from there position of course.
Pretty much what I wanted to say from beginning, but through conversation it seems like you didn't point out that avv is not talking about "the right way to play", but the way we are forced to play / get used to play by experience. This last point about experience is determinant, this mindset we all talk about.
Here a concrete example : long time ago, the big french team know as The Cajuns (or "The Charlemagnes", depending on which session we're talking about) tried to set up many ways to help noobs, welcoming them, giving them stuff, trusting them and encouraging them to play with us. The result was a betrayal from a dissident french group, and our first base rape. From then we became only PK's for a while, there was problems everyday with our allies (principally VSB and Red Dots), and so much rage with our ennemies.
From the moment you allow players to kill each others anytime anywhere, trust is a very relative concept.
It's undeniable truth that if you are on unknown alt and meet a weaker character it's more profitable to kill him than socialize with him. It's not profitable to be nice. I keep munching about this profit, but we must observe the game by means of raw data, not some roleplay mumbo jumbo that everyone has diferend ideas about.
You're wrong on your way of thinking, it's profitable to be nice. Just, for example, in order to get allies and set up a little group who have its chances of survival. The problem is that there is no way to make these alliances in-game, we have to make everything from outside ; forums, IRC, whatever... In all others MMOs, making guilds/alliances/groups is principally doable in-game, where out-game is more for feedbacking/organizing a bit more. Something between namecolorizing and visible reputation on player's skins/HUD is what we need, because the principle of "faction" in FOnline is quite relative since ever.
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You're wrong on your way of thinking, it's profitable to be nice. Just, for example, in order to get allies and set up a little group who have its chances of survival. The problem is that there is no way to make these alliances in-game, we have to make everything from outside ; forums, IRC, whatever... In all others MMOs, making guilds/alliances/groups is principally doable in-game, where out-game is more for feedbacking/organizing a bit more. Something between namecolorizing and visible reputation on player's skins/HUD is what we need, because the principle of "faction" in FOnline is quite relative since ever.
It's not as profitable to be nice as it is to be mean.
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Profit can't be seen as the only value that drives player interaction and associative actions, it's just not like that. Players do Town Control not because it is profitable and compete just for the sense of sport, to be competitive, it all included boils down to the mindset of players.
Certain behavior is of course more predictable when more factors are involved, like full loot, it all comes in hand with the wasteland theme making new players paranoid to loose gear, some player groups hostile and those witch are against hostility and tend to socialize, that pointed out it encourages the player to make certain decisions on how they want to play the game. Game mechanics can encourage something, but will not make a decision for you or tell you how the game should be played, it is up to the player and each player is an individual and that can make each action in some sort of way unique. Player can kill for different reasons as well be nice, right?
Talking about profit, let's say some sort of system actually is implemented in TC that let non-faction players do trading, mining, basically all possible activities gaining some sort of benefit for the faction that holds the town, that benefit of course will be in game profit - items. To some extent it all really works, but when a gang will have enough equipment and stuff, do you think they still will be nice? The "encouragement" is always there, but it in the end it is up to the gang how to choose to run the city, some will just not care about the benefit, since you can always kill someone for the stuff, not gain artificial bonuses from magic box.
Mindset is what you are, not what mechanics tell you to be. :)
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Profit can't be seen as the only value that drives player interaction and associative actions, it's just not like that. Players do Town Control not because it is profitable and compete just for the sense of sport, to be competitive, it all included boils down to the mindset of players
I'm talking about instances where you meet single players in unsafe areas, not about tc and gangs. You can't deny that when meeting a random wastelander there's a higher risk that he does something harmful than good inside the meeting instance.
Talking about profit, let's say some sort of system actually is implemented in TC that let non-faction players do trading, mining, basically all possible activities gaining some sort of benefit for the faction that holds the town, that benefit of course will be in game profit - items. To some extent it all really works, but when a gang will have enough equipment and stuff, do you think they still will be nice? The "encouragement" is always there, but it in the end it is up to the gang how to choose to run the city, some will just not care about the benefit, since you can always kill someone for the stuff, not gain artificial bonuses from magic box.
Mindset is what you are, not what mechanics tell you to be. :)
So far no matter how much stuff even big gang members have, they always loot their victims. If they just wanted to kill them out of spite, they would leave the stuff.
Besides if the players have so much stuff that they no longer care about it, it's about lacking mechanics that should keep players on their toes all the time. For example trading and taking care of good customers is basically non-existent in this game, you can get everything yourself and then do whatever you want.
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I'm talking about instances where you meet single players in unsafe areas, not about tc and gangs. You can't deny that when meeting a random wastelander there's a higher risk that he does something harmful than good inside the meeting instance.
Yeah and so? I am talking about the reasons behind it, why do you keep focusing on some certain scenario anway? It's meant to be like that, mechanics encourage the risk, but it doesn't mean everyone will follow it as a code and try to minimize the threat by killing everyone they meet.
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Yeah and so? I am talking about the reasons behind it, why do you keep focusing on some certain scenario anway? It's meant to be like that, mechanics encourage the risk, but it doesn't mean everyone will follow it as a code and try to minimize the threat by killing everyone they meet.
Because that some dude many posts upwards was telling everyone was so mean to him and blamed the players for it. I wanted to point out that players can't be blamed for what mechanics tell them to do. But even though mechanics tell something, players don't have to listen like you said. So nothing to it.
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It's really hard to find out what behavior should be the majority in FOnline, we see it very well reading at our differents opinions. Mechanics aren't sufficient today to decide on that, that's why it's about mindset for now, as already said. I looked a bit about The War Z, which has free-pk feature like FOnline, and today they're having exactly the same problem as we have since the beginning.
I'm talking about instances where you meet single players in unsafe areas, not about tc and gangs. You can't deny that when meeting a random wastelander there's a higher risk that he does something harmful than good inside the meeting instance.
I can't really reply to that now, as I didn't play enough lasts sessions for my argument to be still valid. Tell me if my following point is still true or not.
Back in the days, in this case of instance, I firstly tried to socialize (aka say "Hello") to see how the player would react. From here, 4 possibilities : he ran away, he replied back and a conversation starts, he replied back and shoots first, or he just shot (before or after my "Hello", but that's irrelevant). Why did I do that ? Because I knew very well my character by experience, as I played mainly with the same one, Awareness didn't shown HP/gear when passing mouse over someone (I was always in combat leather jacket when not TCing btw), and I knew that majority of players couldn't build a good char. So in the case that he shot me, I killed him 99% of the time... So I pretty much never taken any risks by trying to socialize, I don't say it didn't happen, but it was so tiny, and the results of a successfull socialization were 10 times better than a stupid butchery.
All that boring story to say, well experienced players should be an example, you don't have anything to loose of you're on a good team, it's all about ego...
So far no matter how much stuff even big gang members have, they always loot their victims. If they just wanted to kill them out of spite, they would leave the stuff.
Hmm it's true, and it's a really interesting point to analyze. Why taking the stuff when you don't need it ? I would like to know if majority of players come back directly where they died or don't because they don't want to be chainkilled by a dude who camps his loot, I think this would be really relevant.
Besides if the players have so much stuff that they no longer care about it, it's about lacking mechanics that should keep players on their toes all the time. For example trading and taking care of good customers is basically non-existent in this game, you can get everything yourself and then do whatever you want.
100% of agreement, economy plays a BIG role in all these problems.
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I can't really reply to that now, as I didn't play enough lasts sessions for my argument to be still valid. Tell me if my following point is still true or not.
In my case it's not true at all. One of the most important rule of farming is: "Don't get interested". This means that if you're after a task, you don't stray from that path if something unexpected appears.
For example when it comes to getting something from unsafe location, like buying a car there's a process to follow: scout, enter, buy, leave. There's no room for little chat with other players there.
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In my case it's not true at all. One of the most important rule of farming is: "Don't get interested". This means that if you're after a task, you don't stray from that path if something unexpected appears.
For example when it comes to getting something from unsafe location, like buying a car there's a process to follow: scout, enter, buy, leave. There's no room for little chat with other players there.
Ow, I agree with that, but I was talking about my behavior principally in random encounters (while pexing, ...) or when I'm in a town with no particular goal ^^ For all tasks like taking a profession level, buy a car, of course I was soooo stressed that I tried to have an escort everytime, or at least be as quick as possible and never spawn in main entrance. Especially when in those cases you have nothing but your caps on you, for not bringing attention on you.