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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Paladin on August 28, 2012, 10:26:25 am

Title: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 28, 2012, 10:26:25 am
Yes as name of topic says I suggest to dissable some functions and set some as it was before wipe.


Fastrelog


First of all  - this feature ruined this game
fastrelog was cheat and now its ok wtf

no cooldown players with more alts wins - so players who want some fun and have for example real life cant enjoy that game ale quit.

Ideas like adding extra anti combat cooldown and lowering stats is stupid because:

1. How cooldown affect trolls ?
2. Do you realy need empty server ?

Simply set it as it was before wipe 3 minutes is enough.

Many players dont accept exuses like people will always cheat this so we will allow fastrelog ! Then ban these people.


Armor class


this is second feature is here why ? To annoy people to ruin player base as fastrelog or why ?
Its totaly nonsense to have 60-70 hit chance with 300 skill 12 PE with laser rifle to torso on troll. Of course troll has jinxed.

Weapons like shotguns flamers miniguns should have highest chance to hit. But in sum this is out of mind

220 AC jinxed is better than full geared combat character because its immortal.

Make AC as it was max cap. 90 or remove it.
Because its not needed



Heavy Handed


This is another nonsense. Every hit KD -3 AP ?? why ??
Just make it working only vs NPCs


Snipers


Its totaly uselles to play sniper this type of char is good only for crippling sometimes or killing trolls but why ?

You made super crit boost for bursts before.
every BG has higher dmg
every BG was improved

But what about snipers ?
Last session was sniper vs biggun balanced you had chance to do some KD or KO and now its mirracle if it occurs.
This session force people to use BGs and AC trolls because other chars are uselles

I suggest to improve right betwen the eyes perk with some extra crit bonus.
Because with sniper you dont have chance to kill biggun.
Hitting head is realy funny with Boneheads man of steels and almost no chance to make good critical hit but of cource BGs always do good crits. Also why all combat helmets have crit chance mod -20 ?? and amor has -10 ...

Improving sniper dmg will also help maybe 2x it will still not kill BG because now you need about 4-5 critical shots and thats more than 25 AP and BG needs 12+ ap to kill sniper ... non balanced


Weapons


as I wrote not many weapons were improved only BGs
But what about others ? Gausses Plasma rifles ? or every Hi tech SG

Gauss pistol has same problem as sniper rifle without.

Plasma rifle has nice range boost to 30 hex but dmg is not good because it has lower range than every BG
so Plasma should have higher dmg lets say +30% because of diffrence between range of laser rifle.

So I suggest to make plasma 40 - 85 Dmg

some Hi tech sg like p90 and pancors

P90 was good weapon now its total uselles its very weak and you have to 1 hex but you will be lucky if you kill someone by one hex

Higher dmg should help P90 16 - 23 .


Shotguns Caws Pancors
its dissaster these weapon are total uselles maybe against scorpions or molerats

add KD perk as for heavy handed for these hi tech shotguns also some dmg buff would be nice

Also it should be nice to see P90 and Pancor in some encounters.

Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Cyber Jesus on August 28, 2012, 10:40:08 am
No AC is not immortal make one and then post about it
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 28, 2012, 10:44:03 am
Kill one and post it again .
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: -Fojtik- on August 28, 2012, 10:58:14 am
No AC is not immortal make one and then post about it

Well, this feature is a total crap. Who as bluesuit, without armor in real life survives 20 or more shots.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Kilgore on August 28, 2012, 11:52:41 am
Adding 3min cooldown will be a pain for most of the players, others will just bypass it with fast relog anyway, causing a wall of butthurt. With no GMs actually enforcing game rules right now you could fast relog or dual log and get away with it. So, I'm not sure that adding this cooldown will help and I'm pretty sure that people will still whine about it.

I agree about trollbuilds (AC, heavy handed), but I doubt they will do anything with that. Fixing it is like few minutes of work but nobody cares about doing it.

I play sniper and it isn't so bad. Of course you're dead if you get caught in burster's range, but it should stay this way. Drop weapon/overall critical rate seems rather ok.

About the rest I don't have an idea, I personally think that prewipe perks/pvp/weapon balance was much better and could be improved easily.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 28, 2012, 12:17:07 pm
Adding 3min cooldown will be a pain for most of the players, others will just bypass it with fast relog anyway, causing a wall of butthurt. With no GMs actually enforcing game rules right now you could fast relog or dual log and get away with it. So, I'm not sure that adding this cooldown will help and I'm pretty sure that people will still whine about it.

So you say that everyone is interested in 4+ alts on WM or more ? You can byppas fastrelog by cheat so it should be punnished ... ok why there are no GM ? Make some new GMs then.
All this is bad because this force people to cheat and fastrelog is kind of cheat.  3 mins are ok because it was OK.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: -Fojtik- on August 28, 2012, 01:11:52 pm
I support those 3mins of cooldown as before the wipe or as someone said:
- Change of SPECIAL character that would not able to fight after fast relog for 3-10 minutes.

Actually, who only in this game prevent this fraud and keep crying is only a small group of addict players who can not play without the cheating. And I'll bet that more players begin to play after cancellation fast relog, as well as limitations of heavy handed trait, AC trolls and similar nonsence as they wrote already or stopped playing.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Kelin on August 28, 2012, 02:25:26 pm
I support those 3mins of cooldown as before the wipe...
3 minute cooldown before wipe is a myth. It was 10 minutes with possibility to get on 3 minute cooldown if staying ingame for longer time. And it sucked hard. Make 1 or 2 min cooldown that should be enough to not piss regular players who are not involved into pvp shit.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Crazy on August 28, 2012, 02:49:47 pm
Or easier, only trigger the 3 min cooldown on death.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: T-888 on August 28, 2012, 03:33:26 pm
I've thought about this enough, there really aren't any cons if you put some 3 min CD on combat or even on death like Crazy is suggesting.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: naossano on August 28, 2012, 04:20:28 pm
PVP cheaters will dual.
Non PVP, will have the con, with none of the pros.
Non cheater PVP will get overwhelmed like previous cession.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Simon on August 28, 2012, 04:24:21 pm
I Agree with everything and it is a good suggestion to put the relog timer on death only which will stop the MAJORITY of pvpers dying in 10 seconds and instant relogging to their next character, repeating the process until they win based on how much time they have invested in leveling combat characters and preparing gear for them. It will also still allow crafters to craft and shit shovelers to shovel without being restricted by a relog timer.

Now JovankaB says that it will still be possible to fast relog or multilog as it was last session BUT this is only partially true as it requires additional hardware (not software) requirements in order to bypass the timer which the average pvper doesn't have or has a limited amount of and takes additional effort to do. Also only a few select people in a team would be able to do it which is considerably less than a whole team bringing 3 or more waves of characters and it would disrupt organization and communication between the players in the team.

This was evident last session where there was about a 80% decrease in fast relogs or multilogs and instead players chose to respawn after they died and hurry back to their tent to gear up and join the action again which took around 1 to 5 minutes depending on the respawn location, if you used a car, if you had extra gear prepared and so on, in any case that is a reasonable amount of time for one group of players to win a battle, loot and leave. Usually only one battle would take place and a town would be captured (or not) and the teams would fully regear, regroup and begin another battle which makes more sense.

Finally, unless you fast relog or multilog with proxies (which increase your ping greatly often making you unable to PvP properly as well as statements from gms saying that public proxies are easy to catch and ban/blacklist) there will be a much smaller number of people using this cheat therefore it will be much easier for a GM/Police(wo)man to monitor who is fast relogging or multilogging especially at PvP primetimes when town control timers are starting. It will be quite visible for a GM that is active a few times a day/week(friday-weekends) monitoring the IPs that connect during a town control and permanently ban their characters (not accounts) so that the cheater has to waste even more time leveling up a new pvp alt (It takes 2 hours minimum to level up a new alt while it only takes 5 minutes max to ban a character). After about a month of re-implementing the relog timer and monitoring a little bit every day, fast relogs and multi logging will drop from the 20% or so to about 5% which is an acceptable level.

Now JovankaB complains that no one from the current gm team wants to monitor this sort of behaviour as it is hard, unrewarding and boring for them and that players will not like them (which shouldn't matter). Instead of avoiding the issue completely the simple solution is for the devs to pick a player who will be more than happy to monitor the situation unbiasedly for a month or so until the remaining cheaters have given up with their newly leveled characters getting permanently banned and continually wasting time to level more and more new ones. Once this has been accomplished this policeman can be fired from the team and everyone can slack off again. If cheating rises simply hire the gm again.

Alternatively the 2238 team can stick with their traditions in not hiring new gms and instead contact current or inactive gms and explain to them that the relog timer has been reinstated and they need a few willing people to monitor it. A few months into this session I was having a chat with Gorlak who has always happily invested a lot of time in previous sessions actively patrolling the game and punishing cheaters, he said to me that he was disappointed that fast relog and multilog is allowed in this current session and that everyone was doing it, consequently he disappeared. If this relog timer on death was reintroduced, Gorlak would be an excellent person to get in contact with about monitoring the remaining cheaters.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: LeMark on August 28, 2012, 04:28:40 pm
I agree with all propositions except for the FR. I taught it was shit at the start of the session but now I have it I enjoy long fight. Is something we never got before (some fight are 25min+). Maybe we can reconsider it next session but for now I see a lot of PVP and is very fun, we should keep testing this way of fighting IMO.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on August 28, 2012, 04:53:46 pm
Shotguns Caws Pancors
its dissaster these weapon are total uselles maybe against scorpions or molerats
Hell no, the pancor is very good
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Tomowolf on August 28, 2012, 04:56:25 pm
Hell no, the pancor is very good
Try running with non-farmable weapon at avenger guy with psycho used, gg
Fletches and slugs ammo plox.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: falloutdude on August 28, 2012, 05:01:25 pm
fr is good because it saves time when relogging to crafter so i like it for that. their should be a decrease in skills thou. in all combat skills,sneak and ac. if someone frs for pvp then they should be given a 3 min decrease of all combat skills to -100. this way atleast the winning team has time to loot (poor bbs wont be able to fight back for their loot) but will still be able to come back and fight in 3 min if they wish to.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: DocAN. on August 28, 2012, 05:54:56 pm
whats the problem here, FR? i dont think so, coz it brings more action then ever b4.
If you dont want to use/fight vs waves of alts just ask devs for no lvl cap, and Alt related with forum account.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: T-888 on August 28, 2012, 05:59:01 pm
If you dont want to use/fight vs waves of alts just ask devs for no lvl cap, and Alt related with forum account.

Or say goodbye to players who just simply don't have many alts or don't have time for that.

FR is no-go in general, because you think it's fun doesn't make it good, it simply just doesn't work that way. Nobody is going to stop play if you mostly would use 1 character in combat, on the other hand players are discouraged to play if they have to have multiple to be effective.

I have no problems with FR myself, i have dozen of alts and whatever, but i rather would like to rely less on who have more alts on WM. If the enemy has more alts it's usually a downhill battle, where is the fun in that?

"hurr durr, we have 8 more alts then the opponent team, we have more chances to win, hurr."
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: LeMark on August 28, 2012, 06:15:43 pm
"hurr durr, we have 8 more alts then the opponent team, we have more chances to win, hurr."

Explain me the difference between that and

 "we have 8 more players then the oppenent team, we have more chances to win, hurr"
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 28, 2012, 06:17:00 pm
Or say goodbye to players who just simply don't have many alts or don't have time for that.

FR is no-go in general, because you think it's fun doesn't make it good, it simply just doesn't work that way. Nobody is going to stop play if you mostly would use 1 character in combat, on the other hand players are discouraged to play if they have to have multiple to be effective.

I have no problems with FR myself, i have dozen of alts and whatever, but i rather would like to rely less on who have more alts on WM. If the enemy has more alts it's usually a downhill battle, where is the fun in that?

Exactly ... so whats better 10 vs 10 no FR if 1 side lose there is not so high chance that they ragequit because they lose 1 stuff

or 10 vs 10 with FR with unknown ammount of waves which will piss one side and force them to ragequit  because they lost 1-5 or more stuffs ??


Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: T-888 on August 28, 2012, 06:21:31 pm
Explain me the difference between that and

 "we have 8 more players then the oppenent team, we have more chances to win, hurr"

8 players for team 1 and 11 players for team 2, doable for team 1. Not the case if team 1 has 16 alts, 2 per one player, team 2 has 26, due to few members having more than 2 alts per player. It's a huge snowball effect, it's more than ever about numbers, but it seems you are too blind to see it.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: LeMark on August 28, 2012, 06:28:31 pm
you are too blind to see it.

Again some insult  ::)  you seems to be a very limited man to always come so fast to insult.

If you are not blind, you already saw mass player (like Norht Bandits) don't have FR for each member, only faction like BBS have many Fr for each players, that make fight 1 more team on battlefield so more fight 2 way more longer so way more fun.

I know now you can't buy mass militia the game is harder for you...
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: avv on August 28, 2012, 06:46:48 pm
whats the problem here, FR? i dont think so, coz it brings more action then ever b4.

Actually it brings less action. Players without fastrelog will simply stay out of action because they know they won't stand a chance.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: T-888 on August 28, 2012, 06:48:00 pm
It's an expression, you are very sensitive if you take such simple words to heart so much.

you already saw mass player (like North Bandits) don't have FR for each member, only faction like BBS have many Fr for each players

I am in The North Bandits, you are telling me now how we are playing? Great.

BBS is as numerous as anyone currently, that's not the point, i hope i didn't make some of their members angry of using their faction name in this topic. The point is when two teams come equal in terms of players, alts play a huge roll, i have this feeling you didn't quite catch by what i mean snowball effect and the example was quite ineffective for you, hard to tell if it's because of your ignorance.

It's when a larger faction of more players use more alts than a faction with less players, per player.

Swarm, swarming has taken a whole new level. I don't approve that, if you don't like that, you could at least due without meaningless yapping about some militia witch is totally irrelevant.

Actually it brings less action. Players without fastrelog will simply stay out of action because they know they won't stand a chance.

Relatively, yes more alts will result in longer fights, but as well longer time to prepare and yes, i know some players who just simply aren't playing because of this FR in combat and i don't know anyone who will quit if he won't be able to use multiple per fight.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 28, 2012, 06:56:09 pm
Actually it brings less action. Players without fastrelog will simply stay out of action because they know they won't stand a chance.

Exactly but well it brings more action for no lifers with 5+ alts ready on WM :D

Game before wipe wanted only few things like lootable armors less militia and weaker but still posible to have some and less merc leaders.

Removing militia was also bad step towns are empty and there are no roleplayers.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: DocAN. on August 28, 2012, 07:18:36 pm
I think, that some of  You are playing some Fallout single mod. Town Control is about team play, so why dont you play as a team?

T-888 just said: "I have no problems with FR myself, i have dozen of alts and whatever", and that there is problem, when other team members didnt have alts. Solo Rambo?
Why dont you share/give some of Your uber powa build to this who didnt have time or dont want to make them?
The same question to others.

FR gives some chances to the team when they will get backstabed, it brings long term fights, and only few trolls weeping about it.

Get used to it or "Goodbye"

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QYKpCkXxM5s/TepkALORIpI/AAAAAAAAAeY/1L2xPdER7QE/s400/Fallout1End.jpg)

You can come back again after wipe.

I bet that some will stay and do their best - forum PvP.

Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Kelin on August 28, 2012, 07:32:14 pm
Problem with fastrelog is obvious, if you have a team full of occational players you cannot rely on them in using fastrelogs. These people are happy that they have one relatively good PvP character and gear but once you ask them to bring two or even more characters, they just leave the game. The game shouldn't discourage people from playing it, it shouldn't be for no-lifers with 10 alts and three sandboxed clients running at the same time.

To DocAN.: Man, you've been playing with your pals for 2 years, you know them well. I cannot just "share" my alts to some newcomers I barely know. People I know for a long time mostly have lots of characters. Also stuff sharing isn't problem for relatively small and stable unit like you, but for us who have been raped like 5 or more times, it's much harder.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: DocAN. on August 28, 2012, 07:39:17 pm
To Kelin:

Thats why i want alts related to forum account. No lvl cap, and few more things which will remove problem of alts. But as long as it wont happend we have to adapt to current situation.

Removing FR will bring sandboxie, and its even worst then FR.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: avv on August 28, 2012, 07:41:16 pm
Why dont you share/give some of Your uber powa build to this who didnt have time or dont want to make them?
The same question to others.

Because not everyone is playing in a team with people who can trust each other perfectly. Even if everyone played in such team, the fact is that you can't have more than certain ammount of people you can really trust around you. When a team is small it's really dependent on activity. If members go inactive, you are alone with your uberchars but can't share them with anyone because of trust issues.

And what's more: players don't want responsibilities or burden on their shoulders in a passtime video game. So all this talk about: "Why don't YOU do this or that" can be forgotten right away.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: DocAN. on August 28, 2012, 08:00:43 pm
Then support good ani-alt idea and stop crying about FR coz You will have Sandboxie problem. Now everybody have same chances, b4 the wipe only high speed cpu owners was able to participate in long term fights. Ask Yourself what would You like more.
For example BH was taken today by one Man from CS, he was logged on 6 windows.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: naossano on August 28, 2012, 08:29:40 pm
Let's remove level cap.
Or, at the opposite, make every characters in the wasteland, lose experience over time.
So, except if you grind xp all day long, everyday, you won't be able to bring a lot of pvp char.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Balthasar on August 28, 2012, 08:34:11 pm
Speaking about PvP I think there's indeed some kind of unbalance between teams with more FR alts on WM then others. Lets say Team A wins first fight against Team B. Then Team B comes with FR and looses again. After this Team B comes again and wins against Team A. Team A isn't unprepared, so they bring in their own second wave and win again. Still Team B has like 3 waves left on WM and comes in again. Finally Team B wins again and Team A needs some time to prepare again because all they had were two waves in total...

Now the problem here isn't that Team B had like 2 times more alts on the map then the other one. I think what most players (who think FR is a bad idea) hate is the fact, that Team A surely was the better team and won because of skills and not by waves. I can feel these people who think so. Still i dont think FR is bad at all. And thats the other side of the medal. Beside PvP for the most activities in FO its quite good to have the ability to instantly jump on another char. "Hey i need a taxi quick!", someone of your team is yelling. No problem! Just jump from your char to the taxi and back to your leveling (for example) after the job is done. Before that you needed to wait and think about every single action how to save time.

If i think about the Pro's and Con's like that, i think having the FR now isn't the baddest choice. And beside the ape-actions most casual non-PvP players wouldn't want it to be changed back to 3-4min waiting, i'm sure.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 28, 2012, 09:06:51 pm
Then support good ani-alt idea and stop crying about FR coz You will have Sandboxie problem. Now everybody have same chances, b4 the wipe only high speed cpu owners was able to participate in long term fights. Ask Yourself what would You like more.
For example BH was taken today by one Man from CS, he was logged on 6 windows.

Same chances ? same chance is 1 vs 1 alt not 1 vs 5 alt wake up.

This is not crying and argumenting with sandboxie is stupid in case of FR.
Show me player with 6 windows doing some PvP and dont post pictures of octopus.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: DocAN. on August 28, 2012, 09:46:55 pm
So You want to tell me that you will play on Runner?
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 28, 2012, 10:51:37 pm
Yea I will why not ?
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: DocAN. on August 28, 2012, 11:26:37 pm
Nothing, just You wont jump from WM on POLICE when Runner will die.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Simon on August 29, 2012, 04:22:43 am
Yes Balthasar, the team with most skill (teamwork, organization, coordination, execution, strategy) should win a fight not the team that has the most alts. As was previously mentioned in this thread, if there is a relog timer which only activates when your character dies then it will not be a problem to instantly switch through your crafters, taxis and what not so long as you don't die.

If you want endless waves of pvp fun you can go to a special place called hinkley where both teams have equal amount of alts or waves each round and you can play as much as you like there, it even saves you leveling up new characters and getting gear for them.

Original TC system was designed so that team A starts timer then another team comes along and kills enough of Team As players so that the timer will stop, simple as that.

Removing FR will bring sandboxie, and its even worst then FR.
I don't think you understand how to use sandboxie/fastrelog or how multilog detection worked last session. Maybe you didn't realise that no one was using waves of alts last session probably because you were "awaiting wipe". Just add trigger timer on death and problem is solved.

Honestly if there is a relog timer it just means there will be a 5 minute or so break between actions where teams can replan and it will make for a more fun and diverse pvp experience as compared to hinkley wave of alts.

It's understandable though that many of you have put in months to level up your many alts and get extra gear for them to this stage where you don't want all your work to become useless.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Kilgore on August 29, 2012, 09:04:59 am
I don't think you understand how to use sandboxie/fastrelog or how multilog detection worked last session. Maybe you didn't realise that no one was using waves of alts last session probably because you were "awaiting wipe". Just add trigger timer on death and problem is solved.
Are you even serious? I think you have completely no idea about what was happening in pvp in previous session and 2 sessions ago. Maybe you were too busy roleplaying pvp fighter in NCR.
Yes, waves of alts happened.
Yes, multilog was used heavily.
Yes, fast relog is ALWAYS possible, especially if you have dynamic IP.
Yes, there is no GM who would look for players breaking rules right now.

Quote
It's understandable though that many of you have put in months to level up your many alts and get extra gear for them to this stage where you don't want all your work to become useless.
I've heard the same bullshit 3 years ago ("you win because of fast relog"). Then, they added relog cooldown and guess what. Didn't help much, because fast relog is not "I win" button.
I wouldn't whine even a bit if they add relog timer again. I will just laugh in your faces because you will still come to forums and whine the same way you do now, because "enemy cheating" :> Just look now at some teams who whine about other teams winning by fast relog while I'm showing them screenshots with their entire teams dead and EVERY player in (off) state. Stop being fucking hypocrites.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 29, 2012, 09:28:43 am
Its not about hypocricy its about what other gangs do. If you know that your enemy has always 5+ alts you need to have at least same number to fight them because if you dont adapt you dont have chance thats it. I dont remember problem with fastrelog last session maybe you do because you were always in jail.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Kelin on August 29, 2012, 11:18:11 am
Actually I remember many players with dual logs (proxy) and fastrelogs, yes it was harder than now but still doable. My friend had dynamic IP so before each fast relogging he just switched his IP and he never had any problems with GMs. Your argumentation might be that it was only few players doing such thing, that's true and also the truth is that they had a huge advantage over other "non-cheating" players.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Termap on August 29, 2012, 11:22:47 am
Before the wipe it was much better, you had just 3 mins to loot your enemy and then quickly leave from the city, everyone was happy because didnt died stupidly on enemies fast relogs (your skills, how do you what). At the same time better organized gangs were always able until this time come back and kill enemies during looting. It was fine, because you lost only one stuff for one fight from 8 this day. It wasnt like about you spawn your all chars like an idiot and then during 30 minutes you have all stuff to one PvP evening away. Actually, it isnt real to have 4-8 lifes for kill one wave of enemies on the battlefield. Also people are just players, no soldiers which have to spent all their time to preparation against kids without no lifes. As i remember before the wipe, BBS fought mainly just in hinkley, they were not often seen in other cities for PVP. Fast Relog is main reason why i left from this game! Keep this shit and kill the game finally, because people need freedom.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 29, 2012, 12:50:07 pm
Actually I remember many players with dual logs (proxy) and fastrelogs, yes it was harder than now but still doable. My friend had dynamic IP so before each fast relogging he just switched his IP and he never had any problems with GMs. Your argumentation might be that it was only few players doing such thing, that's true and also the truth is that they had a huge advantage over other "non-cheating" players.

As many as players in 1 gang ?
Proxy - pings and is not that reliable. Pure dual log - Ban. Switching IP - it can be problem but how many players have dynamic IP ?

Show me gang where all players have proxy or dynamic IP it can be up to 3 guys not whole gang.

And of course can guy with dual log play on 2 screens in Realtime properly? You can control only 1 client normaly.
So if dual log is cheat then fastrelog is also cheat beacuse diffrence betwen dual log and fastrelog is ALT+TAB and rewrite nickname.

Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Kilgore on August 29, 2012, 01:21:13 pm
Show me gang where all players have proxy or dynamic IP it can be up to 3 guys not whole gang.
You kidding, right? Dynamic IP is very common. I'd rather say that static IP is quite rare. Dunno how it's in other countries, but in Poland you've got dynamic IP by default and to have maintained static IP address you've got to pay extra. It's quite logical too when facing the fact that number of IP addresses available for certain ISPs is far from infinite.

"Having proxy" is doing google-search. Setting one isn't a big deal at all.
If you are careful, you can run duallog which is very difficult to detect. You could also use duallog to what is fast relog now, nobody is talking about controlling 2 or more pvp chars at the same moment.

You must be trolling.

Your argumentation might be that it was only few players doing such thing, that's true and also the truth is that they had a huge advantage over other "non-cheating" players.
This.
There was a significant amount of bitching about multilogs and fastrelogs in EVERY session.
Now you're free to fast relog and dual log and whatever you imagine - as everyone is.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: manero on August 29, 2012, 02:52:28 pm
Its not about hypocricy its about what other gangs do.

You want to tell me that The Cowards don't use FR? ::) Poor you. Everyone use it. But some use it better than others. The others cry. There are always better players. Deal with it.


Anyway i don't care if there are fast relogs or not. I don't care if devs remove it from game or not. But i like that i can use more alts than anyone just because i leveled more of them. It's fine because i put a lot of effort on it. Stuff x 10, time x 10 just to prepare for a battle  ;)
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: T-888 on August 29, 2012, 02:56:31 pm
Yes, waves of alts happened.

In times when unicorns still existed.

I played with you previous session, maybe you have forgot, but i sure don't remember you setting up additional alts on WM through multiple windows and then at least FR had a CD, that was 3 minutes.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: manero on August 29, 2012, 02:58:16 pm
In times when unicorns still existed.

You should understand that there was FOnline2238 before  April 11, 2011, 09:18:22 pm.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Termap on August 29, 2012, 03:01:17 pm
You want to tell me that The Cowards don't use FR? ::) Poor you. Everyone use it. But some use it better than others. The others cry. There are always better players. Deal with it.


Anyway i don't care if there are fast relogs or not. I don't care if devs remove it from game or not. But i like that i can use more alts than anyone just because i leveled more of them. It's fine because i put a lot of effort on it. Stuff x 10, time x 10 just to prepare for a battle  ;)
Lol, no life. Its your choice.  ;)
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: T-888 on August 29, 2012, 03:06:37 pm
You should understand that there was FOnline2238 before  April 11, 2011, 09:18:22 pm.

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8098/battleft.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26/battleft.jpg/)

I remember these times, do you? Hell of a fun it was, wasn't it? No waves, doesn't matter what happened before me, players just evolved, maybe bans were distributed, i don't care, i only know it was better previously.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Kilgore on August 29, 2012, 03:11:14 pm
I played with you previous session, maybe you have forgot, but i sure don't remember you setting up additional alts on WM through multiple windows and then at least FR had a CD, that was 3 minutes.
Sure thing, I didn't do it.
I used 3 windows (pvp char + double merc commander).
If you don't remember, ask msh/skycast/socrates, they'll tell you.

And surely fastrelogging while using 3 windows was a lot easier than for a typical player running one window.

In your realm of unicorns there was even a thread started by Solar somewhere on forums, with game log showing air strike done to fastrelogged wave of chosen soldiers chars. Your memory must be short, or this:

Quote
You should understand that there was FOnline2238 before  April 11, 2011, 09:18:22 pm.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: T-888 on August 29, 2012, 03:19:23 pm
Something did happen, waves of whole teams stopped, small cells like you aren't going to affect much. It's irrelevant what happened before me, get over it. Mercenary leaders are always going to be used on another window, have been and will be, CD on combat won't change that, but it will deny whole waves it will have a global effect.

Don't miss the point.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: LeMark on August 29, 2012, 03:35:37 pm
Something did happen, waves of whole teams stopped, small cells like you aren't going to affect much. It's irrelevant what happened before me, get over it. Mercenary leaders are always going to be used on another window, have been and will be, CD on combat won't change that, but it will deny whole waves it will have a global effect.

Don't miss the point.

You miss the point, for us who were not using multi log last session (vs Kilgore and is 2 pack of merc) it was pain to fight that. Now is not perfect, but at least is fair for everyone.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 29, 2012, 03:39:41 pm
You want to tell me that The Cowards don't use FR? ::) Poor you. Everyone use it. But some use it better than others. The others cry. There are always better players. Deal with it.

yes Manero you got the point I pray to you because you my are God of fastrelog. Once I will grow up I want to be like you :)

Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: falloutdude on August 29, 2012, 03:44:04 pm
fr is nice for things like crafting and taxi but i find for pvp it sucks. maybe no one else remembers last era's pvp but it sure as hell was more fun then this one and way more action on top of that. reasons for this was millita because people would camp towns and wait for actions now they wont and now FR also makes people not want to camp for fear of waves of trolls just slowly killing them. having fr for pvp is a bitch,on top of a team having more players then you they also have more FR'S then you so you get double fucked, which just makes people mad and want to quit. really lets just put a skill decrease and allow FR for only crafting,repair,looter, taxi and for adding people to bases.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: T-888 on August 29, 2012, 03:58:34 pm
You miss the point, for us who were not using multi log last session (vs Kilgore and is 2 pack of merc) it was pain to fight that. Now is not perfect, but at least is fair for everyone.

Wait what prevented for you to use mercenary leaders yourself? Had enough scouts, can't put one on a window? Please, you of all players. ;D

I explained this countless times, re-read my posts where FR is mentioned if necessary. Same thing goes for Kilgore. It's a lot less fair than it ever was.

larger faction of more players use more alts than a faction with less players, per player.
Mercenary leaders are always going to be used on another window, have been and will be, CD on combat won't change that

If it goes like this, there is going to be a lot of copy paste from me, because everything you are pointing out i have basically answered to already.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: LeMark on August 29, 2012, 04:06:58 pm
Wait what prevented for you to use mercenary leaders yourself? Had enough scouts, can't put one on a window? Please, you of all players. ;D

Player want to play, not stay WM and wait for spawning merc somewhere, even get a scout was complicated last session, merc leader was close to impossible, to boring to play. Of course if is your second or third windows why not.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 29, 2012, 04:42:22 pm
Player want to play, not stay WM and wait for spawning merc somewhere, even get a scout was complicated last session, merc leader was close to impossible, to boring to play. Of course if is your second or third windows why not.

Merc leaders has limitations now  but whats worst ... be scared of pack muties or next fastrelog wave ?
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: LeMark on August 29, 2012, 05:41:05 pm
IMO the choice is not between merc and next wave, but between having all the same option. We play together enough longer to know both Hawks and TTTLA was not big proxy users, we couldn’t not do anything against mass merc bringing by proxy like we see on T-888 screen. But our enemies are, I remember in PK before a fight in Redding Hubertus telling me he got 17 pack of muties WM ready to spawn, you will agree with me our alliance was never close of what 1 cs did alone. If you go back to previous system, a good number of people will still have the possibility to fr with fighter, merc leader and sneaker, and we (tttla and Hawks for example) will not have this option.

This is why I agree with DocAn, if we want to fix fr the previous system is not the solution.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: T-888 on August 29, 2012, 05:56:40 pm
The point is everyone being forced to alt to compete, your talking about one thing and forget something else every time.

Is lemark really telling me he has always had trouble with mercenaries? I can recall something completely different happening, but oh well carry on with the innocent act.

You just won't see new gangs, old players staying or coming back knowing they are just going to get swarmed by wave of alts.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Roachor on August 29, 2012, 06:18:15 pm
Am I the only one here who thinks combat is the fun part and the results of the fight are boring?
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Paladin on August 29, 2012, 07:04:12 pm
Actualy maybe gangs should make some treaty about max alts per player lets say 2-3. True fact is that there will be always players trying to byppas rules as was siad.

But actual system of merc leaders is much more expensive than last session so I think you cant expect 5 or more packs like it was.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: LeonTheNorse on August 29, 2012, 07:57:27 pm
wont happen paladin.

Some gangs will agree to it and some will uphold it some wont.

Anyway about fast relog, for me now it seems pvp\tc will be won be the team with most unemployed, the one with too much time to level new alts and keep these alts feed with ammo and gear.










Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: LeMark on August 29, 2012, 08:08:49 pm
most unemployed

With Europe situation the challenge will be big  ;D

Paladin your idea is not bad at all, but like Leon say it will be tough to make all PVP team accepting something like that.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: manero on August 31, 2012, 12:14:57 pm
Actualy maybe gangs should make some treaty about max alts per player lets say 2-3. True fact is that there will be always players trying to byppas rules as was siad.

There will be also players that don't care about crying paladins  ;D

Wtf is wrong with this community?
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Vito on August 31, 2012, 12:21:44 pm
You are alone, against all.  Your life will end soon. ;)
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: manero on August 31, 2012, 12:23:25 pm
Sorry boy. I got my own legion behind me. I will not fall!
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: Swinglinered on August 31, 2012, 01:08:50 pm
You are alone, against all...  ;)

     Heigh-ho, the derry-o
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: T-888 on August 31, 2012, 03:50:31 pm
Paladin your idea is not bad at all, but like Leon say it will be tough to make all PVP team accepting something like that.

Same thought, it won't be respected.
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: LennY project on September 03, 2012, 12:14:03 pm
lets cancel fast relog... this server isnt different in comprasions with requiem. This server used to be special... now it is just server
Title: Re: PvP and others
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on September 03, 2012, 09:01:59 pm
Try running with non-farmable weapon at avenger guy with psycho used, gg
Fletches and slugs ammo plox.
I guess you never tried letting the enemy come to you, and also, I don't think you will be alone when you are charging at someone or another group.