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[naossano]

Let's remove level cap.
Or, at the opposite, make every characters in the wasteland, lose experience over time.
So, except if you grind xp all day long, everyday, you won't be able to bring a lot of pvp char.

[Balthasar]

Speaking about PvP I think there's indeed some kind of unbalance between teams with more FR alts on WM then others. Lets say Team A wins first fight against Team B. Then Team B comes with FR and looses again. After this Team B comes again and wins against Team A. Team A isn't unprepared, so they bring in their own second wave and win again. Still Team B has like 3 waves left on WM and comes in again. Finally Team B wins again and Team A needs some time to prepare again because all they had were two waves in total...

Now the problem here isn't that Team B had like 2 times more alts on the map then the other one. I think what most players (who think FR is a bad idea) hate is the fact, that Team A surely was the better team and won because of skills and not by waves. I can feel these people who think so. Still i dont think FR is bad at all. And thats the other side of the medal. Beside PvP for the most activities in FO its quite good to have the ability to instantly jump on another char. "Hey i need a taxi quick!", someone of your team is yelling. No problem! Just jump from your char to the taxi and back to your leveling (for example) after the job is done. Before that you needed to wait and think about every single action how to save time.

If i think about the Pro's and Con's like that, i think having the FR now isn't the baddest choice. And beside the ape-actions most casual non-PvP players wouldn't want it to be changed back to 3-4min waiting, i'm sure.

[Paladin]

Then support good ani-alt idea and stop crying about FR coz You will have Sandboxie problem. Now everybody have same chances, b4 the wipe only high speed cpu owners was able to participate in long term fights. Ask Yourself what would You like more.
For example BH was taken today by one Man from CS, he was logged on 6 windows.

Same chances ? same chance is 1 vs 1 alt not 1 vs 5 alt wake up.

This is not crying and argumenting with sandboxie is stupid in case of FR.
Show me player with 6 windows doing some PvP and dont post pictures of octopus.

[DocAN.]

So You want to tell me that you will play on Runner?

[Paladin]

Yea I will why not ?

[DocAN.]

Nothing, just You wont jump from WM on POLICE when Runner will die.

[Simon]

Yes Balthasar, the team with most skill (teamwork, organization, coordination, execution, strategy) should win a fight not the team that has the most alts. As was previously mentioned in this thread, if there is a relog timer which only activates when your character dies then it will not be a problem to instantly switch through your crafters, taxis and what not so long as you don't die.

If you want endless waves of pvp fun you can go to a special place called hinkley where both teams have equal amount of alts or waves each round and you can play as much as you like there, it even saves you leveling up new characters and getting gear for them.

Original TC system was designed so that team A starts timer then another team comes along and kills enough of Team As players so that the timer will stop, simple as that.

Removing FR will bring sandboxie, and its even worst then FR.

I don't think you understand how to use sandboxie/fastrelog or how multilog detection worked last session. Maybe you didn't realise that no one was using waves of alts last session probably because you were "awaiting wipe". Just add trigger timer on death and problem is solved.

Honestly if there is a relog timer it just means there will be a 5 minute or so break between actions where teams can replan and it will make for a more fun and diverse pvp experience as compared to hinkley wave of alts.

It's understandable though that many of you have put in months to level up your many alts and get extra gear for them to this stage where you don't want all your work to become useless.

[Kilgore]

I don't think you understand how to use sandboxie/fastrelog or how multilog detection worked last session. Maybe you didn't realise that no one was using waves of alts last session probably because you were "awaiting wipe". Just add trigger timer on death and problem is solved.

Are you even serious? I think you have completely no idea about what was happening in pvp in previous session and 2 sessions ago. Maybe you were too busy roleplaying pvp fighter in NCR.
Yes, waves of alts happened.
Yes, multilog was used heavily.
Yes, fast relog is ALWAYS possible, especially if you have dynamic IP.
Yes, there is no GM who would look for players breaking rules right now.

It's understandable though that many of you have put in months to level up your many alts and get extra gear for them to this stage where you don't want all your work to become useless.

I've heard the same bullshit 3 years ago ("you win because of fast relog"). Then, they added relog cooldown and guess what. Didn't help much, because fast relog is not "I win" button.
I wouldn't whine even a bit if they add relog timer again. I will just laugh in your faces because you will still come to forums and whine the same way you do now, because "enemy cheating" :> Just look now at some teams who whine about other teams winning by fast relog while I'm showing them screenshots with their entire teams dead and EVERY player in (off) state. Stop being fucking hypocrites.

[Paladin]

Its not about hypocricy its about what other gangs do. If you know that your enemy has always 5+ alts you need to have at least same number to fight them because if you dont adapt you dont have chance thats it. I dont remember problem with fastrelog last session maybe you do because you were always in jail.

[Kelin]

Actually I remember many players with dual logs (proxy) and fastrelogs, yes it was harder than now but still doable. My friend had dynamic IP so before each fast relogging he just switched his IP and he never had any problems with GMs. Your argumentation might be that it was only few players doing such thing, that's true and also the truth is that they had a huge advantage over other "non-cheating" players.

[Termap]

Before the wipe it was much better, you had just 3 mins to loot your enemy and then quickly leave from the city, everyone was happy because didnt died stupidly on enemies fast relogs (your skills, how do you what). At the same time better organized gangs were always able until this time come back and kill enemies during looting. It was fine, because you lost only one stuff for one fight from 8 this day. It wasnt like about you spawn your all chars like an idiot and then during 30 minutes you have all stuff to one PvP evening away. Actually, it isnt real to have 4-8 lifes for kill one wave of enemies on the battlefield. Also people are just players, no soldiers which have to spent all their time to preparation against kids without no lifes. As i remember before the wipe, BBS fought mainly just in hinkley, they were not often seen in other cities for PVP. Fast Relog is main reason why i left from this game! Keep this shit and kill the game finally, because people need freedom.

[Paladin]

Actually I remember many players with dual logs (proxy) and fastrelogs, yes it was harder than now but still doable. My friend had dynamic IP so before each fast relogging he just switched his IP and he never had any problems with GMs. Your argumentation might be that it was only few players doing such thing, that's true and also the truth is that they had a huge advantage over other "non-cheating" players.

As many as players in 1 gang ?
Proxy - pings and is not that reliable. Pure dual log - Ban. Switching IP - it can be problem but how many players have dynamic IP ?

Show me gang where all players have proxy or dynamic IP it can be up to 3 guys not whole gang.

And of course can guy with dual log play on 2 screens in Realtime properly? You can control only 1 client normaly.
So if dual log is cheat then fastrelog is also cheat beacuse diffrence betwen dual log and fastrelog is ALT+TAB and rewrite nickname.

[Kilgore]

Show me gang where all players have proxy or dynamic IP it can be up to 3 guys not whole gang.

You kidding, right? Dynamic IP is very common. I'd rather say that static IP is quite rare. Dunno how it's in other countries, but in Poland you've got dynamic IP by default and to have maintained static IP address you've got to pay extra. It's quite logical too when facing the fact that number of IP addresses available for certain ISPs is far from infinite.

"Having proxy" is doing google-search. Setting one isn't a big deal at all.
If you are careful, you can run duallog which is very difficult to detect. You could also use duallog to what is fast relog now, nobody is talking about controlling 2 or more pvp chars at the same moment.

You must be trolling.

Your argumentation might be that it was only few players doing such thing, that's true and also the truth is that they had a huge advantage over other "non-cheating" players.

This.
There was a significant amount of bitching about multilogs and fastrelogs in EVERY session.
Now you're free to fast relog and dual log and whatever you imagine - as everyone is.

[manero]

Its not about hypocricy its about what other gangs do.

You want to tell me that The Cowards don't use FR? Poor you. Everyone use it. But some use it better than others. The others cry. There are always better players. Deal with it.


Anyway i don't care if there are fast relogs or not. I don't care if devs remove it from game or not. But i like that i can use more alts than anyone just because i leveled more of them. It's fine because i put a lot of effort on it. Stuff x 10, time x 10 just to prepare for a battle 

[T-888]

Yes, waves of alts happened.

In times when unicorns still existed.

I played with you previous session, maybe you have forgot, but i sure don't remember you setting up additional alts on WM through multiple windows and then at least FR had a CD, that was 3 minutes.