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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: T-888 on July 02, 2012, 01:14:32 pm
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Much discussion, much concern about this, though no real numbers behind this, well how many players see this as an issue at all,
no solutions provided.
This topic might change something, do you want to change something? Then speak and let's have a chance, developers are making a small update, maybe some small changes could make a difference. Discuss ...
Still insta kills. Crit bursts should have x 1.5 dmg modificator not bigger.
Now this was an idea i read. I don't know how is this possible with the random roll system, you can cap the damage multiplier to a maximum of 1.5, but can't make it constant, resulting either very weak critical bursts or just weak as they tend to reach the cap once the roll is done. That's not balanced at all.
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f*** I miss read balanced for unbalanced and voted yes,whoops. :P
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Come on, keep on voting, at least let the developers see that critical bursts need a change. It's obvious about the results of voting, but they need to see ..
Simple nerf to damage would do the trick, precisely how much i don't know and how exactly to do it, i'm not familiar with critical tables, developers are or at least should be. I could suggest increasing armor critical power modifier by 5% and buff man of steel to 15%, that would help a lot to some degree of level. Though that's not a final solution, players without man of steel would still get splattered with one shot often as not.
it is impossible to get the full community to agree on any single point.
I ain't living in happy land, are 90% enough?
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The damage is one thing, frequency of critical bursts another. Personally I blame spray and pray perk, which completely eliminates armor crit. mod. Why is there almost useless Right between the eyes perk for snipers while big gunners have this spray beast? This is not a rhetorical question, tell me what you think about it.
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- Right between the eyes mow reduces Helmet Anti Crit Modifier by 50% instead of 25%.
- Helmet Anti Crit Modifiers doubled.
RBtE is a must for any sniper now.
Frequency is sufficient, lowering it would result of critical builds being too inconsistent, and when scoring a critical hit, insta-kills would still follow up. There's no need to make them useless, nor randomize them much more than they already are, have to keep them viable. I think "attacking" their damage is the right solution how to balance this issue, make them still powerful with doing "reliable" amount of critical hits, but not exactly killing everything that moves in one shot.
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RBtE is a must for any sniper now.
I'm not going to elaborate how useless snipers are even with this perk ;)
I think "attacking" their damage is the right solution how to balance this issue, make them still powerful with doing "reliable" amount of critical hits, but not exactly killing everything that moves in one shot.
Whatever, simply every solution which nerfs these insane crit bursters is welcome.
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Wait, something doesn't add up. It wasn't supposed to be a nerf for the snipers, test fineese if it still decrease DR by 30% on crtical hits. Might be something they forgot to put in changelog. Remember how Solar was planning to change fineese to ignore the 30% DR penalty on critical hits ...
Whatever, simply every solution which nerfs these insane crit bursters is welcome.
Yep.
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Yes please, change the critical burst, Yesterday I was doing the gun runner mutant quest,
and there was 2 muties with miniguns, 1 did no damage to me, other hit me for like 30 HP,
then one did a critical for 250 HP!!, and That was the max HP I had but I lost health and I blew up and died,
and criticals with those miniguns are the reason I dead the second time too
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My opinion was only suggestion, im open for every solution. Crit bursts suck balls the same like silent death and both deserve heavy nerf.
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I hope developers know that SD needs to be nerfed, otherwise we will have lexx telling us that the community couldn't agree on that.( sorry lexx, it's just that the community can agree on such things much easier than you think ) Temporary fix would be for SD not working with throwing. Another poll? This poll here is a nobrainer already.
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but dudes, not every burst is critical so whats the problem? i have 25% crit chance bg and he score 2 crits, then even 10 normal non critical bursts. i have spray and pray ofc
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;D are you serious?
No, but when they happen, those are insta-kills. Nahh, there's nothing wrong with 25% of insta-kill, not at all.
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yes im serious, and they are not instant kills. Many big gunners have more like 250 HP and critical bursts deal like 180-330 dmg. (average 260) max i had was 330. I have 3x brd and mrd perks, and im talking about ~30 hex range.
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yes im serious, and they are not instant kills. Many big gunners have more like 250 HP and critical bursts deal like 180-330 dmg. (average 260) max i had was 330. I have 3x brd and mrd perks, and im talking about ~30 hex range.
Yes, most BG have 250+, but when you are doing PvP and your health drops by other players and you have like 200 left, then a BG comes and does a crit, thats an insta kill isn't it?
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Better crit and 2xbrd and u will see difference. I dealed 200-350 from lsw on max range with no brd but with better crit.
On minotaur event i killed with insta kill 8k hp robot, i used lsw. Same gatling Carits are insane
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Thankyou for making this thread, Triptroll.
There's no certainty what crit tables look like so making accurate suggestions is hard.
Max damage bonus to 1,5 sounds reasonable but nobody can tell what effect it will have in the end.
Best choice in my opinion would be to remove crits from bg and gatling laser burst entirely and leave them only for rocket launcher. Burst is something that does constant reliable damage, not random spike damage.
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Nerf gatlings to lvl where they are with out better crit perk. 150-250.
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yes im serious, and they are not instant kills. Many big gunners have more like 250 HP and critical bursts deal like 180-330 dmg. (average 260) max i had was 330. I have 3x brd and mrd perks, and im talking about ~30 hex range.
First of all things range has nothing to do with the damage output, unless your 1 hex from the target.
The avarage damage is way too high(from experience, including characters that have toughness, man of steel and good armor, the damage exceeds maximum health for most characters out there, even the highest health possible), that results in insta-kills most of the time, because the whole game doesn't revolve around characters that have 3xlifegivers and it shouldn't, it's stupid and certainly not fun to play. Even those 286HP characters, witch have toughness survive those critical hits often as not, maybe you get lucky or maybe you don't. Many players dislike this randomness factor involved as well, actually the damage goes much higher than 330, there was this video on http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,23103.msg206245.html#new , i saw a guy get critted for 370+ and he was a big gunner.
I myself have a character with 3x lifegivers, CA + 2xtoughness and psycho, i get killed by one shot for 322. Nice, see what i'm talking about, it's just NOT balanced.
Don't waste your time trying to convince me about something that is entirely false.
Thankyou for making this thread, Triptroll.
This is not the place to troll me, otherwise i will verbally destroy report you.
Best choice in my opinion would be to remove crits from bg and gatling laser burst entirely and leave them only for rocket launcher. Burst is something that does constant reliable damage, not random spike damage.
Striping game mechanics from weapons is the worst thing you can do.
Max damage bonus to 1,5 sounds reasonable but nobody can tell what effect it will have in the end.
It's simple what happens if that is applied to all burst weapons, gatling/avenger get's reasonable, everything else useless. 2.5x damage multiplier sounds much, but remember that the damage has to go through all kind of resistances, DR, DT, Critical power modifier( includes perks, armors bonus ), so it is really hard to tell. That's way too simple logic to just put 1.5x damage multiplier because hmmm, avenger does 120 dmg, so with the multiplier will be like 180 at maximum, sadly it won't work like that.( the reason for that is i think the damage is first multiplied, applied, then it goes through all the resistances) A developer just has to look at current tables and evaluate approximate decrease by himself, your right they see the critical tables, we don't.
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I'm not going to elaborate how useless snipers are even with this perk ;)
Wait, something doesn't add up. It wasn't supposed to be a nerf for the snipers, test fineese if it still decrease DR by 30% on crtical hits. Might be something they forgot to put in changelog. Remember how Solar was planning to change fineese to ignore the 30% DR penalty on critical hits ...
As far as I remember before update it was not possible to do weapon drop almost every crit shoot with 35cc. I did 50 bb gun shoots to: 1, 5 and 10 str, mostly 10 luck and MoS chars. 38 were critical hits, 31 weapon drops and about 1/3 of it arm cripple. So it seams something went wrong with those crit tables too :)
But back to the topic. Yes, crit bursters are too powerful, not frequency but dmg, especialy against so called tanks (10 luck, MoS, 2-3x LG, 30 dr), but now against bluesuit with normal minigun or lsw/m60 and good luck roll they are not so tanky anymore :P
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Better crit and 2xbrd and u will see difference. I dealed 200-350 from lsw on max range with no brd but with better crit.
On minotaur event i killed with insta kill 8k hp robot, i used lsw. Same gatling Carits are insane
liar. you can instant kill that high HP target with sg/ew by eyeshot but not with big gun. instant killing with bg's means the damage is bigger than your hp, and with small guns it means your hp drops to 0 no matter how high it was. so dude no bullshit please.
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liar. you can instant kill that high HP target with sg/ew by eyeshot but not with big gun. instant killing with bg's means the damage is bigger than your hp, and with small guns it means your hp drops to 0 no matter how high it was. so dude no bullshit please.
One Hex critical???? someone one hexed me with avenger and did 1042 damage
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Just a hatch but personally I think the massive amount of instant kills wouldn't appear without spray and spray perk and better criticals. Changing those two like making better criticals available only for sg and ew, and making spray and spray half armor crit modifiers instead of bypassing them could lower the one shot one kills.
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Without spray and pray, the critical builds would be hardly viable, though someone playing would still make insta-kills, only not so much. Spray and pray removes only crit modifier, not crit power modifier. With low frequency of critical chance, critical builds are not really good, too random, too much to sacrifice for it.
Remove BC and SnP, say goodbye to any critical bursters.
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Here's some suggestions:
- Make luck1 not affect bypass chance. That way luck1 builds will step in to challenge the critbursters that had to invest points in luck.
- Remove the crazy multiplier damages, like 2,5x, 3x and 4x.
- Since luck no longer protects from bypasses, you can add bypass criticals with 1,2, 1,3 and 1,5 multipliers. With armor piercing ammo it doesn't do incredible damage, but jhp ammo would have a purpose. At the moment bypasses are rare because most trooper builds are critbursters that have luck.
- Make psycho, adrenaline rush and toughness perks affect all damage, not just normal. Make it so that the damage resistance gained from those perks can't be bypassed with crits that would normally bypass all resistances.
- Make armors provide guaranteed bypass protection until the deterioration is less than like 80. That way nobody can receive a deadly bypass crit right in the beginning, unless he's wearing a crap armor or no armor at all.
So basically unless you come in a fight without any armor or crap one, you won't get insta'd unless you have little hp or the battle has went on for a while, deteriorating your armor. And even then it's not necessarily a killer-crit.
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- Make luck1 not affect bypass chance. That way luck1 builds will step in to challenge the critbursters that had to invest points in luck.
I don't like it. You made 1 luck char and could use all those points to buff other SPECIAL. You made 1 luck char, you pay the price, maybe it could be a lowered a little, now it should be like that:
Sounds like you have really low luck
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a309/Vorian_/Untitled-3.png)
Dumping luck will hurt against crit bursters
- Make armors provide guaranteed bypass protection until the deterioration is less than like 80. That way nobody can receive a deadly bypass crit right in the beginning, unless he's wearing a crap armor or no armor at all.
So basically unless you come in a fight without any armor or crap one, you won't get insta'd unless you have little hp or the battle has went on for a while, deteriorating your armor. And even then it's not necessarily a killer-crit.
I like this one the most. It was even suggested by Solar once with more than 50% armor det. to provide baypass protection. But 50 seams too low, 80 sounds better. And I don't think insta killing people with broken armors or no armors at all is a bad thing. The problem is when you go with max. protection you can get in game and still die from 1 crit fart.
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Here's some suggestions:
- Make psycho, adrenaline rush and toughness perks affect all damage, not just normal. Make it so that the damage resistance gained from those perks can't be bypassed with crits that would normally bypass all resistances.
- Make armors provide guaranteed bypass protection until the deterioration is less than like 80. That way nobody can receive a deadly bypass crit right in the beginning, unless he's wearing a crap armor or no armor at all.
Those 2 I belive could balance things out a bit. Guaranteed protection from armors, perks and drugs make tanks more viable.
As for making luck a dumpstat I dont quite agree with. Might cause some funny nerfing of snipers.
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It's just if the multipliers aren't touched, crits are still gonna instakill. 3-4x crits are instakill even without bypass.
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Change torso multipliers to 2x, problem solved. 200-250 hp damage for critbursts would still be fine, 150-200 would be a really heavy nerf, more than 250 is generally 1HKO.
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I don't like it. You made 1 luck char and could use all those points to buff other SPECIAL. You made 1 luck char, you pay the price...
So you think LK 1 builds deserve to die in one burst?
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Choices and consequences. Can't argue about that, kelin.
Change torso multipliers to 2x, problem solved. 200-250 hp damage for critbursts would still be fine, 150-200 would be a really heavy nerf, more than 250 is generally 1HKO.
200-250 the common health bar for characters out there. With the frequency of critical hits 150-200 would be just perfect.
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So you think LK 1 builds deserve to die in one burst?
Well mojuk said that the bypass chance should be lowered a little.
But honestly luck1 builds are made of glass these days. Laser crits do regular 150 dmg on them, even weak critbursts instakill them. Besides, if luck was a dumpster stat for non-critbuilds, it wouldn't be that terrible. Only stats you could smartly the extra 4 or so specials would be strength or perception.
An interesting change would be that both more crits and more ranged damage perks would require luck6. Make brd perks level 3,6 and 9. That way if you wish to be a real hitter, you would have to invest on luck. Lsw or rocket builds could leave luck to 1 and take for example higher str and perception and tank-perks or anticrit for levels 1-9.
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Before, we had 1.5x up to 2x multipliers with no chance to bypass but on rare occasion, you could KD or KO your opponent. Why dont we go this path when it was somewhat balanced after all ?
Spray&Pray has nothing to do with these uber crit bursts, leave it as it is.
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I don't know, I just don't feel it's ok for full hp high resistance (for example rocket guy with high PE) to die in one burst :-\ just because he has LK 1.
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200-250 the common health bar for characters out there. With the frequency of critical hits 150-200 would be just perfect.
Hmmm... 200 and below is more like snipers and they should get screwed hard when they enter any burster's range, 250 is burst BGs and 280+ is pretty standard for a TC build. So yeah, I don't think 200-250 dmg would kill line chars in one burst unless extremely lucky, they'd get screwed by the followup but critbursters don't really have a 2burst option unless they're paper thin. 150-200 is somewhat acceptable, but I'd rather go with 200-250 first and then apply another hotfix if necessary... it doesn't have to be a radical nerf really, just keep adjusting it one step at a time until it feels ok. Going below 150 would make critbursters totally inviable though. Oh, and keep in mind overdoing this will result in crit bazookas being trash.
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180-250 is fine. i had 5 285hp alts and i were shooted few times with crit for 250-270 and i just ate 2ss in 2s and i was fine. over 250 is just op. you can surwive 250 hit but 300 is fucked up
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...they'd get screwed by the followup but critbursters don't really have a 2burst option unless they're paper thin.
Every critburster I've met had 12 or 11 AP with brof.
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I don't know, I just don't feel it's ok for full hp high resistance (for example rocket guy with high PE) to die in one burst :-\ just because he has LK 1.
Nobody said that. I think that most of us agree that killing full HP tank with 1 burst is not what we want. What I meant to say was that if you decide to make 1 luck char you have to be aware of the fact that it will suffer more for critical hits than 5 luck char and noticably more than 10 luck char. It's like T888 said, "Choices and consequences". More STR or PE gives you advantages durring combat, why should it be different with luck?
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Before, we had 1.5x up to 2x multipliers with no chance to bypass but on rare occasion, you could KD or KO your opponent. Why dont we go this path when it was somewhat balanced after all ?
Spray&Pray has nothing to do with these uber crit bursts, leave it as it is.
Deal with it. Luck is important for combat, balance your build and profit. Luck has always been important, everyone thought luck is going to be the next dumpstat this session, wrong!
Can try decreasing the bypass chance on torso, making luck less influencial, though still important.
Hmmm... 200 and below is more like snipers and they should get screwed hard when they enter any burster's range, 250 is burst BGs and 280+ is pretty standard for a TC build. So yeah, I don't think 200-250 dmg would kill line chars in one burst unless extremely lucky, they'd get screwed by the followup but critbursters don't really have a 2burst option unless they're paper thin. 150-200 is somewhat acceptable, but I'd rather go with 200-250 first and then apply another hotfix if necessary... it doesn't have to be a radical nerf really, just keep adjusting it one step at a time until it feels ok. Going below 150 would make critbursters totally inviable though. Oh, and keep in mind overdoing this will result in crit bazookas being trash.
Snipers get screwed already, 2 shots of any common TC weapons just obliterate them. They are fragile as it is.
This just boils down the game to ridiculous playability, variety of builds, either your some jacked up tank that spends 5-6 perks for protection to survive some critical hit or a crit-burster that spends almost all perks for pure offense, any other build just obsolete for most of the part.
150-200 would be okay, it wouldn't make those crit-bursters useless, just reasonable, more balanced.
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Snipers get screwed already, 2 shots of any common TC weapons just obliterate them. They are fragile as it is.
Nah, that's the problem with Gatling Laser anyway - it either does a massive crit or just cuddles you a bit. Even against a sniper, you need to crit to kill if your opponent has a good build.
This just boils down the game to ridiculous playability, variety of builds, either your some jacked up tank that spends 5-6 perks for protection to survive some critical hit or a crit-burster that spends almost all perks for pure offense, any other build just obsolete for most of the part.
What are you talking about, crit bursters are actually the only perfectly balanced build right now in terms of offense vs defense. Snipers and lasers don't get enough HP without sacrificing stuff that's absolutely necessary for them to perform their function, BG BRD builds don't get enough perks to max their HP which gimps them as line builds, it's just critbursters and rocket launchers that get to choose something outside their "specialty" and get some nice variation.
150-200 would be okay, it wouldn't make those crit-bursters useless, just reasonable, more balanced.
Yeah, but when you're nerfing torso crits you're nerfing crit-RL too, which isn't too good because RL crits are good as they are. You could try 200-250 and see whether people still get 1HKOd a lot, I'd assume they wouldn't if they don't have shitty builds (which seems to be a large part of the problem anyway). Remember that even if you have something like 259 HP, a 250 crit is still not going to kill you so you can stim yourself and pull back unless it's a large frontal attack or you're standing way out in the open, which imo. should get you killed. It's more of a matter of taste and general lethality, 150-200 would be more in line with stat-based-numbers game combat while 200-250 would force you to play in a bit more stealthy manner so that you try to get the drop on the other dude first while still giving him a chance to react (obviously, the biggest problem with 1HKOs critbursts is that they don't give you a chance to do anything at all if you get hit and are unlucky). Both approaches are reasonable, it's just too bad that the devs never told us what kind of PvP gameplay they're aiming for.
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Shouldn't rocket launcher be good for it's inbuilt CC and not for insane damage?
It was absolute mess previous season when people brought a lot of rocket launchers, and they could do that very easily because of NPCs. It was basically that unless guys were spread heavily, most of them were CCed to death, opening path for some bursters to finish it (because rockets were heavy and quite expensive compared to light support and 223 ammo), but I could see RL only team work just as fine if they had awesome logistics.
Nah, that's the problem with Gatling Laser anyway - it either does a massive crit or just cuddles you a bit.
Obviously those 5% nerf on armors for laser resists was answer to ridiculous randomness of laser weapons. Well played developers - something is weak because it has insane counter? Buff the numbers!
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Shouldn't rocket launcher be good for it's inbuilt CC and not for insane damage?
It was absolute mess previous season when people brought a lot of rocket launchers, and they could do that very easily because of NPCs. It was basically that unless guys were spread heavily, most of them were CCed to death, opening path for some bursters to finish it (because rockets were heavy and quite expensive compared to light support and 223 ammo), but I could see RL only team work just as fine if they had awesome logistics.Obviously those 5% nerf on armors for laser resists was answer to ridiculous randomness of laser weapons. Well played developers - something is weak because it has insane counter? Buff the numbers!
Well, do they do insane damage on crit? Their damage is sort of weak as it stands, so nerfing them along with Gatling Lasers would basically push RL even further into the support weapon niche. I like seeing a good rocket kill from time to time and I'm pretty sure other people enjoy it too, so it's a pretty delicate issue to handle. That's why I'd suggest going for small steps in terms of hotfixes and a more holistic approach for the next session.
Just think what builds and armors people use in PvP, write what kind of damage weapons are expected do on crit and on normal hit (numbers to be adjusted and descriptive terms to be set in stone), consult the PvP community, tweak the numbers a bit, run a CBT with PvP players and if it works, close the book on weapon balance and never touch it again unless something ridiculous comes up in the future... and even if it does, you're going to have guidelines on how to adjust it to fit with the rest. Without this kind of conceptualization we're going to have to deal with ridiculously overpowered builds etc. till the end of time.
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Nah, that's the problem with Gatling Laser anyway - it either does a massive crit or just cuddles you a bit. Even against a sniper, you need to crit to kill if your opponent has a good build.
Nope, i have a gauss build with 188 HP and dead man walking, two avenger bursts from common build and i'm unconscious, any sniper with less HP dies and most snipers have less HP. By the way gatling does more damage on CA than Avenger, two shots from gatling on CA with no crits is just dead sniper and GG.
What are you talking about, crit bursters are actually the only perfectly balanced build right now in terms of offense vs defense. Snipers and lasers don't get enough HP without sacrificing stuff that's absolutely necessary for them to perform their function, BG BRD builds don't get enough perks to max their HP which gimps them as line builds, it's just critbursters and rocket launchers that get to choose something outside their "specialty" and get some nice variation.
Making a crit-burster means most of your perks are pure offense, unless it's a gatling/lsw build where you can squeeze in some lifegivers and that's it(glass cannons). They are specialized, yes that's good, but their so strong the balance currently revolves around them in terms of build viability, normal BRD builds are useless against them, they lack the offense in comparison and can't squeeze enough protection to compete, unless of course you are some jacked up tank or a crit burster yourself. Those mad high critical hits is what makes it unbalanced, the critical builds themselves are not the problem, and i want them to be viable, but with more balanced critical hits, so there are actually more builds that can compete with them. Currently there are mostly only critical builds out there.
Yeah, but when you're nerfing torso crits you're nerfing crit-RL too, which isn't too good because RL crits are good as they are. You could try 200-250 and see whether people still get 1HKOd a lot, I'd assume they wouldn't if the don't have shitty builds (which seems to be a large part of the problem anyway). Remember that even if you have something like 259 HP, a 250 crit is still not going to kill you so you can stim yourself and pull back unless it's a large frontal attack or you're standing way out in the open, which imo. should get you killed. It's more of a matter of taste and general lethality, 150-200 would be more in line with stat-based numbers game combat while 200-250 would force you to play in a bit more stealthy manner so that you try to get the drop on the other dude first while still giving him a chance to react instead of trying to overwhelm him with numbers/dps. Both approaches are reasonable, it's just too bad that the devs never told us what kind of PvP gameplay they're aiming for.
Critical builds as stated previously have either 11 or 12 AP with Brof, stiming between shots is not a real option and upon even a minor wound before the critical hit, means your practically dead if you get hit by one. That's walking on a thin line, just situational if wether you can survive that. Not get hit, won't work too with current game mechanics, trading hits is just a huge part of fighting and critical builds( with the fucked up critical hits) dominates in that, the fight goes long enough, enough shots are lined up and no matter what build, can't protect yourself effectively like you imagine.
Bad builds won't make an excuse this time too, critical builds are good builds from what you are saying, but if two of them fights each other, someone will make an insta-kill as soon as the first critical hit is dealt, again trading hits, can't do anything about.
Nefing avenger minigun slightly (removing one bonus ranged damage, two is enough firepower, in conjuction with critical builds 3 BRD is just ridiculous damage output that way exceeding RL's by a great deal) could work before applying changes to the critical tables, it was buffed without any real reason. Slight nerf to minimal, maximum damage for the miniguns wouldn't hurt, they would still be in good shape and as a top weapon without any doubt. I am playing with a build that has 2xBRD the damage output is quite high anyway.
Gatling gun shouldn't be a much problem due to the popular MA, and the nerf of damage multiplier, LSW has always been some magicly balanced weapon, same shit for RL.
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Nope, i have a gauss build with 188 HP and dead man walking, two avenger bursts from common build and i'm unconscious, any sniper with less HP dies and most snipers have less HP.
Yeah, but Avenger critbuilds are borderline inviable right now because Gatling is more than enough to score a kill. I'd rather talk about them separately since Avenger critburster is more of a hybrid combining the normal hit damage of BG with 1HKO potential of a critbuild - and obviously sacrificing a lot of your defensive capabilities. What really makes Gatling shine are armor bypasses... Avenger - probably not so much.
Making a crit-burster means most of your perks are pure offense, unless it's a gatling/lsw build where you can squeeze in some lifegivers and that's it(glass cannons). They are specialized, yes that's good, but their so strong the balance currently revolves around them in terms of build viability, normal BRD builds are useless against them, they lack the offense in comparison and can't squeeze enough protection to compete, unless of course you are some jacked up tank or a crit burster yourself. Those mad high critical hits is what makes it unbalanced, the critical builds themselves are not the problem, and i want them to be viable, but with more balanced critical hits, so there are actually more builds that can compete with them. Currently there are mostly only critical builds out there.
Yeah, but see above - can you really call an Avenger glass cannon a typical critbuild right now? You can make a Gatling (maybe even LSW, but it's a bit too weak) build that basically does the same thing with crits and has Man of Steel + max HP.
Critical builds as stated previously have either 11 or 12 AP with Brof, stiming between shots is not a real option and upon even a minor wound before the critical hit, means your practically dead if you get hit by one. That's walking on a thin line, just situational if wether you can survive that. Not get hit, won't work too with current game mechanics, trading hits is just a huge part of fighting and critical builds( with the fucked up critical hits) dominates in that, the fight goes long enough, enough shots are lined up and no matter what build, can't protect yourself effectively like you imagine.
Well, if you go all out you're totally right, but such chars have ridiculously low HP, 220-ish or something like that, so they suck against non-crit builds. How viable would they be with crits sitting in 200-250 range? Would they cause a lot of imbalance? I have no effin' idea because it gets pretty complex as a lot of variables come into play, so that's why I said we should try the 200-250 range (which is literally the smallest possible step down from 1HKOs) and see how it works out. If the problem persists, no reason not to try 150-200 in another hotfix.
Bad builds won't make an excuse this time too, critical builds are good builds from what you are saying, but if two of them fights each other, someone will make an insta-kill as soon as the first critical hit is dealt, again trading hits, can't do anything about.
I wasn't saying critbuilds are bad, I was saying people getting killed while running a trash build often cry a lot making it hard for the devs to separate viable criticism from newbie whining. I mean, games should be balanced for high level of play because most imbalance below that comes from people being unable to work out the mechanics.
Nefing avenger minigun slightly (removing one bonus ranged damage, two is enough firepower, in conjuction with critical builds 3 BRD is just ridiculous damage output that way exceeding RL's by a great deal) could work before applying changes to the critical tables, it was buffed without any real reason. Slight nerf to minimal, maximum damage of the miniguns itself wouldn't hurt, they would still be in good shape and as a top weapon without any doubt.
Shit, I don't really like that because it'd reduce Avenger to critbursting in the future. I'd rather have Avenger as it was before, doing a lot of damage on a normal hit and giving you that 200-250 (or 150-200) crit if you're willing to sacrifice HP. Actually screw it, if it's impossible to achieve this via a crit table modification, just put a 250 (or 200) dmg hardcap for torso shots. Something like "if dmg > 250 than dmg = 250" and the problem goes away without messing with other weapons.
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Could you have a pre-table multiplier for different weapon types so that you could possibly use the same crit-table for all weapons but then rescale the extent of the variation between a non-crit and a crit shot? That way you could keep RL builds where they are (since they seem to be just fine) as an explosives big-gun (or just explosives) and rescale mini-guns separately? Same with sniper rifles, energy weapons.
This way, the devs can change the balance of individual builds without affecting others and also do so with more frequent mini-updates. You might also be able to create more diversity in builds using this, i.e. make shotguns have a higher crit multiplier so that they can be used in a manner similar to the GL (tickle or crit hard).
Granted, I understand this may either overcomplicate balancing the game or simply give the devs too much license to change things a lot :P Small changes seem like they're always the best answer for rebalancing things.
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Even with 200 damage critburst would still mostly mean death because most critbursts are doubleshotters. So it's about 270 damage in short time.
Think about it like this: critburst needs to be equally good as plasma build because their gear costs pretty much the same and work within the same area of combat. Both are hard hitters but slightly differend way.
How I see it is that critburst needs to have better average damage, but worse peak damage and effects (ko, kd, criple). I honestly don't know how good are best plasma crits, but they sure as hell aren't 250, hardly ever even 200.
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There can be much done to shove crit-bursters in the ground, that's the problem. Simply trying too hard, too much to change at once can just ruin them completely, i advise simple changes at first, then observe the results.
My " wild " guess is to cut down existing damage multipliers for about 1/5( if 90-80 roll 4x multiplier, then set it to 3.2x, if 80-70 roll 3.5x, change it to 2,8x, this is not only going to make the overall damage of critical hits lower, but make their damage a little bit more consistent?, instead of 0.5x difference between rolls, it's gonna be 0.4x ) well obvious, nerf the damage. Isn't RL doing some mad 200 criticals already? If that's so, with the AOE ability it wouldn't be bad to nerf a bit.
Then the bypass problem, it's not game breaking for a sniper to do regular bypasses due to their mechanics, how they work, flaws, advantages etc. etc. their well balanced, skill based. Though for a big gunner, i don't think they should be possible to do regular bypasses, currently even against 5 luck characters it results roughly for about 30+% chance to score a bypass, that's god awful too much if you ask me. Cut down it by at least 1/3 for sure, instead of 60% on 1 luck, that's gonna be 40%, dooh.
Perks, armor, frequency of critical hits, weapons, nothing else is not touched at all.
After this, we could " test " and provide some feedback and insight, maybe something else will need to be attacked, maybe this will do the trick.
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Then the bypass problem, it's not game breaking for a sniper to do regular bypasses due to their mechanics, how they work, flaws, advantages etc. etc. their well balanced, skill based. Though for a big gunner, i don't think they should be possible to do regular bypasses, currently even against 5 luck characters it results roughly for about 30+% chance to score a bypass, that's god awful too much if you ask me. Cut down it by at least 1/3 for sure, instead of 60% on 1 luck, that's gonna be 40%, dooh.
Perhaps only allow bypasses from aimed shots and splash damage?
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Even with 200 damage critburst would still mostly mean death because most critbursts are doubleshotters. So it's about 270 damage in short time.
Think about it like this: critburst needs to be equally good as plasma build because their gear costs pretty much the same and work within the same area of combat. Both are hard hitters but slightly differend way.
How I see it is that critburst needs to have better average damage, but worse peak damage and effects (ko, kd, criple). I honestly don't know how good are best plasma crits, but they sure as hell aren't 250, hardly ever even 200.
Most critbursters aren't 2-burst builds and if they are they have extremely low HP (not 250-ish, more like 200-ish), so given the fact 270 damage doesn't kill a max HP build (and they really are popular) they simply need it. If it's not real 2 bursts, you can stim or duck behind cover between shots, so there's nothing wrong with that as most hits aren't crits anyway. What I'm saying is if you get hit by a burster with a critical, you should have a very narrow window of escape, not just shrug it off and keep on fighting like a baws. The problems start when there is no escape because you're 1HKO'd, but being able to survive it while remaining combat effective and not on the brink of death would be even worse as it'd basically remove those builds from the game.
As far as comparing critbursts to torso with eyeshots, that's just wrong. First of all, most critburster attacks aren't critical hits while on the other hand most Plasma Rifle hits are critical hits. It's like 25% to 75%, basically when you fire a burst weapon you don't expect the crit and when you fire a Plasma Rifle you expect and rely on landing a crit. That's why drawing a direct comparison between the damage both do is just wrong, especially since eyeshots KO, KD etc. and you sort of hope for that effect as much as a burster hopes for a crit... and do keep in mind that KD up close is often effectively an instakill. The problem with Plasma builds being trash is that Plasma Rifle has low range and the new perk system keeps those builds from having high HP while being effective at dealing damage. You basically can't have a 1.5-shot (not to mention 2-shot) Plasma build that will have max HP (which it needs) and crit perks/rbte (which make it a Plasma build in the first place).
Perhaps only allow bypasses from aimed shots and splash damage?
Splash never crits.
Also, for balancing purposes, it'd be nice if the devs created some way of submitting top tier PvP builds without them being visible for other players. Obviously nobody's going to post their builds in public and the devs should have access to best builds and use them as a reference point. That way they could simply disregard the opinions of people who haven't leveled up their game enough to talk endgame mechanics - and keep in mind such people pushing their agenda have hurt the balancing of 2238 a lot in the past. Oh, and if you decide to run along with this idea, please make it credible and don't leak the builds you collect, I bet my ass it'd keep a lot of people from sending them in.
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Splash never crits.
Was talking about rockets here. Anyhow, idea was snipers do crit bypasses since they aim, while rockets do bypasses due to shrapnel finding a way in.
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Before, we had 1.5x up to 2x multipliers with no chance to bypass but on rare occasion, you could KD or KO your opponent. Why dont we go this path when it was somewhat balanced after all ?
Yeah, this was fine.
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Perhaps only allow bypasses from aimed shots and splash damage?
Or make only several bullets from burst bypass armor.
I think it doesn't make much sense to have all bullets to bypass anyway (they don't hit the same spot).
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Why would you even want to follow real world logic when dealing with this stuff? I mean it's good when the two go hand in hand (as much as the abstract HP system allows), but I think when it comes to PvP-viable gear it should be modified with team PvP balance in mind.
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Plasma rifle is so shitty nowadays compared to laser rifle, that unless we nerf LR or buff PR, theres really no point in using one.
I dont think RL should be anything but support weapon, splash and knockback is enough.
Every critburster I know has 11/12 AP because its really easy to squeeze it in, just 10 AGI and jet. Add 10 END ,pick 2 lifegivers and you got 250+ hp 2 burster with 6 free perks.
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Why would you even want to follow real world logic when dealing with this stuff?
I don't, it just happens to be logical in real world terms as well (or seems that way to me), which doesn't hurt at all.
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Or make only several bullets from burst bypass armor.
I think it doesn't make much sense to have all bullets to bypass anyway (they don't hit the same spot).
This could balance out bypasses without changing their frequency. That would be very nice, altering the burst spread formula instead of critical tables, never thought of that.
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Every critburster I know has 11/12 AP because its really easy to squeeze it in, just 10 AGI and jet. Add 10 END ,pick 2 lifegivers and you got 250+ hp 2 burster with 6 free perks.
Exactly.
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http://clip2net.com/s/25U8y
Balanced critical build for avenger, i have no idea how much damage it would do with more ranged damage(+3 damage per bullet), can do without brof, add either more health, or bonus ranged damage. -15 DR from jet doesn't work on armors if you don't have bonuses like psycho, toughness, that should be clear.
On drugs already in screen, small frame , jet/buff/cigs/nuka ....
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I don't think its so much the critical multiplier it also takes into effect of 3brd. Lets say you shoot a target with no damage resists, you hit them for 100-120 on mamk2 you do a roll for a multiplier of x2 damage, that is still 200-240 damage crit. And a x2 damage mutiplier isn't consider a high crit roll. Supposively this was reworked but it seems more so for snipers and knockouts than being balanced for big guns.
Why not just rework spray n pray to work like sniper perk in fallout2 where it criticals based off of your luck. This could be reworked for balance, a character with 1 luck well not benefit but a character with 10 luck benefits but at the same time sacrificing special points, and the only thing this well do max is a x2 damage crit and a chance of knock down with better critical for higher crit rolls, but highest crit is a x2 damage multiplier.
With crit bursting luck is not as important when compared to eye/head/limb shooters for example. I think a rework of critical math for the spray n pray perk would be a suggestion of mine for a solution to this pvp balance crisis.
Or... Rework man of steel for counter measure? I think a good balance would be man of steel to work like iron grip, tree trunk thys etc... for torso. We already have bonehead and double the crit resist with helmets, there needs to be some torso protection perk. Bonehead + man of steel is also a bad balance the way it is because it makes these big gun crit bursters even more powerful becuase now snipers can't get a decent crit shooting them in the eyes or head. This has put pvp out of balance for snipers and laser alike. This whole crit burst thing pretty much just turned pvp into a bg crit burst fest. Man of steel should give torso crit resists not resist to all, kind of ridulous when you put into helmets into perspective, man of steel +10 crit resist and another +10resist with bonehead to head and eyes. So with a combat helmet that is +30 critical resist to head and eyes while torso has 0 because of spray n pray.
Or another idea is spray n pray should be reworked to be something more like more bullets hit target. For example at 35 hexes instead of 4 bullets hitting with an lsw its 8 when taking this perk (if this is even possible to modify).
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http://clip2net.com/s/25U8y
Balanced critical build for avenger, i have no idea how much damage it would do with more ranged damage(+3 damage per bullet), can do without brof, add either more health, or bonus ranged damage. -15 DR from jet doesn't work on armors if you don't have bonuses like psycho, toughness, that should be clear.
On drugs already in screen, small frame , jet/buff/cigs/nuka ....
This build is crap for a critburster, it doesn't even have max crit chance or max HP. You have to burst 3 times to have 48% for a crit (kill) while a normal 10-11AP critburster has to burst 2 times for 44%. But yeah, I sort of expected people rolling on obsolete shit the moment I've read about 12AP BG builds, lol.
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Usually only new players think that maximum of something is the only way to go, that build bursts faster though with lower chance to crit, it doesn't matter if you have a higher chance, if i am the one that shoots twice when you shoot once, compare the chances then. You forget that AP is not only just a tool to measure DPS, it's how fast you can eat SS, reload your weapon, open some focking doors when you need to. :)
11 AP vs 12 AP means having 5% crit chance difference? What sort of bullshit is this? Unless your running around with LSW/gatling that relies only on bypasses.
Avenger doesn't need bypasses to do shit tons of damage.
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IMO better crit on this build is waste of slot. Without it crits are deadly enough. Got brd/mrd based bursters with and without BC and don't see any different. Its fine with lsw/rockets build but you got MRD so i guess you aim to miniguns. I would take 3rd LG instead of bc.
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Make staged tests without and with 20+ roll, it's random roll increases from 1 to 100, to 21 to 121, must have a difference. Better chance to score a higher roll, equals to higher damage multiplier on average, chance for KO's and shit like that. Unless at some point the damage multiplier is fixed/capped.
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Usually only new players think that maximum of something is the only way to go, that build bursts faster though with lower chance to crit, it doesn't matter if you have a higher chance, if i am the one that shoots twice when you shoot once, compare the chances then. You forget that AP is not only just a tool to measure DPS, it's how fast you can eat SS, reload your weapon, open some focking doors when you need to. :)
11 AP vs 12 AP means having 5% crit chance difference? What sort of bullshit is this? Unless your running around with LSW/gatling that relies only on bypasses.
Avenger doesn't need bypasses to do shit tons of damage.
Lol'd heartily, especially because of the "new players" part since you seem to have no effin' idea how important those stats are and which ones have priority for a burst build... and weren't you using 1LK build this session anyway? With 11 AP vs 12 AP you WILL exchange 2 bursts when going at it 1 on 1 and yes, the 5% difference is going to stack the odds against you, hard. The difference in AP regeneration with 11 vs 12 is completely negligible. Besides, you can make a viable 12 AP critburster, it's just yours isn't that... but I'm not here to fix bad builds for people from outside my gang.
Edit:
Christ wtf, talking back to Manero on better crit? He's been making critburster builds even before you've started playing, he doesn't have to guess on this shit ::)
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you guys really should stop whining about crit bursts. i have 25% crit bg with spray and pray and yesterday scored 2 crits out of like 20 bursts. it is really not much
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you guys really should stop whining about crit bursts. i have 25% crit bg with spray and pray and yesterday scored 2 crits out of like 20 bursts. it is really not much
But that's just it: randomness. And that's the problem here. No offense but experiences received from single event prove nothing.
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1 shoot 1 kill, how are u gonna use ur 12 aps if u are dead on the ground? ;D
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1 shoot 1 kill, how are u gonna use ur 12 aps if u are dead on the ground? ;D
Overkill, keep on bursting them till you are out of ammo, or burst someone else
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Lol'd heartily, especially because of the "new players" part since you seem to have no effin' idea how important those stats are and which ones have priority for a burst build... and weren't you using 1LK build this session anyway? With 11 AP vs 12 AP you WILL exchange 2 bursts when going at it 1 on 1 and yes, the 5% difference is going to stack the odds against you, hard. The difference in AP regeneration with 11 vs 12 is completely negligible. Besides, you can make a viable 12 AP critburster, it's just yours isn't that... but I'm not here to fix bad builds for people from outside my gang.
Edit:
Christ wtf, talking back to Manero on better crit? He's been making critburster builds even before you've started playing, he doesn't have to guess on this shit ::)
I'm surprised you still don't get it. I don't take in account none display of pride how experienced and much time has been spent on playing fonline, it doesn't mean anything for me. That doesn't determine anything, blank page for me. Seasons come and go, critical tables have been altered numerous times, experienced or not, saying such things like "i feel like there's no difference", " i've been playing longer than you" well you know what i say? I say it's in your head and that's just utter bullshit until accountable, reliable information is provided, besides you don't look like any information cabinet for me. Get it?
Heh, so you are playing without BC because on how Manero feels like? I see, now this is where it get's fun. Now your trying to convince me how unimportant is to shoot first twice, to have a lot of AP and have a better firing rate, with an avenger minigun that deals considerably good amount of damage without critical hits? Are you mad? Talking about bad builds ...
With 11 AP vs 12 AP you WILL exchange 2 bursts when going at it 1 on 1 and yes, the 5% difference is going to stack the odds against you, hard.
I'm reading this and i'm quite lost man, you don't get it right? With more action points you shoot more in less time, in team fights that's mighty damn important if you didn't know, did you? I have a good feeling your playing with 11 AP critical LSW build(have 1 less str than my "theory build", 4 less agility, lifegiver instead of BC, pump to 10 luck, can have 1 less int that gives an optional special that most probably either stays in int for more skill points or goes into perception, unless you take bonehead without small frame, oh yeah more ranged damage to AB - http://clip2net.com/s/26d3P , basically need bypasses to do something ) am i right? :) Shit from what you wrote it seemed that you didn't know that avenger builds are even possible, that they are actually quite popular and strong. My advice, play the game more. Might be you learn something, Manero can feel bad sometimes.
Sounds like a new player indeed.
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Big gunner should be about tanking and 1hexing not criticals.
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Big gunner should be about tanking and 1hexing not criticals.
this. i remember when last era it was all about tanking. bgers with toughness not more crits. those were the days
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I've got tank bg this era. It literally sucks. The difference in damage received is usually no more than 50hp and the difference in damage made is much bigger - if critburster can hit ~200 I can do 100-120 from same distance.
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I'm surprised you still don't get it. I don't take in account none display of pride how experienced and much time has been spent on playing fonline, it doesn't mean anything for me. That doesn't determine anything, blank page for me. Seasons come and go, critical tables have been altered numerous times, experienced or not, saying such things like "i feel like there's no difference", " i've been playing longer than you" well you know what i say? I say it's in your head and that's just utter bullshit until accountable, reliable information is provided, besides you don't look like any information cabinet for me. Get it?
Why would anyone want to provide you with information? We aren't here to level up your game - actually, I firmly believe most people reading this who are competent enough to talk about this matter are going to have a good laugh about the loudest mouth in the forums having the crappiest builds in the game.
Heh, so you are playing without BC because on how Manero feels like? I see, now this is where it get's fun. Now your trying to convince me how unimportant is to shoot first twice, to have a lot of AP and have a better firing rate, with an avenger minigun that deals considerably good amount of damage without critical hits? Are you mad? Talking about bad builds ...
No, I'm playing without BC because it's better to play without BC because I know what the critical hit table looks like for the weapons I use. I've never, ever had a case of the dude I bursted surviving it, but I'm glad you'd rather waste a perk, makes it even easier for me to blast your ass.
I'm reading this and i'm quite lost man, you don't get it right? With more action points you shoot more in less time, in team fights that's mighty damn important if you didn't know, did you? I have a good feeling your playing with 11 AP critical LSW build(have 1 less str than my "theory build", 4 less agility, lifegiver instead of BC, pump to 10 luck, can have 1 less int that gives an optional special that most probably either stays in int for more skill points or goes into perception, unless you take bonehead without small frame, oh yeah more ranged damage to AB - http://clip2net.com/s/26d3P , basically need bypasses to do something ) am i right? :) Shit from what you wrote it seemed that you didn't know that avenger builds are even possible, that they are actually quite popular and strong. My advice, play the game more. Might be you learn something, Manero can feel bad sometimes.
Sounds like a new player indeed.
Jesus christ, this session I've had a 5LK build when you had a 1LK build, then I switched to 10LK while you were still rolling on 1LK, had a great laugh seeing how easier it was to kill you and your 1LK pals, stopped playing for about a month due to shit TC and lack of players on the server - and what do my eyes see upon return? You're suddenly a high-class specialist on critical burst builds, incidentally about the time when everyone started whining about them. That makes you credible as hell, kid - especially since you obviously can't do the math with AP vs damage dealt and still post shitty builds, kid. Oh, and the fact that Avenger builds are popular doesn't even mean they're all strong, kid - in fact a good Avenger build is very niche and most players don't even have the skill to run them right (because they're first line glass cannons) - especially kids like you, kid.
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Im runing out of popcorn...
My solution: Remove or nerf "Spray and You dont have to Pray" perk.
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@niceboat
The margin of error in fonline is really big, especially when it comes to crit based builds. I can understand toughness vs lifegiver arguments and I always happilly join these, but at the end of the day you will never be able to tell if you just won because of ingame-luck or rl-luck.
people have their own build philosphies, just like I rolled with 2st bg's throughout all of last season. Also, this argument is exceptionally pathetic as the devs didnt even publish any details on anything crit related and the whole thing is just a bunch of unknown variables.
bttom line crit is bad mkay
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they wont nerf crit bg's. and even if they do.. i had half year of fun while you were whining half year about crit bg's instead of making one and destroy other players with op hits
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Why would anyone want to provide you with information? We aren't here to level up your game - actually, I firmly believe most people reading this who are competent enough to talk about this matter are going to have a good laugh about the loudest mouth in the forums having the crappiest builds in the game.
I'm not expecting any information from you, because you are incapable of providing anything else but false, incorrect information, that is not confirmed properly concerning this subject.
I'm only about to argue who is the loudest mouth here.
No, I'm playing without BC because it's better to play without BC because I know what the critical hit table looks like for the weapons I use. I've never, ever had a case of the dude I bursted surviving it, but I'm glad you'd rather waste a perk, makes it even easier for me to blast your ass.
No, you don't what the critical tables look like, you just assume you know. Plainly saying it doesn't make it the truth, keep trying to convince yourself.
I know what damage LSW weapon does, it's actually the weakest without bypasses to a target with any combinations of toughness, psycho, appropriate armor, pathetic damage in comparison to other weapons. Last time i visited hinkley there was a guy with maximum health and LSW, he critted me few times in the course of fighting (i bet he had a similar build like yours), what your saying is just obsolete information, because you don't involve enough variables. See if your shooting at a target who doesn't have toughness, neither psycho, yes in that case LSW does quite a bit damage, take note that other critical builds don't have any of those. Make an Avenger critical build and it largely spits through defence due to superior ammunition and damage, doesn't have to rely on bypasses to do massive critical hits. Never had a guy who survived a critical LSW burst, oh my .... deep bulshit your trying to imply.
Jesus christ, this session I've had a 5LK build when you had a 1LK build, then I switched to 10LK while you were still rolling on 1LK, had a great laugh seeing how easier it was to kill you and your 1LK pals, stopped playing for about a month due to shit TC and lack of players on the server - and what do my eyes see upon return? You're suddenly a high-class specialist on critical burst builds, incidentally about the time when everyone started whining about them. That makes you credible as hell, kid - especially since you obviously can't do the math with AP vs damage dealt and still post shitty builds, kid. Oh, and the fact that Avenger builds are popular doesn't even mean they're all strong, kid - in fact a good Avenger build is very niche and most players don't even have the skill to run them right (because they're first line glass cannons) - especially kids like you, kid.
See the part that's crossed? I don't know what are you talking about, nor why. Did you pull that out of blue sky? So if you go into nonsense, sure i can do that. I know that we didn't have any problem dealing with your team, ever, unless you backstab like your used to. As far as i remember, BBS lost close to all frontal engagements with SoT, just like everyone else, no matter how much alts you brought, we dealt with your critical builds with no problem, might have something to do with your bad builds. I mostly remember dying from bypasses on my 5 luck BRD burster(30% chance for that, if the critical hit is made, that's pure luck for sure), other than that, it was hard to die against BBS. I'm awaiting the whining about militia or how much more alts we had. ;D
Specialist, huh? Heh, you don't fully understand game mechanics, i don't have to be no specialist to tell your just basing your builds on wrong conclusions.
Calling someone else kid indicates some high level of arrogance, climb down ser, your not as high you think you are.
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@niceboat
The margin of error in fonline is really big, especially when it comes to crit based builds. I can understand toughness vs lifegiver arguments and I always happilly join these, but at the end of the day you will never be able to tell if you just won because of ingame-luck or rl-luck.
It actually isn't because 10LK has about 33% of an edge on 5LK when it comes to crit to no crit ratio in a typical max AP attack situation, but you're free to believe whatever you want, just like triplefail is.
more bullshit
I don't remember ever having a less than 1:1 kill:death ratio fighting against SoT and I distinctly remember you dieing on 3 alts over the course of 60 seconds in Broken Hills where your gang got raped 3 times by a single BBS wave and you had to save your asses with militia. I'm convinced you've had at least one 1LK char, because it's been almost an inside joke how easy it is to dice you with anything cirt-related. Furthermore, you've also lost numerous frontal battles in Modoc even though you brought all your alts. Yeah, we've been defeated in Redding a lot, but that's how influence-based TC and camping for hours in an enemy town worked... so stop being pathetic, you're not going to confuse anyone who's been there, kid. Oh, and you have twice as many posts as I do even though you've been registered for 2 years less, so stop being so loud even when you don't know what you're talking about, kid. I mean you've been talking about viable LSW builds and better crit critbursters, that's enough to show you really don't know what you're talking about, kid.
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Well if(rand()%100>chance) is not a spectacular way to show of any skill. But what I don't really understand is whether we do need the shooting itself to be something really set in stone or not. In the end the difference is not there in PvP fights, as the skill in Fonline is purely tactical.
What this thread should really about is the quality of life in the game, and it's well visible what sorry state is it in, when new players try to play the game.
There's no way this game will be any good if only one part can be taken seriously, and everything else is just a joke that you must do in order to PvP...
When considering PvE, and the swarm nature of AI, you don't think changes are required?
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I don't remember ever having a less than 1:1 kill:death ratio fighting against SoT and I distinctly remember you dieing on 3 alts over the course of 60 seconds in Broken Hills where your gang got raped 3 times by a single BBS wave and you had to save your asses with militia. I'm convinced you've had at least one 1LK char, because it's been almost an inside joke how easy it is to dice you with anything cirt-related. Furthermore, you've also lost numerous frontal battles in Modoc even though you brought all your alts. Yeah, we've been defeated in Redding a lot, but that's how influence-based TC and camping for hours in an enemy town worked... so stop being pathetic, you're not going to confuse anyone who's been there, kid. Oh, and you have twice as many posts as I do even though you've been registered for 2 years less, so stop being so loud even when you don't know what you're talking about, kid. I mean you've been talking about viable LSW builds and better crit critbursters, that's enough to show you really don't know what you're talking about, kid.
I'm convinced that you have a bad memory, and haven't participated in enough fights. Keep remembering only one of your victories, it doesn't matter, if you don't recall your losses. Numerous lost battles in Modoc, we didn't even fight there at all, maybe few actual battles in this session, bullshit as always. I don't have to proove anything to you, it was how it was, nothing you say is going to change that. Try to justify your miserable losses as much as you want, it doesn't shake me at all, you remember 1:1 ratio. Oh come on ;D you've got to be kidding me, arrogant and ignorant, you just keep surprising me, waiting for your replies is like waiting for a new present each time. Ha, ha. ;D
Narrow is your perception of build viability, nothing more to say. That's very common for new players.
I have the patience to reply to more bullshit on this forum than you. That explains the post count, includes useless answers to your posts.
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Forum fighters ;D guys you should really consider playing the game itself than be metagaming here on forum ;)
Damn, I'm out of popcorn. :(
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Fcking good thread, please continue. Or rather not
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T-888 at his best, telling stories about rainbow and unicorns. This never gets old, lol :D
Btw did any of you see triptroll in last, like, 3 months in any pvp action on 2238? Or only on forum.
I'm logging into the game few times a week and I've seen a lot Hawks, Amboys, BHH but never triplol and his funny buddies. Heck, I sometimes even see Nice Boat on his pvp chars and on teamspeak which is quite surprising, but that triplol kid? Always logged into forum he seems, telling cool stories about himself and his mighty gang, but never in game.
Age:20
Date Registered: April 11, 2011, 09:18:22 pm
Welcome to FOnline: 2238, kid.
Ok back to the topic: I've asked few more or less active players about critical bursts and it seems that all agree that x2.0 dmg modifier should be the most. If I remember correctly, it was like that for a couple of sessions and it worked!
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Btw did any of you see triptroll in last, like, 3 months in any pvp action on 2238? Or only on forum.
Trollgore joined in to back up his comrade with garbage, by the way it's not the age that determines wether your immature,
SoT is not active, it's summer, this forum is a good waste of time, the game is still quite fucked up. Move your brain a little bit, and don't ask stupid questions like it makes you look cool.
All i had to do is tell manero that there has to be a difference between +20 roll, show one build i made in few minutes and someone is mocking me already, this is retarded.
Ok back to the topic: I've asked few more or less active players about critical bursts and it seems that all agree that x2.0 dmg modifier should be the most. If I remember correctly, it was like that for a couple of sessions and it worked!
Bypasses are the real problem.
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Nice flame thread. Gratz.
All i had to do is tell manero that there has to be a difference between +20 roll, show one build i made in few minutes and someone is mocking me already, this is retarded.
You don't have to tell me such a thing because it's obvious and i know that. I just think that difference is not worth 1 perk slot - that's all. I also wrote that it's my opinion. Whatever. All from me.
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Nerf the fucking critical bursting already god damnit. :-\
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Anoying aren't they? The critical hits i mean.
Despite this pissing contest of who has the better build or who knows the best, a great deal of players agree that critical bursts need to be uhm how to say it nicely ... re-adjusted. :)
I hope someone else other than Solar can do these necessary changes, his absence for an undetermined period of time might leave a hole in the population, due to these changes being a sensitive matter at the moment, that's also a nice way how to pinpoint the prior- ... eee importance of the subject.
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I go to reno and people burst 800+ damage to me all the time, its fucking bullshit.
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800? Holy crap that's almost as much as me. Heh. ;D
I can advise you to either make a critical burster yourself, or anything relatively efficient with the combinations high luck+ toughness+ psycho+ man of steel +close to maximum health to counter, unless gatling gun is your problem, then high luck+ MA/Tesla + man of steel will help a lot.
Most or close to all critical bursters have no toughness or normal resistances, LSW is quite an efficient tool against them as long as they wear MA.