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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Who Killed Bambi on April 23, 2012, 08:07:52 pm

Title: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 23, 2012, 08:07:52 pm
When i started to think about universal character - i was thinking i ll have at least 100% skill for all types of interaction.
And with 10 int, skilled, +2sp per lvl perk from 100% science possible to make char with 100% skills without  all gun skills, fighting skills, sneak and gambling. so it is even impossible to make fight able, (no speaking about more than 100%, which is low too for other skills), char, which can doo different tasks, from crafting, healing wounds, sciencing and other simple tasks, including barter and mercenaries/companions/dogs/brahmins/and maybe slaves.
this character also cant have more than 6 6 6 6 10 6 6 special, where 10 is just int. character cant even shoot from any gun or defent himself, but this is other story.

actually universal character for various tasks seems impossible,
then why not raise lvl cap at least to 40.
make exp-gain harsher in 5-10x times.
(i got 640 k exp atm, and this all from crafting guns and metal armors, about i get some exp, like 50k from hunting with 100% sg skill).

with 40 lvl it is possible to have about 600 hp, yes, i dont think it is way to big problem for big gunners or snipers, which can hit for big damage or instakill any target in wasteland.

skill % cap can solve some problems, and instead of 600+ sp at 24 it may be possible to be like 1.1k -1.3k sp, which make possible to each character have 300% sneak. which gonna make all builds *must have* 10pe. but why not cap sneak at 200% + stealth boy, or even nefr original fallout 300% up to 200%. snipers gonna be very weak then, but thats not a big deal, when maps in encounters is small, and target is easy to spot. or not a problem in tc, which maybe become simple town tasks/defence from npc, which is very good, and sniper/gauss build/high range bursters gonna play vs npc, and defend themselv from some gang in same town.
as sugested before hit in eye was planned to become impossible ( possible just for melee/unarmed from 1 hex + 3-6 hex for ranged weapon ) this part can make big bonus to game in reducing dealdamage, eyecrits for 300+ hp gonna be removed and changed for hit in head with knokout/kd.
so without hit in eye system with 200% skill cap is nice.
mechanics with sciencing/lockpicking/fa/doc can be changed also.
for those players which make 1 str snipers + jet + high weapon skill + no weapon handling and using sniper rifle which require 5 or 6 str - that era can be ended, this gonna be not so hard to invest some points to str.

alot text/cant read topic :D
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Wichura on April 23, 2012, 08:21:08 pm
Use "Search" button next time (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,5678.0.html).
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 23, 2012, 09:02:28 pm
actually there is just few posts, no dev/gm answer about lvl cap remove, and 1st page about alting.
i have no idea why doo 2 year old topic can have new life if it is abandoned long time ago, as i say before - without comments from team. so there is no info about lvl cap at all. no conception and this can be additional part for this topic or this topic can be dditional part for that topic :D
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Wichura on April 23, 2012, 09:06:17 pm
Why in Cthulhu's name you suppose this time you'll get any answer from devs?
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 23, 2012, 09:11:50 pm
Why not ? I have good motivating to think topic  ;) :D maybe some comments to my post and modifications can motivate devs to remove lvl cap, if not after this topic - then because of other things and topics from other players.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Megido11 on April 23, 2012, 09:15:13 pm
The Idea would add something to do after max but the HP limit should be capped at say 300 to prevent 40 minute TB encounters wouldnt really hurt to try this in a future wipe seeing as how its all gonna be reset
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Roachor on April 23, 2012, 09:15:54 pm
There is no point to a universal char or endless grinding.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: runboy93 on April 24, 2012, 07:56:43 am
Lol.. lvl 24 is enough, we got more HP and 1 more perk :/
And I was totally sure before wipe that lvl cap stay low as 21.. (6 hours to lvl up or even less)
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Kombajn on April 24, 2012, 09:24:13 am
We got lvl cap raised by 3 lvls, we got one additional perk and skill points.
At the moment one character can be all in one crafter as there is no profession limits anymore. And I think that this is fair enough.
Having lvl cap at 40 would just make all characters almost the same as you would have enough SP to raise many of your skills up to 200%. This is even worse then having several of alts.

Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Killer Rabbit on April 24, 2012, 09:32:57 am
lvl cap to 40lvl? sure and perk every 3lvl ;D
so now everyone would just make insta powerbuild and you will start crying omg nerf bg they killed me and i can do shit with my assualt crafter! nerf bg nerf bg, nerf gatling nerf gatling...;]

let me give you some feedback what will happen if they will increase lvl cap :

13-14perks :
1.more crit 2.more crit 3.spray and prey 4.lg 5.lg 6. lg 7.brof 8.better critical 9. even tougher 10. brd 11.brd 12.brd 13. man of steel 14. stonewall ;D
370hp 12ap bonehead 21% and lots of anty crits perks ;]
now tell me how did your even 240hp sniper can handle this build? :D (stonewall + bonehead + ca helmet + 10ag) you cant knock me donw
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Perteks on April 24, 2012, 09:37:25 am
heh pvp chars with 300 fa thats will be lolzy
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Kombajn on April 24, 2012, 10:13:21 am
Fa cooldown - 15 seconds... :D
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Perteks on April 24, 2012, 10:24:56 am
Its 1 min, or 30s with medic perk
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 24, 2012, 01:41:51 pm
The Idea would add something to do after max but the HP limit should be capped at say 300 to prevent 40 minute TB encounters wouldnt really hurt to try this in a future wipe seeing as how its all gonna be reset
actually even tb trap with 3 lets say 600 hp chars and *accidentally trapped* 1 - 2 300-600 hp guy(s) cant take longer than 10 min i think. there is no npc in enco, and each got 30 sec turn.

maybe i m wrong, tell me please why 40min. all points can be usefull in moving lvl cap to some lvl including hp and perks.

There is no point to a universal char or endless grinding.

why the hell i need 8 alts to comfortable gaming ? (sciencing, repairing, killing, hunting, lockpicking, doctor/fa, sneaker/scout and other)

Lol.. lvl 24 is enough, we got more HP and 1 more perk :/
And I was totally sure before wipe that lvl cap stay low as 21.. (6 hours to lvl up or even less)
why ? actually 24 lvl give some good point to my sp, i got 32x3 to invest some in lockpick or fighting skill for my universal character. ( which have 61 hp :( )
We got lvl cap raised by 3 lvls, we got one additional perk and skill points.
At the moment one character can be all in one crafter as there is no profession limits anymore. And I think that this is fair enough.
Having lvl cap at 40 would just make all characters almost the same as you would have enough SP to raise many of your skills up to 200%. This is even worse then having several of alts.



this is great, alts is pain for me and some players, alt for quarry, alt at each quarry, alt for checking companions, alt for trading, and more alts for any type of action, because even pvp char cant walk  from one to other city alone (no outdorsman)

lvl cap to 40lvl? sure and perk every 3lvl ;D
so now everyone would just make insta powerbuild and you will start crying omg nerf bg they killed me and i can do shit with my assualt crafter! nerf bg nerf bg, nerf gatling nerf gatling...;]

let me give you some feedback what will happen if they will increase lvl cap :

13-14perks :
1.more crit 2.more crit 3.spray and prey 4.lg 5.lg 6. lg 7.brof 8.better critical 9. even tougher 10. brd 11.brd 12.brd 13. man of steel 14. stonewall ;D
370hp 12ap bonehead 21% and lots of anty crits perks ;]
now tell me how did your even 240hp sniper can handle this build? :D (stonewall + bonehead + ca helmet + 10ag) you cant knock me donw

still uber building ? if skill % gonna be capped at 200% fighters can be usefull just because of uber quantiny of fighting perks, which is easy to make 2 perk *trees* - where one is damage and second is critical, and each one closing other.

heh pvp chars with 300 fa thats will be lolzy

why the hell chars and gaming in fonline gonna require alting forever ? i dont think with 40 lvl cap there gonna be alot snipers with 1 str or melee chars with 1 int.

Fa cooldown - 15 seconds... :D

if cap skill at 200% fa cd with max skill gonna be about 1 min with medic perk
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Kombajn on April 24, 2012, 01:46:43 pm
Hmm...strange I do have a character, who can: craft almost everything, dig minerals, fight in PVE, trade and make quests.
But if you need 5 alts to do so, then this is your business.

Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 24, 2012, 01:58:50 pm
Hmm...strange I do have a character, who can: craft almost everything, dig minerals, fight in PVE, trade and make quests.
But if you need 5 alts to do so, then this is your business.
i have character which can work at quarry, completed all quests, craft all about explosives, have 150 barter, can lead 5 melee mercs, can shoot abit (have 100sg), can heal himself and mercs, craft 10 metal parts per time, lockpick some boxes at ruin areas, can carry 75 kgs (149 with owerweiht), can science minor guns to get metal parts/alloys/ep, and can repair up to 85-90% from 40-50. and i have no alts.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Kombajn on April 24, 2012, 02:19:04 pm
So I dont understand why you have created this topic.

If you want to participate in some PVP just make a SECOND character.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 24, 2012, 02:55:54 pm
So I dont understand why you have created this topic.

If you want to participate in some PVP just make a SECOND character.

I want to science at maximum resources gain, want to my mercs have hp like merc leader mercs have, want to have 10 luck instead of 1, not 61hp at 24 lvl (each npc in wasteland have more hp), i want to be able to make explosives, dont be killed at trap, shoot with brof, kill some npc by myself, craft 10 alloys per time and mine not 20resources per time but more, i want this game be available to play not by 10 characters but by 1, at all i want to steal from npc and sneak at bh mine, lockipick at glow and have some damage resist, didnt get killed by 1 nade in ncr, and many others.

I dont understand people which use alot alts, doo tc, when system is so bad, and whining about it.

I m making proposition to make game better, not creating alts and gathering gauss, avengers and gatlings.

I even cant find no new bugs, which previous session was like 50+, some minor and some high.

Thank to fonline team they fixed alot bugs, implemented new crafting system and other, but why to keep lvl cap at 24 ?
I can max 1 skill to 300, second skill at 150 and 3rd at 120, all other - 10-20%, non playable char at all.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: RavenousRat on April 24, 2012, 03:00:15 pm
I want to science at maximum resources gain, want to my mercs have hp like merc leader mercs have, want to have 10 luck instead of 1, not 61hp at 24 lvl (each npc in wasteland have more hp), i want to be able to make explosives, dont be killed at trap, shoot with brof, kill some npc by myself, craft 10 alloys per time and mine not 20resources per time but more, i want this game be available to play not by 10 characters but by 1, at all i want to steal from npc and sneak at bh mine, lockipick at glow and have some damage resist, didnt get killed by 1 nade in ncr, and many others.
I want button "kill all" and invulnerability like at Sha Enin.
And Sha Enin skin.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Kombajn on April 24, 2012, 03:07:46 pm
I want to science at maximum resources gain, want to my mercs have hp like merc leader mercs have, want to have 10 luck instead of 1, not 61hp at 24 lvl (each npc in wasteland have more hp), i want to be able to make explosives, dont be killed at trap, shoot with brof, kill some npc by myself, craft 10 alloys per time and mine not 20resources per time but more, i want this game be available to play not by 10 characters but by 1, at all i want to steal from npc and sneak at bh mine, lockipick at glow and have some damage resist, didnt get killed by 1 nade in ncr, and many others.


There is an option. Run F2.

Everybody wants all in one character. But due to system there is no chance to implement such a thing. Actually I can play one character, but you must choose what kind f character you want to be. Which is kinda role playing. If there is a possibility to use alts, people are using them, this is simple.

Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 24, 2012, 03:28:51 pm
what is that option?

and everyone wants to have all in 1 character - why you against it ?
i m all for removing lvl cap at all, see no point in low lvl cap at all. uberpowered pkers in safe towns which able to kill town alone? why not, seems other players can have same characters, wish abit different build which is able to defend town/themself.

each newbie gonna get shot ? how ? look at ncr, there is no players at all. in *unsafe* town chance to meet pker is 5%, like weapon destroy with 10 luck and 200%+ weapon skill.

seems all other just killing npc/exploiting exploits to get caps/avengers/gatling lasers for tc/pvp or crafting at tents.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Kombajn on April 24, 2012, 03:36:09 pm
I am not against this. But this is unreal at the moment. If you will be able to play only one character there will be always some group of people who avoid this. And that is why we have a system like this.

I would like to try the system you wrote, but this will not gonna happen.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 24, 2012, 03:40:48 pm
I am not against this. But this is unreal at the moment. If you will be able to play only one character there will be always some group of people who avoid this. And that is why we have a system like this.

I would like to try the system you wrote, but this will not gonna happen.
I dont see point in thing like keeping lvl cap at 24 lvl just because 1 tc gang and few polish no lifers gonna make 40 uber bg alts, 40 uber ew alts and 40 uber sneaker alts. this is such a joke players cant play like they wish just because of some % of retarded people at server. what server gonna loose if one uber proxy/fast relog/400 alts faction gonna have all tc towns ?
rework tc, give chance to simple gamers, forget about jerks.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: RavenousRat on April 24, 2012, 03:51:29 pm
40 uber bg alts, 40 uber ew alts and 40 uber sneaker alts.
Far in the future, there will be domination type of PvP or whatever it called. There will be limited number of players entering that stuff without possibility to return after death (I hope), then fast relogs and AltForTC387563475 will be useless, Mabus won't be able to do something there alone, and you'll need real people 1:1 in comparison to number of players (if it'll be RT-only). I hope devs will do that some day, then there will be a possibility to have adequate PvP, without worrying that if you kill that guy, there will be his "brother" who will enter from WM, and then another brother, etc.
For those, who don't like PvP, PvE quests can be done by the same way: enter instance with a party once and can't return if escape, if die - can't return, no one else will be able to join you, etc. And number of characters is limited, so pure science-alt001, repair-alt002 won't be effective, as you'll have less normal characters to beat quest.
Right now (and may be later too) the game missing all that content, so there's no reason to make possibility to have one character.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 24, 2012, 03:54:33 pm
Far in the future, there will be domination type of PvP or whatever it called. There will be limited number of players entering that stuff without possibility to return after death (I hope), then fast relogs and AltForTC387563475 will be useless, Mabus won't be able to do something there alone, and you'll need real people 1:1 in comparison to number of players (if it'll be RT-only). I hope devs will do that some day, then there will be a possibility to have adequate PvP, without worrying that if you kill that guy, there will be his "brother" who will enter from WM, and then another brother, etc.
For those, who don't like PvP, PvE quests can be done by the same way: enter instance with a party once and can't return if escape, if die - can't return, no one else will be able to join you, etc. And number of characters is limited, so pure science-alt001, repair-alt002 won't be effective, as you'll have less normal characters to beat quest.
Right now (and may be later too) the game missing all that content, so there's no reason to make possibility to have one character.

this is what i m waiting for, i v seen that good *news* topic with upcoming new tc sytem, which can make game better, and uber proxy/alt based gaming gonna have fail. this is one more *new hope* episode in fonline for making no lvl cap.

also lvl up system need some rework too, but this is other story.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: DeputyDope on April 24, 2012, 04:30:43 pm
level cap @ 40 is one of the stupidest ideas i heard in a while.

it will take AGES to level it and it's actually FASTER to level lower level alts then just big one.

it's not like leveling ain't extremely boring as it is.

creating level 40 alts will make game balance even worse.

Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 24, 2012, 04:33:51 pm
level cap @ 40 is one of the stupidest ideas i heard in a while.

it will take AGES to level it and it's actually FASTER to level lower level alts then just big one.
Gooby, please, leave this topic. Go and troll someone in ncr, u are usefull there with ur rape-steal-insult-retard team.

Your posts is like a way you rule in your tunnel snakes gang, i even dont need to know your opinion, seems other people dont need to see what you post too.
I was able to have 99 lvl prev session, if you can kill/craft/fa/doc and just trolling in ncr by stolen names characters - your way.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: DeputyDope on April 24, 2012, 04:39:11 pm
first of all i don't know if you figured out or not, but this is a FORUM, you don't like my opinion make a blog in which you post your shit. if you're looking for people to lick your ass, again make a blog in which you moderate the posts. simple, innit? if you don't need to know my opinion, then why the fuck did you post on a forum anyway?

let's not turn this into gang issues, alrighty?

and may i ask, how did you have level 99 alt previous session? divine intervention?

ps: i modified my post, you might wanna check it out.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Wichura on April 24, 2012, 04:48:15 pm
I want to science at maximum resources gain, want to my mercs have hp like merc leader mercs have, want to have 10 luck instead of 1, not 61hp at 24 lvl (each npc in wasteland have more hp), i want to be able to make explosives, dont be killed at trap, shoot with brof, kill some npc by myself, craft 10 alloys per time and mine not 20resources per time but more, i want this game be available to play not by 10 characters but by 1, at all i want to steal from npc and sneak at bh mine, lockipick at glow and have some damage resist, didnt get killed by 1 nade in ncr, and many others.
And I want a pony. Or at least combat brahmin with lazors in eyes.

I dont understand people which use alot alts, doo tc, when system is so bad, and whining about it.
Adapt or die, they say. So I adapted - 9 high-specialized alts so far, including main lumberjack, specialized in being Jack-of-all-trades.

I m making proposition to make game better, not creating alts and gathering gauss, avengers and gatlings.
Thank you for participation. Now sit here near me and watch your suggestion is going to drown between "they killed me, nerf it!" threads.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 24, 2012, 04:56:47 pm
first of all i don't know if you figured out or not, but this is a FORUM, you don't like my opinion make a blog in which you post your shit. if you're looking for people to lick your ass, again make a blog in which you moderate the posts. simple, innit? if you don't need to know my opinion, then why the fuck did you post on a forum anyway?

let's not turn this into gang issues, alrighty?

and may i ask, how did you have level 99 alt previous session? divine intervention?

ps: i modified my post, you might wanna check it out.
and what is usefull in you ? you at forum ? gooby please, make own topic/forum/web site/blog and troll someone ?
what usefull i can pick up from ur post ? and what if you cant read and use any chance to troll ? i have more than 1 kk exp, seems enought for more than 21 lvl. use imagination. dont post here is you dont want to turn this peacefull suggestion into gang issues :D
And I want a pony. Or at least combat brahmin with lazors in eyes.
Adapt or die, they say. So I adapted - 9 high-specialized alts so far, including main lumberjack, specialized in being Jack-of-all-trades.
Thank you for participation. Now sit here near me and watch your suggestion is going to drown between "they killed me, nerf it!" threads.

you want a pony, brahmin with laser in eyes - make suggestion, make at least some server, create 3d model or sprite, and maybe you ll see this in game, i m not talking about 800% skill and unlimited ammo, and weapon selection like in GTA4

same i can say about each changes in game, am i whining about i cant lvl up above 24 or i m just suggesting feature or just posting my opinion about level cap. alting may be useless after lvl cap remove - cant make 99 lvl - make 9 24 lvl characters which can have same skills like in this session, i dont know who againt thing you have 9 alts and remember all theyr names.

this great suggestions about gatling/avenger crits is awesome, too bad i dont use this weapon. i like where i sit, i ll stay here ;)
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Jotisz on April 24, 2012, 05:06:38 pm
Just a side note to make both skilled and non skilled chars end with a perk, lvl 40 wouldn't be good. It needs to be possible to divide the last level with 3 and 4 too. So possible levels could be 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84.... etc. What I like about current end level that it ends with a perk no matter of traits. Although its still relative fast to reach the last level but now we can get companions and get them to lvl 24 since they respawn. Its still ok to get a mercs/slave and train that one to lvl 24 just needs carefulness they die often due to friendly or non friendly players. I lost most of my dogs due to friendly players who were trying to save me from my own dogs.....
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: DeputyDope on April 24, 2012, 05:08:25 pm
and what is usefull in you ? you at forum ? gooby please, make own topic/forum/web site/blog and troll someone ?
please keep "gang issues" outta this topic. you don't like me? fine, make a ragetopic on "gang issues" with the title "DEPUTYDOPE IS SUPER LAME NOOB!!!!!!!111oneone" and stop polluting your own thread.

what usefull i can pick up from ur post ? and what if you cant read and use any chance to troll ? i have more than 1 kk exp, seems enought for more than 21 lvl. use imagination. dont post here is you dont want to turn this peacefull suggestion into gang issues :D
hey, you really think that making suggestions without thinking beforehand makes you more useful?

as i said before this level cap remove will make game balance worse, and make this game less fun. everyone will have 1000HP, all perks, and all guns skills maxed out. what the fuck is the point?


same i can say about each changes in game, am i whining about i cant lvl up above 24 or i m just suggesting feature or just posting my opinion about level cap. alting may be useless after lvl cap remove - cant make 99 lvl - make 9 24 lvl characters which can have same skills like in this session, i dont know who againt thing you have 9 alts and remember all theyr names.

really, you want jack of all trades character? play fallout singleplayer. this game's fun comes from alting and trying out different builds. making all characters the same will kill this game.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 24, 2012, 05:25:27 pm
Just a side note to make both skilled and non skilled chars end with a perk, lvl 40 wouldn't be good. It needs to be possible to divide the last level with 3 and 4 too. So possible levels could be 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84.... etc. What I like about current end level that it ends with a perk no matter of traits. Although its still relative fast to reach the last level but now we can get companions and get them to lvl 24 since they respawn. Its still ok to get a mercs/slave and train that one to lvl 24 just needs carefulness they die often due to friendly or non friendly players. I lost most of my dogs due to friendly players who were trying to save me from my own dogs.....

also this idea with perks / perk per 4 lvl / more rare spawn of perks can be good too.

i think
1            9            17            25            33
2            10           18            26           34
3            11           19            27           35
4p          12p          20p          28p          36p 
5            13           21            29           37
6            14           22            30           38
7            15           23            31           39
8p          16p          24p          32p          40p

perk table allows just 10 perks, and if remove skilled and add back perk +1 to special (gifted) this can make perk/lvl/special/skill% more balanced, each character, even doctor can be defend able against big gunner (because of 2min special, and i personally gonna choose +7 other special points against some other perks.

mercs this era with caps abit useless, but for example melee, which price is cheap and unarmed mutants is really great.
if mercs gonna have ability to lvl up to 40 too, this can be great for character (not merc leader, which have special build)
make them more usefull in fight, i think mutant 40 lvl can have about 700 hp, which makes him really good defender against unwanter encounters while trawelling in afk mode.

or even perk table up to bigger lvl cap (60 or more) can be various, and if leave perk table with 3 lvl per perk and add system where 1 perk tree close other (for example crits close high based damage) or etc.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: maciek83 on April 24, 2012, 08:38:43 pm
600+ hp ? please... current hp levels are quite balanced , more skill points? i think its better when there is not too much of them so you must carefully choose what you really need - thats what creating character is all about, more perks? what for? so you can have all perk 'trees' - thats nonsens
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Jotisz on April 24, 2012, 08:52:36 pm
I think it would take a lot of time personally I think current system the devs made is quite ok. I would welcome more levels so I can see that I'm not just getting exp but actually gaining something since unlike most of the players I like to level characters. Usually different ways. But after max level there is not much goal in gaining more exp so I usually start a new char or if I really like that char I try to make the leveling as long as possible.
Personally I think instead of bigger level caps I would prefer something that would promote gaining exp after last levels, like an ability to give away experience through an NPC quest so from those who take it one gets the extra exp that the player gives up. However I gone off topic with this and if I remember something similar was suggested already. And probably would take up too much resources from the devs there are some stuffs they already trying to implement and repair (like that domination mod which sounded quite fun but didn't made it in).
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: The JokeR on April 24, 2012, 09:09:42 pm
the only solution is to add another 6 - 12 levels .. With the introduction of new perks (small but pleasant things, for example), and make it possible to choose only one (24 + = old closed, 0 skill points at a level hit points are not given).
What do we have?
-Small but pleasant things (for example 10 15 20% chance that you will be able to avoid an unwanted meeting in wasterland)
Save-while-would be available at the moment balance (compared with the proposals of the +30 levels, which clearly will be ignored by the administration ;D)
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 24, 2012, 10:17:17 pm
600+ hp ? please... current hp levels are quite balanced , more skill points? i think its better when there is not too much of them so you must carefully choose what you really need - thats what creating character is all about, more perks? what for? so you can have all perk 'trees' - thats nonsens
1 en 0 hp per lvl is not that great, i m mostly talking about lvl cap remove, and if this can happen ( for exaple i post about 40 lvl cap all that time ) hp at 40 lvl max can be at (with current lifegiver) 59+9+5x40+20+30+40 just 400 +-, i misscalculated abit, anyway ;)
about sp - more sp better, game is not about character creating but about gaming, i m started topic because of no possibility to make some universal character, and why that so bad when player can have alot perks ? or you mean it is bad when at 40 lvl player can choose between critical (5+10+20%+sd +...) or alot brd and etc.
I think it would take a lot of time personally I think current system the devs made is quite ok. I would welcome more levels so I can see that I'm not just getting exp but actually gaining something since unlike most of the players I like to level characters. Usually different ways. But after max level there is not much goal in gaining more exp so I usually start a new char or if I really like that char I try to make the leveling as long as possible.
Personally I think instead of bigger level caps I would prefer something that would promote gaining exp after last levels, like an ability to give away experience through an NPC quest so from those who take it one gets the extra exp that the player gives up. However I gone off topic with this and if I remember something similar was suggested already. And probably would take up too much resources from the devs there are some stuffs they already trying to implement and repair (like that domination mod which sounded quite fun but didn't made it in).
for sure system devs make is ok, but it is ok for 24 lvl cap. dont treat me wrong, but i think this lvl cap sound like lvl cap in fo3, which is not great :D about leveling now - there is few cast: fighters, which easy to lvl up, crafters - which can raise exp from 1 lvl just by crafting, few doctors, few lockpickers and etc, for me leveling is hard before lvl cap - then i get in x amount bonus which i cant use. just by crafting raised up to 670k exp this session.
never heard about domination mod or i dont remember :(
the only solution is to add another 6 - 12 levels .. With the introduction of new perks (small but pleasant things, for example), and make it possible to choose only one (24 + = old closed, 0 skill points at a level hit points are not given).
What do we have?
-Small but pleasant things (for example 10 15 20% chance that you will be able to avoid an unwanted meeting in wasterland)
Save-while-would be available at the moment balance (compared with the proposals of the +30 levels, which clearly will be ignored by the administration ;D)
i d like to love removed / capped at some level character level because of bonus sp, which is usefull all the time, some perks and dream of fonliner - gifted trait :D
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: maciek83 on April 24, 2012, 10:23:52 pm
well now gifted is the most retarded idea. everyone would have to take it
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 24, 2012, 10:27:39 pm
well now gifted is the most retarded idea. everyone would have to take it
i heard gifted was removed because of uberpower, but what the point for crafter or doctor loose 7 special ? just because *big guys* in tc gonna easyly kill each other ? and everyone would have it in traits, is this that bad ? :D
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: snailbeast on April 25, 2012, 12:08:46 pm
It surely is.

What`s up with trait for everyone? What a point? What a point of Small Frame trait then?I can get 6 usefull points just about for nothing = I will use it.

Why not make everyone be 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 allperks 300allskills build? they will alt anyway...
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Malice Song on April 25, 2012, 12:59:28 pm
I don't quite get what's the point of the suggestion. I don't mean that in a condescending way, I literally don't get what you're aiming for.

If it's to get rid or diminish the use of alts for yourself and/or others, then the problem is not so much the system itself, but the reluctance to accept restrictions as a means to enhance gameplay (as in choosing a role, sticking to it and rely on other players' help to adress one's own weaknesses). Obviously not quite that simple, I get that, not enough players to realistically seek them out for help, spiraling effect from people not wanting to fall behind in the alt race and for some players it's simply more fun to explore several options and/or they simply don't care to interact with other players. Point being, in almost all cases a leveling systems brings restrictions and builds, that are more or less specialised. That's not a bad thing for those who choose to stick to that, on the contrary. Nothing about that is inherently broken and there is no need to adress that apart from finetuning the system, like has happened with the lift of limitations on crafting professions. Furthermore, I'd suspect that, no matter how miniscule the limitations inherent in the system would be, there would always be a non-zero percentage of players that strive to circumvent even those restrictions, resulting in alternative builds. Lowering maximum skill percentage doesn't really counter that as much as it takes away from specialised builds which some players chose to play.

If you wanted to adress that, on the other hand, and the aim is to actually create builds that can do pretty much everything, then that would not necessarily be an invalid suggestion, but at that point you may as well suggest getting rid of levels alltogether and give every player the same finalized max level build at creation and remove the whole grinding aspect. After all, if you set the level cap high enough that similarities between builds outweigh differences, there's really nothing special about leveling up apart from reaching some arbitrary numbers, whereas the way it is now you're working towards a specific end result and every level is going to set you apart from the other players a little bit more. So the question then becomes: do I want to remove the leveling system entirely? In itself this is a valid question, since it would focus the gaming experience more to a skillbased one where players face off against each other on equal terms. However, there's three problems with that:

 


Also for the record: with the current levelcap I wouldn't take Gifted fwiw.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: maciek83 on April 25, 2012, 02:54:30 pm
you wouldnt take gifted?
you could put all bonus 7 points into inteligence and have your skill points back and even MORE ,and put the where you want. thats why it was cosidered by many a 'cheat' trait
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 25, 2012, 03:12:39 pm
It surely is.

What`s up with trait for everyone? What a point? What a point of Small Frame trait then?I can get 6 usefull points just about for nothing = I will use it.

Why not make everyone be 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 allperks 300allskills build? they will alt anyway...

whats wrong with good build ? make character have trait -20 to starter special points and replication right after death with full hp at same place sounds more resonable ? :D ;) gifted and small frame is way best perks at all i think, also no lvl cap, and cap to % skill is what about i m talking mainly
I don't quite get what's the point of the suggestion. I don't mean that in a condescending way, I literally don't get what you're aiming for.

If it's to get rid or diminish the use of alts for yourself and/or others, then the problem is not so much the system itself, but the reluctance to accept restrictions as a means to enhance gameplay (as in choosing a role, sticking to it and rely on other players' help to adress one's own weaknesses). Obviously not quite that simple, I get that, not enough players to realistically seek them out for help, spiraling effect from people not wanting to fall behind in the alt race and for some players it's simply more fun to explore several options and/or they simply don't care to interact with other players. Point being, in almost all cases a leveling systems brings restrictions and builds, that are more or less specialised. That's not a bad thing for those who choose to stick to that, on the contrary. Nothing about that is inherently broken and there is no need to adress that apart from finetuning the system, like has happened with the lift of limitations on crafting professions. Furthermore, I'd suspect that, no matter how miniscule the limitations inherent in the system would be, there would always be a non-zero percentage of players that strive to circumvent even those restrictions, resulting in alternative builds. Lowering maximum skill percentage doesn't really counter that as much as it takes away from specialised builds which some players chose to play.

If you wanted to adress that, on the other hand, and the aim is to actually create builds that can do pretty much everything, then that would not necessarily be an invalid suggestion, but at that point you may as well suggest getting rid of levels alltogether and give every player the same finalized max level build at creation and remove the whole grinding aspect. After all, if you set the level cap high enough that similarities between builds outweigh differences, there's really nothing special about leveling up apart from reaching some arbitrary numbers, whereas the way it is now you're working towards a specific end result and every level is going to set you apart from the other players a little bit more. So the question then becomes: do I want to remove the leveling system entirely? In itself this is a valid question, since it would focus the gaming experience more to a skillbased one where players face off against each other on equal terms. However, there's three problems with that:

  • Unless you can guarantee that PvP is going to take place in equal numbers, one side would always have an inherent advantage, thus rendering the whole idea of skillbased combat a bit moot or at least taint it to some extent.
  • Player numbers would dwindle even more, since a big part of the Fallout identity would be removed. In itself the latter isn't a bad thing, but seeing as this is technically a mod of Fallout 2, that's where potential new players come from and anything that removes core concepts of the main game is going to alienate the majority of new players.
  • Not to shit on everything here, but seriously, once all players play an almost identical build, how compelling are the gameplay mechanics really?
 


Also for the record: with the current levelcap I wouldn't take Gifted fwiw.

i m not aiming to remove alts, it is almost impossible, or possible by ban waves or etc. i m about to make conversation about point of leave lvl cap and point of remove lvl cap. gifted trait is such a part of each normal character in fo2, which makes character at least play able in that game
actually i cant imagine fo2 without gauss and apa, because i even dont remember what i used to use 1st time i was playing.
fonline is totally different from fo2 and fo1, and i m not asking for add apa and gauss rifle back to game, actually i see no point in pvp and small point in pve, so who knows.
you wouldnt take gifted?
you could put all bonus 7 points into inteligence and have your skill points back and even MORE ,and put the where you want. thats why it was cosidered by many a 'cheat' trait
i think if gifted was in game last wipe and before, and just imagine that devs removed gifted this season - i think 15 topics with *why i cant make normal character* gonna be spawned.
most cheat skill is bg as i see (sg and ew too) and cheat perk silent death is good perk, wonder why i have no sneaker and no fighter char. maybe game is not just about killing, why nefr crafters/rp guys/doctors if pvp alt is *uberpowered*, i even dont spend time for pvp because each faction have own problem and some of them dislike each other, what for doo i need that problem with 24 hour tc or pvp flame war and rage/flamewar topics ? :D
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Malice Song on April 25, 2012, 03:20:41 pm
Not quite, I have IN 10 and Skilled. Taking Gifted will reduce my SP. Bonus points would be nice, obviously, but I'm more interested in SP. That said, I'm obviously an outlier and wouldn't argue for anyone not to take Gifted. Was more of a sidenote.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: maciek83 on April 25, 2012, 03:37:00 pm
well ok ,you are right . specialist character would not want gifted ,but who cares for em  :)
its balanced pvp that matters here the most.
i understand discusion about gifted is a side note ;)
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Gob on April 29, 2012, 03:53:56 pm
Go play on TLA mk2 they got level 40 there.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 29, 2012, 05:52:00 pm
Go play on TLA mk2 they got level 40 there.
What ? I dont get you :D
This same like i can suggest you pick up for avatar empty space and empty space for signature, this is my best suggestion, by this you ll make forum better ( i mean your avatar and signature suck ) ;)

well ok ,you are right . specialist character would not want gifted ,but who cares for em  :)
its balanced pvp that matters here the most.
i understand discusion about gifted is a side note ;)

But what the point in pvp ? does all players here only doo pvp ? i think 30% players here is from tc factions
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Elmehdi on April 30, 2012, 04:21:16 pm
Go play on TLA mk2 they got level 40 there.

But it's russian.

2155 (http://www.wasteland2155.net/) will have no lvl cap at all. It's still not open for players but seems quite promising.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: The JokeR on April 30, 2012, 05:25:50 pm
No lvl cup? Not 4 me, but nice reason to play  ;D (from begin) imagine 366 lvl characters, with all perks like stone wall..
But this server has no future. At some point, begin to appear when the players do not leave a chance for beginners. At this point, the influx of new players over. Who is left? Those who by this time somehow closer to the mind of this most * punisher *, and the last.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 30, 2012, 06:17:27 pm
But it's russian.

2155 (http://www.wasteland2155.net/) will have no lvl cap at all. It's still not open for players but seems quite promising.
hehe, wasteland 2155 look promising, but i dont think there gonna be more than 30 players online :( i ll take a chance there when that server gonna be online :D
No lvl cup? Not 4 me, but nice reason to play  ;D (from begin) imagine 366 lvl characters, with all perks like stone wall..
But this server has no future. At some point, begin to appear when the players do not leave a chance for beginners. At this point, the influx of new players over. Who is left? Those who by this time somehow closer to the mind of this most * punisher *, and the last.
lol what you talking ? what point for other player to know other players lvls? where is no chance to n00bs ? :D i dont get you

there is no 1lvl/99lvl challenge. if you have 1lvl or 10 lvl - ok , 56 lvl - ok
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Elmehdi on April 30, 2012, 11:22:49 pm
No lvl cup? Not 4 me, but nice reason to play  ;D (from begin) imagine 366 lvl characters, with all perks like stone wall..
But this server has no future. At some point, begin to appear when the players do not leave a chance for beginners. At this point, the influx of new players over. Who is left? Those who by this time somehow closer to the mind of this most * punisher *, and the last.

Do you really think that there is a difference for a newbie wheather he is killed by lvl 15 or lvl 50 guy? Just trust me - there is no difference.

hehe, wasteland 2155 look promising, but i dont think there gonna be more than 30 players online i ll take a chance there when that server gonna be online

If you don't count dual/tripple logs on 2238 it will seem like there is something like 100 players here anyway. 30 is not that bad number - I would definitely prefer 30 dedicated rolepayers than 9999999 nameless trolls as on 2238 atm.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Ox-Skull on May 01, 2012, 09:22:53 am
That'd be sweet if the lvl-cap was raised to 28.
Id be able to take a few more support perks, if that were the case.

Do people agree that a higher lvl cap like 28 or 32 would decrease the need for alts.

It'd make my character more versatile.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: DocAN. on May 01, 2012, 02:27:15 pm
More levels = less alts.

Who would create new alts if he could have all at one?

All crafting proffessions, thief, barter, looter, lockpicker, etc.

BG/SG/EW/Melee/Throwing/Unarmed - players will have 2 maybe 3 main figthing skills and few otheres which will allow them to use diferent weapon when they got bored.

Again more lvls will decrease number of alts.

With current system max HP is 290 at lvl 99 it would be 665 hp. With more HP the fights would last longer.

More HP will help vs critical hits with the expetion of Gatling crits.

I dont see why couldnt we try it. Not many players left in this game and no lvl cap (99lvl) system should bring new blood in to the server.



Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: T-888 on May 01, 2012, 02:47:54 pm
More advantage for players like me , set up triple log , two mercenary leaders with 8 mercenaries both of course have radios , find enormous , big encounters that NPC's get's bugged up , freeze and don't attack you because of the many targets ( mercenaries and 2 alts ) with their simple AI. Level up to 24 in 1 hour and less than 30 minutes ( let's say i level up 3 hours a day and 2 times in a week , what would happen after 2 months ?). Then there would be age of really hardcore builds with almost no str , because most of the penalties could be balanced out with 300 weapon skill.

I'm not saying this to sound badass , but this is how i would " adapt " to all this.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: DocAN. on May 01, 2012, 02:50:26 pm
1ST is -25% try to balance -150% skill, add to this Doger perks on your enemie and have fun with your 1ST alt

Your 1ST alt will get instant KD and weapon drops
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: T-888 on May 01, 2012, 03:01:38 pm
1 ST is -20% , -40% or -60%  penalty can be balanced with pure skill points if we looking at real numbers , STR 3-4 ( or 2-3 if don't take small frame , so if we look at weapon requirements , builds and carry weight requirements were looking at maximum 100%- skill penalty for weapon usage that can be quite easily balanced if the build uses only torso shots - BG ) as much only to carry sufficient amount of equipment and even higher penalty can be balanced with higher perception witch you will have due to spare special points that are gained from a new dump stat called STR.

I'm sorry but it is how it is ...

Your 1ST alt will get instant KD and weapon drops

STR is the main stat for responsible for KD and weapon drops ? Source of information please. First time i hear this.

Don't know what are you talking about weapon drops , BUT Stonewall , bonehead , combat helmet , 10 endurance bonus equals to 100% protection against KD's and maybe 1% ( well when i tested all this i never got KO'd with all previously mentioned bonuses , but maybe there is 1% chance that i haven't experienced yet , ;D ) to get KO'd , i have personally tested all this.

Then again if 99 cap , we would of course have sneakers with always 300% sneak skill achievable with a lot less INT ( another passive dumpstat for metagamers ). Some perks like ghost and features like wall bonuses and barrels would become obsolete , it is because sneak is capped at 300% skill no matter what bonuses exceeds that and only then penalties are applied ( armor , weapon etc. etc. )

Source of information http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,19266.0.html
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: DocAN. on May 01, 2012, 05:53:48 pm
Just tell me how you will take stonewall with 1st...

And if you didnt hear about something doesnt mean  that its not working.

Ill not speak with You anymore "MR. WiseGuy"
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Roachor on May 01, 2012, 06:04:46 pm
If you have less str than your weapon requirement you drop it a lot, if you have less than 10 str/10 end stonewall doesn't give 100% kd resist.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: T-888 on May 01, 2012, 06:23:07 pm
Ill not speak with You anymore "MR. WiseGuy"

And I am supposed to be arrogant ?

Did you read at least half of what i wrote ? Did i tell you that big gunners will run around with 1 strength in case if they want to use stonewall ? I don't create things out of blue air , sorry.

That is just one perk and any build in fact can do well without it , it's actually situational and a personal preference. I have to say , it's easy to use jet without any buffout and obtain another extra special point that isn't needed for even agility anymore in case if str becomes irrelevant.

Oh excuse me , that i don't want to blindly believe anything that comes from a player that don't know basic things like how much penalty str applies. It proves any further information you prrovide is just not reliable , so i don't want to hear your false information as some stated truth without any fact , logical explanation or source of information , in that case the information most likely comes from your imagination.

If people could manage their stupidity , i wouldn't have to manage my arrogance.

If you have less str than your weapon requirement you drop it a lot, if you have less than 10 str/10 end stonewall doesn't give 100% kd resist.

Yes it does , you can test it yourself.

6 base str , 10 endurance , bonehead , combat helmet bonus and stonewall. Not only against KD's but for KO's.

Without bonehead , you will still get KO'D once in a while.


6 base str , 10 endurance , combat helmet bonus , stonewall , but no bonehead. See the difference. Of course i have to tell it for safety otherwise more false information will be provided , there's only difference in KO's with the change of roll.

When i say , i have made tests. I don't lie.

weapon drops

I will test this , i hope your right.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Nice_Boat on May 01, 2012, 06:40:29 pm
This thread is going nowhere because raising lvl cap in itself is a change to basic gamedesign and as such would imply changing other shit around. This leads to new issues like introduction of lvl caps for perks, possibly reduction of new SP after a certain lvl, managing HP (does it keep increasing until 99, is it hardcapped or is there a softcap meaning your HP stops growing after a certain lvl etc.) and possibly 91231 things I missed right now. Obviously, certain solutions won't fare too well with alts being allowed and the way the rest of the game is functioning, ie. capping HP or combat perks would make leveling up to get a crafting profession completely unviable because it'd be way easier to make a level 10 crafter from a scratch. It's a TREMENDOUSLY complicated issue and most of you are trying to tackle it in a childish manner, which makes this suggestion even less likely to be implemented. Furthermore, keep in mind that the devs have just come up with a mechanical overhaul as to skills/perks/levelcap and all the assorted stuff, so do you really think it'd be reasonable to yet again say "ah, fuck it" and start all over again? Balance doesn't come with frequent revolutionary changes, it comes with letting the game mature and making tweaks that aren't even noticeable for people who aren't much into metagame.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: T-888 on May 01, 2012, 06:44:41 pm
and possibly 91231 things I missed right now.

yep , i failed to make that point.

So what nice bot said.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on May 01, 2012, 07:01:20 pm
Do you really think that there is a difference for a newbie wheather he is killed by lvl 15 or lvl 50 guy? Just trust me - there is no difference.

If you don't count dual/tripple logs on 2238 it will seem like there is something like 100 players here anyway. 30 is not that bad number - I would definitely prefer 30 dedicated rolepayers than 9999999 nameless trolls as on 2238 atm.

I see no point to be so newbieish to be killed in encounter by 15 or 99 lvl countless times, it is even not possible with fonline mechanics
it is no difference in players number, because not all players you meet is pvp or rp or pk or trolls, i see difference in quality of players, and yes, 30 true-rp-monsters is way better than even online atm.
That'd be sweet if the lvl-cap was raised to 28.
Id be able to take a few more support perks, if that were the case.

Do people agree that a higher lvl cap like 28 or 32 would decrease the need for alts.

It'd make my character more versatile.

totally agree with this opinion, even 28 can make game expierence better, if this can be implemented with next update this can be great, i dont think all this game is about powerbuilding of character and gun skill
More advantage for players like me , set up triple log , two mercenary leaders with 8 mercenaries both of course have radios , find enormous , big encounters that NPC's get's bugged up , freeze and don't attack you because of the many targets ( mercenaries and 2 alts ) with their simple AI. Level up to 24 in 1 hour and less than 30 minutes ( let's say i level up 3 hours a day and 2 times in a week , what would happen after 2 months ?). Then there would be age of really hardcore builds with almost no str , because most of the penalties could be balanced out with 300 weapon skill.

I'm not saying this to sound badass , but this is how i would " adapt " to all this.
i see no problem in powerleveling, and where is problem in 1str pvp trolls ? i ll never take 1 str for crafter or miner. even with 300% gun skill and 99 lvl
More levels = less alts.

Who would create new alts if he could have all at one?

All crafting proffessions, thief, barter, looter, lockpicker, etc.

BG/SG/EW/Melee/Throwing/Unarmed - players will have 2 maybe 3 main figthing skills and few otheres which will allow them to use diferent weapon when they got bored.

Again more lvls will decrease number of alts.

With current system max HP is 290 at lvl 99 it would be 665 hp. With more HP the fights would last longer.

More HP will help vs critical hits with the expetion of Gatling crits.

I dont see why couldnt we try it. Not many players left in this game and no lvl cap (99lvl) system should bring new blood in to the server.




exatly what i m trying to tell. more lvl - more ways to invest sp, get all support special perks, reduce character planning - like sniper or doctor , now you can have sniper+doctor+sneaker+crafter in one char :D * not available atm, just talking about 99 lvl :D
This thread is going nowhere because raising lvl cap in itself is a change to basic gamedesign and as such would imply changing other shit around. This leads to new issues like introduction of lvl caps for perks, possibly reduction of new SP after a certain lvl, managing HP (does it keep increasing until 99, is it hardcapped or is there a softcap meaning your HP stops growing after a certain lvl etc.) and possibly 91231 things I missed right now. Obviously, certain solutions won't fare too well with alts being allowed and the way the rest of the game is functioning, ie. capping HP or combat perks would make leveling up to get a crafting profession completely unviable because it'd be way easier to make a level 10 crafter from a scratch. It's a TREMENDOUSLY complicated issue and most of you are trying to tackle it in a childish manner, which makes this suggestion even less likely to be implemented. Furthermore, keep in mind that the devs have just come up with a mechanical overhaul as to skills/perks/levelcap and all the assorted stuff, so do you really think it'd be reasonable to yet again say "ah, fuck it" and start all over again? Balance doesn't come with frequent revolutionary changes, it comes with letting the game mature and making tweaks that aren't even noticeable for people who aren't much into metagame.
oh, come on. where is balance atm ? any pvp character can kill any doctor, when in other mmorpg healer class can pwn party of fighters. what is point of keeping 24 lvl and getting satisfied by 8 perks + 1-10 int builds, MIN/MAX system in fonline is not balance, it is just MIN/MAX, i played by character with 200+ fa 200+ doc prev session, and i cant call him doctor, because it was sick to heal and play by that character at all (1 str 1 luck )
why to min max all features ?
and what the point of non-allowing 99lvl to play, no point to cap perks at all i think.
99 lvl allow you to think of build you make, if players gonna not exploit lvl-up perks but report - 99 lvl can be gained not by bugs and just by hard power or slow leveling.

just imagine level cap removed - what character you gonna make ? 1luck1str1en10in10ch10pe~~~ doctor ? or build which can be usefull in all situations at server.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Wipe on May 01, 2012, 07:44:50 pm
(...) in other mmorpg healer class can pwn party of fighters (...)

And you say it's good, huh? :P
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on May 01, 2012, 07:58:42 pm
And you say it's good, huh? :P
I m trying to say that doctor here can just heal once in 30 seconds with min/maxed skills, cant hunt, repair, and use all other skills.
actually not min maxed character can be good, i was playing about year by 1 character 21 lvl, was nice.

the main thing in all other mmorpg - get max vll and best gear. here - get alot gear and alot alts (for some players)
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: DocAN. on May 07, 2012, 04:46:43 pm
Not many players left in game, thats why we could try something new and remove lvl cap.

Main reason is that it will helps with alts problem and will force players to play fair.

I can imagine "whine" when someone will get ban on lvl 45  or something similar.

Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Chrupek on May 07, 2012, 06:41:32 pm
1. every troll/pvp pchar can affor insane FA skill
2. easy levelin up, using FA bot/script
3. AS ALWAYS: regular-casual players cry hard, but gangs can produce hoards of pvp chars.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: DocAN. on May 07, 2012, 07:01:14 pm
1. every troll/pvp pchar can affor insane FA skill
2. easy levelin up, using FA bot/script
3. AS ALWAYS: regular-casual players cry hard, but gangs can produce hoards of pvp chars.

1. so what? we have it already (max fa is 300 it gives 30sec CD, many this kind of Troll HtH alts are in game)
2. catched - banned
3. Where are this hoards of pvp chars? cant see any since a long time. I think you have no idea how long it will take to reach the lvl 99 (4850k)- long enough to get out of ammo/guns or get catched by gm while BOT-FA exping.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on May 07, 2012, 07:33:11 pm
1. every troll/pvp pchar can affor insane FA skill
2. easy levelin up, using FA bot/script
3. AS ALWAYS: regular-casual players cry hard, but gangs can produce hoards of pvp chars.
a. each troll gonna troll forever, game is not about players and trolls
b. it is banable, and bot is retarded at all. you ll get bored of 24hours fa for 50 lvl, and maybe gonna get brain damage and nightmares :D
3. big gangs can produce what they need, game is not about abuse and exploits
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Chrupek on May 07, 2012, 10:06:51 pm
b. it is banable, and bot is retarded at all. you ll get bored of 24hours fa for 50 lvl, and maybe gonna get brain damage and nightmares :D

You dont get it, that there is no need for your presence. thats why its called script. The only thing you need is to check from time to time, if you need pick some perk, redistribute SP. Yeah, GM checking your base, and seeing char beating mutie and healing him - ban! thats how it works:)))
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on May 07, 2012, 10:12:30 pm
You dont get it, that there is no need for your presence. thats why its called script. The only thing you need is to check from time to time, if you need pick some perk, redistribute SP. Yeah, GM checking your base, and seeing char beating mutie and healing him - ban! thats how it works:)))
i was using bot to lvl up 9 chars in one time in one party in lineage 2, it was sick, even start bot to lvl up was borring.
i hope some players gonna report/send bot software to devs can fix that problem in fonline :D
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: RavenousRat on May 07, 2012, 10:20:09 pm
Just make 2nd XP from FA equal to 0, if there were no other XP source.
So if you're using FA and getting at least any XP, you need to get XP from crafting/killing/quest/outdoorsman/any other skill usage except FA, to be able to earn XP from FA again.

The same can be done with crafting, but there can be a limit something like 1k XP from crafting max, then you need to get XP from something else to be able to get XP from crafting again.

The same can be done with killing grinding :D Killed mobs on 2k XP, go and XP on something else to continue grinding.

There can be XP limits on everything, to force players earn XP by different ways and totally disable botting.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Chrupek on May 07, 2012, 11:31:54 pm
but its wrong. I have char with low AG, and no weapon skills, and im 14lvl now, thanks to FA (but no script, just playing from time to time).

Removing XP from same critters, doesnt hurt so much, because you can simply move to other area, and use SAME skill on different critters. If you remove possibility to FA leveling, non-combat docs are fucked up.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: maciek83 on May 07, 2012, 11:51:16 pm
Just make 2nd XP from FA equal to 0, if there were no other XP source.
So if you're using FA and getting at least any XP, you need to get XP from crafting/killing/quest/outdoorsman/any other skill usage except FA, to be able to earn XP from FA again.

The same can be done with crafting, but there can be a limit something like 1k XP from crafting max, then you need to get XP from something else to be able to get XP from crafting again.

The same can be done with killing grinding :D Killed mobs on 2k XP, go and XP on something else to continue grinding.

There can be XP limits on everything, to force players earn XP by different ways and totally disable botting.

i cant even imagine how frustrating it would be :o
fail
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Roachor on May 08, 2012, 03:47:05 am
Just make 2nd XP from FA equal to 0, if there were no other XP source.
So if you're using FA and getting at least any XP, you need to get XP from crafting/killing/quest/outdoorsman/any other skill usage except FA, to be able to earn XP from FA again.

The same can be done with crafting, but there can be a limit something like 1k XP from crafting max, then you need to get XP from something else to be able to get XP from crafting again.

The same can be done with killing grinding :D Killed mobs on 2k XP, go and XP on something else to continue grinding.

There can be XP limits on everything, to force players earn XP by different ways and totally disable botting.

You do realize that the object of fonline is not to troll the user, right? What would making leveling even slower and boring accomplish?
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Blarg on May 08, 2012, 04:48:05 am
here is my thought

free 5% per lvl to tag skills, this would make tags much more important, as well as allowing for more free points over all, atm it seems like having two skills about 200% can be pretty tricky, leaving not much wiggle room for things like crafting and outdoors, two skills that im sure every player could do with a few extra % in.

example, player tags small guns, and gains 5% to small guns every lvl

if no points are spent skilling it, it would be a bit over 150% at lvl 24
lets say this player spends points getting it about 200% fast, where the cost to skill up starts to cost alot, lets say player gets his small guns to 200% around lvl 15
at lvl 15 he still gains 5% small guns on lvl, so going from 15-24, he has skill points to spend on other skills he/she may want, and still end with just under 250% smallguns.

same player has outdoorsmen tag, spends no points in it, and at lvl 24, he/she will have around 150% outdoors, leaving those skill points left secondary skills, repair/fristaid/traps/lockpick
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: maciek83 on May 08, 2012, 07:01:00 am
i also think we should have more skill points available to spend

maybe differentiate fighting skill from non-fighting skills and make separate skills at level up for fighting skills and separate for non fighting ... hmm

or just double the skill points gained... or triple!
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: RavenousRat on May 08, 2012, 09:37:34 am
You do realize that the object of fonline is not to troll the user, right? What would making leveling even slower and boring accomplish?
The problem of FOnline is that PvP is the only thing implemented in game. Another problem that PvP is possible only on capped level for max potential of your character. So 1-23 level your character is nothing. That's the main problem, and actually you should start from 24th level after character registration just not to waste your time in this game. There're many solutions to force players to PvP on different levels: from rebalancing leveling system, to hard punishing for death (higher level, higher risk).

Leveling in FOnline is just plain grinding and linear. You can even plan your character and then you just need to waste some time of your life to create him. Instead there can be implemented many unpredictable and different ways of leveling by introducing limited XP that will exhaust some day, depending on your actions and character progression, this way different characters will have different level caps depending on their actions throughout whole game, from different skill usage in quests and number of deaths in quests to different ways of completions. Slow XP diminishing for every action that gives XP, probably introduced by different ways: for example "FA yourself" and "FA other" can be different actions. XP from different sources can be affected by reputation/karma/skill/other factor for quests/killing in different places/crafting, this way leveling can be entertaining, tactical and you'll plan your leveling, not build, well.. and build too. With game progression (new updates) can be added new content from new quests/new creatures/new way to spend time/new locations required exploration/new craft/or changing something old, thus raising level cap for every existent character because of new source of XP.
But this all are dreams :D
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on May 08, 2012, 12:42:11 pm
here is my thought

free 5% per lvl to tag skills, this would make tags much more important, as well as allowing for more free points over all, atm it seems like having two skills about 200% can be pretty tricky, leaving not much wiggle room for things like crafting and outdoors, two skills that im sure every player could do with a few extra % in.

example, player tags small guns, and gains 5% to small guns every lvl

if no points are spent skilling it, it would be a bit over 150% at lvl 24
lets say this player spends points getting it about 200% fast, where the cost to skill up starts to cost alot, lets say player gets his small guns to 200% around lvl 15
at lvl 15 he still gains 5% small guns on lvl, so going from 15-24, he has skill points to spend on other skills he/she may want, and still end with just under 250% smallguns.

same player has outdoorsmen tag, spends no points in it, and at lvl 24, he/she will have around 150% outdoors, leaving those skill points left secondary skills, repair/fristaid/traps/lockpick

For me it is perfect suggestion :D
When i started to play fallout, it was fallout 2, i was wondering, why i tagged skills, got 2nd lvl and this *gray-or-white* text + % in table is not raising by themselv.

for example player can tag od and sg, have before that 65% and 40% and for 24 lvl he is even not dropping a point to that 2 skills, waiting till it raise up to 200+% and 200% again :D problem is just perks which require skill%
but specific build dont need all that %, so this can make characters more various.
and more easy to players to make 300% to 1 skill, with this suggestion even 3 skills up to 300% with no hard problem
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Blarg on May 08, 2012, 11:34:15 pm
with a free 5% per level it could be even more important to skill up tags early, i was thinking of how much a bonus 5% would be after 200%

lets say player puts tons of points into small guns to get his perks, he skills small guns to 200% as soon as he can.

now, lets say he is lvl 15 and has 200% gun skill and also is getting 5% each lvl, now, instead of spending 5 SP for 1% he is getting a shitload of "free points"

people would still want to put up tags, but still gain a ton of extra points to spend in otherskills becuase the cost to put up tag would be alot less
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Blarg on May 08, 2012, 11:53:34 pm
lets think of it this way

Skill Level % ---- SP it would cost to increase

0%-100% -- 1 SP for 2% skill --- free 5% at these levels is equal to 2.5 SP

100%-130% -- 2 SP for 2% skill -- Free 5% at these levels is equal to 5 SP

130% - 150%  --  3 SP for 2% skill -- Free 5% at these levels is equal to 7.5 SP

150% - 175% -- 4 SP for 2% skill, free 5% at these levels is equal to 10 SP

175% - 200% -- 5 SP for 2% skill -- free 5% at these levels is worth 12.5 SP

+200%  --- 6 SP for 2% skill -- free 5% at these levels is equal to 15 SP

================================================================

So, it would still be highly advantageous to get your tag skills up first, people would not wait till 24 to spend skill points, as maciek83 was thinking, in fact, it would encourage people to skill up lower skill early

right now, people just skill one skill till its where they want it, then go to the next, under this system, someone who wanted to get a bonus to sneak and small guns from the free 5% would want to skill them both early, tryin to get them up so they can get the best possible bonus from free skills
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Swinglinered on May 10, 2012, 12:26:51 am
ITT There Be Munchkins.
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: maciek83 on May 14, 2012, 12:43:20 am
... people would not wait till 24 to spend skill points, as maciek83 was thinking, ...

and where exactly i was 'thinking' that?
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Blarg on May 14, 2012, 12:45:42 am


edit, super stoned most of the time, sorry about the mistake
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Blarg on May 14, 2012, 12:47:01 am


for example player can tag od and sg, have before that 65% and 40% and for 24 lvl he is even not dropping a point to that 2 skills, waiting till it raise up to 200+% and 200% again :D problem is just perks which require skill%
but specific build dont need all that %, so this can make characters more various.
and more easy to players to make 300% to 1 skill, with this suggestion even 3 skills up to 300% with no hard problem
Title: Re: Raise lvl cap
Post by: Ox-Skull on May 18, 2012, 01:57:17 am
Four more lvls, making it 28, would be perfect amount. skilled and non skilled get 1 more perk plus 4 lvls of SP.