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[Jotisz]

Just a side note to make both skilled and non skilled chars end with a perk, lvl 40 wouldn't be good. It needs to be possible to divide the last level with 3 and 4 too. So possible levels could be 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84.... etc. What I like about current end level that it ends with a perk no matter of traits. Although its still relative fast to reach the last level but now we can get companions and get them to lvl 24 since they respawn. Its still ok to get a mercs/slave and train that one to lvl 24 just needs carefulness they die often due to friendly or non friendly players. I lost most of my dogs due to friendly players who were trying to save me from my own dogs.....

[DeputyDope]

and what is usefull in you ? you at forum ? gooby please, make own topic/forum/web site/blog and troll someone ?

please keep "gang issues" outta this topic. you don't like me? fine, make a ragetopic on "gang issues" with the title "DEPUTYDOPE IS SUPER LAME NOOB!!!!!!!111oneone" and stop polluting your own thread.

what usefull i can pick up from ur post ? and what if you cant read and use any chance to troll ? i have more than 1 kk exp, seems enought for more than 21 lvl. use imagination. dont post here is you dont want to turn this peacefull suggestion into gang issues

hey, you really think that making suggestions without thinking beforehand makes you more useful?

as i said before this level cap remove will make game balance worse, and make this game less fun. everyone will have 1000HP, all perks, and all guns skills maxed out. what the fuck is the point?

same i can say about each changes in game, am i whining about i cant lvl up above 24 or i m just suggesting feature or just posting my opinion about level cap. alting may be useless after lvl cap remove - cant make 99 lvl - make 9 24 lvl characters which can have same skills like in this session, i dont know who againt thing you have 9 alts and remember all theyr names.

really, you want jack of all trades character? play fallout singleplayer. this game's fun comes from alting and trying out different builds. making all characters the same will kill this game.

[Who Killed Bambi]

Just a side note to make both skilled and non skilled chars end with a perk, lvl 40 wouldn't be good. It needs to be possible to divide the last level with 3 and 4 too. So possible levels could be 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84.... etc. What I like about current end level that it ends with a perk no matter of traits. Although its still relative fast to reach the last level but now we can get companions and get them to lvl 24 since they respawn. Its still ok to get a mercs/slave and train that one to lvl 24 just needs carefulness they die often due to friendly or non friendly players. I lost most of my dogs due to friendly players who were trying to save me from my own dogs.....

also this idea with perks / perk per 4 lvl / more rare spawn of perks can be good too.

i think
1            9            17            25            33
2            10           18            26           34
3            11           19            27           35
4p          12p          20p          28p          36p 
5            13           21            29           37
6            14           22            30           38
7            15           23            31           39
8p          16p          24p          32p          40p

perk table allows just 10 perks, and if remove skilled and add back perk +1 to special (gifted) this can make perk/lvl/special/skill% more balanced, each character, even doctor can be defend able against big gunner (because of 2min special, and i personally gonna choose +7 other special points against some other perks.

mercs this era with caps abit useless, but for example melee, which price is cheap and unarmed mutants is really great.
if mercs gonna have ability to lvl up to 40 too, this can be great for character (not merc leader, which have special build)
make them more usefull in fight, i think mutant 40 lvl can have about 700 hp, which makes him really good defender against unwanter encounters while trawelling in afk mode.

or even perk table up to bigger lvl cap (60 or more) can be various, and if leave perk table with 3 lvl per perk and add system where 1 perk tree close other (for example crits close high based damage) or etc.

[maciek83]

600+ hp ? please... current hp levels are quite balanced , more skill points? i think its better when there is not too much of them so you must carefully choose what you really need - thats what creating character is all about, more perks? what for? so you can have all perk 'trees' - thats nonsens

[Jotisz]

I think it would take a lot of time personally I think current system the devs made is quite ok. I would welcome more levels so I can see that I'm not just getting exp but actually gaining something since unlike most of the players I like to level characters. Usually different ways. But after max level there is not much goal in gaining more exp so I usually start a new char or if I really like that char I try to make the leveling as long as possible.
Personally I think instead of bigger level caps I would prefer something that would promote gaining exp after last levels, like an ability to give away experience through an NPC quest so from those who take it one gets the extra exp that the player gives up. However I gone off topic with this and if I remember something similar was suggested already. And probably would take up too much resources from the devs there are some stuffs they already trying to implement and repair (like that domination mod which sounded quite fun but didn't made it in).

[The JokeR]

the only solution is to add another 6 - 12 levels .. With the introduction of new perks (small but pleasant things, for example), and make it possible to choose only one (24 + = old closed, 0 skill points at a level hit points are not given).
What do we have?
-Small but pleasant things (for example 10 15 20% chance that you will be able to avoid an unwanted meeting in wasterland)
Save-while-would be available at the moment balance (compared with the proposals of the +30 levels, which clearly will be ignored by the administration )

[Who Killed Bambi]

600+ hp ? please... current hp levels are quite balanced , more skill points? i think its better when there is not too much of them so you must carefully choose what you really need - thats what creating character is all about, more perks? what for? so you can have all perk 'trees' - thats nonsens

1 en 0 hp per lvl is not that great, i m mostly talking about lvl cap remove, and if this can happen ( for exaple i post about 40 lvl cap all that time ) hp at 40 lvl max can be at (with current lifegiver) 59+9+5x40+20+30+40 just 400 +-, i misscalculated abit, anyway
about sp - more sp better, game is not about character creating but about gaming, i m started topic because of no possibility to make some universal character, and why that so bad when player can have alot perks ? or you mean it is bad when at 40 lvl player can choose between critical (5+10+20%+sd +...) or alot brd and etc.

I think it would take a lot of time personally I think current system the devs made is quite ok. I would welcome more levels so I can see that I'm not just getting exp but actually gaining something since unlike most of the players I like to level characters. Usually different ways. But after max level there is not much goal in gaining more exp so I usually start a new char or if I really like that char I try to make the leveling as long as possible.
Personally I think instead of bigger level caps I would prefer something that would promote gaining exp after last levels, like an ability to give away experience through an NPC quest so from those who take it one gets the extra exp that the player gives up. However I gone off topic with this and if I remember something similar was suggested already. And probably would take up too much resources from the devs there are some stuffs they already trying to implement and repair (like that domination mod which sounded quite fun but didn't made it in).

for sure system devs make is ok, but it is ok for 24 lvl cap. dont treat me wrong, but i think this lvl cap sound like lvl cap in fo3, which is not great about leveling now - there is few cast: fighters, which easy to lvl up, crafters - which can raise exp from 1 lvl just by crafting, few doctors, few lockpickers and etc, for me leveling is hard before lvl cap - then i get in x amount bonus which i cant use. just by crafting raised up to 670k exp this session.
never heard about domination mod or i dont remember

the only solution is to add another 6 - 12 levels .. With the introduction of new perks (small but pleasant things, for example), and make it possible to choose only one (24 + = old closed, 0 skill points at a level hit points are not given).
What do we have?
-Small but pleasant things (for example 10 15 20% chance that you will be able to avoid an unwanted meeting in wasterland)
Save-while-would be available at the moment balance (compared with the proposals of the +30 levels, which clearly will be ignored by the administration )

i d like to love removed / capped at some level character level because of bonus sp, which is usefull all the time, some perks and dream of fonliner - gifted trait

[maciek83]

well now gifted is the most retarded idea. everyone would have to take it

[Who Killed Bambi]

well now gifted is the most retarded idea. everyone would have to take it

i heard gifted was removed because of uberpower, but what the point for crafter or doctor loose 7 special ? just because *big guys* in tc gonna easyly kill each other ? and everyone would have it in traits, is this that bad ?

[snailbeast]

It surely is.

What`s up with trait for everyone? What a point? What a point of Small Frame trait then?I can get 6 usefull points just about for nothing = I will use it.

Why not make everyone be 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 allperks 300allskills build? they will alt anyway...

[Malice Song]

I don't quite get what's the point of the suggestion. I don't mean that in a condescending way, I literally don't get what you're aiming for.

If it's to get rid or diminish the use of alts for yourself and/or others, then the problem is not so much the system itself, but the reluctance to accept restrictions as a means to enhance gameplay (as in choosing a role, sticking to it and rely on other players' help to adress one's own weaknesses). Obviously not quite that simple, I get that, not enough players to realistically seek them out for help, spiraling effect from people not wanting to fall behind in the alt race and for some players it's simply more fun to explore several options and/or they simply don't care to interact with other players. Point being, in almost all cases a leveling systems brings restrictions and builds, that are more or less specialised. That's not a bad thing for those who choose to stick to that, on the contrary. Nothing about that is inherently broken and there is no need to adress that apart from finetuning the system, like has happened with the lift of limitations on crafting professions. Furthermore, I'd suspect that, no matter how miniscule the limitations inherent in the system would be, there would always be a non-zero percentage of players that strive to circumvent even those restrictions, resulting in alternative builds. Lowering maximum skill percentage doesn't really counter that as much as it takes away from specialised builds which some players chose to play.

If you wanted to adress that, on the other hand, and the aim is to actually create builds that can do pretty much everything, then that would not necessarily be an invalid suggestion, but at that point you may as well suggest getting rid of levels alltogether and give every player the same finalized max level build at creation and remove the whole grinding aspect. After all, if you set the level cap high enough that similarities between builds outweigh differences, there's really nothing special about leveling up apart from reaching some arbitrary numbers, whereas the way it is now you're working towards a specific end result and every level is going to set you apart from the other players a little bit more. So the question then becomes: do I want to remove the leveling system entirely? In itself this is a valid question, since it would focus the gaming experience more to a skillbased one where players face off against each other on equal terms. However, there's three problems with that:

• Unless you can guarantee that PvP is going to take place in equal numbers, one side would always have an inherent advantage, thus rendering the whole idea of skillbased combat a bit moot or at least taint it to some extent.
• Player numbers would dwindle even more, since a big part of the Fallout identity would be removed. In itself the latter isn't a bad thing, but seeing as this is technically a mod of Fallout 2, that's where potential new players come from and anything that removes core concepts of the main game is going to alienate the majority of new players.
• Not to shit on everything here, but seriously, once all players play an almost identical build, how compelling are the gameplay mechanics really?

 


Also for the record: with the current levelcap I wouldn't take Gifted fwiw.

[maciek83]

you wouldnt take gifted?
you could put all bonus 7 points into inteligence and have your skill points back and even MORE ,and put the where you want. thats why it was cosidered by many a 'cheat' trait

[Who Killed Bambi]

It surely is.

What`s up with trait for everyone? What a point? What a point of Small Frame trait then?I can get 6 usefull points just about for nothing = I will use it.

Why not make everyone be 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 allperks 300allskills build? they will alt anyway...

whats wrong with good build ? make character have trait -20 to starter special points and replication right after death with full hp at same place sounds more resonable ? gifted and small frame is way best perks at all i think, also no lvl cap, and cap to % skill is what about i m talking mainly

I don't quite get what's the point of the suggestion. I don't mean that in a condescending way, I literally don't get what you're aiming for.

If it's to get rid or diminish the use of alts for yourself and/or others, then the problem is not so much the system itself, but the reluctance to accept restrictions as a means to enhance gameplay (as in choosing a role, sticking to it and rely on other players' help to adress one's own weaknesses). Obviously not quite that simple, I get that, not enough players to realistically seek them out for help, spiraling effect from people not wanting to fall behind in the alt race and for some players it's simply more fun to explore several options and/or they simply don't care to interact with other players. Point being, in almost all cases a leveling systems brings restrictions and builds, that are more or less specialised. That's not a bad thing for those who choose to stick to that, on the contrary. Nothing about that is inherently broken and there is no need to adress that apart from finetuning the system, like has happened with the lift of limitations on crafting professions. Furthermore, I'd suspect that, no matter how miniscule the limitations inherent in the system would be, there would always be a non-zero percentage of players that strive to circumvent even those restrictions, resulting in alternative builds. Lowering maximum skill percentage doesn't really counter that as much as it takes away from specialised builds which some players chose to play.

If you wanted to adress that, on the other hand, and the aim is to actually create builds that can do pretty much everything, then that would not necessarily be an invalid suggestion, but at that point you may as well suggest getting rid of levels alltogether and give every player the same finalized max level build at creation and remove the whole grinding aspect. After all, if you set the level cap high enough that similarities between builds outweigh differences, there's really nothing special about leveling up apart from reaching some arbitrary numbers, whereas the way it is now you're working towards a specific end result and every level is going to set you apart from the other players a little bit more. So the question then becomes: do I want to remove the leveling system entirely? In itself this is a valid question, since it would focus the gaming experience more to a skillbased one where players face off against each other on equal terms. However, there's three problems with that:

• Unless you can guarantee that PvP is going to take place in equal numbers, one side would always have an inherent advantage, thus rendering the whole idea of skillbased combat a bit moot or at least taint it to some extent.
• Player numbers would dwindle even more, since a big part of the Fallout identity would be removed. In itself the latter isn't a bad thing, but seeing as this is technically a mod of Fallout 2, that's where potential new players come from and anything that removes core concepts of the main game is going to alienate the majority of new players.
• Not to shit on everything here, but seriously, once all players play an almost identical build, how compelling are the gameplay mechanics really?

 


Also for the record: with the current levelcap I wouldn't take Gifted fwiw.

i m not aiming to remove alts, it is almost impossible, or possible by ban waves or etc. i m about to make conversation about point of leave lvl cap and point of remove lvl cap. gifted trait is such a part of each normal character in fo2, which makes character at least play able in that game
actually i cant imagine fo2 without gauss and apa, because i even dont remember what i used to use 1st time i was playing.
fonline is totally different from fo2 and fo1, and i m not asking for add apa and gauss rifle back to game, actually i see no point in pvp and small point in pve, so who knows.

you wouldnt take gifted?
you could put all bonus 7 points into inteligence and have your skill points back and even MORE ,and put the where you want. thats why it was cosidered by many a 'cheat' trait

i think if gifted was in game last wipe and before, and just imagine that devs removed gifted this season - i think 15 topics with *why i cant make normal character* gonna be spawned.
most cheat skill is bg as i see (sg and ew too) and cheat perk silent death is good perk, wonder why i have no sneaker and no fighter char. maybe game is not just about killing, why nefr crafters/rp guys/doctors if pvp alt is *uberpowered*, i even dont spend time for pvp because each faction have own problem and some of them dislike each other, what for doo i need that problem with 24 hour tc or pvp flame war and rage/flamewar topics ?

[Malice Song]

Not quite, I have IN 10 and Skilled. Taking Gifted will reduce my SP. Bonus points would be nice, obviously, but I'm more interested in SP. That said, I'm obviously an outlier and wouldn't argue for anyone not to take Gifted. Was more of a sidenote.

[maciek83]

well ok ,you are right . specialist character would not want gifted ,but who cares for em 
its balanced pvp that matters here the most.
i understand discusion about gifted is a side note