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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: A concerned wastelander on January 19, 2012, 09:57:04 pm
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What do you think of the auto knock down from heavy handed?
It seems to me its far too abusable, I mean, once a heavy handed punch you, its over unless you have a friend to save you, since he will be able to get back is action points while your on ground and punch you again in a never ending loop.
Maybe just set it so that you have a chance of knocking down your target (lets say 50%?), but not 100%.
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If stonewall helps against every knockdown caused by heavy handed, then it's ok.
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It is not 100%.
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Maybe im wrong but by what i saw (maybe 20-30 punchs), it is 100%, and stonewall doesnt help.
Edit, doesnt help i meant.
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What i think? I can finally stand up against some PKs while i do mining!
Even on 1 on 1 fights i'm not always the last man standing so quit your whining! You're good at fighting at range and i'm good at fighting point blank... Nothing's wrong with that
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Please, we are having a mature conversation, no need to acuse me of whining, how old are you?
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if you are tough enough (10 en, + quick rec and or stonewall) you shit on heavy handed :)
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Yeah nothing wrong in that(read it in sarcastic voice). Im with my friend made two hv handed chars and was running around the world beating friendly NPC if they was 2 or alone, so two 4 lvls guys beated to death enclave and BOS, super muties too. It wasnt very worth our time but was fun, sometimes caught high lvl guy and beated to death. From one hv handed guy is possible to escape but need to run when you get up, its impossible to regen ap and fight back, from 2 guys its impossible to run out, even enclave with APA and 700 hp dont survived. It must be fixed like 50 % chance to knockdown or smth simlar, because your high lvl champ cant do anything but run from hv handed noob, unless u have stonewall, and thats stupid and illogic that you must run from just created random alt with hv handed trait, of course he will only tickle you and you must wait to get up, but if there is more than one, you just can pray for double 5% 5% miss.
Conclusion:
So why this trait looks broken to me? Because it gives possibility to troll on high lvl chars with very low lvl chars without any gear.
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If you dont like it then run...at least you can run from one guy...not very much when someone kills you from distance in one shot.
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Play in TB ;P
75% knockdown would still be ok or En or St throw to counter.
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Stonewall needs to beat HH. It will do when fixed.
I also think I will have HH work as Str -5 instead of a Str roll, then ignore the -5 if using a PF or MPF ... so its not quite so good when using naked fists.
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Stonewall needs to beat HH. It will do when fixed.
I also think I will have HH work as Str -5 instead of a Str roll, then ignore the -5 if using a PF or MPF ... so its not quite so good when using naked fists.
THAT is a good idea!
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What do you mean by beat? Negate it completely or just lower the chance?
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I mean if the HH and stonewall rolls were both passed, the stonewall effect would be enacted
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I mean if the HH and stonewall rolls were both passed, the stonewall effect would be enacted
That is a good idea. It should be so that stonewall would work in this case. I had similar idea;
Whoever rolls higher wins for example we have 8EN stonewaller and 7STHeavyHander
HH rolls 2 and stone rolls 7. Both pass the check but HH passed with greater bufor thus he wins = K.D.
If HH would roll 5 and tank 6 = tie -> defender wins (stonewaller)
HH doesnt pass and stonewall passes check then obviously still stands
You don't need to further nerf it coz you simply may run away from pugilist so i see HHs as an opportunity to even the odds (pre wipe every HtH fighter would be pawned by any gunner)
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Maybe im wrong but by what i saw (maybe 20-30 punchs), it is 100%, and stonewall doesnt help.
Edit, doesnt help i meant.
Peole were probably using HH with 10 STR.
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I reckon a Strength vs. Strength roll would be a good test for every unarmed or melee knockdown. HH get a ST vs. ST roll on EVERY hit and without HH it only does the roll on criticals. This would solve most players getting knocked down by ants, rats, manti and centipedes.
even with 10ST it still doesn't work 100% of the time. the last fight my HH char had was when i was mining in my bluesuit at broken hills. another player arrived with a 10mm pistol and started shooting, I won the fight with 8/120 health left. To me that seemed fair, he had multiple chances to get more distance but he didn't take them. Then I got killed by ants, so nobody won.
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Those ants had their meal, they and their family should be thankful
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in your face and jinxed seems to give heavy handed guys a rather tough time :)
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Peole were probably using HH with 10 STR.
Even then it's 95% not 100% :P
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Jovanka's right. If nothing changes from the origina Fallout, maximal hit chance is 95 percent.
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Ok here is my idea for this heavy handed should give 15%*ST difference +20%that way if two 10st char fights chances for knock down are 20%.
While people who are overpowered by double amount of strength are always down. Stonawall should halfe the chances so with 10st and stonawall a player can have 10% chance for being knockdowned.
Lets see a char A (10st HH HtH char) attacks B (7st + stonewall minigun guy), difference of st is 3 so chance would be 65% but since there is stonewall its 32,5%.
I think there should be no EN check just ST since EN is for endourance aka how much pain I can take while ST is the raw strength.
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Best solution for heavy handed would be to replace the knockdown by knockback, thus having the same effect, but without the AP loss. It's rather unfair to have one build to be able to block the AP regen of someone who isn't able to do anything about it. With knockback effect, the victim would still be able to retaliate _after_ the unarmed guy has used up all of his ap, and has dealt a certain amount of damage to the victim.
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It could be str vs str roll. Frail chars could be tossed around easily but chars more equal in strength not.
Even better: the more total ap you have in percentages, the more likely you will get a knockdown. This prevents spamming the knockdown but allows the char do a powerful first strike. Strikes still cost the same.
So if you have only 3 ap out of 10, the knockdown chance would be much lower.
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maybe instead of talking about a lame unarmed trait you should start talking about that Silent Death perk, because honestly it's incredibly overpowered, making many builds useless.
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maybe instead of talking about a lame unarmed trait you should start talking about that Silent Death perk, because honestly it's incredibly overpowered, making many builds useless.
That's what different threads are for, right?
To talk about different things?
I would say, simply make stonewall working against it and let's see how many HH will
still roam the wasteland. I don't think HH trait is a big problem really.
There was plenty of unarmed HH right after wipe, because you get bonus from level 1
and you don't have to craft, but I don't even see them that often anymore.
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(...) but I don't even see them that often anymore.
come to Boneyard tobacco farm then :) Yesterday two guys were camping there. One was gathering all the tobacco and the other (Haymaker) was beating the crap out of anybody who entered, including little lo me. And I have 10EN and decent lvl but when he knocked me down he kept punching until I saw light in the tunnel. And I couldn't do anything because when I was getting up he was knocking me down back again.
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come to Boneyard tobacco farm then :) Yesterday two guys were camping there. One was gathering all the tobacco and the other (Haymaker) was beating the crap out of anybody who entered, including little lo me.
I have seen them, I run away. Come with 2 people and kill them. What's the problem?
With working stonewall unarmed could never be sure about the outcome.
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Best solution for heavy handed would be to replace the knockdown by knockback, (...)
That is the most ridiculous thing i've heard in a long time! You want to trade a banefit of a trait for another negative aspect? As a HtH fighter you have enough trouble already with getting point blank to your enemy. Knockback would make things even worse
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Best solution is simple: fix the goddamn speed!
Really, with 10ST you are probably not going to have max amount of action points if you also want some other things. And without your action points you should be outrun.
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Best solution is simple: fix the goddamn speed!
Really, with 10ST you are probably not going to have max amount of action points if you also want some other things. And without your action points you should be outrun.
You forgot that you're not using AP while running. Not in RT at least.
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That's exactly the point. It's one of the bits where TB/RT don't translate to each other very well at all. There's plenty of creatures (and obviously players) which move far too slow/fast in real time compared to in turn based. In real time, a slow hulk of a man with low agility runs as quickly as a light and agile one. Ideally those AP would relate somehow to number of squares moved per second or something suchlike. However, I think it's not something that can be fixed easily, as I think the movement and animation speeds are set for sprite types as a whole, rather than being controllable by stats.
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Well i fought many times in many threads over RT speed to be equal to APs/Agi
So far it's the lost cause... Devs answer on this "the running animations would look weird". Coz it's better to have a smooth animations in a graphicaly outdated game rather than have it balanced...
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That's not true. We said it was impossible.
Although I think this was actually made possible whilst I was off reproducing, so hopefully will happen in some form
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Does the heavy handed work for Melee weapons I got like 10 str test char and didnt score any kd on npcs...
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That is the most ridiculous thing i've heard in a long time! You want to trade a banefit of a trait for another negative aspect? As a HtH fighter you have enough trouble already with getting point blank to your enemy. Knockback would make things even worse
Knockback doesn't necessarily mean that you'll go flying 1281612 hexes backwards from one simple punch. The same knockback as you would get from frag grenades, not necessarily moving around, just... delaying and keeping you immobile.
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Knockback doesn't necessarily mean that you'll go flying 1281612 hexes backwards from one simple punch. The same knockback as you would get from frag grenades, not necessarily moving around, just... delaying and keeping you immobile.
Ohhh... That makes more sense if knockback would equal 0 (In Your Face! would become obsolete otherwise).
Still... Why change something that is balanced? (HtH fighters still have no chance ant fair distance or at catching their prey/attackers but at least they now have a means to defend themselves)
That's not true. We said it was impossible.
Although I think this was actually made possible whilst I was off reproducing, so hopefully will happen in some form
I definatley remember my quote being an answer to the RT movement balance problem...
I'll do some searching and let ya know...
Edit: Found it; http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=19164.msg160133#msg160133
(my bad i thought a dev said it while he was a mod)
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Still... Why change something that is balanced?
Nice joke.
(HtH fighters still have no chance ant fair distance or at catching their prey/attackers but at least they now have a means to defend themselves)
Defend themselves? The can beat any player/NPC to death without much trouble... With high AC and jinxed they can't be hit before they come close.
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Nice joke.
Place points before sneering my good sir
Defend themselves? The can beat any player/NPC to death without much trouble... With high AC and jinxed they can't be hit before they come close.
And once thay stand still, they are meat... Plus the trick with pawning NPC works ONLY when there's a single NPC
EDIT: actually the feature might not be perfectly balanced but it sure added great deal of balance to the equation between chances of HtH fighters and gunners. <- That's my idea of balance in this case
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Defend themselves? The can beat any player/NPC to death without much trouble...
No they can't, unless you will let them come close. You can run away from them without much trouble.
Why some players think that fights must always end with dead people on ground? -.- It's not deathmatch.
"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious." - Sun Tzu ;)
And any 2 people, even bluesuit taxi alts can kill a HH build easily.
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Nice joke.
Defend themselves? The can beat any player/NPC to death without much trouble... With high AC and jinxed they can't be hit before they come close.
Yes that 90 AC is going to help them allot when they are 3 hexes away from their target with a minigun. and about jinxed. jinxed causes crit failures for the user aswell. and since most hh hth are 1 luck well...
I'm happy that hh finnaly has some use. hth will never be good pvp wise, but there is no need to crush it in the ground any further.
Concerning punching any npc to death. Yes you are right! this is a problem! How do we solve it? why not give bos/enclave or other strong things stonewall perks etc? (whenever this becomes possible anyway) And why doesn't armor help against knockdown? It protects again'st crits yes. but a simple crit mauser bullet to the torso can still make somoene in CA be knocked down.
The whole problem I have with nerfing is that it tends to do more than solve a single problem. It tends to make some things usseles. Instead, you take a better look at the said problem and see if you can add slight (deserved) buffs to often used objects in this situation to make it more fair. for example metal armor or better could force a str -5 roll to avoid knockdown when punched. This is actually similar to what solar mentioned before. but it's more the other way around, which I think is better solution than always applying a roll -5. (you could even balance it further by applying eg: str -2 when wearing leather, -3 when wearing metal etc etc.)
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Unless we will see armies of HH in TC, it's not overpowered.
TC people always use the most effective builds and some whining that someone
had to run away with bluesuit farmer on tobacco plantation won't change it.
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Yes that 90 AC is going to help them allot when they are 3 hexes away from their target with a minigun.
90AC is not for long, soon it's gonna be 220AC. With -220 skill, your minigun at 3 hex prolly won't even have 95%...
and about jinxed. jinxed causes crit failures for the user aswell. and since most hh hth are 1 luck well...
Jinxed can cause crit failure only when you miss in a first place. The HtH will have 95% ToHit. Everyone else prolly not with 220AC.
No they can't, unless you will let them come close.
I can imagine many way for HtH to got close to you : waiting in a building, around a corner, being a sneak... And once they hit you, I am pretty sure your chance to get back on your feet are really low. Not mentioning there can be two bluesuit HH against you, if they play well, one hit and you're dead, whatever your stuff.
And once thay stand still, they are meat..
Only if there is someone else.
Plus the trick with pawning NPC works ONLY when there's a single NPC
Or if there is as much HH than NPCs.
And, obviously, all of the above in bluesuit without weapon. Yeah, it's very balanced right now...
Thanks god Solar noticed something is wrong and will nerf it enough for it to be useful, but not ultimate whenever it come to duel or at least as much bluesuit HH as opponents.
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there wont be 220AC, 90 is cap. All You can get is 90 AC in CA while running, nothing more.
If You ask why? For same reason why there is only 95% chance to hit.
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Does the heavy handed work for Melee weapons I got like 10 str test char and didnt score any kd on npcs...
Of course not since this update didnt add anything nice for melee weapons. Some changes hopefully will be made to finally start to balance between unarmed and melee.
About Heavy Handed itself:
I tested (1-2 days ago) heavy handed - 10 ST char attacking char with 10 ST and 10 EN with Stonewall. Somehow 99% of hits were knocking him down so I am not sure if it's a bug or just imbalanced feature.
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About Heavy Handed itself:
I tested (1-2 days ago) heavy handed - 10 ST char attacking char with 10 ST and 10 EN with Stonewall. Somehow 99% of hits were knocking him down so I am not sure if it's a bug or just imbalanced feature.
Bug or imbalanced feature, at least we agree that something is wrong here.
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Stonewall should beat HH, its just not working at the moment.
I think I'll copy and paste that :P
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90AC is not for long, soon it's gonna be 220AC. With -220 skill, your minigun at 3 hex prolly won't even have 95%...
Jinxed can cause crit failure only when you miss in a first place. The HtH will have 95% ToHit. Everyone else prolly not with 220AC.
I can imagine many way for HtH to got close to you : waiting in a building, around a corner, being a sneak... And once they hit you, I am pretty sure your chance to get back on your feet are really low. Not mentioning there can be two bluesuit HH against you, if they play well, one hit and you're dead, whatever your stuff.
Only if there is someone else.
Or if there is as much HH than NPCs.
And, obviously, all of the above in bluesuit without weapon. Yeah, it's very balanced right now...
Thanks god Solar noticed something is wrong and will nerf it enough for it to be useful, but not ultimate whenever it come to duel or at least as much bluesuit HH as opponents.
Concerning 220 AC - Keep in mind that to archieve this, you will be needing allot of perks. and there won't be much else left.
You should also keep in mind, that the moment this hth stops moving, he suddenly becomes a very very easy target. Especially since he won't have any lifegiver perks or toughness perks because of the various dodger perks.
You also mentioned that hth will practically never miss when beating somoene down. - You forget that all it takes is a single miss hit, And with the currenty damage a hh hth can do it takes a very long time to actually kill somoene with a decent amount of HP.
You also mention multiple hh hth people beating on you - Which is funny because your whole argument relies on the fact that the person being beaten is alone. I'm fairly sure that when you meet two persons equal in strenght to you that your odds to survive are already very low. and atleast you can run from hh if you are atleast slightly carefull to avoid them from jumping you. And i'm also sure that once you come with atleast a single friend, your whole worries about hh are over.
As I mentioned before. You can fix this whole problem by giving good armor a str - x roll when being hit by hh instead of the current str roll. You do not replace an entire machine when a single part of the machine is not functioning properly, you simply replace that part.
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there wont be 220AC, 90 is cap. All You can get is 90 AC in CA while running, nothing more.
If You ask why? For same reason why there is only 95% chance to hit.
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=20203.msg169115#msg169115
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=20005.msg168254#msg168254
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=20396.msg169501#msg169501
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Stonewall should beat HH, its just not working at the moment.
I think I'll copy and paste that :P
Even if stonewall protected against it, it would mean you need to have it not to be knocked down 99% of the time you are hit by HH characters. We should not have to take a perk to correct a bad feature (or bug).
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Stonewall should beat HH, its just not working at the moment.
I think I'll copy and paste that :P
So after fixing it stonewall will beat HH always or like 50% of the time?
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Well, that is no problem in itself. You're vulnerable to a character, you have defences against it - running, killing them before they get there. If you don't choose the perk that's your choice.
The only problem with it is bluesuits using it and risking nothing, which is why I said -5 Str default which is removed by PF or MPF.
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If you make HH a ST-5 check you'll never again see the HH trait picked by anyone...
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If you make HH a ST-5 check you'll never again see the HH trait picked by anyone...
I will pick it. But I would prefer:
MPF: ST+1 (capped of course)
PF: ST+0
SPIKED: ST-3
BRASS: ST-4
UNARMED, ROCK: ST-5
Or something similar. And combined with drugs, so with 10 ST you could take buffout,
psycho and spiked knuckles and have 10 ST check (ST 10+3-3)
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http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=20203.msg169115#msg169115
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=20005.msg168254#msg168254
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=20396.msg169501#msg169501
It need changes in the game engine, so "soon" mean exacly this (http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Soon).
Also if it will be implemented somehow, max AC will be decreased by armor and dont forget that it works only while running.
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Well, that is no problem in itself. You're vulnerable to a character, you have defences against it - running, killing them before they get there. If you don't choose the perk that's your choice.
The only problem with it is bluesuits using it and risking nothing, which is why I said -5 Str default which is removed by PF or MPF.
Really solar, you should see HtH fighters in action, as well as SD fighters, really take your time test HOW sneaking works at the moment. There isnt much running or shooting when you dont know whats gonna hit you and when, its oh so very very easy to sneak up on people now its just ridiculous, and as people have posted all it takes is 1 hit and you're likely not getting up. Although I must admit the HtH situation is not so dire considering that with SD and a bursting weapon, 1 hit and YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY not getting up.
I truly dont mind how sneak works, I actually love the idea, but you IMO, by a decade of FoT experience with silent running ninja bursting sneakers, I can decidedly tell you how broken is to be able to RUN and SNEAK. Tactics get thrown out of the window and it isnt as much as ambushing as its DESCENDING upon your victim, batman style and all... Keep sneak the way it is, remove the ability to run Im extremely certain about that, a sneaker should plan carefully and tactically its hit, not just a man with a stealth field device (Oh there goes another idea, maybe running if a stealth boy is enabled, who knows!) Trust me, walking people is completely possible to detect with a motion sensor, running people might not give you the chance most of the time
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u forgot 1 thing, these people ( sneakers + unarmed) risk nothing, they can run around trolling ( i can see maxed ac trolls during tc when AC cap will be removed), if they get killed they are back in 2 min, and all talk about balancing unarmed and sneak would make sense if it needed some stuff to use, any big gunner needs expensive stuff, all sneakers and unarmed need is a blue pajama or a cheap smg from encounter, since when something like this should be "balanced" ?? make them use expensive stuff or nerf it
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I think we need to just play some time to actually see how they come into play , if these HH hth characters will become a serious problem i'm sure people will come up with constructive feedback and you all will be heard again , furthermore i highly doubt developers in that case will sit with their hands crossed.
In any case i would agree on some changes at the moment like END slightly affecting knock down chance , we already have perks for protection , another thing would be to boost tree trunk tights as it makes your legs stronger you might as well gain slight protection against KD. That perk right now is only for lockpick treasure hunter blueprint farmers.
make them use expensive stuff or nerf it
That's one of the most stupid things i have ever heard in this forum.
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What do you think of the auto knock down from heavy handed?
Worst feature ever :P
but also:
I think we need to just play some time to actually see how they come into play
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why u say that? someone above noticed whats gonna happen soon, since sneak is OP, everyone will make new sneak alts, groups of sneak users 5-10 will camp important places and as it is now nothing can be done against it, doesnt matter if they use SD greas guns or nades in the future, the sneakers choose the time and place to strike and its impossible to detect 'em, the motion scanner thingy would be a nice idea if it revealed sneakers for the person who has it on in his inventory ...
and dunno about removing AC max cap but mark my words if it happens u will have hords of blue trolls running around wasting ur ammo looting stuff and gangbanging single loners not smart enough to run away when they see 2-3 blue pajama guys, if u kill the troll he will be back in a minute, we have seen it before and its gonna be even worse
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and dunno about removing AC max cap but mark my words if it happens u will have hords of blue trolls running around wasting ur ammo looting stuff and gangbanging single loners not smart enough to run away when they see 2-3 blue pajama guys, if u kill the troll he will be back in a minute, we have seen it before and its gonna be even worse
Since when you are taking care of loners so much?
Also here, have some spare dots: ................
Use them wisely.
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HH is a bad thing it shouldnt be possible to punch everything outta the game , with probably no stuff or some stone in hand . i like that idea about using MPF or PF then they would be forced tu use high tier stuff too if they wanna kick high tier BG outta the game its so annyoing feature man
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I've made a lot of unarmed chars over the years and HH is the only thing that makes them viable. It's less effective then sneak nading, sneak bursting, sneak sd pistol. Why are you standing around in unguarded areas anyways? A lvl 24 char with a good build should be able to kill something, without HH this isn't possible. Next people will be saying bb gun is op because you can instacrit with something that takes 2 junk to make.
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Why are you standing around in unguarded areas anyways?
To do pvp.
A lvl 24 char with a good build should be able to kill something,
But not for free. What makes pvp exciting is that players have something to lose, which is their gear. If you're hh fighter with no gear, you got nothing to lose. Fighting against enemies that have nothing to lose is tiresome, boring and just makes you want to go and do something else.
without HH this isn't possible.
Well too bad. It can never work without being overpowered. Avenger on onehex does over 300 damage. To be equally good, for example mega powerfist should do over 600 to compensate its range. Can't work. Besides, the big guns skill does 0 damage if you don't have a weapon. Why should unarmed do any damage if you only have your fists? With that logic all big gunners should have unlootable flamers stuck in their hands.
Next people will be saying bb gun is op because you can instacrit with something that takes 2 junk to make.
Nobody's saying bb gun is op, but many have mentioned that instas aren't something that should remain in the game. Besides, at least you have to craft and regear after you lose that bb gun. You never lose your hh fists.
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very good reply avv , why i stand in unguarded areas hmmm let me think well to get some stuff for crafting this season is more challenging because all stuff that needed is in unguarded areas , if i were able to get these stuff at ncr let me know then ... e.g. toxic caves thats were i was killed yesterday by a HH fighter and i am lvl24 bg 2 time burster build so come on please ...
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I think the idea was good, you're a close range fighter, you're supposed to be better than others at close range, but 100% knockdown seems to be a bit over kill, I think making perks like stonewall reduce the chance (not negate) would make HH balanced
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Why shotguns, at least few types, not give knockback efect. So you would be able to throw him away, but not kill him.
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Avv your reply just shows you've never actually made a HH char. Just a list of reason you are wrong.
-Standing around in unguarded town is just stupid, especially during pvp.
-HH means crits are useless, so there is no benefit to to using haymaker over powerfist since you are going for raw damage. 23 dmg max before armour reductions means you'll be taking like 10 damage a punch, all it takes is one miss to run away and never be caught again. It's almost impossible to catch someone running away unless they run into a dead end.
-Only way to get close is to sneak meaning you need 10 int, only way to get max knockdown is 10 str and only way to hit often enough to chainstun means 10 agi. Pretty high point investment required to be effective.
-pretty much every other weapon in the game is more dangerous, every build has pros and cons but when people don't make the build they just see the pros and conveniently forget everything else.
-Stealth builds are easily 1 hexed, if someone knocks you down when you aren't paying attention you have full ap, all it takes is 1 miss and you can kill your attacker.
-Stonewall and quick recovery are going to affect HH on the next update
In summary, quit whining about heavy handed it's not op. If you die it's because you didn't move. You would have died faster doing the same thing from most other builds.
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Either way, HH is free weapon and you lose nothing if you die. That's against what pvp is based on. We can argue over details and strategies and present all sorts of what if situations but the fact is HH provides method to harass geared players without any risk of losing gear oneself. If fonline pvp wasn't based on risking, it loses its meaning. Since we aren't afraid to lose our lives, we are afraid to lose our gear. If you wear no gear, there's no excitement. If death costed player 1k caps, nobody would sure as hell spam locations over and over with his hh char.
I don't care if HH build gets 1 kill per 100 deaths because he still risked nothing and comes back to harass the geared players.
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Either way, HH is free weapon and you lose nothing if you die. That's against what pvp is based on.
Sorry to interrupt. I'm no unarmed expert but I think the solution is making HH work with only power fists.
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Either way, HH is free weapon and you lose nothing if you die. That's against what pvp is based on. We can argue over details and strategies and present all sorts of what if situations but the fact is HH provides method to harass geared players without any risk of losing gear oneself. If fonline pvp wasn't based on risking, it loses its meaning. Since we aren't afraid to lose our lives, we are afraid to lose our gear. If you wear no gear, there's no excitement. If death costed player 1k caps, nobody would sure as hell spam locations over and over with his hh char.
I don't care if HH build gets 1 kill per 100 deaths because he still risked nothing and comes back to harass the geared players.
Next time try reading, only way to kill is with powerfist, which is no easier to farm than any of the gear you use. PVP players have huge stockpiles of gear so don't go whining about how hard it is to get, pretty much everything is easy to farm if you know how so the loss isn't much more significant. If a build that has a 1% success rate is OP by your standards you obviously misunderstand the concept of "over powered". Also if someone keeps respawning and coming back he is either weakened and low health or barehanded and not a real threat, I'd say logging fully geared alts from wm (which is allowed) is a way cheaper tactic. Never thought I'd see the day when burster tanks would be crying about unarmed chars being so powerful. Try learning how to play instead of blaming your lack of skill on game mechanics.
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Sorry to interrupt. I'm no unarmed expert but I think the solution is making HH work with only power fists.
+1
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Sorry to interrupt. I'm no unarmed expert but I think the solution is making HH work with only power fists.
I would prefer knock-down only on power fists, except for criticals which should always knock-down/knock-out.
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Next time try reading, only way to kill is with powerfist, which is no easier to farm than any of the gear you use. PVP players have huge stockpiles of gear so don't go whining about how hard it is to get, pretty much everything is easy to farm if you know how so the loss isn't much more significant. If a build that has a 1% success rate is OP by your standards you obviously misunderstand the concept of "over powered". Also if someone keeps respawning and coming back he is either weakened and low health or barehanded and not a real threat, I'd say logging fully geared alts from wm (which is allowed) is a way cheaper tactic. Never thought I'd see the day when burster tanks would be crying about unarmed chars being so powerful. Try learning how to play instead of blaming your lack of skill on game mechanics.
If gear is so easy to get, how come all HH chars I see wear no gear at all?
What I'm trying to explain to you is that if you yourself risk nothing, you shouldn't be able to inflict risk on others. It's like playing poker without putting any money yourself but still having a chance to win what your opponent bets. Would you agree on such terms?
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If gear is so easy to get, how come all HH chars I see wear no gear at all?
What I'm trying to explain to you is that if you yourself risk nothing, you shouldn't be able to inflict risk on others. It's like playing poker without putting any money yourself but still having a chance to win what your opponent bets. Would you agree on such terms?
Look if someone manages to kill you HH with no weapons the deserve a medal and you deserve to be shamed. As i've explained to you over and over again, the only way to be successful is with powerfist. Only time ive been pked by heavy handed the guy was using a powerfist and if he hadn't been able to kill me in 4 punches he would have died. I've had people try to do it unarmed and they failed miserably. You don't know a build until you've made it, stop opening you mouth about things you know nothing about.
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Avv is totally right, you have no idea what are you talking about Roachor. Ive seen numerous unarmed trolls doing just fine when they caught someone whether just by luck or some tricky move.
Strangely, I havent seen any power fist unarmed players - what for ? You deal decent damage even without it and can come back in 2 minutes, with full hp, if killed. All you need is decent FA with blessed are the weak perk.
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Avv is totally right, you have no idea what are you talking about Roachor. Ive seen numerous unarmed trolls doing just fine when they caught someone whether just by luck or some tricky move.
Strangely, I havent seen any power fist unarmed players - what for ? You deal decent damage even without it and can come back in 2 minutes, with full hp, if killed. All you need is decent FA with blessed are the weak perk.
I'd like to know what version of fonline you are playing where unaimed unarmed attacks do decent damage. If you have decent FA and blessed you aren't a sneaker so you should have 0 chance of getting within 1 hex of anyone. All your experience is from the wrong side of this to have a valid opinion, 2-3 encounters with a HH build is not comparable to playing it yourself. Unless you yourself are bluesuit most of the damage is absorbed, some bs killing you when you weren't paying attention is your fault, any other combat build would kill you under those circumstances too. Hell unarmed doesn't even have access to it's tier 3 weapons, if i could get a mega powerfist I'd use that put instead i use crappy regular one because it doubles my damage output and reduces dt. But then you'd complain even more about unarmed builds 2 shotting you when thats the same as most endgame combat builds but with more risk. 900 dmg gatling crits are op, HH is one of the few balanced things in this game.
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I'd like to know what version of fonline you are playing where unaimed unarmed attacks do decent damage. If you have decent FA and blessed you aren't a sneaker so you should have 0 chance of getting within 1 hex of anyone. All your experience is from the wrong side of this to have a valid opinion, 2-3 encounters with a HH build is not comparable to playing it yourself. Unless you yourself are bluesuit most of the damage is absorbed, some bs killing you when you weren't paying attention is your fault, any other combat build would kill you under those circumstances too. Hell unarmed doesn't even have access to it's tier 3 weapons, if i could get a mega powerfist I'd use that put instead i use crappy regular one because it doubles my damage output and reduces dt. But then you'd complain even more about unarmed builds 2 shotting you when thats the same as most endgame combat builds but with more risk. 900 dmg gatling crits are op, HH is one of the few balanced things in this game.
theres these weird things, called walls, that you cant see from the other side, and like people are there, and then they go to you and stuff and you're like on the ground
weird
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HH is one of the few balanced things in this game.
Sure , stonewall and quick recovery doesn't affect HH at all , very balanced. That trait is rather an annoyance than anything practical , balanced he says.
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Sure , stonewall and quick recovery doesn't affect HH at all , very balanced. That trait is rather an annoyance than anything practical , balanced he says.
That's a bug, it will be next update apparently. For pvp players you guys sure do whine a lot.
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That's a bug, it will be next update apparently. For pvp players you guys sure do whine a lot.
for someone who doesnt play pvp a lot, you guys sure do comment a lot.
It's not like we wouldnt have anything better to do than whine on the forum all day.
oh wait
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for someone who doesnt play pvp a lot, you guys sure do comment a lot.
It's not like we wouldnt have anything better to do than whine on the forum all day.
oh wait
For somebody who does pvp alot you sure troll alot. Not like we got anything better than to troll on the forum all day oh wait!
I don't know what thread it was but I read there was an idea where you have to get power fists or brass knuckles or something to be able to do heavy hand attacks. I think that is best idea so there is something to gamble than going in blue suit. HtH trolls are just irritating but it isn't something that is over powered and wins pvp fights. At least if it required power fists there is an extra step than to just get to level 6 with 100-150% skill points in unarmed.
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next update
Dat slaps me on the knee.