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[brendan]

Best solution is simple: fix the goddamn speed!
Really, with 10ST you are probably not going to have max amount of action points if you also want some other things. And without your action points you should be outrun.

You forgot that you're not using AP while running. Not in RT at least.

[Luther Blissett]

That's exactly the point. It's one of the bits where TB/RT don't translate to each other very well at all. There's plenty of creatures (and obviously players) which move far too slow/fast in real time compared to in turn based. In real time, a slow hulk of a man with low agility runs as quickly as a light and agile one. Ideally those AP would relate somehow to number of squares moved per second or something suchlike. However, I think it's not something that can be fixed easily, as I think the movement and animation speeds are set for sprite types as a whole, rather than being controllable by stats.

[Wallace]

Well i fought many times in many threads over RT speed to be equal to APs/Agi

So far it's the lost cause... Devs answer on this "the running animations would look weird". Coz it's better to have a smooth animations in a graphicaly outdated game rather than have it balanced...

[Solar]

That's not true. We said it was impossible.

Although I think this was actually made possible whilst I was off reproducing, so hopefully will happen in some form

[Tomowolf]

Does the heavy handed work for Melee weapons I got like 10 str test char and didnt score any kd on npcs...

[Nexxos]

That is the most ridiculous thing i've heard in a long time! You want to trade a banefit of a trait for another negative aspect? As a HtH fighter you have enough trouble already with getting point blank to your enemy. Knockback would make things even worse

Knockback doesn't necessarily mean that you'll go flying 1281612 hexes backwards from one simple punch. The same knockback as you would get from frag grenades, not necessarily moving around, just... delaying and keeping you immobile.

[Wallace]

Knockback doesn't necessarily mean that you'll go flying 1281612 hexes backwards from one simple punch. The same knockback as you would get from frag grenades, not necessarily moving around, just... delaying and keeping you immobile.

Ohhh... That makes more sense if knockback would equal 0 (In Your Face! would become obsolete otherwise).

Still... Why change something that is balanced? (HtH fighters still have no chance ant fair distance or at catching their prey/attackers but at least they now have a means to defend themselves)

That's not true. We said it was impossible.

Although I think this was actually made possible whilst I was off reproducing, so hopefully will happen in some form

I definatley remember my quote being an answer to the RT movement balance problem...
I'll do some searching and let ya know...

Edit: Found it; http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=19164.msg160133#msg160133
(my bad i thought a dev said it while he was a mod)

[Crazy]

Still... Why change something that is balanced?

Nice joke.

(HtH fighters still have no chance ant fair distance or at catching their prey/attackers but at least they now have a means to defend themselves)

Defend themselves? The can beat any player/NPC to death without much trouble... With high AC and jinxed they can't be hit before they come close.

[Wallace]

Nice joke.

Place points before sneering my good sir

Defend themselves? The can beat any player/NPC to death without much trouble... With high AC and jinxed they can't be hit before they come close.

And once thay stand still, they are meat... Plus the trick with pawning NPC works ONLY when there's a single NPC


EDIT: actually the feature might not be perfectly balanced but it sure added great deal of balance to the equation between chances of HtH fighters and gunners. <- That's my idea of balance in this case

[JovankaB]

Defend themselves? The can beat any player/NPC to death without much trouble...

No they can't, unless you will let them come close. You can run away from them without much trouble.
Why some players think that fights must always end with dead people on ground? -.- It's not deathmatch.

"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious." - Sun Tzu

And any 2 people, even bluesuit taxi alts can kill a HH build easily.

[GroeneAppel]

Nice joke.
Defend themselves? The can beat any player/NPC to death without much trouble... With high AC and jinxed they can't be hit before they come close.

Yes that 90 AC is going to help them allot when they are 3 hexes away from their target with a minigun. and about jinxed. jinxed causes crit failures for the user aswell. and since most hh hth are 1 luck well...

I'm happy that hh finnaly has some use. hth will never be good pvp wise, but there is no need to crush it in the ground any further.
Concerning punching any npc to death. Yes you are right! this is a problem! How do we solve it? why not give bos/enclave or other strong things stonewall perks etc? (whenever this becomes possible anyway) And why doesn't armor help against knockdown? It protects again'st crits yes. but a simple crit mauser bullet to the torso can still make somoene in CA be knocked down.

The whole problem I have with nerfing is that it tends to do more than solve a single problem. It tends to make some things usseles. Instead, you take a better look at the said problem and see if you can add slight (deserved) buffs to often used objects in this situation to make it more fair. for example metal armor or better could force a str -5 roll to avoid knockdown when punched. This is actually similar to what solar mentioned before. but it's more the other way around, which I think is better solution than always applying a roll -5. (you could even balance it further by applying eg: str -2 when wearing leather, -3 when wearing metal etc etc.)

[JovankaB]

Unless we will see armies of HH in TC, it's not overpowered.

TC people always use the most effective builds and some whining that someone
had to run away with bluesuit farmer on tobacco plantation won't change it.

[Crazy]

Yes that 90 AC is going to help them allot when they are 3 hexes away from their target with a minigun.

90AC is not for long, soon it's gonna be 220AC. With -220 skill, your minigun at 3 hex prolly won't even have 95%...

and about jinxed. jinxed causes crit failures for the user aswell. and since most hh hth are 1 luck well...

Jinxed can cause crit failure only when you miss in a first place. The HtH will have 95% ToHit. Everyone else prolly not with 220AC.

No they can't, unless you will let them come close.

I can imagine many way for HtH to got close to you : waiting in a building, around a corner, being a sneak... And once they hit you, I am pretty sure your chance to get back on your feet are really low. Not mentioning there can be two bluesuit HH against you, if they play well, one hit and you're dead, whatever your stuff.

And once thay stand still, they are meat..

Only if there is someone else.

Plus the trick with pawning NPC works ONLY when there's a single NPC

Or if there is as much HH than NPCs.



And, obviously, all of the above in bluesuit without weapon. Yeah, it's very balanced right now...

Thanks god Solar noticed something is wrong and will nerf it enough for it to be useful, but not ultimate whenever it come to duel or at least as much bluesuit HH as opponents.

[DocAN.]

there wont be 220AC, 90 is cap. All You can get is 90 AC in CA while running, nothing more.

If You ask why? For same reason why there is only 95% chance to hit.

[RJ]

Does the heavy handed work for Melee weapons I got like 10 str test char and didnt score any kd on npcs...

Of course not since this update didnt add anything nice for melee weapons. Some changes hopefully will be made to finally start to balance between unarmed and melee.

About Heavy Handed itself:
I tested (1-2 days ago) heavy handed - 10 ST char attacking char with 10 ST and 10 EN with Stonewall. Somehow 99% of hits were knocking him down so I am not sure if it's a bug or just imbalanced feature.