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[A concerned wastelander]

What do you think of the auto knock down from heavy handed?

It seems to me its far too abusable, I mean, once a heavy handed punch you, its over unless you have a friend to save you, since he will be able to get back is action points while your on ground and punch you again in a never ending loop.

Maybe just set it so that you have a chance of knocking down your target (lets say 50%?), but not 100%.

[Kelin]

If stonewall helps against every knockdown caused by heavy handed, then it's ok.

[Swinglinered]

It is not 100%.

[A concerned wastelander]

Maybe im wrong but by what i saw (maybe 20-30 punchs), it is 100%, and stonewall doesnt help.

Edit, doesnt help i meant.

[Wallace]

What i think? I can finally stand up against some PKs while i do mining!

Even on 1 on 1 fights i'm not always the last man standing so quit your whining! You're good at fighting at range and i'm good at fighting point blank... Nothing's wrong with that

[A concerned wastelander]

Please, we are having a mature conversation, no need to acuse me of whining, how old are you?

[Prometheus Pithras]

if you are tough enough (10 en, + quick rec and or stonewall) you shit on heavy handed

[Eraus]

Yeah nothing wrong in that(read it in sarcastic voice). Im with my friend made two hv handed chars and was running around the world beating friendly NPC if they was 2 or alone, so two 4 lvls guys beated to death enclave and BOS, super muties too. It wasnt very worth our time but was fun, sometimes caught high lvl guy and beated to death. From one hv handed guy is possible to escape but need to run when you get up, its impossible to regen ap and fight back, from 2 guys its impossible to run out, even enclave with APA and 700 hp dont survived. It must be fixed like 50 % chance to knockdown or smth simlar, because your high lvl champ cant do anything but run from hv handed noob, unless u have stonewall, and thats stupid and illogic that you must run from just created random alt with hv handed trait, of course he will only tickle you and you must wait to get up, but if there is more than one, you just can pray for double 5% 5% miss.

Conclusion:
So why this trait looks broken to me? Because it gives possibility to troll on high lvl chars with very low lvl chars without any gear.

[Giaxa]

If you dont like it then run...at least you can run from one guy...not very much when someone kills you from distance in one shot.

[pistacja]

Play in TB ;P

75% knockdown would still be ok or En or St throw to counter.

[Solar]

Stonewall needs to beat HH. It will do when fixed.

I also think I will have HH work as Str -5 instead of a Str roll, then ignore the -5 if using a PF or MPF ... so its not quite so good when using naked fists.

[Crazy]

Stonewall needs to beat HH. It will do when fixed.

I also think I will have HH work as Str -5 instead of a Str roll, then ignore the -5 if using a PF or MPF ... so its not quite so good when using naked fists.

THAT is a good idea!

[Nobody]

What do you mean by beat? Negate it completely or just lower the chance?

[Solar]

I mean if the HH and stonewall rolls were both passed, the stonewall effect would be enacted

[Wallace]

I mean if the HH and stonewall rolls were both passed, the stonewall effect would be enacted

That is a good idea. It should be so that stonewall would work in this case. I had similar idea;
Whoever rolls higher wins for example we have 8EN stonewaller and 7STHeavyHander
HH rolls 2 and stone rolls 7.  Both pass the check but HH passed with greater bufor thus he wins = K.D.

If HH would roll 5 and tank 6 = tie -> defender wins (stonewaller)

HH doesnt pass and stonewall passes check then obviously still stands


You don't need to further nerf it coz you simply may run away from pugilist so i see HHs as an opportunity to even the odds (pre wipe every HtH fighter would be pawned by any gunner)