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Author Topic: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?  (Read 12392 times)

Drakonis

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Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« on: April 19, 2010, 11:34:26 am »

Ok, so I decided to give the game another try and I promised to myself: "NO MORE ALTING" :D.

My goal: Create a self-sufficent character that could craft MEDIUM TIER equipement and still be able to compete with so popular powerbuilds.

This is my result:

I didn't want to create a jack of all trades. I am aware that current limitations and lvl cap is kinda here to prevent making a character suitable for every action... BUT look at the image- as you can see I specialized only in 2 skills, and with average 5 intelligence I CANT DO SHIT ON MAX LVL.

I wanted to created a medium tier crafter that could run sneak and shot pretty efficently, while having durbality of a powerbuild. What did I got? A character that can't even craft advanced gunpowder since I would need 80% science(have 70 just for second profession of small guns), A character that can't efficently sneak(tagged), a character that can't effectively shot(tagged)- especially with obviosuly LOW 6 perception.


I might have HP of a powerbuild but still- My efford on making a MAIN character that would NOT required alting to craft my shit is absolutely unrewarded, because I still can't really compete with powerbuilds at ANY lvl besides HP and damage resistance.

Am I a jack of all trades that can do lots of things but aint good at anything? Sorry but that's bullshit talking- I am a character that can do only very few things in this game and still isn't good at them AT ALL. I mean come on- I can't doctor, I can't avoid encounters good, I can't first aid, I can't melee, i can't throw stuff, I can't carry much, I can't shot good at mediums/long distances, I can't barter/speech/gamble, I can't lockpick, I can't set any traps, I can't make drugs and medicaments, I can't steal stuff, I can't repair anything(even tho it's tagged), I can't sneak effecively, I can't use any weapons besides small guns, I can't craft myself a sniper rifle, I can't carry enough scorpion tails to make ONE antidote, I can't  take all quests, I can't transport even medium groups of people, I can't have many followers... I can't do shit with my max level character. Obviously the ONLY way to be good at something is to create an alt or a powerbuild for it. Seriously guys.

Solutions to problem?:
-Make a powerbuild, Create a crafting alt, Craft weapons and ammo to supply and train a character that can at least compete MAJORITY of players. I mean... what will stop me? 10 minutes timeout? It's sad that if I choose to be balanced character that could enjoy many aspects of Fonline I need to get over that my ass will be kicked in PvP all the time :(

Real solution?:
- Give bonuses for being a specialist(it was allready suggested)
  Like for every level of Guns Profession you get +1 perception when determining accuracy shooting range with weapons you specialise in.
  Or 4% damage resistance +1 DT for every level of armorer.
  + 15 HP for doctor level etc etc
  That would reward people who would not want to alt, but simply enjoy their MAIN character- yep because Powerbuild can't really specialize in anything - they simply can't take any professions if they want to maintain power.

Other solution?:
Change the game entirely so we don't get "skill point per level" but like in Morrowind= we get good at what we do the most. Of course limitations would be requied but that's why we can TAG skills right?

Let's say for tagged skill we get 100% exp per action(First Aid Experiance, Throwing experiance, etc etc) and maximum lvl of our skill is 300( should take months-or years to achieve)

For non tagged skill we would get 50% exp per action and maximum lvl of non tagged skill would be ~150%- This level should be VERY HARD to achieve(weeks of repeating actions), bet getting untagged skills to moderate values like 60-70% should THAT hard...
 Example: It doesn't make sense that My character has spend years in wastelands, tavelling a LOT and still is about 30% outdoorsman, simply because I didn't put any skill points there= My character survived many encountes and had many adventures but didn't learn ANYTHING on how to avoid some of encountered problems? By the time I hit lvl 21 i should be at least 50% outdoors just from travelling a lot. Getting it to 60% would take next weeks of playing

The other solution would be best for the game itself- Would increase 2238 liveliness, kill alting(because making a good for fighting crafter would be POSSIBLE- however it would require TIME and EFFORD to % up untagged skills). Every wastelanders should be some kind of a jack of all trades- that may be ok in many things, but can be good only in his tagged skills.


Yea.. i know it's not what fallout was like... But I think I pointed source of alting problem pretty good(once again: it's impossible to create a character good at its specialization whenever it crafting/pvp/sneaking/doctor if it's not a powerbuild DESIGNED and DEVOTED for various action). Eh I suppose even increasing skills point's per lvl and/or lvl cap could partially solve the problem... At the moment if you wan't to be actually good/competitive in what you wish to do... unfrotunately you need an alt/powerbuild for it. Otherwise you will suck at everything and be SUCKY your tagged skills.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 11:43:24 am by Drakonis »
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vedaras

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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 11:43:02 am »

so you complain because you cant have sniper with 250 hp and be good crafter dude...

Drakonis

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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 11:45:18 am »

so you complain because you cant have sniper with 250 hp and be good crafter dude...

I don't complain. I'm pointing a problem: Why people simply go for powerbuild + alt.

Why would I complain if I can simply reroll a powerbuild shooter and a crafting alt JUST LIKE I DID BEFORE= and still have my sniper crafter that can kill/shot/sneak and be 250hp


Powerbuild + alt = Jack of all trades.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 11:48:32 am by Drakonis »
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virus341

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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 11:53:52 am »

I can't see your point: you don't want play with alts anymore, ok don't play :)
A lot of players will play with a lot of alts whatever the RPG system is, just because...why not? Those who have no time\ability\desire\whatever to make alts won't make em.

Shangalar

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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 11:58:02 am »

Btw, your build is really bad to me. If you wanna proove it's impossible to make only one char and be competitive, please try to build it correctly.

Sarakin

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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2010, 12:09:10 pm »

Btw, your build is really bad to me. If you wanna proove it's impossible to make only one char and be competitive, please try to build it correctly.
+1
Since when sniper (or whatever your char is ) needs 10 EN + 2x lifegiver ?
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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2010, 01:27:46 pm »

I don't get it. You wanna use only one char and you choose 10 EN, tag Sneaking.. Why so? I think these things are for those who have a clear vision of specialist char. which is good almost only for one thing. I bet the Sneaking won't even pay off, especially with 150% in it. Btw. if you think Sneak will pay off, why don't you just take few points from it and put them into Science or whatever? I think you won't feel the difference so often.

Btw. my first char is capable of prof. SG lvl 3, Armorer lvl 1 and can shoot quite good with average hitpoints, 12 AP and BRoF on lvl 21. Last time I met a player when I was lvl 8 in random encounter I killed him using grease gun and 10mm SMG (me in Leather Jacket, he was wearing Metal MK2 and had a LSW). Ofc it was also about luck and me shooting first (I'm not a PK, but I don't want to afford taking the risk of not shooting into BG Guy in metal), but I guess it's a part of the game. I won't have such luck next time, or maybe yes, dunno. ;)
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Solar

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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2010, 01:30:33 pm »

Agreed with the three above.

My soon to be BG3 girl (just need the $$) is a reasonable PvP char on level 15.

2 toughness, 1 BRD, lifegiver, BRoF - Action Boy and BRD to come. Fast Shot and Small Frame.

100% Sci, 120% Repair, 100% outdoors, 155% BG (and 115 more skill points to go into this).


Can make all the Advanced MP/GP/Alloy, 10 AP without drugs, 2 BRD, BRoF, Lifegiver on level 12 and 6 En. Only slighlty under a perfect PvP build and is top tier of crafting.
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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2010, 01:39:13 pm »

That's why PvP-build and crafter only difference is HP. I mean Endurance. Crafters sacrifice this stat for IN and/or CH and/or stats for prof. Also 1 CH is possible too, so they have a bit less EN, but more IN.
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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2010, 01:39:38 pm »

Agreed with the three above.

My soon to be BG3 girl (just need the $$) is a reasonable PvP char on level 15.

2 toughness, 1 BRD, lifegiver, BRoF - Action Boy and BRD to come. Fast Shot and Small Frame.

100% Sci, 120% Repair, 100% outdoors, 155% BG (and 115 more skill points to go into this).


Can make all the Advanced MP/GP/Alloy, 10 AP without drugs, 2 BRD, BRoF, Lifegiver on level 12 and 6 En. Only slighlty under a perfect PvP build and is top tier of crafting.
Heh you've got very similar char to mine, ofc with the difference in gun skill and fast shot, Outdoors instead of Barter (now I doubt about the Barter, with the vendors lists.. but no big problem for me). I've got even the exactly same 115 spare SP which I will decide to invest later. :) And I think this is the way for people who don't have enough time to make many alts and want to enjoy many aspects of the game.
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Solar

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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2010, 01:45:31 pm »

Aye, I don't have time to make supporting alts, so each char automatically has to be able to provide for his or her self. Its really not hard to achieve.

Only real problem I have is trying to make Ch char that can still do everything without alts, or building an intentionally bad char and still competing (for example 10 En 5 Int sneak tagged).

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Shangalar

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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2010, 01:56:44 pm »

If you mean leader of men (about 9 charisma + magnetic P) and not just 3 cha for quests and comfort, the only weapon type to be competitve is big guns, mainly rocket launcher, with low agility and luck. I never managed to make a good leader with energy or SG so far.

About crafter char, I got one who is sg crafter lvl3, good thief, good barter, got 150 outdoor, can carry lot of stuff (even if it's not so much needed since last update), and can fight using pancor and mercenaries. It's not worth a pure pvp char of course, but it just means that you can play and be auto sufficent with 1 or 2 characters only.
Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2010, 02:08:39 pm »

Btw, your build is really bad to me. If you wanna proove it's impossible to make only one char and be competitive, please try to build it correctly.

That's why i am trying, not to show it's impossible but because i was unaware you should have 200% of something to make a basic action with this skill.
lv9 he is not so bad to me and exept from PVP situation i manage a bit the game, in fact right know if you exept PKs who kill it in one hit, and thief i can't do anything, it dont run that bad.

Ok there are some silly things, i can't repair my stuff which is a pain, and they deteriorate quit fast. I have taken packrate cause of what you said, can't carry 5 radscorpion tails at a time, it's kind of a pitty, it's more weight than iron ore ...

The fact to me now is not that you can't play, but basicaly you can't go out of guarded cities, cause the wastelands are finally quite sure untill you see another player, cause they are mainly quite stupid and have nothing more to do than shooting blue suits or attacking traders cause it's fun. (got it again yesterday after i FA one ...)

i think here what should be considerer is that you absolutly need 200 in each skill to do something, that is really a nonsense, you should be able to repair 10mm pistols on every attempt with 100% and maybe 120 for deagle (20% harder cause it's on tier up).
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 02:10:16 pm by Midnight »
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Wichura

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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2010, 02:13:26 pm »

Drakonis - your char will die like 100 times while travelling from NCR to Vault City. 30% Outdoorsman don't let you avoid even scorpions.


2 lvl Small Guns, 2 lvl Armorer, 4-person taxi (fast) with large trunk (101 carry weight), P90/Combat Shotgun user, can repair some guns.
Anything wrong with that? Yeah, sucks completely in PvP and with 1 LK he sometimes falls down in combat. Also I've made a mistake tagging FA - I should pick Repair instead.

Why people are using alts? Dunno, I had one only once before the wipe to repair stuff. But I think if you want to be "the best" (whatever that means) you need 3 lvl Small/Big/Energy Guns crafter, 3 lvl Armorer crafter, a taxi/barter char, rock-digger. You simply can't do it with one char, no matter how hard you will try.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 02:15:09 pm by Wichura »
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Re: Why powerbuilds + alts are so popular?
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2010, 02:22:40 pm »



I'm a crafter too ;p
The only bad thing is <200 HP and can't Doc+FA, that's why I'm not PvP-build.
Alting is boring and isn't neccesary, because you can communicate with other people/buy from NPC, and crafting EVERYTHING is really more boring, than buying, you can easy play without alts and do some PvP and crafting at the same time with only one character.


Edit:
Drakonis - your char will die like 100 times while travelling from NCR to Vault City. 30% Outdoorsman don't let you avoid even scorpions.
About outdoorsman, you don't need this skill anymore, till someone nerf sneak again, or alteast make impossible to go into sneak mode at Wroldmap, and automatically leave sneak mode at exit grid, so you can't be invisible instantly at encounter. Because you can tag Sneak instead of Outdoorsman and easily walk with 20% outdoorsman don't caring about anything. Noone will see you, so... what's a problem?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 02:40:23 pm by RavenousRat »
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