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[avv]

Removing the level cap would wreak havoc on the balancing though, and is a terrible idea. It was seen clearly in TLA before they introduced a level cap, where "god characters" would roam towns killing everything on their own.

Yes it's terrible idea, that's why we gotta think of another way.

If you just kept playing a single dude, doing various stuff like quests, crafting, pve and pvp you would collect some sort of alternative exp or reputation that you could spend to special benefits. You had to do all of those, not only one to get the benefits. You could have weight on one of them more than others, but doing all of them at least a little would be necessary.

What would these benefits be? Temporary buffs to stats and skills, temporary perks, unique items depending on your profesion and unique companions.

Where would you get them? From npc factions.

What exactly was needed to do for them? Various stuff. Let's say you're ncr ranger. Rangers want you to kill slavers, you get ranger +rep by killing slaver players and slavers, freeing slaves, waging war against metzger, providing rangers with weapons, medicine and amors that you craft. You couldn't just grind slaver encounters because the +rep from doing it would diminish, so you'd have to craft some weapons or armor. Crafting weapons and armor doesn't help because the +rep production diminishes from all crafting, so you'd better just craft highest tier weapons, armor or medicine. Once you can't get much more rep from those two above, you should go hunt some slaver or raider players, but you can't hunt them forever because +rep from them would diminish too.

Now that you've got some +rep you can buy a temporary benefit from the rangers. You lose it when you die, so don't die, better team up with other rangers.

If you die in the hands of slavers or other enemies of rangers, you lose your rep and status in their eyes. And don't even try to ~cuttheveins, because the rep is lost when you lose your Ranger star badge, but you won't get any +rep when not wearing it. This badge will make others able to recognize you as Ranger.

This would keep lvl21 dudes busy forever, I guess.

[Solar]

Before this gets spammed to death with message after message like the other ones.

Its possible to have a tier 3 profession and still build a very capable combat char. Let's not lose sight of this when the massive essay posts arrive.

[Alvarez]

Before this gets spammed to death with message after message like the other ones.

Its possible to have a tier 3 profession and still build a very capable combat char. Let's not lose sight of this when the massive essay posts arrive.

Should we discuss it in IRC, then?

[avv]

Before this gets spammed to death with message after message like the other ones.

Its possible to have a tier 3 profession and still build a very capable combat char. Let's not lose sight of this when the massive essay posts arrive.

Yes it's possible but the point is that the game encourages players to make alts. Imagine if we were to write new manual for new players. What would they think if the manual told the truth and read that alts are major part of the game and every player who wants to maximize their production and effectiviness should create them.

[Badger]

What would these benefits be? Temporary buffs to stats and skills, temporary perks, unique items depending on your profesion and unique companions.

We need stuff like this. Stuff that you work for and people can't take away from you. Stuff that's practical, interesting, unique or, hell, even just a status symbol. Stuff besides your character's level that is a measure of your progress in the game. Stuff that you can't lose, either. If it's easily lost it'll just sit in a base or a locker. Which is part of why I want cars unstealable.

This is why I suggest respawning companions. Companions only obtainable through a quest which requires a lot of skill in a certain area, like science, which will go some way to offsetting your disadvantage in PvP. Robobrains for science, Medics for doctor, Robots for repair, etc.

[Solar]

Yes it's possible but the point is that the game encourages players to make alts. Imagine if we were to write new manual for new players. What would they think if the manual told the truth and read that alts are major part of the game and every player who wants to maximize their production and effectiviness should create them.

Oh, it could be expanded upon greatly, indeed. I just don't like how these threads derail themselves into wholesale changes when there's not really the need.

[Frosti]

Game is very alt depending this is fact. And this separates players for those who can evade relog timer + multiclient/multibox and for those who can not.

If you intend to play just 1 character all you can do is stay in guarded town and sometime kill few scorpions.

[Tyler]

Thats a very interesting build you got there Drakonis.I think you have just demonstrated for all of us how not to make a combat crafter.

I always wondered why devs and gm's dont just make it a rule for fonline that alts are encouraged but only to a certain extent.Post it in the rules that the max characters anyone can have is 3 and inforce it hardcore.Treat it as dual logging with bans ( no jail time because thats really such a joke ) and take no bullshit on the subject.As we have seen many times before people will always do the exact opposite of what they are told but at least its a start.I know Devs and Gm's take alot shit from players ( myself included ) but maybe its time to really start cracking down on bullshit.

For anyone that thinks all you can do as a crafter is kill scorps and rats,well i call bullshit.My medic with 150 in sm guns rapes the shit out of almost any encounter on the map.Ive been spending the last few days since xp was retuned to us on getting rich around San Fran on caravns,mercs,and press gangs,and ive been doing it solo.In between making teir 3 meds for my friends and healing people Ive managed to become quite rich so give it a try before you decide powerbuilds are the only life in fonline.

[Dark Angel]

Why alt + powerbuilds are so popular ?
But everyone want some PVP / PVE / or fun from Pking / killing people in NCR .. so they creating first Barter alt , For example second is 2 lvl bigguner + 2 armorer and last powerbuild character  .First mission is dug lot of junk / HQ / normal ore / and other supplies. Second is  Crafting a lot of shit from supplies ... And last is PVP / PVE / PK etc... by gun + ammo / armor . There is lvl limit & no Organisation with people ..  * ( i dont thing they want only dug shit , second will crafting and last will take it and shoot ^^)

DRAKONIS :


 it good build for SMG not for sniper ... with fast shot + BROF + BRD ( not more crit + better  crit ) will be better...


//

Why Powerbuild on evil killing ? Bad it have on 21 lvl big hp  , evil hit + skill , practical skill ( FA when he wounded , Doc when he weak / damaged , crippled . )

For example .



14 lvl ... not bad

[_Youkai_]

"no more 200+ sg snipers. Forces players to spend their skillpoints on something else and won't let them become too accurate. "
hauHuahuhauhauhua













are you serious?

[trollshade13]

some thing I saw once was
twas in FF X-2, blitzball

training in one Stat improved that stat, decreased a few other stats (though not as much)
and a slight improve in other stats

for example, using energy weapons could improve his energy weapons skill, his science skill slightly (cause of high tech)
but impair his, outdoorsman (they said tech makes ours bond with nature weaker)

problem is, the linking part, what skills should decrease, which should increase?

but if succesfull, every person would be dynamic (skills wise)

[Wichura]

If you intend to play just 1 character all you can do is stay in guarded town and sometime kill few scorpions.

I've heard that you can start a gang with two friends and then one of them could be 3 lvl SG crafter, another 3 lvl Armorer, and you could be 3 lvl Doctor. 3 people - 3 chars. And they can kill something more than scorpions I guess.

Don't know much about PvP, maybe there you just have to fast relog on yet another powerbuild of sniper after being killed. Alts seem necessary in this case :>

[TommyTheGun]

I can't see your point: you don't want play with alts anymore, ok don't play
A lot of players will play with a lot of alts whatever the RPG system is, just because...why not? Those who have no time\ability\desire\whatever to make alts won't make em.

That one killed me.

So  people don't play cause lack of abilities. And whose who can't use just one char to be able to play = those talented, eh?

Nice thinking...

[Drakonis]

Why alt + powerbuilds are so popular ?
But everyone want some PVP / PVE / or fun from Pking / killing people in NCR .. so they creating first Barter alt , For example second is 2 lvl bigguner + 2 armorer and last powerbuild character  .First mission is dug lot of junk / HQ / normal ore / and other supplies. Second is  Crafting a lot of shit from supplies ... And last is PVP / PVE / PK etc... by gun + ammo / armor . There is lvl limit & no Organisation with people ..  * ( i dont thing they want only dug shit , second will crafting and last will take it and shoot ^^)

DRAKONIS :


 it good build for SMG not for sniper ... with fast shot + BROF + BRD ( not more crit + better  crit ) will be better...


//

Why Powerbuild on evil killing ? Bad it have on 21 lvl big hp  , evil hit + skill , practical skill ( FA when he wounded , Doc when he weak / damaged , crippled . )

For example .



14 lvl ... not bad

Yeah but.. Dude your char has 1 charisma. You cannot enjoy quests/ lead any friends, have a dog etc. Your build has also pretty low hp... I agree that your build is interesting but It still can't compete with popular PVP powerbuilds.

Thats a very interesting build you got there Drakonis.I think you have just demonstrated for all of us how not to make a combat crafter.

I always wondered why devs and gm's dont just make it a rule for fonline that alts are encouraged but only to a certain extent.Post it in the rules that the max characters anyone can have is 3 and inforce it hardcore.Treat it as dual logging with bans ( no jail time because thats really such a joke ) and take no bullshit on the subject.As we have seen many times before people will always do the exact opposite of what they are told but at least its a start.I know Devs and Gm's take alot shit from players ( myself included ) but maybe its time to really start cracking down on bullshit.

For anyone that thinks all you can do as a crafter is kill scorps and rats,well i call bullshit.My medic with 150 in sm guns rapes the shit out of almost any encounter on the map.Ive been spending the last few days since xp was retuned to us on getting rich around San Fran on caravns,mercs,and press gangs,and ive been doing it solo.In between making teir 3 meds for my friends and healing people Ive managed to become quite rich so give it a try before you decide powerbuilds are the only life in fonline.

OK ok, so you can walk around map and kill things with your 150% small guns. But again. you still are not competitive in PvP with 250+ HP toughness accurate bigguns tanks/snipers that WILL see you from much longer distance.. could propably simply sneak up like 5 hex next to you before they kill you in 1-2 turns.


I agree with everybody that it IS possible to create a crafter that still can fight pretty well. But "pretty well" is not enough when it comes to compete with other players. If you want to craft top tier items- your character has to be dedicated from the beggining in thi role- usually altering your hp, durbality, accuracy, crits, and overall survavibility... Why playing a crafter that can do "pretty well" in combat but still being raped most of of the time when you can just easly make a lvl 10 alt to craft your shit, and level up you powerbuild like just like others.

Alting is encouraged because it's fast, easy and maximizes your effectiveness both in crafting and combat. You no longer have to choose if you wanna be a GREAT crafter or a GREAT figher. You can be both, Just use this little shiny red registration button.

Possiblity to be a GREAT fighter and GREAT crafter with cost of big efford on leveling untagged skills to desired level would be more attractive, kill alts, and increase game liveliness. Wouldnt we all want to have motivation to play/grind/quest with our lvl 21 char? Dudes, if i knew that performing various actions would increase my various skills... I would just keep playing- even if the "training" would be taking days.

[Raegann]

OK ok, so you can walk around map and kill things with your 150% small guns. But again. you still are not competitive in PvP with 250+ HP toughness accurate bigguns tanks/snipers that WILL see you from much longer distance.. could propably simply sneak up like 5 hex next to you before they kill you in 1-2 turns.

Speaking about Sneaking reminds me of a quote
"The problem is, at the moment with the disabled features to hunt lags it is not really the right time to make new events, partly because of the heavy lags, the disabled Field of View and the unnerfed sneak."
by one of the devs or gms in the Events sub-forum.
I mean today what you say might be true and your 150 sneaking and silent run could do, but in few weeks the situation could be a little bit different. Ofc you can apply this on more mechanics, but I think such investment is much more unreliable than the characters proposed earlier by f.e. Solar and many others. I just don't want to see people make their "high" sneaking chars based on these threads and then whine on forum after things get back to "normal", how their 151% Sneaking char is now useless.
It's just about personal taste. If you think nowadays having 240+ HPs (when people having insta-kill/ cripple builds?), 151% Sneaking and Silent Run (when not clear, if the situation with Sneak will remain the same even when comparing today and tomorrow?) will give you real advantage, so you can have quite low values of PE, INT, Small Guns etc., then I think it's your choice and it's alright. Only time will show. Anyway I guess you can't say objectively, that your build is better for PvP with comparable craft capabilities than any other build posted in this thread. Everything is just a compromise. And I suppose it's not that bad, you can't have 90% PvP char and 100% crafter in one character. It just gives out more than 100%.
P.S.: Anyway there are still choices. Get some friend-crafter and make a PvP build, raise your INT and crafting skills.. and I suppose even many more.
P.P.S.: Btw. I even didn't need to craft anything more complex than 10mm JHP/ Shotgun shells so far and I have lvl 3 prof. items in my tent. Everything looted or exchanged/ bought from NPCs (and no, I'm not a part of some PK faction.. I'm a loner and even did kill only about one player so far, who was quite suspicious).