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Author Topic: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless  (Read 29686 times)

Surf

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #90 on: April 19, 2010, 12:50:28 am »

Bulldog, I understand your "disappointment", I also like to use Shotguns, or even use Shotguns in PvP. At the moment, they're really to weak imo.
And of course it's a bit boring seeing just 2-3 different weapon types being used seriously in PvP.
And I know you'll hate me to say this, but FOnline is still under development (and will stay like this for a long time) by some fine guys who do spent really alot of their spare time. There  are currently so many "construction sites", so many things to do, to create, to balance, to fix etc. So as I said you'll hate me for this - but we need to be more patient. ;) I'm sure someday we all can have a much more well balanced and developed FOnline - but it takes some time.

Bulldog

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #91 on: April 19, 2010, 12:57:59 am »

Bulldog, I understand your "disappointment", I also like to use Shotguns, or even use Shotguns in PvP. At the moment, they're really to weak imo.
And of course it's a bit boring seeing just 2-3 different weapon types being used seriously in PvP.
And I know you'll hate me to say this, but FOnline is still under development (and will stay like this for a long time) by some fine guys who do spent really alot of their spare time. There  are currently so many "construction sites", so many things to do, to create, to balance, to fix etc. So as I said you'll hate me for this - but we need to be more patient. ;) I'm sure someday we all can have a much more well balanced and developed FOnline - but it takes some time.

I apreciate, thanks, I guess this thread may be locked, keep up the good work, although there are many things to do, yet much has already been done, thanks.
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Surf

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #92 on: April 19, 2010, 01:13:16 am »

Since this thread is relatively free of spam and has a few good suggestions in it I don't see a reason to close it.
I don't wanted to be rude or stop the discussion, just wanted to make things clear, that stuff sometimes seems to be easier to develop than it is in reality. ;)

Bulldog

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #93 on: April 19, 2010, 03:07:04 am »

I don't insist on closing this thread, I just understood that you think that it's too early to implement shotgun changes)
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Solar

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #94 on: April 19, 2010, 01:07:46 pm »

I don't get it, if high tier shotguns are not going to be rabalanced in the neaest future, then when shall we get the perks rebalanced, and will this changes make this weapon class actually worth something in pvp? How much shall we have to wait for them? How many months, maybe years?

PS, oh well, back to the Avenger and sniper builds, other weapons have disadvantages and this ones don't... Why bother then, just leave the mausers and remove all the rest weapons from the game, who needs variety? Instead of feading us with some "possible future perk changes" it would be much better of you to actually do something, yeah-yeah we know it takes time, but as I see it, it's almost as essentual as solving the lag problem. Fucking tired of being surrounded with the same biulds and guns, give us a breath of fresh air.(I don't mean to insult anyone, but seriosly, people, come on, do something, at least try, you can always try for example to do something and see the results, if they are satisfying, then you've done the right thing, if not, well, try again.)

Pancor is inbetween a Minigun and Avenger for damage, costs half the price in terms of the weapon itself and 1/6th the price for the ammo. It is usable as it is. I don't currently have the time to play this through to prove it is so (I'm currently proving crafting rockets is fine - which it is, having crafted plenty of them by now ... its nice watching Centaurs explode) so its up to some enterprising player to remove range as a factor and PvP with a shotgun.

Perks will get rebalanced when they do, most of the time is being swallowed up by fixing up the lag/crash issues at the moment.
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Bulldog

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #95 on: April 19, 2010, 03:30:41 pm »

Pancor is inbetween a Minigun and Avenger for damage, costs half the price in terms of the weapon itself and 1/6th the price for the ammo. It is usable as it is. I don't currently have the time to play this through to prove it is so (I'm currently proving crafting rockets is fine - which it is, having crafted plenty of them by now ... its nice watching Centaurs explode) so its up to some enterprising player to remove range as a factor and PvP with a shotgun.

Perks will get rebalanced when they do, most of the time is being swallowed up by fixing up the lag/crash issues at the moment.

Solar, I don't need any BS about it's damage, I'm a high level shotgunner, I pvp a lot and I can compare the damage of a minigun, avenger and a pancor, just a hint:in most cases it takes 2-3 bursts from a minigun to kill a CA high hp player, and it takes 4-6 to kill the same person with a pancor, give it a thought.

PS if you still don't belive me, find me in game, I'll convince you with some simple tests, provide you with a CA and super stimpaks.

PS sorry if I sound rude at times.

And by the way, the last question, why should a gun that suffers such severe range penalties and have such an increadible crafting price have such shitty damage and be worse than most of the guns in game? An smg at point blank range causes more damage than this baby? Do you really want all the players just make their builds around BG and sniper(lazer) rifles? We all understand (I hope that everyone does) that meely builds are dead due to the fact that you are unable to fix the engine that way so that one could hit and run at the same time, but what stops you from fixing the shell modifiers or the pancor charecteristics? You've managed to change lot's of weapons, what stops you now, stubborness or what? I don't know about the rest of the players (beta testers actually) but I've build more than 5 different types of BG builds, a couple of snipers, meely builds (all lvl 21) and I'm sick of playing the same builds over and over again, I want to play Fonline, but it's a real pain to know that there is such a small list of available successful pvp builds, while having such great variety of weapons that you simply don't bother to compare/fix/think of them.

And yeah, you know what most of the BG guys try to do when they realise that I'm using a pancor? They laugh and run towards me to burst me at point blank, cause they know that a super high power close range weapon (pancor) deals silly damage, but their minigun/avenger/P90 deals way more, and not even at point blank range, at PB they are just deadly, they also(exept P90 maybe, havn't encountered many of those guys) deal a higher damage at not PB range. Just compare, I've had a duel a few hours ago, I've saved the log;

11:26:27 • X was hit for 41 hit points.
11:26:27 • X was hit for 38 hit points.
11:26:34 • You were hit for 93 hit points.
11:26:35 • X was hit for 45 hit points.
11:26:35 • You were hit for 99 hit points.
11:26:38 • X was hit for 58 hit points.
11:26:44 • X was hit for 45 hit points and was killed.

Here's the minigun, we were wearing the same type of armor. I remember someone said that pancor is almost as good as a minigun, right?

And yeah I know that one duel is nothing for the statistics, but hell, I can bring you lot's of logs and they are almost the same as this one is, although I'm not always that lucky as to strike first. I've killed him, it took me 3 turns, then his friend apeared and finished me off with another minigun.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 05:05:42 pm by Bulldog »
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Solar

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #96 on: April 19, 2010, 06:18:25 pm »

Quote
Solar, I don't need any BS about it's damage, I'm a high level shotgunner, I pvp a lot and I can compare the damage of a minigun, avenger and a pancor, just a hint:in most cases it takes 2-3 bursts from a minigun to kill a CA high hp player, and it takes 4-6 to kill the same person with a pancor, give it a thought.

PS if you still don't belive me, find me in game, I'll convince you with some simple tests, provide you with a CA and super stimpaks.

PS sorry if I sound rude at times.

Already told you, Pancors are inbetwen Miniguns and Avengers for damage. Simple as that.
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Bulldog

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #98 on: April 19, 2010, 08:52:32 pm »

Already told you, Pancors are inbetwen Miniguns and Avengers for damage. Simple as that.

Hm, inbetween, so you say that Pancor offers more damage than a Minigun and less than an Avenger?
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Solar

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #99 on: April 19, 2010, 10:01:24 pm »

Noone reads my maths *Cries* - (my post on page 3 shows the comparative levels of Pancor/Mini/Avenger)
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Quote from: Woodrow Wilson
If you want to make enemies, try to change something.
Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #100 on: April 20, 2010, 01:04:21 am »

How about adding this shotgun to the game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c


Also frag-12 rounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQYp9fOJ9VI
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 01:06:02 am by Gyper »
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Bulldog

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #101 on: April 20, 2010, 07:57:10 am »

Pancor - 18-29 (Average 23.5) 0 Damage mod => 23.5 Damage per bullet.
Avenger - 8 - 11 (Average 9.5) APammo 0.67 Damage mod => 6.365 Damage per bullet.

BoS CA DT - 8, DR - 40%

Pancor DRmod = 0% => (23.5 - 8)*0.6 = 9.3 Damage per bullet
Avenger DRmod = -35% => (6.365 - (1))*0.95 = 5.1 Damage per bullet

Pancor hits with 5 shells, 5*9.3 = 46.5
Avenger hits with ~13 bullets, 13*5.1 = 66.3

Pancor takes 6AP, Avenger takes 7AP so a fair comparison is 54.25 for the Pancor vs 66.3 for the Avenger (51 for the normal Minigun to compare)

Pancor costs $50 a shot, Avenger costs $354 and Minigun costs $265.5. Of course the range is lower, but we can't have every gun having equal range.


Well, what more do I have to say? If pancor is that good, why don't people use it? And yeah-yeah perks will be rebalanced (in a couple of years maybe) and for now, have fun with the BG builds that outrange and outdamage any weapon in game (exept sniper/lazer rifle range)

PS Congratulations, Solar, you've just made this server happy with another BG(me) ;D
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 12:22:53 pm by Bulldog »
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Solar

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #102 on: April 20, 2010, 01:02:15 pm »

Pft, you're about 2 months too late. All the cool kids are snipers now.
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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #103 on: April 20, 2010, 04:28:24 pm »

Simply add another ammo type for shootgun.

Actually we have the 12 gauge pellet ammo that make -5AC and could eventually have a little area (like in tactics).
Put a 12 gauge slug that make +5AC cause it's harder to aim and -20% DR like FMJ.

In reallife a kevelar can't stop a hunting slug from any shootgun, so Leather armor should not be able to, putting -20% DR would help a bit at high lv and letting the actual 12 gauge pellet will let noobs or non fighter have a shootgun for self defence.
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Bulldog

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Re: (report) shotguns in pvp-useless
« Reply #104 on: April 20, 2010, 05:56:24 pm »

Simply add another ammo type for shootgun.

Actually we have the 12 gauge pellet ammo that make -5AC and could eventually have a little area (like in tactics).
Put a 12 gauge slug that make +5AC cause it's harder to aim and -20% DR like FMJ.

In reallife a kevelar can't stop a hunting slug from any shootgun, so Leather armor should not be able to, putting -20% DR would help a bit at high lv and letting the actual 12 gauge pellet will let noobs or non fighter have a shootgun for self defence.

I like this idea (and actually any idea) that would somehow make shotguns better and more popular.
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