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Total Members Voted: 97

[Tomowolf]

... there isnt such a problem with an unarmoured guy with a powerfist being dangerous...

Instead powerfist, put heavy handed here please.

[T-888]

whole AC concept.

Maybe it was doomed from the very beginning if you thought that armor class is supposed to be the saving grace for melee characters as a gap closer. I'd say it was doomed, doesn't work very well weighting all opinions and how it looks in game.

Have you ever thought mixing armor class effect(at reduced rate) with some sort of additional damage resistances while upon wearing armor for melee/unarmed?

Oh yeah i wanted to remind you, start off where you left, remember thinking about heavy handed being 50% chance to KD with 10 STR for unarmed(weaponless) and higher better chance to KD with unarmed weapons in usage, like mega power fist really granting 100% and power fist maybe some 85% like that, i remember reading this idea from your posts.

[Ville]

Lowering the frequency of jinxed is also good idea, I think you should also still have all the doding and hth perks available but lower their AC affects to +5 only or something. I just think 220-240 is just way too much. I think the cap should go back to 120 or maybe 150 with all perks taken, just rework the numbers in the dodging and hth evade perks.


Also speaking of power fist didn't solar have the idea of heavy hand not working unless you have power fist equiped? I really liked that idea.

[Roachor]

Lowering the frequency of jinxed is also good idea, I think you should also still have all the doding and hth perks available but lower their AC affects to +5 only or something. I just think 220-240 is just way too much. I think the cap should go back to 120 or maybe 150 with all perks taken, just rework the numbers in the dodging and hth evade perks.

220 is the max, ac only starts having a noticeable effect around 160. That and the 2 20 ac perks are really shit value for a perk slot. Without kamikaze you'd have 120 ac max for non hth build which is basically useless. With kamikaze wearing armour has no effect since the -15% eats up
what little defense provided.

[Solar]

Instead powerfist, put heavy handed here please.

answered by:

Oh yeah i wanted to remind you, start off where you left, remember thinking about heavy handed being 50% chance to KD with 10 STR for unarmed(weaponless) and higher better chance to KD with unarmed weapons in usage, like mega power fist really granting 100% and power fist maybe some 85% like that, i remember reading this idea from your posts.

I don't think the AC concept was doomed. Fundamentally, allowing close range chars to get closer at a reduced rate is workable.

Let's at least wait until we're past the very first iteration. Especially when that only involved me making complete guesses

[avv]

Even 120 ac is too much. Snipers are highly dependent on good hitchance from maxrange. If high ac bg can just run to a sniper and open fire from burster maxrange (35 hex), sniper will never win. They are having hard times even now.
90 was ok, but bluesuit should have 0 ac always. Game shouldn't encourage not wearing armor at all. Armor penalties to ac could be removed completely to help builds that actually want to use gear.

Could also implement a rule that ac stops working at 5 hex range. This way nobody could run right next to you while you got 5% hitchance. There should always be a way to kill another player if you have a weapon that does enough damage.

[T-888]

Make guesses together with someone and compare yours.

I'd try decreasing armor class to 150 and then see how it turns out, 90 AC indeed was hardly usable for close quarter combat characters, but this number is just my guess (70 less AC seems like an appropriate dose of balancing) + lower chance for jinxed to occur at least 30% less, lost drop weapon, lost turn, critically missed happens very often in general.

...

I haven't seen any armor class powerbuild big gunners now with all 220 cap. Only some low health point bluesuits with miniguns witch aren't very practical. Take notice that kamikaze decreases damage resistances appropriately now and big gunner isn't able to use perks witch are meant to increase armor class for unarmed witch ultimately decreases the total and have to wear armor to be effective witch is more reduction of armor class.

I'd actually like to see some hybrid kamikaze sniper builds witch counters other sniper lines of just soaking up some of the first shots as misses, it's cool in my opinion. Players that use gear never were the problem remember.

[Solar]

What's been suggested on irc was tie in an AC drug, which seems reasonable to me. Perhaps 150 available normally, with 50 - 70 AC from the drug.

I also quite like the idea of the 5 hex limit, if you could time it so you got them in the 2->5 hex range when AC stops working and before in your face kicks in ... a little bit of micro

[T-888]

So you want to keep 220 in total? Adding armor class drug? Sixth drug to add to powerbuilds, more sophisticated builds to counter the increase of armor class, don't see how this will solve any issues here.

[avv]

What's been suggested on irc was tie in an AC drug, which seems reasonable to me. Perhaps 150 available normally, with 50 - 70 AC from the drug.

Any downsides from the drug? It has to have some or everyone will use it.

I also quite like the idea of the 5 hex limit, if you could time it so you got them in the 2->5 hex range when AC stops working and before in your face kicks in ... a little bit of micro

Thing about in your face: it's also used by trollbuilds who got nothing to lose and makes things way too random. If someone gets onehexed by burst, he needs to die or at least lose lots of hp. In that situation there is no room for random 50% complete miss because life and death are on the edge of razor blade. Reliable onehexing is good feature and shouldn't be touched with randomness.
Along with the unarmed buffs, we got tons of bluesuit unarmeds harassing against actually geared players and coming back all the time after being killed for the tenth time. Last session crit-snipers were considered trolls, now the trolls use no gear at all.

[JovankaB]

Any downsides from the drug? It has to have some or everyone will use it.

Original idea was that it would be connected to one of current AC perks,
you would get AC bonus from the drug if you had the perk (or from the perk, if you ate the drug, w/e).

[T-888]

50% (1/2 in the end of damage formula) less damage while being 1 hex sounds better and not random. By weighting some opinion i agree with avv.

Any downsides from the drug? It has to have some or everyone will use it.

Players just adapt builds to new drugs, as well those troll characters will, in the end the only downside will be the consumption of it, it is gone after using the drug.

Original idea was that it would be connected to one of current AC perks,
you would get AC bonus from the drug if you had the perk (or from the perk, if you ate the drug, w/e).

One less toughness, one more armor class perk + one more drug to involve to gain quite large amount of armor class boost even while using armor, i'd trade to that any day.

What in practice will happen, i will make a rocket launcher armor class build with 6 drugs(drug+that one perk should be enough from what i hear) and then snipers will really suck. Much whining on forums, demotivating etc. etc. why can't we stick to something solid?

I simply see the future if that makes you feel better.

[Roachor]

BG shouldn't be able to fire on anyone within 2 hex then since its a bulky and awkward weapon.

I'm more in favor of replacing AC with perks that give % to dodge. Like 3 stacking perks that give 20% chance to dodge. That way its effectiveness wouldn't be determined by range. 5 perks and a trait to have a single ability is way too much.

[Shangalar]

Put some Support Perk, that needs hth / melee high skill level and/instead of the AC perk ?

[T-888]

BG shouldn't be able to fire on anyone within 2 hex then since its a bulky and awkward weapon.

Sure and combat armor shouldn't be green because it's not good camouflage in the wasteland, and aiming with sniper rifle should randomly move your pointer once in a while to simulate harder aiming.