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[Solar]

Admittedly his feedback wasn't the most gentlemannish, but he has points.

Chrupek comes from a gang that did use mercs and did saw what they did to the gameplay.

And yet those points have been lost because he's been an arse. There's a lesson there kids.

[Johnnybravo]

So if you can grind much to get some kind of huge advantage...
Why can't you then buy cool stuff as well?
Let's say there is no problem of huge reward for unhealthy grind, fine it's dev decision. But then why reward only single playstyle?
Imagine you don't like NPCs (which pretty amount of players do), but you grind a lot, so you would like to buy for example rare gun or armor? (with similar limitations like not being recoverable or repairable)
Good, but you are then completely at mercy of player driven market, and even so, you are not at all getting what mercs give, even if you spend as much.

[avv]

If it cost $10,000 to suicide with 4 mutants off a level 1 char, then you reduce the problem if it costs $100,000 each time, there is a max of 3 of them and it requires a level 10+ char to do it.

But the point here is that once one gang starts doing it, other must do too or they will suffer a defeat. It's an arms race where the best grinder wins. Kind of a deal where a group of dedicated players are ready to go to incredible lengths to win and ruin the whole game for others in process.

However if the new economy is supposed to be somehow unforgiving, we'll see. Best grinder still wins.

By the way what's with mercs not giving any loot? It means that those who kill the mercs do not get any reward, like they normally would in terms of winner's loot. If it's to prevent players from taking merc's weapons and then dumping the mercs, you can still avoid that by buying the guns with some utter crap that's easy to get, like fnfals from Khans. Or stealing.

[Solar]

So if you can grind much to get some kind of huge advantage...
Why can't you then buy cool stuff as well?
Let's say there is no problem of huge reward for unhealthy grind, fine it's dev decision. But then why reward only single playstyle?
Imagine you don't like NPCs (which pretty amount of players do), but you grind a lot, so you would like to buy for example rare gun or armor? (with similar limitations like not being recoverable or repairable)
Good, but you are then completely at mercy of player driven market, and even so, you are not at all getting what mercs give, even if you spend as much.

You can, Avengers, Gatlings, BCA, CA II, etc are buy able but not craftable. They're pretty nice.

But the point here is that once one gang starts doing it, other must do too or they will suffer a defeat. It's an arms race where the best grinder wins. Kind of a deal where a group of dedicated players are ready to go to incredible lengths to win and ruin the whole game for others in process.

However if the new economy is supposed to be somehow unforgiving, we'll see. Best grinder still wins.

That is to suppose 3 Mutants are undefeatable. I'm not sure what the stats are at moment, I've been wanting to give all NPCs stats a good going over for a while though.

The economy should be harsh enough that repeatedly risking expensive mercs won't be something you can do forever.

[avv]

That is to suppose 3 Mutants are undefeatable. I'm not sure what the stats are at moment.

They are what I previously described as a bigger hammer to whack his enemies. While normal pvp char can equip for example max 25k worth of equipment, call it 25k Hammer, a mercleader can equip 100k Hammer. Normal pvp char can't get hammer of that magnitude, because 100k is just 4 25k hammers which he can't use at once.

But while we're at it may I ask what's the deal with build's relation to merc hps. The thing is, you have to gimp your char beyond playability to get good hp mercs. So if you're for example a slaver, you can't get good hp mercs, better not buy them at all. It'd fit the gameplay nicely if a slaver could buy decent mercs when he can afford them and uses slaves otherwise. Extends the playability of one char. But it's just not worth it due to low hp, best get the alt. 
If it's to prevent mercleaders from being imba fighters, it's out of the question because a slaver-level char isn't particularly fierce fighter. It's okay and playable though, unlike pure merc leader build.

[JovankaB]

That is to suppose 3 Mutants are undefeatable.

They never were, even 5x 600 HP mutants that took ages to level up.

The problem with bombing people near grid with rocket mercs is not a problem with mercs, it's a problem with auto-attack options and  0 second reaction time.

Remove "attack everyone" and "attack everyone except my friends" AI options and they will be ok.
That's what gang alts use to bomb people from grid.

[Solar]

I've no idea how the mercs stats are derived at the moment. I'd like them to be just given a range for each stat and then randomly roll them up when bought.

They never were, even 5x 600 HP mutatnts that took ages to level up.


The problem with bombing people near grid with rocket mercs is not a problem with mercs, it's a problem with auto-attack options and  0 second reaction time.

Remove "attack everyone" and "attack everyone except my friends" AI options and they will be ok.
That's what gang alts use to bomb people from grid.

Yes, that was my feeling (as well as the disappearing with owner)

[Wichura]

Remove "attack everyone" and "attack everyone except my friends" AI options and they will be ok.

There is also "attack everyone who isn't member of my faction". I used that for security purposes in hideouts, but I bet it works elsewhere too.

[JovankaB]

There is also "attack everyone who isn't member of my faction". I used that for security purposes in hideouts, but I bet it works elsewhere too.

There could be a dialog option "guard this place, kill any strangers", visible in dialog only if you are inside your private location (base/tent/mine...).

strangers would be:
- everyone except gang members/friends in base
- everyone except tent owner and people you share it with for tent
- etc

Also "kill all hostile NPCs" could be useful in encouters, besides these 2 the AI options do more bad than good.

[Wichura]

Sounds reasonable enough.

[Solar]

Would stop the need to delay their reactions too, might be the easier answer

[Chrupek]

And yet those points have been lost because he's been an arse. There's a lesson there kids.

Haha loool... but still, its one of your best arguments;)
you can always say someones complaining about game 'youre an arse, i dont talk with you'.
and people stop complaining! And keep playing. Thats how it works:) remember, close your eyes and keep pushing - youre always right:)

" hmm fonline is really crappy now... i should quit... but its because chrupek wasnt polite... ok im gonna play few next wipes. Maybe, someday, chrupeks gonna leave forum, and Solar would be happy enough to cooperate with players... worth a try. "

[Solar]

The echoing footsteps of a ban approaching. Delightful.

[avv]

I've no idea how the mercs stats are derived at the moment. I'd like them to be just given a range for each stat and then randomly roll them up when bought.

I think the stats are constant, but hitpoints vary alot. If you buy mercs with a char who has END, luck and cha1, you get totally ass mercs. If you max those 3 stats, you get the highest hp mercs possible and those are the kind of mercs people are after.

[Solar]

I'm sure we can sort the stats range before / soon after the wipe.