Shaders and effects

[Opera]

http://rudo-brody.pl/uploads/2011-12-17_1544.png

I'm impressed. It fits the environment perfectly and looks very much like a 2D sprite. Any chance to see Leather Jacket, Metal Armor and Combat armor with these shaders using also 100% zoom?

[baaelSiljan]

I'm impressed. It fits the environment perfectly and looks very much like a 2D sprite. Any chance to see Leather Jacket, Metal Armor and Combat armor with these shaders using also 100% zoom?

Thanks It is quite tricky now, it shouldn't be in such shader. We are thinking about that, we know how to do that, but my last information is that we need to ask Cvet for some help with processing handle. I think posterization should stay on model, but pixelization should be on top of 3d layer on view projection.

[Luther Blissett]

Look like another good opportunity to play a Where's Wally style "spot the 3D model".



You'll be able to spot it, but it certainly blends in quite nicely. It may work even better for someone with a newer graphics card with antialiasing etc. Looks nice here too :



Combat Leather jacket has certainly never looked so "sprite-like" to me so far. He's not perfect, but he doesn't stick out horribly. To my eyes, he looks like he belongs there.

Note that I also got the program crash upon exiting, and it seemed to slow things down a little (again, the slow graphics card I think). Other than that, this is an exciting development - keep up the good work!

[barter1113]

OH FUCK! First screenshot without zoom is very nice Holy shit very good.

[Graf]

I should say, that I wasn't been able to find it out without of a zoom, which is very, very good result. Moreover, it even took me about 10-15 seconds of peruse looking, to find out the 3D model. Wow, it's all I can say.

[Lexx]

I saw it fast because the skin seems to be a bit overblended, imo. But the combat leather jacket dude is extremely good (though, it's sticking out a bit as well due to the fine details- the original critters aren't that detailed).

[TommyTheGun]

Well... It was pretty easy to spot the weakest link... Still - when it comes to me, its only because the colours are different... Meh... I mean - the difference beteen the fallout colours palette is obvious. Other than that - its awesome.

[LagMaster]

the first pic saw it first time when i was tired, didn't saw shit even with zoom, but now i know who is 3D, only cuz of the hair looking a bit diferent and clean black

[lisac2k]

The combat leather jacket looks fantastic, if you ask me. I would probably never be able to reach such a good model myself (well, at least not without many months of training and modeling). I can only clap my hands and ask for more, because I'm* a greedy human like everyone else.

*at least when it comes down to leather jackets in FOnline

[baaelSiljan]

  I'm very happy, this is trick, but

• textures need to be done with keeping in mind that it have to match 2D - like leather jacket or dust coat
• pallette cut should be done on every model, i've tried it but better works with posterisation, as long as we dont fix all textures
• i didn't noticed big difference in speed - there are only few simple calculations, but mipmaps are off - to look more ugly - it may make it (very) little slower as I know
• better than adding noise would be pixelisation, we speak with Atom about that, but end and beginning of year is hard for me to keep business working so i need to work much much more in my job

[TommyTheGun]

but end and beginning of year is hard for me to keep business working so i need to work much much more in my job

We all do, bro... We all do... Yet some of us are able to find some time to spare on the whole 2,5d project and others (like me) don't .  Keeping in mind, there are not so many people working on it right now, the progress is awesome if you ask me.

I dont know shit about shaders, effects and that sort of stuff - but does "pallette cut" mean effect which forces models (textures?) to use the original Fallout (in that particular case ofcourse) pallete only? If its something completely different, then is there a way to make such effect or does it need to be done at the texture stage?

Also - im terribly sorry for such a nooblike questions.

[baaelSiljan]

I dont know shit about shaders, effects and that sort of stuff - but does "pallette cut" mean effect which forces models (textures?) to use the original Fallout (in that particular case ofcourse) pallete only?

close..

like it is in original fallout:

 modeled -> textured -> rendered -> applied palette on rendered sprites (i dont remember no. of colours)

in FOnline is realtime 3d rendering, so we should lower colour number of all 3d models at once, or for every single one, but it should be done on top of rendering (postprocessing) same as pixelisation, and there is a problem with textures, some may look great, some may look odd, cause You loose details, and in order to get it good looking You need to do some tricks with contrasted areas etc.

[TommyTheGun]

I see... Then again - you can only start working on textures when you see them on the model with right effects applied, right? Or is there any way to easly stimulate such an effect for example in Photoshop or Blender? [I mean - for example in Photoshop - using some filter, whatsoever, to see how the model (taken for example from blender's redner) would look like with Fallout pallette put on. That way you can see what parts of texture need to be redone/tweaked.]

Not sure if making myself clear, or just writing hard to understand for anyone else nonsense... (Oh! You can put Fry's picture in here)

[baaelSiljan]

You just need to keep it in mind, result will be always best visible in game.

Exactly, this means that You need to do some things better visible, cause 2px line on 512^2 texture would not be visible on postprocessed element, so if You want it to be visible You must play with contrast and size etc. But wait with heavy processing of textures until it will work good, Dirty Shaders got variables to set values, cause right now any model and texture may work in different way with it, You just need to optimise those values for Your work.

[Luther Blissett]

I saw it fast because the skin seems to be a bit overblended, imo.

[...]i know who is 3D, only cuz of the hair looking a bit diferent and clean black

[...]its only because the colours are different... Meh... I mean - the difference beteen the fallout colours palette is obvious.[...]

It's good to try this little trick from time to time I think. I knew it wasn't perfect - but putting it up there in a "spot the 3D model" competition is a fun way to spot the little things that need adjusting

So, looking at this, we know that these things need looking at :
- Skin brightness, colour etc (combination of adjusting texture and adjusting effects & shaders)
- This hair model doesn't quite match the sprite, but it is perfectly fine as a hair model. So we make another one which is slightly different (adjust model and texture)
- The leather jacket brightness and colour (adjusting texture, effects, shaders)
- Overall colours are different (adjusting textures, effects, shaders)

On the subtlest level of the leather jacket texture, I would say it's a slightly blue-black, compared to the brown-black of the sprite next to her. Someone could fix this with a simple "hue shift" in photoshop i.e. "-2 towards the red spectrum".

For the skin, I would say it's slightly too pink and slightly too light, so this could perhaps be fixed by slightly lowering the brightness and slightly shifting the hue to a more brown/orange shade. I do think though that the female leather jacket is only a few small alterations away from being "almost perfect".

Some of the other models and textures are a lot further off. Now we've had such developments in shaders and lighting etc, it may be a good time to start looking over these older models again and tweaking them until they can be "Where's Wally" pictures too.

Little things like adjusting the shade of brown on the metal armour trousers could literally be done with minimal knowledge of photoshop and a 3D compatible SDK set up (adjust brightness and hue, save, reload, look at it, close it, repeat) - but it would take some time. The metal armour itself will be one of the most difficult, because of trying to get the shiny effect just right, but there's definitely some basic texture work which anyone could have a go at.

The combat leather jacket looks fantastic, if you ask me. I would probably never be able to reach such a good model myself (well, at least not without many months of training and modeling). I can only clap my hands and ask for more, because I'm* a greedy human like everyone else.

That's lovely to hear - it was the first armour model I did for Fonline. After registering about a year ago, I made a power fist, shotgun, then asked if it was okay if I tried to do an armour It really looks so much better now than when it was first tested, and I haven't changed a thing on it myself. Proof of the excellent work on the lighting and shading and effects I think.