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I believe in church

I go church regularly

Rarely go church

I use go church but not anymore

I been one few times in my life

never went to church

[Solar]

People who praise reason should do better than pasting some stupid demotivators that have nothing to do with reality. An image suggesting that there was nothing going on for 1000 years is simply false. Besides, most scholars in medieval period were clergymen, especially early on and actually they were the ones who saved a lot of Greek works. "Dark ages" is just a propaganda term, no serious historian use it anymore (at least not in such negative context).

There was many cleric–scientists who contributed greatly to the science. A name like Copernicus, does it ring a bell? I will leave you with a homework - find the other. Being atheist doesn't mean you are automatically smart. And it doesn't mean that you can't be fanatical when arguing with others.

I'm agnostic and I don't give a damn what you believe or disbelieve in

Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime, when a large majority of philosophers and astronomers still subscribed to the geocentric view that the Earth is at the centre of the universe. After 1610, when he began publicly supporting the heliocentric view, which placed the Sun at the centre of the universe, he met with bitter opposition from some philosophers and clerics, and two of the latter eventually denounced him to the Roman Inquisition early in 1615. In February 1616, although he had been cleared of any offence, the Catholic Church nevertheless condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture",[10] and Galileo was warned to abandon his support for it—which he promised to do. When he later defended his views in his most famous work, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, published in 1632, he was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest

It's not quite so simple as the picture, but any system which promotes "belief" over evidence has a negative effect on human progress. Just as stem cell research suffered when they had an idiot in the whitehouse.

[JovankaB]

I don't think Joseph Stalin contributed to the mankind greatly either. It is not a problem with beliefs in god. It's a problem with a system based on monopoly of violence (government), where people in power can tell you what you can or cannot do, or you will be shot or thrown into a jail. For example, if you think stem cell research is unethical, you shouldn't be forced to pay for the research (which many christians may be, via taxes).

It would be weird if there would be no examples of evil people in almost 2000 years old, powerful organization.

[Solar]

A good example to pick. Totalitarianism and religion have many things in common. Outside of religion treating something made up as fact and totalitarianism treating an opinion as fact ... theres not much difference.

Science's great ability is that it accepts the possibility even the most fundamental part of it could be completely wrong and changes based upon something being proven to be better. That's how progress is made.

Already having the "answer" is the way to halt progress.

[JustGreat]

There was many cleric–scientists who contributed greatly to the science.

This is true, but I don't understand why you brought Copernicus into this since according to the poster Crazy showed, the black was before Copernicus was born.

So, I prefer the science way.
(Science vs. Faith picture)

I can tell you are not doing any scientific work and your knowledge about science is superfluous. What you posted was an ideal was of how science should work, but it rarely does. (e.g using hydrodynamic equations to explain quark gluon plasma, though it is not truly a plasma, but it is easier to model this way)

but any system which promotes "belief" over evidence has a negative effect on human progress.

While this is true for organized religions, who use belief to counter progress, it is hardly true in academia, where belief is sometimes just as strong as evidence. (eg. absolute relativity by Lorentz, and general relativity by Einstein)

It is not a problem with beliefs in god. It's a problem with a system based on monopoly of violence (government), where people in power can tell you what you can or cannot do, or you will be shot or thrown into a jail. For example, if you think stem cell research is unethical, you shouldn't be forced to pay for the research (which many christians may be, via taxes).

I don't know how it is in Europe (though I know it is less religious than the US) but in the US churches are tax exempt, and there are even people who create religions just so they don't have to pay taxes. Taxes are a tricky subject, but I don't think using belief should be a way to piggyback out of it.

Science's great ability is that it accepts the possibility even the most fundamental part of it could be completely wrong and changes based upon something being proven to be better. That's how progress is made.

You will be surprised how untrue this is. (There is a reason PRL has a section D)


Anyway, what I am trying to say is, don't think science is the opposite of religion, both have their beliefs. 

[Floodnik]

any system which promotes "belief" over evidence has a negative effect on human progress.

Indeed, I fully agree. But as I said, we don't promote belief over evidence anymore.

Let's talk a little about faith itself, not about church and its effects.
You see, there is no evidence that God exists(for you), but there is also no evidence that God doesn't exist. That's why believing in Him is nothing wrong, and has no negative effect

About believing. Let's take someone who's raised in Catholicism.
First, he's a child. His parents told him that God exists, loves him but can also punish. "You must go to church!" they said. The kid starts to believe in God. Blindly. His faith is there just because his authorities, his parents told him.
Then, he grows up. He begins to understand. He must take a path.
 - God doesn't exist.
1. Now he could think that who believes in God is dumb, mad etc. He is an enemy to any system of belief. God was nothing more than a tooth fairy. He was there just to help parents grow up the kid, to scare him when he doesn't obey/cheer him up when something bad happens.
2. Or he could think, that everyone should believe what he wants to believe. One isn't negative towards people who have faith.
I. myself, have much respect for those who took the second option.
Let's move on.

 - "God exists"
But just because it's right to say so.
For me, these are the kind of people whose faith didn't grow up. The man could be still going to church, he could get a church wedding. He would "believe". But the truth is, he doesn't care about God and his faith.

 - God does exist.
Now I'm thinking of people who really deeply believe, and God is present in their lives. I know, noone is perfect, they still commit sins - and sins lengthen the distance between God and man. But they want to live in harmony with Him.

I believe that I belong to the third group.
You see, with age, my faith was getting deeper and it still is. I started experiencing God. Now it isn't just a blind faith, now I know that He is there, all around us. I can feel it.
What I am saying is very personal. But well, that is what I believe in  

I'm just hoping that you will start seeking Him. Not that you become a Christian instantly. Maybe go to church. Just try to look around. It's never too late.

And about Church - as the organization. It's created to help people in their relationship with God. There's been things that Church did wrong. Like blindly killing people, just because they thought another way. Using its power to raise money. But it is now changing. People like John Paul II - they are just proving that. Church is fine for me  

[cogliostro]

I would dare to say noone need such kind of organization as the church, hiding information to people, way to manage the situation to their will. Then they are liars, "sinners" as their call. I have not to mention the atrocities commanded by these people, using their "god" as thy reason. If you believe in what church has made you to believe, then you support oppression, corruption... liberty of expression, and more. An example is the missing link of the human being, found many years ago, but has not came to spread that much, and a factor is the "church" intended to keep the flame on their believers. So yes, what a powerful organization, in do the bad thing.

[Floodnik]

I do not believe in Church. I believe in God, in Jesus. Church is not the God.
But the primary purpose of Church was to help us, folks, meet God. That's why it was created.
It became corrupted though. I agree with you. But not fully. There are many good people out there. People who don't want power, money - they want to help. They want to spread the Word.
I mentioned John Paul II. Do you believe he was corrupted, that he became a pope just to lie, hide information, keep flame on us, believers? I don't. He was a good man. A great man.

I hope Church goes in the right direction.

[solid snake]

God does exist. He's just an epic troll.
http://www.iheartchaos.com/post/2461450574/twenty-things-god-is-an-epic-troll

[Solar]

There is as much evidence for God as the Tooth Fairy, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Exactly 0.

On the other hand there is plenty of evidence that Christian belief grew up from a small jewish cult and through amazing coincidence ended up polluting the world.

If not for another made up deity who was popular in rome at the time they were trying to sell Jebus to them, we would have very different made up nonsense to learn in school. (There's actually loads more Mithra/Jesus similarities than there are here:

1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.

2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.

3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.

4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.

5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.

6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).



As you can now see, Christianity derived many of its essential elements from the ancient religion of Mithraism. Mithraism became intertwined with the cult of Jesus to form what is known today as “Christianity.” Although literary sources on this religion are sparse, an abundance of material evidence exists in the many Mithraic temples and artifacts that archaeologists have found scattered throughout the Roman Empire, from England in the north and west to Palestine in the south and east. The temples were usually built underground in caves, which are filled with an extremely elaborate iconography (illustrating by pictures, figures and images). There were many hundreds of Mithraic temples in the Roman Empire, the greatest concentrations have been found in the city of Rome itself.



There are tens of accounts of pagan gods of many different cultures who were said to have the same attributes as those that Christians claim Jesus had.


Trinity―Trinities were popular in pagan sects before Christianity was introduced to the world. Some of the more well known trinity gods included Mithra-Vohu Mana-Rashnu, Amen-Mut-Khonsu, and Osiris-Isis-Horus.

Virgin Birth―Among the pagan cultures that preceded Christianity, virgin birth stories abounded. The long list of pagan gods born of virgins includes: Romulus and Remus, Zoroaster, Buddha, Mithras, Chrishna, Osiris-Aion, Agdistis, Attis, Tammuz, Adonis, Korybas, Perseus, and Dionysus.

Disciples―In the following 'saviors' cases, a grouping of disciples was present, just as they were present in Jesus' story: Horus, Buddha, Chrishna, Dionysus, Mithra. Interestingly enough, in the case of Dionysus, his disciple Acoetes was a boatman, just as Jesus' disciple Peter. And just as Peter was freed from jail when the doors miraculously flew open, so was Dionysus' disciple Acoetes. In Budda's case, he, like Jesus, demanded that his disciples renounce all worldly possessions. Yet another instance of similarity is that the disciples of both Jesus and Buddha were said to have been arrested for preaching, as well as witnessed to have "walked on water."

Miracles―Among those 'saviors' who, like Jesus, performed countless miracles include: Horus, Chrishna, Buddha, Dionysus, Mithra, Osirus, and Adonis. Horus was said to have walked on water, just as Jesus did. In addition, Horus raised one man, El-Azarus, from the dead in front of countless witnesses. In the case of Buddha, it was told that he fed five hundred men with one loaf of bread, that he cured lepers, and that he caused the blind to see. Dionysus rescued a person from dying when the person was utterly desolate and placed them among the stars. And he gave food and drink, herbs and berries, to the starving people -- not to mention turning water into wine.

The Sun―Here is another common theory, quoted from S. Acharya's "The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus:" "The reason why all these pagan narratives are so similar to a "god-man" is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.

Or like your old testament? Note how an older Sumerian tale, Gilgamesh makes it into the bible with the much more boring Noah's ark skinned over the top.


Stories are quite fun. Repeating them as fact is not.

[SIGISMUND]

People pray to god and belive in him when they are in difficulty.After they got their problems solved they don't even know who  is god.I personally don't really belive.So I think I'm an "atheist" is that the term?

[Lizard]

Just throwing this in: To whom would you pray, if you're in forlorn situation? Is it better to not to believe in anything at all but (sometimes) humble self - or believe in something that gives you strength on your way of life?

Just my 2 cents.

[SIGISMUND]

God exist as much as Santa Clauss

[Jimmy BoyX]

I go to church when I want and need to go there. I believe in God but sometimes I thinking about him. We don't know what is after dead - maybe nothing but maybe there is something special...

[kiki123]

God exist as much as Santa Clauss

SANTA CLAUS IS REAALLLL!!!!!!! 

[Hololasima]

I go to church when I want and need to go there. I believe in God but sometimes I thinking about him. We don't know what is after dead - maybe nothing but maybe there is something special...

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