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[chaosgoblyn]

New player here. I figure I'd start out by saying the idea behind this game is awesome. I had to come here with my first major complaint though. People are trying to steal from me and I attack them only to get mowed down by the guards? That's dumb as hell.

[cannotspace]

New player here. I figure I'd start out by saying the idea behind this game is awesome. I had to come here with my first major complaint though. People are trying to steal from me and I attack them only to get mowed down by the guards? That's dumb as hell.

If they successfully steal something they're protected, so stay alert in towns

[Xurix]

Stealing is a crime basically the guards didn't see them steal.

If on your chat it appears in red "SOMEONE IS STEALING FROM YOU" Or tried to steal or whatever. Then you can attack them.

[Opera]

If a thief successfully steals something from you, he/she is still protected by guards, because your character or guards didn't notice this. You can attack the thief if he/she fails at stealing.

You can notice an failed steal attempt by these things:
- A guard says something similar to this: "chaosgoblyn, seems like Opera is interested in your stuff". I guess in this case the thief got your item(s), but he/she becomes unprotected.
- A message appears in your "infobox": "Someone tried to steal from you".

If you won't see these and thief got your item(s). It is just bad luck for you. But think positive, the thief became happy.

Thief becomes protected again after he/she dies (or stays alive for 24h?).

[avv]

In my opinion a victim of thievery should be allowed to shoot a thief even if the guards didn't notice it.

If a thief successfully steals something from you, he/she is still protected by guards, because your character or guards didn't notice this.

And that's what makes people mad about it.

[Opera]

In my opinion a victim of thievery should be allowed to shoot a thief even if the guards didn't notice it.

And that's what makes people mad about it.

Well, you can shoot a thief even if guards didn't notice it, but your character needs to notice this. IMO it is working just fine now. Problem is most likely that stealing animation is same as using any other skill or that you are never safe from thieves. Like trading with NPCs is almost impossible in guarded towns like NCR, because the thief can just spam you with science skill and randomly with steal skill. Stealing should be impossible while the target is trading or stealing animation should be different.

Animation could be changed after getting 3D models for characters. However, this would make it very very difficult for thieves to steal anything since everyone can see that you are stealing from someone. One possible way to balance this could be that the animation depends on player's perception and which way he/she is looking at.

For example:
X uses steal on Y. Y sees the steal animation.
Z is far away/looking other direction/has low PE. Z won't see the steal animation. Z won't see any animation or the normal "use" animation.

[vilaz]

Honestly from my experience.

I have played some time as a thief and it was hard.

I played some time against thiefs and I think it is not big problem. Few simple rules:
1. Never let anyone stand next to You.
2. If someone is giving You FA just move a step just after animation.
3. Take Your trading window a little bit up to see Your character.
4. If someone is spamming You with steal just move a little away. Wait for someone else who want to trade and then just wait until thief is "fed".

[avv]

Well, you can shoot a thief even if guards didn't notice it, but your character needs to notice this. IMO it is working just fine now. Problem is most likely that stealing animation is same as using any other skill or that you are never safe from thieves. Like trading with NPCs is almost impossible in guarded towns like NCR, because the thief can just spam you with science skill and randomly with steal skill. Stealing should be impossible while the target is trading or stealing animation should be different.

What's even more troubblesome is that thieves are nothing but powerbuilt alts. They are similar to bombers and taxis, unbearably weak to play as solo and able to perform only one task.

The animation isn't problem, because even if it was differend you could still harass people by just standing next to them. There has to be a sure way to catch a thief and repel him. People are right now using loopholes to fight back thieves due to the frustration caused by them being protected. I used to suicide burst/plasmanade thieves while living in san fran and those can be regarded as 3rd party methods to get rid of players in safe towns. And now I'm intentionally holding items in my inv, allowing them being stolen from me and then shoot thieves when they are caught, but they always return and then they're protected and are free to continue.

[OskaRus]

I think that consequences of loosing protection should be just harsher. I mean loss of protection would last at least 24 hours or result in carma loss abou 1000 for stealer alt become unprotected for really long time without easy way of becoming protected next minute. Stealer and burster teams spam is just depopulating protected cities.

[Reginmund]

jailed for your crime, forced to work your way out to freedom in specialised maps for each unguarded town.

work may include:
1. basic movement of boxes - watch out low str and small frame    
2. crafting equipment - should be tedious like having to gather or request the required resources (need to refine it if involving  from separate npcs all over the map or in high quantities additionally minus the exp gained but keeping your timeout.
3. Gathering resources - either in large quantities minus the timeout or in a moderate amount with the gathering timeout.

you may be randomly thrown in to do 1 or 3 but for 2 you may just need to convince your way through.

[Caviano]

jailed for your crime, forced to work your way out to freedom in specialised maps for each unguarded town.

work may include:
1. basic movement of boxes - watch out low str and small frame    
2. crafting equipment - should be tedious like having to gather or request the required resources (need to refine it if involving  from separate npcs all over the map or in high quantities additionally minus the exp gained but keeping your timeout.
3. Gathering resources - either in large quantities minus the timeout or in a moderate amount with the gathering timeout.

you may be randomly thrown in to do 1 or 3 but for 2 you may just need to convince your way through.

I LOVE THIS IDEA ENTIRELY, I THINK IT DESERVES A THREAD.

[Reginmund]

I LOVE THIS IDEA ENTIRELY, I THINK IT DESERVES A THREAD.

Maybe, but it is not fully thought through. Firstly how or under what conditions would jailing occur, will there be trial (appeal/petitioning) and how would the jailing process be implemented. It would be very easy to nab a new player who decided to test out steal to fail (and get nothing/very little) only to find out he's stuck doing chores for the town and starts saying WTF IS THIS S**T!! F*** THIS GAME!!! etc.

I feel what i suggested is only part of something a little bigger but feel free to make additions to it. But yes it is too easy with enough skill to just come back after dying and continue to harass other players for their stuff (probably not for any real gain but for the lulz).

[Michaelh139]

the trial thing could make the speech skill useful....  forcing a truely, silvertongued thief.

[LagMaster]

in my opinion, guarded towns only protect theifs, better move to an unguarded town

i shoud try Den, you can make a life there as a slaver, and later be recruited by one of the gangs

or try Redding, i heard that there are some players that try to guard it better than NCR brainless guards

[avv]

jailed for your crime, forced to work your way out to freedom in specialised maps for each unguarded town.

work may include:
1. basic movement of boxes - watch out low str and small frame    
2. crafting equipment - should be tedious like having to gather or request the required resources (need to refine it if involving  from separate npcs all over the map or in high quantities additionally minus the exp gained but keeping your timeout.
3. Gathering resources - either in large quantities minus the timeout or in a moderate amount with the gathering timeout.

you may be randomly thrown in to do 1 or 3 but for 2 you may just need to convince your way through.

How does this repay to the victim what the thief has done?

the trial thing could make the speech skill useful....  forcing a truely, silvertongued thief.

And more minmaxing.