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Author Topic: Stealing not a crime?  (Read 5713 times)

Re: Stealing not a crime?
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2011, 03:40:27 pm »

Then why is the player's point of view implemented in sneak? Player can't see sneaker if the char can't see him. But player can tell who stole from him even though the character can't.

Can't the principle of sneak be used on steal aswell? Players are able to spot and catch thieves the same way they can search for sneakers. But thief can also try to perform actions that help him not to get caught.

If players can't use their own awerness to affect ingame situations like stealing, it will just cause annoyance among players and lead to suicide-killing of thieves and third party methods that look even sillier than thieving.

I'm not sure I'm quite following you here.

Perhaps sneak needs to be changed? I never played a sneak alt, so I can't really comment on it.

It's pretty much impossible for a thief to perform an action that helps him not to be caught. He can stand behind his victim, but as long as you're talking from the player's point of view it can be noticed. Theft should be prevented by the potential victim instead of letting it happen to avenge it afterwards.

The only thing that affects the chance of thieves to be caught right now are their perks, the direction their victim is looking at and their victim's PE.
Awareness perk should give a higher chance to catch a thief.

This is pretty necessary at least now since death means nothing to thieves and they just spam their presence in towns. The names of unprotected could be listed somewhere in town to help fending off wrongdoers.

People who come into town after someone lost protection shouldn't know about it. Perhaps with the exception of the unprotected person not being killed yet after he got unprotected.

They don't have to be shot on sight by the guards, they'd be just unprotected. It could be up to players to defend their home.

By shooting unprotected players when they enter town, guards protect their homes. It would make sense, similar to shooting players in encounters when their rep is below -300 with that faction or shooting players in towns when their rep is below -1500.
It also gets rid of the entire problem of people being harassed by the same unprotected thief over and over.

Perhaps the server could "remember" what were stolen from who. When the thief was shot and looted, the victim needs to walk to the sheriff and name the lost items to get them back. It could work like lost and found.

If a thief manage to get a nice bunch of stuff from various victims before getting shot, "remembering" those could seriously clog the database.
If such a feature would be implemented, it should be limited to something like 24 real-time hours or less.
The victim shouldn't be able to choose or list anything. He pays a fee to get everything back or he doesn't get anything back at all. All he needs to do is ask the sheriff if his items got pounded and how much it will cost to get them back.
Also the victim might be able to pay the sheriff not only in caps, but also in:
- certain 0% deterioration none repaired tier 2 or 3 weapons,
- ammo
- HQ ore/minerals/GMP/HQ alloys/advanced gunpowder
- superstims
The value would be calculated as the normal nominal value, for instance 310 caps for a superstim or 9 caps per shotgun shell. The weapons and ammo should be limited to what NCR guards, army, rangers and caravans use.
Items paid to or pounded but unclaimed at the sheriff should NOT be put into traders. Perhaps the pounded and paid stuff could result in some small changes in the weapons and armors of NCR guards, rangers, army and caravans over time. For instance NCR Rangers giving Remnants a harder time or simply more NCR related encounters.
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Re: Stealing not a crime?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2011, 04:15:05 pm »

It's pretty much impossible for a thief to perform an action that helps him not to be caught.

That's because how things are now. The point is to invent new ones.

Quote
He can stand behind his victim, but as long as you're talking from the player's point of view it can be noticed.

You can blame our rather all-seeing FOV for that. I'd say if the fov didn't see behind us, stealing could be more more interesting aswell as rest of the gameplay.

Having differend FOV and thieves being able to change their names temporarily (not existing names) would solve alot.

Quote
Theft should be prevented by the potential victim instead of letting it happen to avenge it afterwards.

To prevent letting it happen and avenging it afterwards steal needs to work like sneak. If it happened, the victim shouldn't be able to tell who it was.

Quote
The only thing that affects the chance of thieves to be caught right now are their perks, the direction their victim is looking at and their victim's PE.
Awareness perk should give a higher chance to catch a thief.

If it is the perks, it just encourages minmaxing and alts. Every player should have the right to catch thieves or pretect themselves against their attempt by default, but only if they pay attention.

Quote
By shooting unprotected players when they enter town, guards protect their homes. It would make sense, similar to shooting players in encounters when their rep is below -300 with that faction or shooting players in towns when their rep is below -1500.
It also gets rid of the entire problem of people being harassed by the same unprotected thief over and over.

But players can't take care of the thieves too if they know it's safe to shoot. In addition while being unprotected, the thief could still try to attempt to do his job if nobody recognized him as the unprotected thief.

Quote
The victim shouldn't be able to choose or list anything. He pays a fee to get everything back or he doesn't get anything back at all. All he needs to do is ask the sheriff if his items got pounded and how much it will cost to get them back.
Also the victim might be able to pay the sheriff not only in caps, but also in:
- certain 0% deterioration none repaired tier 2 or 3 weapons,
- ammo
- HQ ore/minerals/GMP/HQ alloys/advanced gunpowder
- superstims

But what's the point of all this? What for the victim has to do all this work to get the stolen stuff back? So that patrols get variety in equipment, somehow it's totally unrelated to thievery and getting items back.
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Re: Stealing not a crime?
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2011, 05:22:24 pm »

You can blame our rather all-seeing FOV for that. I'd say if the fov didn't see behind us, stealing could be more more interesting aswell as rest of the gameplay.

This would seriously hurt anyone who's not playing in a group as it would encourage traps. Have a small group occupy certain places on a map. At the moment you can see them if your PE is high enough and you're close enough. In the new situation you would only see those in your line of sight.

Having differend FOV and thieves being able to change their names temporarily (not existing names) would solve alot.

Not sure how FOV is right now, but it should be like in Commandos; a triangle originating from the character.
Changing names temporarily could be nice, but it needs some limitations like unable to use existing names, real name revealed when failed stealing and canceled when leaving the town or the map.

To prevent letting it happen and avenging it afterwards steal needs to work like sneak. If it happened, the victim shouldn't be able to tell who it was.

Sneaks breaks within 3 hexes. Even if you don't see behind you, you should be able so sense/notice someone is there. In FOnline that means you move away.

If it is the perks, it just encourages minmaxing and alts. Every player should have the right to catch thieves or pretect themselves against their attempt by default, but only if they pay attention.

You already have the right to catch a thief, but only when they fail. The best prevention is still to walk away.

But players can't take care of the thieves too if they know it's safe to shoot. In addition while being unprotected, the thief could still try to attempt to do his job if nobody recognized him as the unprotected thief.

The thief was caught with his pants down. Guards should shoot him on sight. The thief knows he's unprotected and therefore should wisely move to another town.

But what's the point of all this? What for the victim has to do all this work to get the stolen stuff back? So that patrols get variety in equipment, somehow it's totally unrelated to thievery and getting items back.

The victim lost his stuff, probably due to not being careful enough or not paying attention. The guards looted it from the thief.
If there is a chance for the victims to get their stuff back, they should take the initiative by going to the sheriff.
The sheriff will demand a fee before returning the items.
I'm just saying that that fee could be paid in certain items, depending on the npc faction's needs. In this case I took NCR as an example.
If a lot of people need to pay fees to get their stuff back, it might have some small consequences in the FOnline universe. Nothing that changes the storyline or anything like that, but just something that could alter encounters a bit.
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