fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => News and Announcements => Topic started by: Ghosthack on September 08, 2010, 07:21:55 pm
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FIXES:
- Follower won't attack faction friend's followers (hopefully fixed this time).
- Followers will reload powerfists and other unarmed weapons.
- ~disbandparty only worked with away_team argument, fixed now.
- Minor arena fixes.
- Updated server/client versions. Especially server should be more stable.
FEATURES:
- Follower will visually reload weapon.
CHANGES (WIP):
- Brahmins in bases will die permanently when killed.
- Car repair cost is now 10% of deterioration amount.
- Cigarettes available from Neal in Junktown.
EXTRA NOTES:
- Run the updater and receive the new client version.
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CHANGES (WIP):
- Brahmins in bases will die permanently when killed.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
Why dont just make cow respawn timer longer?
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And again:
Brahmins in bases will die permanently when killed
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Brahmin in bases aren't there to just support you with free brahmin hides. ::)
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So for what? Let you clean one shit for 10 minutes?
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Brahmin in bases aren't there to just support you with free brahmin hides. ::)
why not? it always been like support for gangs and everybody liked it, this brahmin do not spawn 9999 hides per second
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Was fixed the problem with joining the Enclave with this update?
If not, is there another way to make Energy Expert 3?
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So for what? Let you clean one shit for 10 minutes?
For example. Not every ingame feature is there to provide you with stuff for free.
Players always want stuff without doing something. ::)
why not? it always been like support for gangs and everybody liked it, this brahmin do not spawn 9999 hides per second
You can hunt brahmin out in the wastes if you need hides.
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Thanks for changelog, it's good to see some! :)
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Better unnerf miniguns, they are so bad now
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Brahmin in bases aren't there to just support you with free brahmin hides. ::)
Funny, I was conviced brahmins were ressources, like wood, fruit, fibres, meat, or normal minerals in other bases, and they were included in the prices...
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They're not.
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They're not.
How can you be so sure of yourself? ;p
Even if since this update, no, they're not anymore. But they was.
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For example. Not every ingame feature is there to provide you with stuff for free.
Players always want stuff without doing something. ::)
You can hunt brahmin out in the wastes if you need hides.
Its not really free... we have to pay 130k caps for outpost
hmmm i should go try kill the bramins in town see if they spawn or not
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Removing 80exp from Brahmins in bases :D
Solar really likes to torture people :D
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Hmmph....and The Game has Stop working after Update....
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Thanks for the update. I can't wait to see if my slaves can reload.
Why is brahmin death permanent in bases?
In the outpost we have a fruit farm, a fiber farm, and a brahmin farm. Why suddenly is the brahmin farm being removed?
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maybe becase brahmins shouldn't magicaly revive after being killed
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Making brahmins dying permanently because they support player with hides? Guess what, people normally breed animals for stuff like meat and skin, but oh wait, not in this game. Because it would break the economy!!!!11 oh noes!!11 those hides break the game nooooo
Yeah, now let's keep brahmins in pens so they can support us with their shit, awesome.
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Good work RT
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maybe becase brahmins shouldn't magicaly revive after being killed
Fruit plants do.
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maybe becase brahmins shouldn't magicaly revive after being killed
Then dont revive player that have been kill and also other NPC... Game Over
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if you dont like it, start your own server. the sdk's been released and you have no reason to complain at this point. if you make a better version im sure people will migrate.
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if you dont like it, start your own server. the sdk's been released and you have no reason to complain at this point. if you make a better version im sure people will migrate.
I don't have to be a director to say my opinion about some film. But probably in America you would sue me anyway.
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I don't have to be a director to say my opinion about some film. But probably in America you would sue me anyway.
There is a difference between voicing ones opinion and smartass complaining/whining.
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Considering the 30K base only has one brahmin, while the 130K base has five brahmin, it looks like that the developers originally did make cows part of the price, and this absence should be accounted for. I'm not saying that making them die permanently is a bad thing, but the costs need revising now that the number of brahmins per base barely makes a difference.
(or we could make it go back to the old way where brahmins in bases just didn't give hides)
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I don't have to be a director to say my opinion about some film. But probably in America you would sue me anyway.
Lemme tell you something about America, instead of complaining and whining about something we can change we change it when we have the power to do so.
They have given you this power and you insist that youd much rather be a critic, well I think its safe to say that some of the first film critics were probably eurpoean, and as for me wanting to sue somebody? no thanks, fuck the government and all its trappings, id as soon punch you in the mouth as give you a subpeona, but who am i kidding, you can probably only understand a quater of what im actually saying to you.
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USA USA USA
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Lemme tell you something about America, instead of complaining and whining about something we can change we change it when we have the power to do so.
They have given you this power and you insist that youd much rather be a critic, well I think its safe to say that some of the first film critics were probably eurpoean, and as for me wanting to sue somebody? no thanks, fuck the government and all its trappings, id as soon punch you in the mouth as give you a subpeona, but who am i kidding, you can probably only understand a quater of what im actually saying to you.
YES WE CAN.
Whining/complaining (as you call it, whatever) is a feedback too. If you make shitty changes, expect it.
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Lemme tell you something about America, instead of complaining and whining about something we can change we change it when we have the power to do so.
They have given you this power and you insist that youd much rather be a critic, well I think its safe to say that some of the first film critics were probably eurpoean, and as for me wanting to sue somebody? no thanks, fuck the government and all its trappings, id as soon punch you in the mouth as give you a subpeona, but who am i kidding, you can probably only understand a quater of what im actually saying to you.
Now I say I hate american movies from the bottom of my feet. But the game rules are set by Solar, play or don't its your choice. At least he doesn't put any references from shitty american movies, does he?
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Now, gass station is better than outpost, there are only 1 difference, gass station dont have brahmins...but now brahmins doesnt worth nothing... is stupid buy Outpost if you dont have cows
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Run the updater to receive new exe.
If you get any dump from crash, send it to support@fonline.ru and to contact@fonline2238.net
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Atom, client still don't want run game. I just see first loading screen and watch, and before one or two minutes game crash to windows.
I reinstal game, delete casche files, change FOnline.exe, try run FOnline on another disc, restart system and I have that same problem. I cant, run the game. I have windows vista, but after yesterday update game was start normal.
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Good update list. I hope that everything working and server is little more stable than before.
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The notes look ok, but I find the brahmin change very unfortunate, as I found it a very practical feature in bases to have. I never thought of it as a problematic future to have.
Further more, this will cause some serious price- imbalances between bases (as mentioned in earlier posts), seeing as Outpost is now the most overpriced base at the moment, due to this change.
I wonder sometimes if the devs take into account of all the consequences on changes like this.
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The notes look ok, but I find the brahmin change very unfortunate, as I found it a very practical feature in bases to have. I never thought of it as a problematic future to have.
Further more, this will cause some serious price- imbalances between bases (as mentioned in earlier posts), seeing as Outpost is not the most overpriced base at the moment, due to this change.
I wonder sometimes if the devs take into account of all the consequences on changes like this.
Yes, and Well, think, weren't most brahmin hides being collected from a Base, and sold to merchants???? image that the Price of that will Rise by maby triple.....
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Its funny which ridiculous bugs you get attached to.
"Why does this plant regrow and the brahmin not?" ... its a plant :) Heh.
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So next time we die in the game we should expect to have to make a new character?
Cause as far as I know humans that die dont respawn in a convinient location close to their place of death.
Nor is there a huge cloning facility near every town in the wastes that mass produces our characters... if there is, can I have a group of me's following me?
On the other hand one can argue that plants do indeed regrow WITH TIME, with adequate watering, cultivating etch.
Similarly though livestock... with TIME produce more livestock!
I know it may sound like magic to you "city-boys" but if you put a mama cow and a papa cow in a pen for some time, then a baby-cow shows up after a while. Its just how nature works.
Comments like the above post remind me of the poem...
"Peaches come from a can
They were put there by a Man"
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Its funny which ridiculous bugs you get attached to.
It was a bug? I just thought it was logical to have brahmin respawn back to the base. Not like you'd wanna throw 130k down the drain for a single cattle.
"Why does this plant regrow and the brahmin not?" ... its a plant :) Heh.
I'm sorry but this logic seems pretty flimsy. Plants dont grow by themselves, they require maintaining and nurture to grow. Same can be applied to animal livestock (such as brahmin)
Seeing as neither need any maintaining whatsoever, I don't see the logic of discluding the brahmin the ability to respawn.
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Its funny which ridiculous bugs you get attached to.
"Why does this plant regrow and the brahmin not?" ... its a plant :) Heh.
Plants and cows both reproduce, neither do it on a farm without help from a farmer and without time. I just don't understand why the brahmin was taken out, and why it is suddenly a bug. It is just as in place as the other features of the outpost. Most cities both have massive fruit/fiber farms and several brahmin pens, so does the outpost on a small scale.
Why is the brahmin suddenly a bug?
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its mammal not bug
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its mammal not bug
That made my day. ;D
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From Lexx's post (link (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2819.msg29483#msg29483))
Check out the Brahmins you get with the base. These have influence on the prices as well.
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From Lexx's post (link (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2819.msg29483#msg29483))
this wont help a bit.
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Killed 2 Bramin in ncr... then after awhile comeback...and their alive!
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3882/huhof.jpg)
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in bases they do not respawn
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Yeah, and that's the fucking problem. Kind of unfair, huh?
It's favoritizm for cities by developers! Players and NPCs don't get equal support :(
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I get annoing wipe ago, because brahmins open doors and attack to faction members without reason. So this new system is better.
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>Permadead brahmins
Suffer! Suffer! ;D ;D ;D
2238 will FORCE you to use the SDK!
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I get annoing wipe ago, because brahmins open doors and attack to faction members without reason.
IT BEGINS
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Plants dont grow by themselves, they require maintaining and nurture to grow.
You made me smile.
Yeah, just look at the Mojave Desert (in real life ;)), omg someone has to maintain plants to grow?
That someone is called The Rain and The Soil.
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Way to go, devs! NERF EVERYTHING! ;D ;D ;D
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Way to go, devs! NERF EVERYTHING! ;D ;D ;D
And you are first target ;)
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And you are first target ;)
Oh yeah and why am i still posting? ;D ;D ;D
Now you gotta explain me why they should target me, a player encouraging and suggesting to the developer team to NERF EVERYTHING? It's exactly the way it goes now, so why shouldn't it go FASTER?
Perhaps they target everyone else in this game, including YOU, did you even thought of that, perhaps while you were complaining about misshapen features?
No, you didn't. And guess why, Runboy?
(Fuck yes, 700th post!)
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:'(
It was never the intention to have a respawning source of hides in bases. Its now been fixed.
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:P
Then i can't understand why you have introduced permadeath for cows if you can't replace them with another wild crap generator in first place.
Tamed brahmins don't generate XP sources.
Also, i don't care about nerfs anymore. No sarcasm.
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You were always meant to go out, find brahmin and then either tame them or get their hides for use in things. It was never intended that you buy a base an have an infinite source of them popping up on your doorstep
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You were always meant to go out, find brahmin and then either tame them or get their hides for use in things. It was never intended that you buy a base an have an infinite source of them popping up on your doorstep
Then make each outpost contain X brahmins which won't consume CH points?
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Right, I agree they shouldn't give hides while respawning. However, it was only in an update a couple months ago that they started giving out the hides.
Besides this, I have no problem in making them perma-dead too, so that people will have to venture out somewhere to find the brahmin, but the prices for bases need to be adjusted if it is going to stay this way. The 30K base has one brahmin, while the 130K base has five brahmin.
As someone stated in a previous post, even Lexx says that the brahmin do account for the price of the base.
Since March's wipe, brahmin don't even move around in their pens anymore. This makes their brahmin shit production very small.
Since the update a couple months ago, brahmins now give hides.
Since this current update, they now don't respawn.
This means that the only things brahmins now account for are 80 XP and one hide. This is barely anything, and either the price for bases, the number of brahmin per base, or the mechanics need to be changed due to this.
Some things are just there for the atmosphere and don't give free stuff away. Is that so hard to see?
They weren't originally put in due to the "atmosphere", and once again, I don't have a problem with brahmins been worthless now, it is just the base prices that need to now be adjusted.
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Some things are just there for the atmosphere and don't give free stuff away. Is that so hard to see?
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Can I get a giant Frank Horrigan in front of my base? Just for the atmosphere, you know.
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For example. Not every ingame feature is there to provide you with stuff for free.
Players always want stuff without doing something. ::)
You can hunt brahmin out in the wastes if you need hides.
such a typical response. what in the waste is free thats worth while?hmm?
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you have a goddamn still there in caves and a workbench, don't be so greedy.
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It's true that brahmine hides was considerated as a base ressource and its was a very good idea.... Actualy brahmine base are totaly useless ....
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Whats this nonsense about a bug? I remember brahmins always dropping hides for a while until it was removed long ago.It always seemed kinda fair to have them in your outpost for the 130K price tag.It was something to work towards because you knew your crafters life would be a bit easier once you had enough caps. For me it was a kind of achievement to finally have some recources to work with. Farming hides in the waste always felt very tedious and boring.
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You know what's the worst in killing brahmins in the wastes? The time it takes to loot them. Looting takes so many APs that it takes more time than actual fight and you can be surprised by other wastelander very easily.
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you have a goddamn still there in caves and a workbench, don't be so greedy.
Yeah and that should be enough for players.
You can get hides from waste and other resources too.
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yea but there are caves in the wastes! And workbenches in many cities...
so from now on you shouldn't ask things for free! You should pay 130k caps and get a permanet location for a base and thats it! Dont be greedy! Dont expect everything for free!
I vote that from now on since we can find brahmin in the wasteland then there should also not be a workbench or a cave or anything else! And bunker base off course should NOT have a bunker... that would be too easy!
...
damn I forgot to turn off my sarcasm filter!
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Or maybe brahmin can make child :D
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Whats this nonsense about a bug? I remember brahmins always dropping hides for a while until it was removed long ago.It always seemed kinda fair to have them in your outpost for the 130K price tag.It was something to work towards because you knew your crafters life would be a bit easier once you had enough caps. For me it was a kind of achievement to finally have some recources to work with. Farming hides in the waste always felt very tedious and boring.
Thats right. Some people seems to forget that a game should be entertaining. And sadly some changes like with bramins in bases, worldmap traveling speed etc. makes game boring. Im not a kind of guy who is whining 24/7. But if i spend half/quarter of my playing time on youtube something must be wrong:) Im sure that im not alone with this alt-tabbing.
Yeah its so cool that you removed that bramins from bases. Players should'nt have everything for free! I can't wait for bramins hunts! These changes are so so so kewl. I lov'em (too much bullshit to paste all those posts)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4q6eaLn2mY
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meh, if I'm gonna go into the game again, I'm gonna hunt brahmin hunters, nothin better than that really, once they fix the mercs that is...
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I dont care about the brahmins, dont give a f#%ck about the traveling speed, dont mind that crafting takes too long.. And I'm quite satisfied with the gameplay.
All those things are implemented for a reason. I understand, that some people can get bored, while traveling on the world map but it seems to me that its their private issue. I enjoy playing Fonline because I have no issues with it, and I'm NOT playing WOW because I do have them- see the point? (if you dont like it= quit) I guess the brahmin thing is justified by realism maybe? Im kidna expecting to get flamed by sarcastic response like: 'being able to craft a rocket laucher from few minerals is not very realistic', so you can all skip flaming me cause I did it for you ;D I agree with Surf that its...an interresting addition to the overall atmosphere of the game. The bases are more simulative now. This is a beta, and a lot will change acordingly to the main idea of the developers, all we can do is see if the final picture will be to our liking :) (and we can whine about it along the process hoping the devs to change their minds about sth ;D ) but, yeah- the brahmin change is something I find reasonable
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bitter sarcasm from Alvarez
*sigh*
No seriously, at least the brahmins could be spawned once in a hour at the base, if you fear this advantage so much.
You also must remember that the killed brahmin was always taking revenge on his slaughterer, what was at least annoying, if not dangerous.
So, why not just prolonging the brahmin respawning time, instead of permadeathing them, dear devs? Seriously, how much disbalance did it brought to the game?
The bigger gangs didn't needed them anyway and roleplaying gangs gave them to the newbs, like Gray Stone and Muhosransk.
Was it that bad?
Edit: I guess nobody will ever react to this post, since it's written in reasonable fashion. One may go shitpost all over the forums to attract attention only to get junked, it seems.
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Today
With Avenger to BA for 30, 47, and for 69 as CRITICAL hit
With LSW to BA for 104, 86, and for 145 as CRITICAL hit
In combat, thewe were many hits to enemy which i didnt type ...
I have continue ? ...
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Today
With Avenger to BA for 30, 47, and for 69 as CRITICAL hit
With LSW to BA for 104, 86, and for 145 as CRITICAL hit
I have continue ? ...
Math shows this:
Average damage for LSW+x2BRD, not point blank shot, so 4 bullets.
((22+37)/2+4)*10/3(round up)=134.
BA armor +x1 toughness and .223 ammo:
134*(0.55+0.20)-10/3(round up)*10/3=87.
if x2 toughness, then:
134*(0.50+0.20)-10/3(round up)*12/3=78.
Avenger mini with the same perks and conditions.
((8+11)/2+4)*40/3(round up)=189.
189*(0.55+0.35)-40/3(round up)*10/3=123.
if x2 toughness, then:
189*(0.50+0.35)-40/3(round up)*12/3=105.
Probably you're critical build and don't have x2 BRD, then:
LSW with the same conditions as before except for lack of BRDs.
(22+37)/2*10/3(round up)=118.
x1 toughness: 118*(0.55+0.20)-10/3(round up)*10/3=75.
x2 toughness: 118*(0.50+0.20)-10/3(round up)*12/3=67.
Avenger mini.
(8+11)/2*40/3(round up)=133.
x1 toughness: 133*(0.55+0.35)-40/3(round up)*10/3=73.
x2 toughness: 133*(0.50+0.35)-40/3(round up)*12/3=57.
So, if you have no BRDs perks, avenger worse than LSW to BA.
It's 75 vs 73 damage, if target has 1 thoughness,
and 67 vs 57 damage, if target has 2 thoughness.
While with x2 BRD perks, it's:
87 vs 123 with 1 thoughness,
and 78 vs 105 with 2 thoughness.
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There is definitely something wrong on your math: since wipe, I have NEVER deal 100 damage on a BA with an avenger without crits (and I have BRD)
Also, an avenger which supposed to be highiest tier in this game, with highest cost for weapon and ammo, which deal less damage than LSW because no appropriate perk... Beuargh.
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I have 2x BRD and 25 critic chance.
Critical Hit for 69 damage to BA from Avenger and Critical Hit for 145 damage to BA from LSW
As Crazy, i never had damage arroud 100 with Avenger.
There is something wrong with your math. Also you have "tested" it on paper and i have tested it in combat.
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in this wipe avenger sux. We tested it with solar in our base 1 hour average with lsw in 10 hits was 88.9 dmg from avanger was 82 dmg
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I think you're misremembering that ;)
Avenger was averaging higher than the LSW, as it should, even in that test.
I've just finished testing them both vs Bob who had BA stats, set to not deteriorate. To quote the log:
BRDx2: ok, ill try 20 shots, discounting any crits
11:46:35 • Gorlak was hit for 40 hit points.
11:46:37 • Gorlak was hit for 84 hit points.
11:46:41 • Gorlak was hit for 67 hit points.
11:46:45 • Gorlak was hit for 58 hit points.
11:46:48 • Gorlak was hit for 94 hit points.
11:46:52 • Gorlak was hit for 96 hit points.
11:46:55 • Gorlak was hit for 93 hit points.
11:46:59 • Gorlak was hit for 88 hit points.
11:47:03 • Gorlak was hit for 76 hit points.
11:47:06 • Gorlak was hit for 98 hit points.
11:47:10 • Gorlak was hit for 61 hit points.
11:47:14 • Gorlak was hit for 85 hit points.
11:47:17 • Gorlak was hit for 96 hit points.
11:47:21 • Gorlak was hit for 64 hit points.
11:47:25 • Gorlak was hit for 54 hit points.
11:47:28 • Gorlak was hit for 94 hit points.
11:47:32 • Gorlak was hit for 74 hit points.
11:47:36 • Gorlak was hit for 92 hit points.
11:47:39 • Gorlak was hit for 93 hit points.
11:47:43 • Gorlak was hit for 94 hit points.
11:47:47 • BRDx2: ok, theres 20
11:47:50 • BRDx2: now LSW
11:47:55 • Gorlak: wait
11:47:55 • Gorlak was hit for 90 hit points.
11:47:59 • Gorlak was hit for 40 hit points.
11:48:01 • Gorlak was hit for 104 hit points.
11:48:05 • Gorlak: maniac
11:48:05 • Gorlak was hit for 85 hit points.
11:48:08 • Gorlak was hit for 73 hit points.
11:48:12 • Gorlak was hit for 60 hit points.
11:48:16 • Gorlak was hit for 72 hit points.
11:48:19 • Gorlak was hit for 80 hit points.
11:48:23 • Gorlak was hit for 72 hit points.
11:48:27 • Gorlak was hit for 78 hit points.
11:48:31 • Gorlak was hit for 93 hit points.
11:48:34 • Gorlak was hit for 84 hit points.
11:48:38 • Gorlak was hit for 80 hit points.
11:48:41 • Gorlak was hit for 89 hit points.
11:48:45 • Gorlak was hit for 82 hit points.
11:48:49 • Gorlak was hit for 92 hit points.
11:48:52 • Gorlak was hit for 23 hit points.
11:48:56 • Gorlak was hit for 93 hit points.
11:49:00 • Gorlak was hit for 25 hit points.
11:49:03 • Gorlak was hit for 75 hit points.
11:49:06 • BRDx2: ok, 20
To save you having to add them up - Avenger total of 20 shots 1601 (Average of 80) LSW total 1400 (Average of 70)
Meaning the avenger is doing an average of 15% more damage, even in this test. I would actually expect the avenger to pull even further ahead as the sample increased
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There is definitely something wrong on your math: since wipe, I have NEVER deal 100 damage on a BA with an avenger without crits (and I have BRD)
Also, an avenger which supposed to be highiest tier in this game, with highest cost for weapon and ammo, which deal less damage than LSW because no appropriate perk... Beuargh.
I have 2x BRD and 25 critic chance.
Critical Hit for 69 damage to BA from Avenger and Critical Hit for 145 damage to BA from LSW
As Crazy, i never had damage arroud 100 with Avenger.
There is something wrong with your math. Also you have "tested" it on paper and i have tested it in combat.
Well I don't know bullets from burst to hit %, so probably avenger deals less damage, because atleast 40th (14th in central hex) bullet will miss, if each bullet has penalty from 95%, not from your skill (for example you have 150% to hit, and every bullet will give penalty X% to 150%, so you'll have 95%, 95%, 95% etc for few fist bullets, then you need really high skill), if it gives penalty to 95%, then you need skill only to have 95% on the first bullet and then damage will be affected only by real life luck, because sometimes all 14 can hit, sometimes only half of them, sometimes only 1 or 2 bullets. While for LSW it's only 10 bullets, 10 much less than 40, so you have much more % that all bullets will hit, you need only 4 for central hex, so LSW requires less real life luck or... less BG skill, if each bullet gives penalty to it, not to 95%.
Probably you know better ToHit% for bursting weapon, and you know how much % removed from each next bullet in burst, then you can calculate it yourself.
All I can say with my math, that I think not all 14 bullets hits your target, try to test it in point blank, I think it's harder to miss all 40 bullets and all 10 bullets... may be, as I said I don't know from what to reduce % and how much.
For example every bullet gives -4% to hit from your skill or base ToHit% before setting it to 95%.
Then you need 4x40=160% skill only to have all bullets from avenger hit with 95%.
+95% for 95% for first bullet.
+4% per hex between you and target.
-8% for every PE higher than 2.
So with 7 PE, it's 5x8=40%.
For example at range of 10 it negates 7 PE bonus, because of 40-40=0.
so it's 160+95=255% BG skill to 0 AC target.
And if target has like 30 AC, it's 285% BG skill.
*Again it was an example, if each bullet reduces ToHit on 4%, it can be 2% or 5%, I don't know, also if it reduces from 95%, then you don't need to high skill, but you need your real life luck, so 2nd bullet will have 91%, 3rd 87%, etc. so you may hit only with first few bullets, again, depending on how much % each bullet reduces.
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Try calculating the DPS with 2*more crit instead of 2*BRD (crits counting)?
Also the only shot above 100 is from LSW.
And to finish, from my experience, when you deal low damage (+/- 40 for avenger, 20-40 for LSW) it's equal to a "miss" for big gun, These numbers shouldn't be counted, as you have only 5% chance to miss and is dependant of your real luck while making the test.
Conclusion: forget BRD and take crit perks + LSW.
PS; what i guess for burst: 1/6 of bullets try to hit your primary target (only one roll for this 1/6), 1/6 try to hit separately every target on the road. For avenger, it mean that there is 7 bullets which can hit or not separately dependant on you RL luck, while with LSW it's 2, so better chance to no miss any bullet.
Only guesses tough.
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• BRDx2: ok
12:45:17 • BRDx2: got 25% crit rate
12:45:21 • BRDx2: no better crits
12:45:25 • BRDx2: lsw vs ba
12:45:32 • BRDx2: 20 shots
12:45:39 • Gorlak was hit for 66 hit points.
12:45:41 • Gorlak was hit for 74 hit points.
12:45:45 • Gorlak was hit for 14 hit points.
12:45:49 • Gorlak was hit for 84 hit points.
12:45:52 • Gorlak was hit for 83 hit points.
12:45:56 • Gorlak was critically hit for 114 hit points.
12:46:00 • Gorlak was hit for 72 hit points.
12:46:03 • Gorlak was hit for 78 hit points.
12:46:07 • Gorlak was hit for 14 hit points.
12:46:10 • Gorlak was hit for 30 hit points.
12:46:14 • Gorlak was hit for 62 hit points.
12:46:17 • Gorlak was hit for 73 hit points.
12:46:21 • Gorlak was hit for 77 hit points.
12:46:25 • Gorlak was critically hit for 117 hit points.
12:46:32 • Gorlak was hit for 69 hit points.
12:46:34 • Gorlak was critically hit for 114 hit points.
12:46:38 • Gorlak was hit for 32 hit points.
12:46:41 • Gorlak was critically hit for 126 hit points.
12:46:54 • Gorlak was hit for 58 hit points.
12:46:56 • Gorlak was hit for 66 hit points.
Total of 1423, average 71.15. 4 extra points in luck, 3 perks used instead of 2 ... + 1.15 damage per shot. As I say, BRD is better. Also, I'll repeat it again, Avenger is the best burst weapon.
Other interesting ones:
Plasma Rifle 75% crits gave an average of 84.19
M60 was 62.25
Minigun was 50.45 (This seems a little low and had a high proportion of low results - bigger sample should see this increase)
Super Sledge 44
Super Prod 35
(Remember none of the above have been adjusted for different AP requirements, so they arent really fair 1:1 comparisons - aprt from where AP requirements are the same)
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Well, definitely need better crit, what are these multiplicator? oO only *1.5?
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Better crit will only marginally help a BG build and take up a 4th perk spot - where really only 2*BRD is needed. You're using the uncalled table, its not amazing (hense the small damage multipliers) ;)
Quite funny that everyone I see says LSW is better than Avenger. Now we have empirical evidence to add to the theoretical evidence showing the contrary.
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What about new encounter "small bunker hidden in wastelands...", we found one. Interesting, what chance to find it again? And what about perks "Explorer" and "Ranger"?
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As Crazy, i never had damage arroud 100 with Avenger.
same
Very often you must burst 4 times to kill 1 sniper guy, and in fight it looks like you must go like rambo this 15-20 hexes (and hope for no knock outs, critical hits hits over 100 and insta kills) and start shooting.. sometimes for 50 sometimes sometimes for 70 (shooting from max range). I would say bigguns are only good from 1 hex ;] (~ 200 dmg ).
Whats funny without 2x BRD perk, big guns (mostly avengers and miniguns) would be like toys ;] Make a big guns more useful, cause they are most expensive than other weapons but in my opinion not worth it ;] Its needed to craft like 400-500 5mm AP ammo for 1 fight when mfc is available from many encounters (when 5mm AP ammo only from BoS patrol and enclava ). Anyway plazma rifle needs 2-3 mfc to kill 1 guy ;] I think you made this unbalanced ;]
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What about new encounter "small bunker hidden in wastelands...", we found one. Interesting, what chance to find it again? And what about perks "Explorer" and "Ranger"?
The chance to find it is completely random. No perk nor stat does influence the chance.
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same
Very often you must burst 4 times to kill 1 sniper guy, and in fight it looks like you must go like rambo this 15-20 hexes (and hope for no knock outs, critical hits hits over 100 and insta kills) and start shooting.. sometimes for 50 sometimes sometimes for 70 (shooting from max range). I would say bigguns are only good from 1 hex ;] (~ 200 dmg ).
Whats funny without 2x BRD perk, big guns (mostly avengers and miniguns) would be like toys ;] Make a big guns more useful, cause they are most expensive than other weapons but in my opinion not worth it ;] Its needed to craft like 400-500 5mm AP ammo for 1 fight when mfc is available from many encounters (when 5mm AP ammo only from BoS patrol and enclava ). Anyway plazma rifle needs 2-3 mfc to kill 1 guy ;] I think you made this unbalanced ;]
The hell, why do you make BG builds that need 15-20 hexes to be efficient? I play BG right now and they are good enough if built right.
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The hell, why do you make BG builds that need 15-20 hexes to be efficient? I play BG right now and they are good enough if built right.
Basicaly this wipe you gotta make de Tank and 1hex burst all the time, instead of erratic crazy stupid ass run and gun build hitting 2047234707098 at 40 hex....
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And here is average hit from plasma rifle
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6748/plasmaz.png)
The hell, why do you make BG builds that need 15-20 hexes to be efficient? I play BG right now and they are good enough if built right.
then write me you great bg build with at least 9 PE and (if i understand well its needed over 220 bg skill to all bullets shoot the target from max range). Its not sniper dude ;]
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And here is average hit from plasma rifle
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6748/plasmaz.png)
then write me you great bg build with at least 9 PE and (if i understand well its needed over 220 bg skill to all bullets shoot the target from max range). Its not sniper dude ;]
I prefer keeping my builds to myself.
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adins just dont likle BGuns.
solar were you also testing it with psycho ?
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So first test was Avenger + 2xBRD to person who had only BA.
Second test was LSW + 25 crit chance to person who had only BA.
Can you test LSW with 25 crit chance AND 2x BRD ? Also you can do this test with Avenger. Then type and you will see ...
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The hell, why do you make BG builds that need 15-20 hexes to be efficient? I play BG right now and they are good enough if built right.
You probably don't understand the fact that the range of avenger minigun is 35 hexes and the range of the sniper rifle is 50 hexes. So basically, you need to run through 15-20hexes while a sniper can shoot you straight into your eyes without risking shit. In my opinion, last changes (AP ammo change, fast shot change) made big guns (especially minigun/avenger) something like water guns.
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In my opinion, last changes (AP ammo change, fast shot change) made big guns (especially minigun/avenger) something like water guns.
Cool! Water guns!
(http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/9/3437/z3437369X.jpg)
But seriously - I liked Fast Shot trait a lot. Now it's like a Bloody Mess trait - almost useless.
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So first test was Avenger + 2xBRD to person who had only BA.
Second test was LSW + 25 crit chance to person who had only BA.
Can you test LSW with 25 crit chance AND 2x BRD ? Also you can do this test with Avenger. Then type and you will see ...
First test was Avenger and LSW with 2 BRD. Then it was LSW to compare 2 BRD to 3* more crits, as crazy asked for.
adins just dont likle BGuns.
solar were you also testing it with psycho ?
Psycho wouldn't change anything because they would both be affected equally.
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But seriously - I liked Fast Shot trait a lot. Now it's like a Bloody Mess trait - almost useless.
Yeah, but problem is : a trait has to provide an advantage AND an disavantage for every type of character. Unfortunately, Fast Shot didn't have any negative side for a Big Gunner, it was a must-have. Maybe it should be rework again to allow Big Gunners to take this trait, but not set as it was before.
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There was a disadvantage - you couldn't aim. Any snipers here with Fast Shot?
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Can you test LSW with 25 crit chance AND 2x BRD ? Also you can do this test with Avenger. Then type and you will see ...
LSW:
BRDx2: ok, 20 shots
11:07:00 • BRDx2: lsw
11:07:03 • Gorlak was hit for 84 hit points.
11:07:06 • Gorlak was hit for 75 hit points.
11:07:11 • Gorlak was hit for 101 hit points.
11:07:13 • Gorlak was hit for 73 hit points.
11:07:17 • Gorlak was hit for 76 hit points.
11:07:21 • Gorlak was hit for 25 hit points.
11:07:24 • Gorlak was hit for 90 hit points.
11:07:28 • Gorlak was hit for 77 hit points.
11:07:31 • Gorlak was hit for 67 hit points.
11:07:35 • Gorlak was critically hit for 115 hit points.
11:07:39 • Gorlak was critically hit for 131 hit points.
11:07:42 • Gorlak was hit for 16 hit points.
11:07:46 • Gorlak was hit for 83 hit points.
11:07:50 • Gorlak was hit for 74 hit points.
11:07:53 • Gorlak was hit for 77 hit points.
11:07:57 • Gorlak was hit for 74 hit points.
11:08:03 • Gorlak was critically hit for 202 hit points and was killed.
11:08:12 • Gorlak was hit for 75 hit points.
11:08:16 • Gorlak was hit for 84 hit points.
11:08:33 • Gorlak was hit for 89 hit points.
11:08:36 • BRDx2: ok, 20
Avenger:
BRDx2: now avenger
11:08:48 • Gorlak was hit for 68 hit points.
11:08:50 • Gorlak was critically hit for 163 hit points.
11:08:54 • Gorlak was hit for 97 hit points.
11:08:58 • Gorlak was hit for 94 hit points.
11:09:01 • Gorlak was critically hit for 217 hit points.
11:09:05 • Gorlak was hit for 69 hit points.
11:09:09 • Gorlak was critically hit for 161 hit points.
11:09:12 • Gorlak was hit for 91 hit points.
11:09:16 • Gorlak was hit for 26 hit points.
11:09:21 • Gorlak was hit for 51 hit points.
11:09:25 • Gorlak was hit for 96 hit points.
11:09:27 • Gorlak was hit for 92 hit points.
11:09:31 • Gorlak was hit for 96 hit points.
11:09:35 • Gorlak was hit for 99 hit points.
11:09:39 • Gorlak was hit for 87 hit points.
11:09:42 • Gorlak was hit for 75 hit points.
11:09:46 • Gorlak was hit for 66 hit points.
11:09:49 • Gorlak was hit for 65 hit points.
11:09:53 • Gorlak was hit for 67 hit points.
11:10:08 • Gorlak was hit for 89 hit points.
11:10:11 • BRDx2: ok, 20
1869 Avenger (Average of 93.45) 1614 LSW (Average of 80.7)
Result as expected, again. (Theres nothing in the uncalled crit table that would favour LSW, so its like psycho and won't change relative power level.
Avenger is better.
Also, bursts still way out perform sniper type weapons in damage terms. There will be more perks (like stonewall) that protect against crit effects and a trait to reduce the crit roll ... snipers just haven't had all of their toning down done yet.
Fast Shot will be more useful - its actually useful for builds now though. Fast shot, pistol build + living anatomy. The concept will be expanded with future perk reworks though - at the moment its only really 14mm, .223 pistol and plasma pistol that are pvp kind of level.
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Solar, sorry, but... What about with better crit? ;p
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It will add a fraction of damage to each - its an identical boost to both, so add on 2 or 3 to each average :P
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Now lets talk about cost of using avenger and lsw then compare it to your statistics:) After that think about plasma rifle and it cost. Hmm something is not right :)
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Yup, costs are off at the moment.
As I see it we will eventually have:
Avenger & LSW (Tier 3 equivalents)
Minigun & M60 (Tier 2 equivalents)
Avenger costing about +50% to maintain - about $200 for a shot of AP (So 5mm AP costing $5) and LSW costing about $130 (So .223 FMJ costing $13 or so)
Then Minigun costing about $150 for a shot and M60 costing about $100 (7.62mm being $10).
The costs would be similar ratios to these and things will be done so its not so easy to get free LSW, Miniguns and Avengers - they'll still be avbailable, but arm cripples for free Miniguns or looting NCR Army after mutants kill them will be over. Hopefully we will get to the point where there is a tough (but fun?) fight for them.
I want to get decent weapons balance for everything and then re-cost in one go, so it all makes sense. I actually only took over doing the weapons changes on my own just before the last wipe, so its still early stages in the changes as far as I'm concerned.
Next wave of changes will be to the lowest tier of things (Shotgun, Mauser, Magnum, Knives, Knuckles, Spears etc) ... maybe a drop of the Plasma Rifle back to 24 hexes, depends how its playing in PvP at the moment.
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I really dont know where you take those numbers. Its just not true. I NEVER had damage over 80 with Avenger. What is wrong ?
And how its possible that i had critical for 69 damage to some sniper with Avenger ?
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And how its possible that i had critical for 69 damage to some sniper with Avenger ?
Ehm... I have x1 thoughness and BA, and I got that damage from simple minigun and non-critical.
50-60 is a damage from mini to me while I wearing BA and have x1 thoughness, I don't know what's perks and skill of shooter, but it's obviously x2 BRD.
I think your sniper psycho and beer and x2 thoughness addict in magical BA and evil GM cursed your avenger minigun.
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I stood, fired the Avenger 20 times, the fired the LSW 20 times and then copied the log. You can see exactly what I got ... so it must be true because it happened on the server ;)
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I stood, fired the Avenger 20 times, the fired the LSW 20 times and then copied the log. You can see exactly what I got ... so it must be true because it happened on the server ;)
And 2x toughness, Psycho and Beer ?
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Psycho and beer won't affect the difference because it affects them both equally.
2* Toughness reduces how much better the Avenger is, but it will still be better. Not that everyone uses 2*Toughness now and it will be used even less as we add more perk options in.
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Psycho and beer won't affect the difference because it affects them both equally.
2* Toughness reduces how much better the Avenger is, but it will still be better. Not that everyone uses 2*Toughness now and it will be used even less as we add more perk options in.
More perk opitons? :D You made most traits useless and lot of perk is useless too :D Only useful traits are one hander, good natured, skilled, small frame and finesse :D I found 15 usefull perks, all other perks are totally useless for all players from PvPers to crafters...
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That would be why they need more options adding in ;)
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That would be why they need more options adding in ;)
-Are you saying actual new Perks?
-Or just improvements to already-existing under-used ones?
Will we see these changes before a wipe?
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-Are you saying actual new Perks?
-Or just improvements to already-existing under-used ones?
Will we see these changes before a wipe?
IMO it will happen like for stonewall: boost already existing perk to make it interesting. But hell, you should have this BEFORE the wipe... Damn, my main char low ID with my exact name, that i love? I gonna say goodbye to him and play always another char, because I totally need stonewall.
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-Are you saying actual new Perks?
-Or just improvements to already-existing under-used ones?
Will we see these changes before a wipe?
New ones and improving old ones.
They'll come whenever they can be squeezed into the schedule I guess. One I'd like to see soon is the one like stonewall, but saving against weapon drops/criticals ... then we can give it to BoS/Enclave/Mutants to stop the old trick of crippling them in TB for easy kills ;)
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then we can give it to BoS/Enclave/Mutants to stop the old trick of crippling them in TB for easy kills ;)
Well the real problem is that you can't do anything if you are crippled, apart run or wait for death. Allow them to heal their limbs would be a better solution I think.
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Speaking of stonewall, its damn overpowered for a lvl 3 perk ( with 10 endurance ). On the other hand, pretty useless with endurance less than 6, so Id give a 6 endurance requirement and just 5 str requirement.
I think traits should be overhauled first, because as restart mentioned, most of them are useless.
Also modifying quick recovery, adrenaline rush, silent death, healer might give more options in creating various pvp builds.
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Speaking of stonewall, its damn overpowered for a lvl 3 perk ( with 10 endurance ). On the other hand, pretty useless with endurance less than 6, so Id give a 6 endurance requirement and just 5 str requirement.
I think traits should be overhauled first, because as restart mentioned, most of them are useless.
Also modifying quick recovery, adrenaline rush, silent death, healer might give more options in creating various pvp builds.
I'd love to see silent death made useful somehow. Maybe changed...
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I'd love to see silent death made useful somehow. Maybe changed...
It'll be useful if it'll work for any weapon if:
1) In real time only if you weren't in combat mode, so your first strike/shot(from 1-3 hexes) from behind will cause x2 damage, regardless of in sneak mode or not in sneak mode, your 1st attack from behind will always cause x2 damage, untill you will go out of combat mode again.
2) In turn based it'll cause x2 damage only if you strike/shoot(from 1-3 hexes) from behind while you were in sneak mode, again regardless you were seen or not, all you need is just to be in sneak mode (you can't reenter sneak in TB anyway after that, even if you'll hide), so it'll be again only for your 1st attack, and only if your victim is looking in opposite direction from you.
Requirements same as now.
So if you want to be SG/BG-burster in quarters playing kamikaze quake style or ambusher or you can simply ran to victim's back and burst, if you wasn't in combat mode (someone didn't shoot you while you were running to the victim), you'll deal x2 damage.
But to take this trait you'll need to spend points into unarmed and sneak, even if you're BG/SG-burster.
Or.. make it only for unarmed/melee, but then x2 damage will be useless, better give additional critical% and critical roll which will stack with better criticals, so you may make good critical roll and knock out target from behind if you made critical strike.
Adrenaline rush can be used as Psycho drug when your HP below 50%.
Quick recovery should give you also immunity or some kind of roll against knock backs from grenades and melee attacks.
You also forgot about quick pockets! Which should allow to you to move items from slots without using APs at all, so picking up droped weapon will consume only picking APs, while moving it from inventory to hand slot will consume nothing.
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Haha, the flood gates open.
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Haha, the flood gates open.
It was just a little suggestion, I'm really sorry for that wall of text.
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Requesting Solar to this thread http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=8853.0
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Well silent death is useless mostly due to the fact that sneak has been nerfed back into uselessness. That and you can't sneak within 3 hexes of a player so how are you ever supposed to pull off a melee attack.
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Well silent death is useless mostly due to the fact that sneak has been nerfed back into uselessness. That and you can't sneak within 3 hexes of a player so how are you ever supposed to pull off a melee attack.
That's why conditions should be change to "simply be in sneak mode" or something, so even if victim see you, it should negate perk's ability.
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New ones and improving old ones.
They'll come whenever they can be squeezed into the schedule I guess. One I'd like to see soon is the one like stonewall, but saving against weapon drops/criticals ... then we can give it to BoS/Enclave/Mutants to stop the old trick of crippling them in TB for easy kills ;)
OH MY GOD? WHY? You are trying to do this game more boring and more frustrating? I think this will make PvE non-playable for small groups of players. And the game will be little bit more boring (if it's posible).
Let see how this game works now for small gangs:
1. You can't mine because mines are under control of big gangs, at this time it's imposible to mine in Gecko. It's full of PKs and it's only mine... I don't want see this ''new great workbench system'' making of LVL 2 stuff will be really hard and LVL 3 stuff will be imposible.
2. You can't do TC because you will be crushed from bigger gangs and you will lose stuff which you were crafting like as*hole almost one day.
3. You can't do quests, because there is only 1 quest from more players.
4. You can't do PvE because if you want kill something like Remnants of masters army because their arms and legs are unbrokenable, there is about 20 mutants with 300 and more HP and their critical chances are pretty high.
5. There is nothing more to do in this game.
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Ah, so we should leave BoS Paladins farmable with a Mauser, I see!
Or not.
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I mine hq mats all the time and have gotten killed like once doing so, I've never seen a gang.
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Ah, so we should leave BoS Paladins farmable with a Mauser, I see!
Or not.
Not maybe with mauser, but they are "little" bit strong.
So they can be even little weaker than before.
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Ah, so we should leave BoS Paladins farmable with a Mauser, I see!
Or not.
What? When I tried kill BoS patrol with my friends, most of us died before we killed them, so it's not so easy... And no one is trying farm encounters except SF caravan, because in most cases ammo which you used has bigger value than stuff you loot.
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What? When I tried kill BoS patrol with my friends, most of us died before we killed them, so it's not so easy... And no one is trying farm encounters except SF caravan, because in most cases ammo which you used has bigger value than stuff you loot.
and yet enclave and BOS is still farmable with little resource/no risk with the right build.
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FIXES:
- Follower won't attack faction friend's followers (hopefully fixed this time).
thx :)
When we can see
- Follower won't attack faction member's followers?
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And what is the option "Kill everyone, but don't touch me or my friends" in mercs attack style options menu. How it should work?
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Ah, so we should leave BoS Paladins farmable with a Mauser, I see!
Or not.
BoS were never farmable with mauser. Before wipe i had crippler and kill one time one BoS palladin. But i kill him with 14 mm pistol. Crippled arm was the only way to kill him. Ah - there was only one palladin in this encounter. It was nearly impossible to kill two of them. Chance for crippled arm wasn't 100% even with finesse trait.
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BoS were never farmable with mauser.
Plenty of people were/are farming it.
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they farm mauser? they must be really poor guy ;[