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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Ned Logan on August 24, 2010, 03:03:01 pm
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I suggest level cap is removed. There instead would be a level break point (now lvl 21), where the formula for computing how many exp you need for next level is changed.
THE SPREADSHEET (http://mud.cz/levels.html)
I think this is a very simple change which would give people a reason to keep playing their main character, because they would still get the HP bonus, even the perks, even if in radically slowing down rate.
(This idea was buried in another thread and I though it is too good to be missed, so I post it in it's own thread.
lvl 21 in 5h is no record, I heard of someone making it in 4)
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I think this is a very simple change which would give people a reason to keep playing their main character, because they would still get the HP bonus, even the perks, even if in radically slowing down rate.
There are other reasons than infinite grinding to keep playing your main char. The way it seems to be, npc faction related pvp appears to be one of them in the future.
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I'm not opposed to test non-level-capped server, but seriously, less than 1500 centaurs to kill to become level 50 ? That's seriously not good.
The way I see it, if level cap was removed then it'd be better to have incredibly high amounts of experience points needed to gain another level (past 25-30), this way we wouldn't have guys level 60 before at least one year and getting new levels would still be possible - giving people a goal to achieve.
Edit : Oh, I'm so stupid right now (http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1207/tongueee.gif) You suggest exactly what I said, I read the wrong columns in your spreadsheet or something. You got my full support.
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Been playing a pve merc build for 2 months now..... Got around 45k exp... gone through lvl 21 twice and not having really achieved anything does kinda.... suck. +1
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dont you affraid that it will create imba characters?
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dont you affraid that it will create imba characters?
He's talkin SERIOUS grinding, I'm talking Runescape styled grinding where it will take a entire 24/7 day month to max out enough for another level.
The biggest problem I see is the POSSIBILITY, is more botting which is rare as fuck already because as of now FOnline isn't a grind at all unless you make it that way but with this..... the possibilty exists :-\
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He's talkin SERIOUS grinding, I'm talking Runescape styled grinding where it will take a entire 24/7 day month to max out enough for another level.
The biggest problem I see is the POSSIBILITY, is more botting which is rare as fuck already because as of now FOnline isn't a grind at all unless you make it that way but with this..... the possibilty exists :-\
You should know our players. They are ready to go far to achieve simpliest things in this game. When it comes to achievements where the opponent is a passive npc or even just time itself, there is no challenge. When there is no challenge, there shouldn't be reward either.
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Hitting the level cap is not really an "achievment" for me, but well.
If one suggests this he should always have in mind that people are greedy and they will grind the shit out of it.
Same as Mickel said, there will be much more bots then now. Sure it takes a bit longer with Neds Spread Sheet, but you'll see level 35-?? guys in no time.
I think this is the wrong way to go.
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Still, level 35 is quite okay. I think that level cap has to be removed (or capped at, like, 50), but in such a way that leveling up is an achievment itself :) That's one thing that will bring back "goals" in this game, really.
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Hitting an artificial levelcap is an achievment? :-\
Ok, I guess that depends on the playstyle. I feel more that I achieved something when I actually changed something in the world etc. ;) But anyway -
the thing with botting stays. Also, even with level 35 people will just have jack of all trades characters...
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Removing level cap will allow to return my beloved XP diminishing ^_^
Kill 1k of each critter type and then you'll need to kill another 1k of every type to get 1 level, so when someone says "Hahaha, stupid quest, walk throught all wasteland to get 400 XP" he won't say it anymore, because these 400 XP will be alot. As I can remember first 12 critters of one type bring you 100% XP, 13th critter less than 50%, I don't know what's next, but I think after 1k'th critter it'll bring like 5-10 XP, so removing level cap and returning XP diminishing will be good.
And of couse crafting XP should diminish too, I don't see how you can get life experience by crafting 100kk'th .44 FMJ bullet.
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But you would already have the experience needed to level-up going up at exponential rates, so why also bring back XP diminishing? Ned's chart would work already require a ton of experience even with no XP diminishing. I mean, Bob has over one million points (I'm about at 850K myself), and he would only be level 24.
As for level-caps, I think there should be one, and it should be an even number that is a multiple of 4 and 3. Less than 50, though. TLA's level cap is 36, if I'm not mistaken - That sounds okay actually. It would make fights longer :)
Of course, if we raise level-cap, then we would need to have a balancing-level factor in PvE. We don't need a level 36 beating up Enclave and Unity all by themselves :P The weaker you are, the weaker Encounters are, the higher you are, the harder they are, and if you are traveling in groups, then whoever is the highest level is what the balance goes by.
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Well, from level 30 to level 50, nothing changes much. I mean, you're not uber. A gifted level 21 could beat up a level 30. About PvE... Let's wait for the "hard difficulty areas" as Solar said, and we'll see if mobs would need to be harder to kill.
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I somewhat agree but, lvl 22 should have req of lvl 23 to acquire at least 10h or 466 centaurs. and then it is ok. I dont agree up to perks. Just lets say 2 HP increase each lvl and skill points.
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466 centaurs
That's why I said about XP diminishing, damned centaurs, centaurs everywhere. Soon Wasteland will have no centaurs at all, because everyone hunt these poor animals, also it will kill brain of player to kill centaurs 24/7, you'll see them in your dreams and in few weeks you will see them in real life. Why centaurs? Why do you need carnivore plants and dogs then or ants or scorpions? Let's remove all critters but molerats and centaurs, if you're not able to kill centaurs, then go kill molerats (even after fix it'll be the best choice after centaurs, because they have the lowest HP - XP ratio, even pigrats have the same HP(ok, on 1 less, molerat is 29 HP, pigrat 28) and they give only 50 XP) so what reason to hunt something else, when you can do that only on molerats and centaurs.
Ok, don't bring XP diminishing, then add CD on every type of critter or wasteland square, if you had an encounter in that square, you can't have it again there for some time, or if you encountered centaurs, you'll not be able do to that again for some time, the same as SF caravans, muties, Enclave/BoS, unity patrols.
Why noone can't farm items so fast, but everyone can farm XP.
Or just change XP system like this:
(http://a.imageshack.us/img829/1986/19097192.png)
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yeah cd on centaurs would be good or maybe lower or make xp dimnshing on centaurs...
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Or just change XP system like this:
(http://a.imageshack.us/img829/1986/19097192.png)
Owned xD
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Cooldown on centaurs ? I see no problem with centaurs right now. One critter needs to be the one that gives the most experience on death. Doesn't mean you can't balance the critter, though.
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Yeah dimnishing exp is good idea ("Level: 1, Frank Horrigans killed: 0, Frank Horrigans till lvlup: 1" teehee), but not fulfilling the purpose I had in mind - supporting playing your main char...
The arguments about the bots are unfortunately true and I'd hate to make this game a boring grind.
So maybe on reaching lvl 21 repetitive tasks like killing monsters, crafting, evading encounters should not give you exp, only for example special rare things could, which wouldn't be farmable, like for example quests you can do only once, get them only if you are lvl 21. Questgivers for such quests could be only found in special encounters or caves, making a record in your pipboy so you can do it when you reach lvl 21 and so you can't stack or sell them. This set of special quests could get you to lvl 24.
This way everyone would want to have most powerful build possible (lvl 24) so keeping playing his main char much longer and generic alts would remain weaker lvl 21s, thus fulfilling the purpose of this suggestion...
Then of course, the question is - what do do when you got all the guests and you are lvl 24? Something else I guess :)
Another bad thing about this is that it is supporting only one kind of gameplay - explorer/quester (I like that most).
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Cooldown on centaurs ? I see no problem with centaurs right now. One critter needs to be the one that gives the most experience on death. Doesn't mean you can't balance the critter, though.
Then make this one critter with ranged attack killing every player on sight shouting something about griefers. Because if it's the most tough critter, why they always kill them 24/7 alone, yes, they spend resources on fuel, but I think they also should risk to die may be? Melee critters should give much less XP than shooting guys who gives like 100 XP, but he'll kill you in few seconds, while molerat die from 1 frag grenade and 1 punch and gives 120 XP and they're melee, just give them surround you and they're dead.
XP diminishing solved that problem easily, yes, it was annoying to create another alt, because you have 10 21st levels already and you're bored, that's why this topic saying about removing level cap, so getting 21st level will be really hard, and getting from 21st level to 22nd level will be time consuming like create fresh 10 alts and lvl up them from 1st to 21st level, so there's a choice: have 1 character 22nd level, or 10 characters 21st level, and I'm not talking about 23th and so on, but it should be possible if you're focused on one character + you know that your character has no limit, it gives much more interest to play.
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Then of course, the question is - what do do when you got all the guests and you are lvl 24?
More quests :p
lvl up after 21 would be quest like. Kill 1000 rogues, 2000 Enclave etc :p
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More quests :p
lvl up after 21 would be quest like. Kill 1000 rogues, 2000 Enclave etc :p
Who the hell do you think the fonline community is a bunch of Leeroy Jenkin clones, holy hell!? XD
That'd take a year, even if you no-lifed, and then it'd be worthless cus of Wipes.
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That'd take a year, even if you no-lifed, and then it'd be worthless cus of Wipes.
BÄM!
The nail was critically hit on the head for >9000 HP.
Because everything is worthless, except for the experience... Of grinding, mining, being killed and frustrated. Hard work for nothing, that's grind.
You can quit, but you don't want to, because you hope it to be better. You see no end to it, you keep on grinding, because you want to be better than everyone else, who are also grinding. Endless race without finish. That's grind.
Screw it. If you want something really original, make those 21 levels flexible. Twist and turn them. Reset skillpoints and reassign them, if you want to play something else. Spend caps for plastic and brain surgeries. Install implants. Not Fallouty for you? Mutate then! Or should there be magic instead? It's a MMOG.
Players should be animated to stay. Why should i even bother to elaborate further, why the players keep on playing? Every one of you know the answer.
But hey!
Feel free to ignore this post and face the irony of ignoring and being ignored.
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Who the hell do you think the fonline community is a bunch of Leeroy Jenkin clones, holy hell!? XD
That'd take a year, even if you no-lifed, and then it'd be worthless cus of Wipes.
Well this was my first though, but needs balancing fo shizzle. The levels after 21 should be very hard to get, lets say worthless the effort, but for some it may be a good way to follow!
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Hope i am not necroposting ))
My idea: remove the levelcap but cap all tagged skills at 250, all non-tagged skills at 150 - this means that you still have to specialize. Remove the Tag perk, remove sniper perk.
Cap player HP depending on player Stamina (for example 1=100, 2=125, 3=150 ... 10=325), remove the lifegiver perk.
Sneak is nerfed already so not that much of an issue.
Those who want to craft don't really need a pvp char any longer and life won't end at level 21.
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Hope i am not necroposting ))
My idea: remove the levelcap but cap all tagged skills at 250, all non-tagged skills at 150 - this means that you still have to specialize. Remove the Tag perk, remove sniper perk.
Cap player HP depending on player Stamina (for example 1=100, 2=125, 3=150 ... 10=325), remove the lifegiver perk.
Sneak is nerfed already so not that much of an issue.
Those who want to craft don't really need a pvp char any longer and life won't end at level 21.
lol why? even for now there is players who play with 300% skill, for example I on my lockpicker ;]
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because with level cap 21 300 skill means you can do absolutely nothing else. without levelcap we will have chars with 300 in 3 skills and this is a bit overpowered as I see it, but maybe others think differently - i just threw in an idea )
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because with level cap 21 300 skill means you can do absolutely nothing else. without levelcap we will have chars with 300 in 3 skills and this is a bit overpowered as I see it, but maybe others think differently - i just threw in an idea )
Wha? Ask people who are bigguners with 300% outdoorsman... Test it, try it, don't talk bullshits ;)
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You cant have more than 170 big guns with 300 outdoor, and your stats are shitty since you wasted it on int and char. So those guys are not bigguners, they can just USE big guns to some extent (flamer to level up for instance). I dont erally care about tagged skills being 300 or not but i absolutely sure that non-tagged should not go above 150 if you can level past 21
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obt2 fonline server here is no lvl cap :P
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Dismishing experience points again ? No thanks ...
Nasty Floater - First kill 1000xp, after 250xp.
And if someone think that kill about 100 floaters and 100 centaurs is easy thing, so its funny ...
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Dismishing experience points again ? No thanks ...
Nasty Floater - First kill 1000xp, after 250xp.
And if someone think that kill about 100 floaters and 100 centaurs is easy thing, so its funny ...
You don't need to kill floaters and centaurs all the time.
Prewipe I got 20th and almost 21st level before they removed diminishing XP.
Yes.. it took alot time, but I was everywhere, in every part of California, to find critter I never killed before, so it was somehow interesting, than afterwipe "killing damned molerats". I'm sick of molerats, I can't watch on them, even in F2, when I encountered molerats I reflexed started shoot thier eyes and pressing "C" button to check how many left till 21st. I hope devs will change thier crit table, because shooting eyes of mutated molerats is frustrating. Before, when there was no diminishing XP, I had to travel across California to kill atleast 12 tough deathclaws, 12 dogs, 12 big mutated scorpions, 12 brahmins, 12 mantises, 12 mutated molerats, 12 endless walkers, 12 spore plants, 12 muties, 12 floaters, 12 centaurs, and only then start killing poor molerats! Because 13th kill of the same type brough you like 40% of XP, and after 20th kill there was really low XP.
I can remember getting 60 XP!!!! It was so cool! I was so happy that I got 60 XP for killing some brahmin, only because I killed them less than 12 yet.
But then 11 XP for some ghoul, 8 XP for some pigrat, 5 XP for scorpion, well... atleast it made you to shoot at different pixels, not walking chunks of XP on 4 legs aka mutated moles. Diminishing XP was fun, and if they will remove level cap, it'll be reasonable.
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Make xp diminish every 10 kills of a particular type, the increment being 1%.
The bottom of the scale would be 30% of regular XP. (After 700 kills.)
Maybe make that per 5 kills, or even 1 or 2 kills. (?)
This would begin starting at Level 10.
The incrementing would double in speed as well as the bottom end going down to 20% at Level 20.
(So the Final Stretch to 21 would be intensified, unless you saved a whole class of stuff to kill until then.)
After 21st level, xp requirements increase in regular pattern plus 10% per level. (non-cumulative.)
So 21 to 22 is 22000 plus 2200 = 24200, etc.
22 to 23 is 25200 plus 2520 = 27720
23 to 24 is 28720 plus 2872 = 31522
etc.
Or have Storyteller (XP trader) in Trapper Town, Followers Library, and Necropolis.
Cash in those useless beyond-level-21 XP for caps and Rep.
I don't know what the ratio should be.
Maybe have the Storyteller for after the Level 30 Cap.
FO2 was supposed to have a De-Facto lv 30 cap, because they (according to Hendee) thought no one would grind more than that.
I would make it a hard cap.
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I agree with this. After a certain point, players will have so much health that battles will last longer. Which means you actually have the time to strategize during a fight rather than it be a duel of who can click faster. And if skill points keep coming, more players will be able to use multiple weapons, which will allow more fights to happen.
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I haven't played this game for half of the year already, mostly for one main reason - this game becomes a simple shooter (and rather mediorce one) after hitting a levelcap, offering absolutely no way to develop a character further. No doubt that removing the level limitation would result in some players being stronger than others - and it's a good thing. It' supposted to be rpg after all. Obviously, there are 5-10% of no lifes on the server that would grind 24/7 - just like in any other mmorpg. But I see no reason why all the others have to suffer because of this small group. Ofc +1 for removing the max level as I believe that it would motivate a lot of people to return to this game (me for sure).
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You just want make this game "more pain in ass" for some players ...
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You just want make this game "more pain in ass" for some players ...
I really like idea of more levels but one thing is certainly true. It will make even bigger "abyss" between low-levels and high-levels
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I really like idea of more levels but one thing is certainly true. It will make even bigger "abyss" between low-levels and high-levels
I wanted to say that people who want back diminishing xp want make this game "more pain in ass".
Idea about more levels and etc is good for me, but as you said, one thing is true, big difference beetwen newbies and high levels !
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It will make even bigger "abyss" between low-levels and high-levels
one thing is true, big difference beetwen newbies and high levels !
Well, I don't see any problem here. Does it really make a difference for a newbie if he is killed by 200hp or 300hp guy?
When I play as a newbie I just run away if I see any armed guys on the desert and I don't really care what level they are. Think about it this way.
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I Dont like the Idea of people having FUCK TONNES of HP, But Everything Else, I Would love Surpassing lvl 21
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I don't like this idea. I think level 21 as a limit is perfect because it makes us think about what we really want to use our characters for. Let's say there is no level cap and we can get to level 99: we could spend skill points in two or three combat skills, in Lockpick, in Sneak, in Outdoorsman, in Steal... Level cap means better planned and more defined characters. It also means more alts, yes, but I prefer alts instead of super characters. Instead of talking about removing the level cap we should be talking about giving players less reasons to make alts... Even when, in my opinion, just being in a gang should make you have less alts because different players can play different characters (and loners should simply be mature and brave enough to face the consequences of playing a loner).
So I don't agree. I don't even agree with raising the cap to a higher level.
And reaching level 21 is not boring. I don't know about you, but I don't get fun from a "Level up" message, but from a good hit which kills my enemy, or from roleplaying, or simply interacting with other people, etc...
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No matter how harder you would make the level progressing after level 21 you would still see a team of level 50 players in few months. Invinsible players.
Level cap at 21 is realistic enough (with some minor fixes in my opinion). The thing is, that we cannot allow one player to be alien towards another, we all should represetnt humans, meaning we all should be able to die by one shot. That means, more or less realistic amount of HP for everybody.
Maybe some other reward then what usually gaining a level gives could be something usefull for those crazy leveling loving players (dont like leveling personally). Some visual goodies, special armor acess (that is more visual then anything powerfull meaning, like the ranger armor). Not sure what else, but something uniqe that still doesint make you stronger, it just makes you cooler and you still could feel like you achived something.
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If you think that it is good idea then Livegiver (http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Perks) should be disabled.
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If you remove the levelcap but introduce HP cap it will work
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Well, I don't see any problem here. Does it really make a difference for a newbie if he is killed by 200hp or 300hp guy?
When I play as a newbie I just run away if I see any armed guys on the desert and I don't really care what level they are. Think about it this way.
Wait... WHAT?!
Huge difference! When You have guy with 200Hp You can think about some way of retaliation. Gathering some other low level players or trying to make some kind of trap. Even suicidal. You have some possibilities. With 300+ hp guy... You are just focked.
If you think that it is good idea then Livegiver (http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Perks) should be disabled.
I guess it was Wichura's idea, to make Lifegiver perk which gives You one time bonus of ~30hp. Brilliant!
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I dont think this game already needs lenghtening of mindless grinding which exping now actually is. If there would be tons of quests, dungeons, events, group pve and pvp stuff, exping might actually become fun. Now it is only griding and it should be as short as possible.
Actually I have reason to play my character mostly after lvl 21 when character is "complete" and can fill its purpose as best as posssible.
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Wait... WHAT?!
Huge difference! When You have guy with 200Hp You can think about some way of retaliation. Gathering some other low level players or trying to make some kind of trap. Even suicidal. You have some possibilities. With 300+ hp guy... You are just focked.
Nah, not really - it's just the matter of one lucky shot (not that I like it).
Anyway, huge amounts of hp is something that I wouldn't like to see either. Removing levelcap would obviously require quite radical change in character build mechanics, so people would not become overpowered. Many interesting ideas (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=5544.45) were discussed at polish section some time ago, a little summery of it (and in english) can be found here (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=5678.msg49003#msg49003). General conclusion is that it's a hp gain that makes people overpowered, not the actual level. So, fixing a hp at some level, along with allowing players to get only additional skill points & perks is the way to go. This way characters will become a bit more universal (2 weapon proffessions + sneak on 50th level - is it unrealistic or something?), but still far from being jacks of all trades and still quite mortal.
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Nah, not really - it's just the matter of one lucky shot (not that I like it).
Anyway, huge amounts of hp is something that I wouldn't like to see either. Removing levelcap would obviously require quite radical change in character build mechanics, so people would not become overpowered. Many interesting ideas (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=5544.45) were discussed at polish section some time ago, a little summery of it (and in english) can be found here (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=5678.msg49003#msg49003). General conclusion is that it's a hp gain that makes people overpowered, not the actual level. So, fixing a hp at some level, along with allowing players to get only additional skill points & perks is the way to go. This way characters will become a bit more universal (2 weapon proffessions + sneak on 50th level - is it unrealistic or something?), but still far from being jacks of all trades and still quite mortal.
Yeey, look at creator of thread on polish sub' :>
From what i heard. Dev's are working now on some kind solution. They gone (somehow) balance fighting skills with those not hostile ones. I have no idea how it will work but I'm curious about result. It might work someday ;]
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I disagree on increased lvl cap because its not needed. Having more hp and skill points makes you bit stronger but you'll die at the same rate as now, its just more grinding and more boring.
I have 2 characters that are 36lvl on russian server, this is very boring, find encounter kill npc loot, find encounter kill npc loot, and over and over and over again. I don't want grind festival fonline.
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I disagree on increased lvl cap because its not needed. Having more hp and skill points makes you bit stronger but you'll die at the same rate as now, its just more grinding and more boring.
I have 2 characters that are 36lvl on russian server, this is very boring, find encounter kill npc loot, find encounter kill npc loot, and over and over and over again. I don't want grind festival fonline.
Playing game is also boring look: Turn on, play, turn off then again turn on, play, turn off and again and again... looks boring yea? I'm just pointing up that Your argument is invalid.
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I support this suggestion as it is a great step towards reducing this alt idiocity that is going around.
EDIT: also, someone posted a very promising suggestion, some time ago, about adding bonuses to crafters ( like more DT and DR for armor crafters or more demage/range for weapons crafters ) sorry for off topic but I think these two suggestion would greatly improve the game
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I support this suggestion as it is a great step towards reducing this alt idiocity that is going around.
EDIT: also, someone posted a very promising suggestion, some time ago, about adding bonuses to crafters ( like more DT and DR for armor crafters or more demage/range for weapons crafters ) sorry for off topic but I think these two suggestion would greatly improve the game
nah. In this system everyone would have Imba mega ownage hyped 50lvl+ PvP char and still keep 5 8lvl crafters and traders. This wont remove SPECIAL restrictions for crafting, trading, slaving etc....
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nah. In this system everyone would have Imba mega ownage hyped 50lvl+ PvP char and still keep 5 8lvl crafters and traders. This wont remove SPECIAL restrictions for crafting, trading, slaving etc....
did you read this thread? do you know the amount of exp needed for lvl 50? you can't be serious
maybe you would keep alts for crafting and trading, I wouldn't if i had an option to keep developing characters skills.
it's obvious people will still make alts just because it's easier to get to lvl 5 than 22. but the point is people who don't want to use alts won't have to, and still fully apriciate the game. because right now, if you want a char that can participate in pvp, you also need 2 alts because your fighter can't even wipe it's own ass
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nah. In this system everyone would have Imba mega ownage hyped 50lvl+ PvP char and still keep 5 8lvl crafters and traders. This wont remove SPECIAL restrictions for crafting, trading, slaving etc....
Even though you would not be able to reach 50th level in reasonable time, with the initial post's system implemented - maxing out your combat skills would leave you no chice but to spread the rest of skill points onto technical skills, eventually removing the reason to use alts. Also keep in mind that having alts is not a bad thing itself - it's disability to fully enjoy a game without them that is.
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Also keep in mind that having alts is not a bad thing itself - it's disability to fully enjoy a game without them that is.
In my opinion-
Wrong... You can easily play without alts... easily... Alts simply make it easierly easier, because many people are too ... hmmm, can someone give me a correct term? something about not trying to enjoy the game properly. I won't bother going into details on how not to play with alts because people will continue to use alts anyways so why bother.