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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Arminius on January 12, 2010, 12:32:20 am

Title: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Arminius on January 12, 2010, 12:32:20 am
There's been a project for roleplaying in the Hub driven mostly by a few admins, who was going fairly well. Sectors of the Hub's society gained life by the hands of skilled roleplayers, and the interactions between such facets of society make the gameplay all the richer. It's beginning of course, but if well played and thought we could have a good place.

But, wherever go new players, griefers always follow.

The project is good, but for realistic roleplay to be enforced things have to change. It's not realistic for suicide bombers so often and willingly begin blowing up places into pieces, and returning again with new bombs. This can't be considered RP, it's not realistic and disrupts the possibility of playing other roles.

-We need tighter controls in the Hub: stuff like permaflagging after suicide-bombing, checkpoints where guards review the inventory of other guys looking for high-end weapons and grenades-explosives.This widespread dissemination of advanced weaponry is not realistic in a wasteland universe, and must not be tolerated within a Roleplay town.
-We need empowered players: either Players must be guarded by NPC's henchmen at the selling points, or have special policing powers. Make a sort of Hub militia to prevent further disruptions.

I wouldn't be annoyed if this happened in some meant-to-be PVP town like Modoc or Klamath or even Broken Hills. The whole issue here it's that it happened in a guarded city, and that suicide bombers suck the benefits of guarded cities. It's like PVP-ers from a PVP wow server managed to enter a non-PVP server and wreck hell there.

This game concept, so I understand, is meant to please everyone, and thus guarded cities must be made safe. Suicide bombers are not realistic here: they lose almost nothing here, while in real life they lose everything. And roleplaying is about playing a role: the role of a suicide bomber is not dying as many times as he can. He gets to die once, if he's not even caught before by guards.

I understand that the concept of this game is not RP-focused, I understand that the game is for everyone. But for fuck sake, we went to the HUB. Before us, the Hub was fucking empty. Nobody wanted to enter the Hub before us. Nobody's turf. Doesn't matter, people still follow you and not out of any interest, legitimate gaming goal, be it power-attaining or not. It's simply ingame trolling, and it shouldn't be tolerated.

I hope my arguments get through and I hope someone is able to help us here. Devs can't be online 24/7, but hell shouldn't break lose when they're offline. There must be something we can do to put a tombstone in suicide bombing, literally and metaphorically.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Lexx on January 12, 2010, 12:38:48 am
It's impossible to tell the difference between a suicide bomber and someone who got a bomb into his inventory via stealing skill. But beside this, it is already the case that a suicide bomber has a much longer respawn timer.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Wire on January 12, 2010, 12:45:25 am
Ill say something tomorrow.

[edit by Atom] Q: Why didn't I delete this post? A: For this warning to be read and understood.
I understand. It wasnt a good move, to reply this way. Sorry/
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Arminius on January 12, 2010, 12:51:12 am
It's impossible to tell the difference between a suicide bomber and someone who got a bomb into his inventory via stealing skill. But beside this, it is already the case that a suicide bomber has a much longer respawn timer.
Not always the case. Also, the 24 hour flag does not always work. Abdullah bombed twice on the same day. Some others just bring in grenade alts. It's unbearable, and must be dealt with definitely. They shouldn't even be allowed the time to plant stuff: right at city's entrance, they should be checked for explosives and if positive the result they should be jailed/killed. At least in a legitimate RP town, otherwise this stuff will keep happening and RP will lose all its fun.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Tennessee on January 12, 2010, 12:57:47 am
I was roleplaying the other day in the Maltese Falcon under the name of Mutated Toe when a suicide bomber came in and blew himself up while i was having a drink at the bar. I thought it was hilarious and roleplayed right along with it. You see just before he blew up I had just asked the barkeep to give me a triple shot of his strongest stuff. He had just handed it over when KABOOOM! I was knocked clear across the room from the bar by the blast! As I layed there recovering from the knock down I exclaimed "What a kick!" and got up went back to the bar and told the barkeep "Man that was some powerful stuff you gave me, hand me over another my good man!" lol. it was great!  Out of all my roleplaying experience that is surely going to stick out in my memory forever.

EDIT: I just remembered what happened after that. Someone came in saying they were Canadian. The barkeep apparently had a bad experience with Cannadians at some point because he all of a sudden ran amok all over the place like a crazy man screaming "CANADIANS!!! AAAAAGHHHHH!!!!" And finally after settling down he said he was quitting as bartender. So I yelled "FREE BOOZE!" and went behind the counter. Then some rough looking characters came up to the bar asking for a drink. So I started serving the drinks. All of a sudden I was bartender, lol. Then a friend came in and found me behind the bar and said "Damn Toe, I thought you were dead!" I was starting to feel the itch for some action again so I took off my apron and said "I quit too!" and my partner and I took off on another hunting trip in the wasteland.  Ah... good times... :)
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Lexx on January 12, 2010, 01:00:34 am
What I personally find much more interesting is the fact that someone takes it up to bomb one, two or three people in the Hub instead of many many people in the NCR. Look's like this isn't funny anymore.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: naskiel32 on January 12, 2010, 01:01:19 am
They shouldn't even be allowed the time to plant stuff: right at city's entrance, they should be checked for explosives and if positive the result they should be jailed/killed. At least in a legitimate RP town, otherwise this stuff will keep happening and RP will lose all its fun.


that is a good idea like in fallout 2 when u was tryin take booze to vault city the guard npc was active in that mater (ok i dont tryied it here) but that is a way
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Arminius on January 12, 2010, 01:19:19 am
I was roleplaying the other day in the Maltese Falcon under the name of Mutated Toe when a suicide bomber came in and blew himself up while i was having a drink at the bar. I thought it was hilarious and roleplayed right along with it. You see just before he blew up I had just asked the barkeep to give me a triple shot of his strongest stuff. He had just handed it over when KABOOOM! I was knocked clear across the room from the bar by the blast! As I layed there recovering from the knock down I exclaimed "What a kick!" and got up went back to the bar and told the barkeep "Man that was some powerful stuff you gave me, hand me over another my good man!" lol. it was great!  Out of all my roleplaying experience that is surely going to stick out in my memory forever.

You're gonna love it when it happens over and over until it's no longer funny. Sure, I had a blast with the first guy, going all like "WHO THE HELL GONNA CLEAN THIS MESS NOW? I HATE MY JOB!" But right now it's lost all the fun, when bombers powergame up to you just ruining the whole roleplaying. I'm gonna continue playing, but let's see how it'll go now. If it reaches the point of being unbearable, I don't see the point of trying a RP town then.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Tennessee on January 12, 2010, 01:25:00 am
Yeah I see your point, you spent a lot more time in there than I did. I only saw it happen once. So I do sympathize. Why not just ban the abusers IPs?
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: naskiel32 on January 12, 2010, 01:28:43 am
Why not just ban the abusers IPs?

i really dont think GMs start doing that  :(
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Arminius on January 12, 2010, 02:04:32 am
Yeah I see your point, you spent a lot more time in there than I did. I only saw it happen once. So I do sympathize. Why not just ban the abusers IPs?


Their whole point is that they risk banning innocent players who might have suffered a bomb planting by one of these bombers. But that's why I suggested the whole checkpoint idea: single entrance to the Hub, you get checked for illegal armaments and if you've got them, you're either jailed, banned for a day, killed, IP banned, etc.

Actually, IP ban is very difficult to do, with most IP's being dynamic nowadays and all.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Tennessee on January 12, 2010, 02:26:17 am
Oh i see. The jail idea sounds cool. Maybe we could get sold into slavery for a day or something. Or while in jail, or where the slaves are kept, we could make attempts to break out, or friends could try to break us out. It would make for some interesting game play. But I guess it is supposed to be a punishment and not just another way to have fun, lol. Hmm, we could have roleplayer NPCs played by mods/gms who run the jail and the punnished character can talk with them while they do their time. :)
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Vindict on January 12, 2010, 02:35:23 am
Quote
checkpoint idea: single entrance to the Hub, you get checked for illegal armaments and if you've got them, you're either jailed, banned for a day, killed, IP banned, etc.

I think it's a good solution, and  should be implemented in all guarded towns.

In addiotion to that... it would also be good if all illegal armaments (bombs) would be tradable only in unguarded towns

Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Lena on January 12, 2010, 02:37:49 am
Two bombs in 24 hours and you're already crying.
I got killed 3 times for no reason by admin and his friends in one day.

How's that for role play? Blah. We need shooting cooldown, 1 shot per 2 minutes.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Vindict on January 12, 2010, 03:22:50 am
Lena, I think bombing a town is a good reason to be killed

you like blowing people up, but you don't like it when they hunt you down later huh ?  ;)
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: StoneCrow on January 12, 2010, 03:26:39 am
maybe anyone who dies marked as a criminal in the hub could "wake up"
to find themselves in jail  ;D

and repeat offenders, who find themselves without the costly "repeat offender" bail money,
could have an embarrasing public execution.

hehe i was serious about the first bit but maybe not the second
i mean there is one ressurect where you wake up in someones house and they tell you that they found you in the desert, why not one where you ressurect in a jail with a set of shiny chains and a big muscular cop.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: naskiel32 on January 12, 2010, 03:30:51 am
maybe anyone who dies marked as a criminal in the hub could "wake up"
to find themselves in jail  ;D

good one  rlly good  lets say 1h or somthin
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Aryan on January 12, 2010, 03:59:41 am
As much as i love a good whineeee thread i have a couple of suggestions to protect your precious bar

1) Station a few guards inside the bar, these coupld be epic instakill guards as we saw earlier in the beta with all guards
2 ) station two guys outside the doors to the bar and have them search people entering, this feature is avaliable in tla and is used by the vc guards to search for 'contraband'

situation is anyone tries too enter the bar with bomb (big gun, gernades etc) is either not allowed in or killed, people who attempt to run past guards searching as basically insta killed by guards inside etc

your role play rules shouldnt apply to the whole town, theres alot of facalities in the hub being used for a very long time before you guys called the hub home, but your right the bar was dead and you type of people should have a place you can do you thing without being hassled
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Sailor on January 12, 2010, 04:30:21 am
As much as i love a good whineeee thread i have a couple of suggestions to protect your precious bar

1) Station a few guards inside the bar, these coupld be epic instakill guards as we saw earlier in the beta with all guards
2 ) station two guys outside the doors to the bar and have them search people entering, this feature is avaliable in tla and is used by the vc guards to search for 'contraband'

situation is anyone tries too enter the bar with bomb (big gun, gernades etc) is either not allowed in or killed, people who attempt to run past guards searching as basically insta killed by guards inside etc

your role play rules shouldnt apply to the whole town, theres alot of facalities in the hub being used for a very long time before you guys called the hub home, but your right the bar was dead and you type of people should have a place you can do you thing without being hassled

agreed, roleplay some protection for your bar.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Samurai on January 12, 2010, 05:27:14 am
EDIT: I just remembered what happened after that. Someone came in saying they were Canadian. The barkeep apparently had a bad experience with Cannadians at some point because he all of a sudden ran amok all over the place like a crazy man screaming "CANADIANS!!! AAAAAGHHHHH!!!!" And finally after settling down he said he was quitting as bartender. So I yelled "FREE BOOZE!" and went behind the counter. Then some rough looking characters came up to the bar asking for a drink. So I started serving the drinks. All of a sudden I was bartender, lol. Then a friend came in and found me behind the bar and said "Damn Toe, I thought you were dead!" I was starting to feel the itch for some action again so I took off my apron and said "I quit too!" and my partner and I took off on another hunting trip in the wasteland.  Ah... good times... :)


You're gonna love it when it happens over and over until it's no longer funny. Sure, I had a blast with the first guy, going all like "WHO THE HELL GONNA CLEAN THIS MESS NOW? I HATE MY JOB!" But right now it's lost all the fun, when bombers powergame up to you just ruining the whole roleplaying. I'm gonna continue playing, but let's see how it'll go now. If it reaches the point of being unbearable, I don't see the point of trying a RP town then.

Hehe, I was logged then on Hub Barman, good to hear you liked my roleplay ;)
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Deon on January 12, 2010, 07:49:47 am
I find it strange how in Hub you can enter in multiple places but exit only through the main one. In other towns it's not the issue. And the town is supposed to be surrounded by walls, thus a single entrance with checkpoint would do.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Izual on January 12, 2010, 09:20:50 am
We'll try to look for a solution, but for now the only available is to watch the town with a GM all the day, which is just impossible. But when I'm online, I'll make sure no one abuse of the suicide-bombing feature, if I can.


-----------------------------
Two bombs in 24 hours and you're already crying.
I got killed 3 times for no reason by admin and his friends in one day.
Oh, Lena, you're not aware of it ? Atom solved your problem ! (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=708.msg5514#msg5514)
Now stop trolling or you'll get shot. With a big cooldown. Your flame is just insanely irrelevant.
------------------
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Deon on January 12, 2010, 09:29:32 am
One small bar without PK wouldn't hurt anyone.
This is too bloated.

People hang out in one place, making no XP nor profit, just for fun? This is cool. People come there to grief? This is bad.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Lexx on January 12, 2010, 09:43:33 am
i saw situation when some guy just been killed by admin absolutely with no reason.
so, i undestand now why that much people just destroying this place.

Don't talk bullshit. We have strict rules and all commands are logged. So if one admin or GM would kill someone, we can see it in the logs. Beside this, I bet my soul that the bombs are not "to destry it because a admin killed someone", it's more because of the lulz. It's more funny to bomb people who really rage then instead of bombing other people or don't bomb at all.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: AmneziaHaze on January 12, 2010, 09:50:44 am
i never planted bomb yet, but i have screen from this situation. he just using npc-guards to killing others, thats why he "dont kill nobody". so.. think who really talk bullshit and who exactly destroying this server. i see now who is real troll on this forum. this is end for me, i understand now whats the point.

if you want see some truth about this pathetic situation check this:
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=785.0

sorry for spam, i dont understand what happend with my posts, now im sure who i who.
 
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Lexx on January 12, 2010, 09:54:47 am
We can see this aswell.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Rejfyl on January 12, 2010, 09:55:16 am
AmneziaHaze: You are trolling on polish board, and after most of your post was removed by moderator, you started to doing same thing here. We all now that you are not interested in RP. Why are you comming to Hub then?
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Deon on January 12, 2010, 09:56:04 am
Naming admins trolls in public wouldn't make the things better.

Will I be right if I ask to stop calling admins abusers and solve the situation in private? I am sure new players won't be happy to see such discussion on the main board.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Surf on January 12, 2010, 01:26:37 pm
And the fact that Izual is doing his job really good (never saw him "abusing" anything) tells me, that some people are just paranoid or something, or is it just envy of the "power"? I am actually surprised, that such an obvious trolling on here doesn't be handled that harsh. :D


Anyway, this is a bar, in a city which is very huge, surrounded bye walls and guarded with many many guards. There are just a few players in there and I agree that it seems to be a bit poor, just to roleplay there. But it first has to establish for expanding, when I was in the hub the last time, there were people talking to policemen, discussing about books in the "library" etc - it's already expanding. But it does not grow bigger, if some assholes come in there exploding and yelling "allah akbah" at someones corpse. It's not only stupid because this already happens in real life and I don't find it that funny, it's also stupid because it has nothing to do with the game, nothing to do with the whole fallout world, nothing. I don't mind losing some items when going there, because I know it's risky etc. But I mind, when I've been pulled out of fun (yes, this is for me more fun than killing people all day long) by someone who just came there to have his "lulz". It's ridiculous.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Lena on January 12, 2010, 03:27:41 pm
You are very wrong Lexx. From what I know, people just started building against the roleplayers because they got killed by the RP - PKs in Hub.
That is why I went there - to kill some russians which Izual was protecting and let them PK.

It's pathetic. Yes everything is logged in, even when there's rollback - wow, so if I didn't get killed, because of rollback - the admin is again without guilt.

It's like talking to God himself. Admins really are becoming childish now.

He didn't kill anyone, yes sure, that is why I uploaded screens of him doing it. But it will always be our fault, Gods of Roleplay are never wrong, every action we do will be interpreted as offensive and instant kill. You just have issues with yourselves and can't admit any wrong.

It has just started and the more people will get shot, the more players will be reporting it. Even those who are so much righteouss now, can get killed.

The last time I entered Hub, some gays were blasting people, I was by, took one of the items from the ground - they blasted me and explained to the admin they killed me for "looting". Like Izual would care... he and that other guy ray fyl or something, they kill because he lets them do it.

So, bombs are not allowed, looting items from the ground is not allowed any more. What else is not allowed for casual gamers?

Btw, look at the post of rejfyl - perfect exaple of trolling, he is doing it all day on polish forums. Admins of course don't care - guess why? (he is a friend of GM, who supports him on the forum by calling people "trolls") I don't see anyone removing his off-topic posts. Why? Hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Wire on January 12, 2010, 03:33:27 pm
Good day, Lena.
Lets start from the beginning.
Name all you chars, say what do you want. And give us screens please. Im really interested.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Surf on January 12, 2010, 03:37:40 pm
To be honest, I never saw a single person who claims to be a roleplayer killing another. Not one.
Besides those stupid "terrorist", there wasn't one person who got killed. So - from which crazy fever dreams are your accusations from?
Because it's getting more and more ridicolous.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Izual on January 12, 2010, 03:43:09 pm
Quote
Name all you chars, say what do you want. And give us screens please. Im really interested.
Would be a good beginning.
Also, Lena, watch your tongue, your paranoia towards russian may make some problems.

What to begin with ? We all know your post is a big lie, but... Yes, you uploaded once a screenshot with me shooting at you. I shot at you once, as a warning, because you were threatening me ;) I don't think you were killed, this day.
Secondly, for the "looters" thing, I'm not aware of it and not responsible of what say the players coming into Hub ;)


Quote
It's pathetic. Yes everything is logged in, even when there's rollback - wow, so if I didn't get killed, because of rollback - the admin is again without guilt.
Didn't understand this.

Quote
It has just started and the more people will get shot, the more players will be reporting it. Even those who are so much righteouss now, can get killed.
Hum... And you are certainly one of "the most righteous" ? Can we see those screenshots again ? Ah... Anyway, I saw only two people reporting supposed abuses in Hub. You - and Atom pointed out it was a bug, but why would you care, he's lying too ! - and AmneziaHaze, that also PM-harrassed me. Two players inventing facts and being totally wrong, even when the whole community is telling them they're wrong. And also two notorious polish board trolls. Now either you make up your mind, either you change your way of speaking here, because your false accusations are not so good.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: naskiel32 on January 12, 2010, 04:09:06 pm
I dont want be boring and people please dont start shout at me but  this general topic here was about makin Hub better roleplay and bomber free so can u Lena change place of discution becouse  this is NOT place about "Omg i think GMs hate me and one of them shot my sorry ass" topic?  thank you  ;D
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: StoneCrow on January 12, 2010, 04:38:40 pm
ummm back on topic.
i am against banning heavy weapons or that type of thing in the hub, i am also against introducing check for weapons or stuff like that

my idea where they "wake up" in the hub prison is as far as i am willing to go,
hell theyve lost all their stuff and they're stuck in prison for an hour...

...Since the hub is by description "a hub of scum gamblers and traders" i see no problem with scum coming and causing trouble
(like the yukuza tribal crap we had roll into the bar recently, was anyone else there? im sure if we had a strong vigilante group / faction they wouldve accepted the challenge to pvp)
after all this game is not a kids game and it is about the harsh realities of life after a huge world ending war,
life in this game is bound to be hard, and the wrong people will occaisionally die or survive. it is not realistic in such an environment to want to get together and roleplay without commitment to protecting this (without just running to admins everytime someone throws a spanner in the works)

The community in the hub, is the only place i know of trying to create a community environment ran by RPing PCs,
and because of that it is bound to become a target by any dumbass who is afraid that what he considers the norm of kill people all day, changing in some way
The Hub community will just have to stick together and remain strong through, and eventually we will be better players for it.

so no i dont support having more admin protection or more stuff like border guards and searches,
although making it possible to only enter the hub through the main entrance sounds good
and doing something using the hub prison, like my suggestion would be fair,
maybe the hub needs a faction of its own, the HubGuard or something, to challenge form Yukuza aggressors and the like.

on the subject of suicide bombers and their type,
if they were related to some church or movement with an ideal, i would not mind so much
but at the moment they are just a bunch of bad unwanted players
because after all, when this game is about surviving in the Post Apocaliptic wastes, how can blowing yourself into tiny peices be considered surviving
if anything these types of attacks are a form of griefing and exploiting, in other words they are not acheiving some objective based on ideals ect ect, they are just wasting serious players time,

ofcourse i have no idea yet about the best way to deal with them, other than to make it harder to get hold of suicide bomb making materials.

 ;D  ;D sorry about the long post,
in short it just says that any changes should be minor, or enhancements of systems already inplace.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Izual on January 12, 2010, 04:45:46 pm
Well, the jail thing would a good idea, but it's not possible at the moment. Also, you speak about "scum gamblers or traders", but in my opinion too they are welcome. I mean we've got roleplay chars in Hub (Most of them, in fact) that are criminals, drunkards, part of Hub Underground or jet dealers. The problem why that topic was posted is that some players come and insult roleplayers in a non-roleplay way, just to... Well... Just to make fun of them ? For the "lulz", I guess. When it comes to suicide bombing, it's beginning to be a serious problem.
To sum up, yeah, Hub's roleplayers are, as I understood, ready to welcome everyone as long as they roleplay well. But if you just want to annoy everyone and come to Falcon Maltese shouting... That's a problem. So we have to find a way to deal with this, and it's not the jail that would solve it =/
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: StoneCrow on January 12, 2010, 06:17:30 pm
Also, you speak about "scum gamblers or traders", but in my opinion too they are welcome.

i like the scum gamblers or traders

...Since the hub is by description "a hub of scum gamblers and traders" i see no problem with scum coming and causing trouble

lol i think what i meant got lost in the screen of text  ;D
what i meant was that i have no problem with these troublemakers, i actually like the challenge and it makes gameplay all the more interesting
its the suicide bombers and people who come just to disrupt and grief that are my problem.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Deon on January 12, 2010, 09:28:57 pm
Yes, I am ok with a man who can come, introduce himself in a right manner and call you to a backyard where he robs you. I am NOT ok with a man who cannot make a good sentence but starts to yell crazy insulting things for no reason.

You are very wrong Lexx. From what I know, people just started building against the roleplayers because they got killed by the RP - PKs in Hub.
This is the most hillarious thing I saw on these forums. Well, except for the "foking cow".

"RP-PK" is impossible. Roleplayer should make a story which brings to a duel or fight. And currently it's almost impossible to PK in Hub because of guards. The reason of this topic is how immature "rp pkers" are, who are not roleplayers at all. It's funny how you try to argue but tell the same as the topic starter. I'd suggest you to review your position in this question. Are you pro or cons?

Also, people have no problems with being killed in other towns for no reason, but "RP PKs in Hub" suddenly became a problem. How so?
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Arminius on January 12, 2010, 09:44:00 pm
Ignoring:
a)Unrelated and unjustified admin bashing
b)"WASTELEND IZ HARSH" posts

I can say that we have no defense against suicide killers because they use top weapons to kill themselves, undetected, and they just have a huge stash of said bombs back home. Is there a solution for this? Or should we just suffer the hatred and boredom of other players? I'm throwing suggestions here, so if you disagree with this you better not go WASTELAND IS HARSH and suggest something better.

The whole problem about dying in the Hub is that it's supposed to be a policed town, and that people are metagaming, killing with no chance of reprisal, by exploiting the sheer fact that the police can't jail dead offenders. Also these powergames exploit the lack of realistic AI in the Hub NPC's: these policemen can't record names, review, can't think people are suspicious. If it were an unguarded city, ok, they are meant to suffer such, but it's a guarded city! People try to find every hole in the NPC already deficient AI. That's metagaming, and it's breaching the project we're trying. I suggested everything I could think of in page 1. I'm not saying again.

This is a problem. maybe not the whole of the Hub should be protected, but honestly if any crook can come in and disrupt the scenario with a totally out-of-place suicide attack, which has NO reasonable explanation in the Wasteland ethos.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Lena on January 12, 2010, 10:52:00 pm
Citing, "We all know your post is a big lie, but... Yes, you uploaded once a screenshot with me shooting at you. I shot at you once, as a warning, because you were threatening me  I don't think you were killed, this day.
Secondly, for the "looters" thing, I'm not aware of it and not responsible of what say the players coming into Hub"

We all know YOUR post is a BIG lie... - I can write in the same style as you do. I see that talking with you is like talkig with a 5 year old kid.
You let some "roleplayers" kill people in hub, you give them equipement and say that you have no idea what is going on.

You shoot at me 3 times and were runing after me, now you made a big lie there. Warning shoot - oh it was 3 times ;D We were without weapons in hand even, because you said to hide them - we did. I hope the other admins will finally see your abuses.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Rejfyl on January 12, 2010, 10:59:43 pm
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The last time I entered Hub, some gays were blasting people, I was by, took one of the items from the ground - they blasted me and explained to the admin they killed me for "looting". Like Izual would care... he and that other guy ray fyl or something, they kill because he lets them do it.
Thats just a lie. I have nothing more to say. Post some screenshots of that sitiuation or stop accusing me.
edit: Im sorry. I get you wrong. I was thinking, that Lena is accusing me of killing her:)

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Btw, look at the post of rejfyl - perfect exaple of trolling, he is doing it all day on polish forums. Admins of course don't care - guess why? (he is a friend of GM, who supports him on the forum by calling people "trolls") I don't see anyone removing his off-topic posts. Why? Hypocrisy.
What do you mean by trolling? Im pretty sure you are calling me a troll because, i said same thing about player, who was defending you: AmneziaHaze. He was making flame war in every topic on polish board. It is very easy to check - just look in junk. There are a lot of his post full of insults and flames.  Now after he was banned he is still sending me pm full of rage:)

Think about what you are saying before you call someone a troll. Im not a friend of any GM. Im just participating in Hub RP project. And by roleplay i don't mean blowing up people with my alts.  

Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Deon on January 12, 2010, 11:03:29 pm
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Thats just a lie. I have nothing more to say. Post some screenshots of that sitiuation or stop accusing me.

It's a lie. It was me and another guy I've met (whom I don't know). Rej Fyl was killed by guards when he tried to shoot a man tagged "thief". We were waiting for him to return and guarded his loot. Then comes this guy in blue suit, we say him not to touch items because they belong to another player, he goes straight to them, grabs them and tries to retreat to the exit grid. The guy who was with me shot him and got shot by guards, and I've got Rej Fyl's gear (just your armor, guards looted other things) and returned it. Everything was fair, and you are not supposed to be respected if you're looting someone intentionally when you were told not to do so.

So, nobody was "allowed to kill", guards killed that guy.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Lena on January 12, 2010, 11:24:30 pm
You kill people in Hub, together in a group of three. Protecting your items when someone gets shot.

Since when it is not allowed to grab items from the ground?

It's just another poor explanation of your PK play.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Rejfyl on January 12, 2010, 11:31:29 pm
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You kill people in Hub, together in a group of three. Protecting your items when someone gets shot.
You are saying it like it was happening all the time. I was shooting at some thief. I though he was a thief cos there was a flag over his head. It was weird but guards started shooting at me after that, and i was killed. Next part of this story, you can find in Deon's post. So it was only one situation, and i was a victim of a bug:)
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: naskiel32 on January 12, 2010, 11:38:51 pm
Lena...sugar if my pal will die and u or other player will try grab his even worthless but hard earned shit from ground  i will start shot too to anyone who will try  ;) i think thatis normal reaction when someone try steal "protected" stuff  :P
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Arminius on January 12, 2010, 11:43:57 pm
I am NOT quoting anyone, but I'm gonna say it AGAIN: let's keep focused on the topic. Lena's posts are not pertinent to the betterment of the Roleplay Project in the Hub: she's derailing the thread and changing the topic, and thus her posts must be removed unless she comes up with something productive. Let us NOT feed the troll, mmkay?


Also, to reinforce my position, I extracted the Hub laws from the RP project here (http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Hub_roleplay_project#Hub_laws):
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Hub laws

These laws have been decided by the project leaders. They are additional laws to the normal guarded towns ones (do not steal/attack someone, or block the path). Police officers (players) have to make them effective... And it can be by killing the outlaw, or escorting him to the jail or out of the city.
    * No Big Guns/Energy Weapons (Small Energy Weapons are allowed) in your active hand, except for defending yourself. Showing up with a Minigun, a Light Support Weapon or a Laser Rifle is not a good idea this lawful city.
    * Selling or speaking of drugs publicly will make the police officers furious. Try to keep words to a whisper when talking about drugs, or you could be sent to the Hub's jail.
Already approved laws, and already disrespected. We must include new laws here, or scrape these two altogether under the grounds of "unable to comply with". We can't count on the goodwill of the entire playerbase, knowing some of the elements that pester it. I suggest adding to that list explosives and grenades, I suggest entrance checkpoints to reinforce such laws, and with the mainpower maintained by the Hub, it sure is realistic.

I suggest we increase this with my suggestions of the first post, and begin reinforcing the two above with automated features.

EDIT:  In my playthrough I've been noticing some significant improvings, and I thank the Devs for this. Let's keep a good watch on the project to see how it goes.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Lena on January 13, 2010, 01:53:34 am
Yes sure a bug. You shot a guy and me. You claim there was flagging, too bad it was not like that.

Anyone else shooting to people would get killed instantly by Deputy Prick, but not you.

Until someone records your actions by film, it is most likely the admins here will still play die hard believers, they just can't believe a GM may be doing anything wrong.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Tyler on January 13, 2010, 02:11:24 am
I dont understand this whole thread.Im sorry for anyone who suffers with the senseless bombers but RPing in the HUB doesnt make anyone special.If you want special gaurds then they should be in NCR and every other gaurded town.Fonline is very incomplete right now and i dont think it was meant to be played this way.Maybe its time to turn the gaurded towns into truly safe places meant for trade and role play.No more guns and no more bombs.Anyone who is truly intersted in PvP will just go to the northern towns instead of taking advantage of exploits in the gaurded towns.Lets face it folks,gaurds are meant to protect but more often than not they prevent you from killing the ones you know are about to kill you.Outlaw these tactics in all gaurded towns or leave it alone.the HUB isnt special,these issues apply to any "safe" town.As far as all this admin abuse bullshit is concerned,prove it because saying it over and over doesnt make it truth.I dont even understand why Izual even responds to any of it,your the GM so let them talk because you dont have to answer to any of them,and it only provokes them to post more shit.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Arminius on January 13, 2010, 02:27:54 am
I dont understand this whole thread.Im sorry for anyone who suffers with the senseless bombers but RPing in the HUB doesnt make anyone special.If you want special gaurds then they should be in NCR and every other gaurded town.Fonline is very incomplete right now and i dont think it was meant to be played this way.Maybe its time to turn the gaurded towns into truly safe places meant for trade and role play.No more guns and no more bombs.Anyone who is truly intersted in PvP will just go to the northern towns instead of taking advantage of exploits in the gaurded towns.Lets face it folks,gaurds are meant to protect but more often than not they prevent you from killing the ones you know are about to kill you.Outlaw these tactics in all gaurded towns or leave it alone.the HUB isnt special,these issues apply to any "safe" town.As far as all this admin abuse bullshit is concerned,prove it because saying it over and over doesnt make it truth.I dont even understand why Izual even responds to any of it,your the GM so let them talk because you dont have to answer to any of them,and it only provokes them to post more shit.

I hope I'm not going as far as telling the minds of the devs, but I believe that currently the Hub serves as a beta for the beta. Like a testing of all possible features RPing towns could entail. Of course, it must be tested in smaller amounts before, so we have a better control group and better feedback. What we're discussing here could affect the future of the whole of FOnline if it works in the Hub. As well as if it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Reconite on January 13, 2010, 02:49:01 am
Until someone records your actions by film, it is most likely the admins here will still play die hard believers, they just can't believe a GM may be doing anything wrong.
You may think you are correct.


But you're not.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: Deon on January 13, 2010, 08:18:13 am
It's much easier to make a faked video than to fake server logs. Lena sucks at reasoning :P.
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: naskiel32 on January 13, 2010, 08:21:06 am
again this here? lol peaple u have health
Title: Re: Hub Roleplay - Problems
Post by: RJ on January 13, 2010, 09:10:25 am
and it only provokes them to post more shit.

There are some rules on forums. Problem is that staff isn't really interested in forcing them. Certain players got mental issues and perhaps shouldn't be testing/playing this game.

@Tyler to whole post
Those changes that are currently made to security system in Hub might expand to other towns if they will actually work. At least I hope so because making Hub too safe city will bring not only RP'ers there.
One more thing: I bet you didn't notice that with every update devs were adding more and more guards to NCR/VC due to possible exploits and weren't interested in Hub at all.