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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Solar on June 06, 2010, 10:44:45 pm
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OK, after a discussion with a few of the gangs on IRC we have come up with a provisional list of things which would help TC become something more enjoyable.
1. In each Town Control City there will exist a pre-defined area which will act as "The Hill" in a King of the Hill style system.
2. To gain control of the city you must enter this area with a minimum of 5 people and remain there for the duration of the countdown, after talking to the town leader to begin the countdown (as is the case now). These people will require "good" gear, which will largely be level 2+ items with some extra inclusions and some exclusions.
3. People in sneak do not count towards this minimum.
4. If a countdown is currently running, preview is disabled for this town.
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This is epic.
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(...) 3. People in sneak do not count towards this minimum. (...)
As i said on IRC - don't forget about dead/"off" chars.
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Surf Solar dont like it but +1. Its really good idea
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i think its a very good idea, but i think after town is being successfully taken, it should become invulnerable for some time, like 1-5 hours so that it would be worth risking for those 5 or more people to stand in HILL and risk dying :> what you think about that ?
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This points are now discussed by almost all gangs which are interested in TC. I think that now, no changes needed.
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i think its a very good idea, but i think after town is being successfully taken, it should become invulnerable for some time, like 1-5 hours so that it would be worth risking for those 5 or more people to stand in HILL and risk dying :> what you think about that ?
No. If anything, increase the reward value. Slowing down the game is not a good idea.
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~NoSupport Not To seem Like a Dick, If its King of the Hill, You cant have heaps Strategic Positions for youre Troops.
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I'm eager to see this in game, although I would have prefered the town to be lost if there's no one on the "hill" anymore.
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~NoSupport Not To seem Like a Dick, If its King of the Hill, You cant have heaps Strategic Positions for youre Troops.
that depends on how big is "hill" ^^
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On one side you don't like artificial arenas such as CTF/Deadmatch but on the other hand you turn TC into king of the hill? I understand that FOnline lacks proper locations for PvP with objectives/rewards so towns will have to provide that for now, but still I think TC should be more about actual protection of the town and living/building/growing there rather than just place to beat the shit out of each other.
Well it seems its too soon to want something like that at this point.
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On one side you don't like artificial arenas such as CTF/Deadmatch but on the other hand you turn TC into king of the hill? I understand that FOnline lacks proper locations for PvP with objectives/rewards so towns will have to provide that for now, but still I think TC should be more about actual protection of the town and living/building/growing there rather than just place to beat the shit out of each other.
Well it seems its too soon to want something like that at this point.
It will help for actual town protection, and building growing of it, cause now gangs will only take town when they will be willing to fight not to run like now ^^ And gangs with plans like rogues with broken hill or vsb with redding, will have chance to defeat their enemies and continue to implement their plans for town instead of chasing weak gangs through various towns.
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And no more worldmap camping, that counts too.
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My point is its still "just" another way how to kill other players. But town itself has nothing out of it other than few dead NPCs per gang fight. Its actually pretty opposite to town protection, its more like town demolition.
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You're wrong Sius and vederas told you why.
Also about this part:
I'm eager to see this in game, although I would have prefered the town to be lost if there's no one on the "hill" anymore.
Yes, I thought about it and it seems logical, but it would need a different reward system (we're talking about "Faction guarding town" status being changed to "None" when there is no faction present in the town).
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Yeah, that would be needed.
Sius : You are right, the town control needs more than just "we killz people with weaponz", but as Solair said it is really too early for this. I think too that the first thing to do is to balance the fighting part. Only then we'll be able to talk properly about adjusting reward/other activities related to TC.
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Hi.
I think that's a good idea, but:
2. To gain control of the city you must enter this area with a minimum of 5 people and remain there for the duration of the countdown, after talking to the town leader to begin the countdown (as is the case now). These people will require "good" gear, which will largely be level 2+ items with some extra inclusions and some exclusions.
If one of this 5 players will die countdown is lost?
So maybe better will be when at least 5 players come to town leader (and will be registered) and 5 from all registered players have to be in town for all countdown. Remaining players can (but do not have to) wait on world map as reinforcements.
When countdown starts I will count entire town as "hill", if not, enemy always will know where you are.
Sorry for my english :(
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Hi.
I think that's a good idea, but:
If one of this 5 players will die countdown is lost?
So maybe better will be when at least 5 players come to town leader (and will be registered) and 5 from all registered players have to be in town for all countdown. Remaining players can (but do not have to) wait on world map as reinforcements.
When countdown starts I will count entire town as "hill", if not, enemy always will know where you are.
Sorry for my english :(
well for example gang could wait in gecko reactors end after talking to mayor and take town in this way :/
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Rewards and factors such as protecting NPCs/Whatever can come later when we actually have something which delivers action on a consistent basis, otherwise its just polishing a turd.
Discusion about where "The Hill" will be for each town will take place tonight, since these areas will be known by all participants there is no reason they can not be quite large areas - this will hopefully retain as much tactical flexibility as possible.
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Yes, I thought about it and it seems logical, but it would need a different reward system (we're talking about "Faction guarding town" status being changed to "None" when there is no faction present in the town).
factions cant stand in hill 24/7, i think if you successfully take town they should have control even if they leave, and if other gang fails on taking town (leaves hill/dies) town should stay controlled under the name of last faction that took town successfully, that could allow rewarding system stay similar, and factions to control multiple towns, cause if there would be "none" thing all biggest gangs would just take towns for themselves, as it would be hard to stand in hill of one town, and with remaining forces to assault another.
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well for example gang could wait in gecko reactors end after talking to mayor and take town in this way :/
For example other gang can start new countdown in this time. Someone have to check all the time town mayor.
What with this Solar:
If one of this 5 players will die countdown is lost?
So maybe better will be when at least 5 players come to town leader (and will be registered) and 5 from all registered players have to be in town for all countdown. Remaining players can (but do not have to) wait on world map as reinforcements.
Discusion about where "The Hill" will be for each town will take place tonight, since these areas will be known by all participants there is no reason they can not be quite large areas - this will hopefully retain as much tactical flexibility as possible.
That's good :)
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For example other gang can start new countdown in this time. Someone have to check all the time town mayor.
but it would be more or less same as world map camping... and this change is to make fights instead of that camping ^^
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What with this Solar:
I don't get what you mean.
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but it would be more or less same as world map camping... and this change is to make fights instead of that camping ^^
But when your goal is to defend 5 guys from being killed it will be really hard to take town in control.
Solar, I just wondered how to make equal chances for team trying to control town and team who disturbs. My point was to extend "hill" area for almost all city, and set numbers of registered players being all the time in city to 5. For example when 8 players are registered 3 can leave town and come back(and that 3 still is registered) . Only when number of registered players in town is less than 5 countdown will stop.
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Solar, I just wondered how to make equal chances for team trying to control town and team who disturbs
Why should there be equal chance ? For once, defenders could have some advantages.
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I'd really like to test such Town Control ;D
It will surely add some dynamism to the current one.
I've also made a TC suggestion which can be linked to yours.
Maybe you might have a look at it:
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=5531.0
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A couple of militia spawning after choosing the "I've brought a couple of guys with me(...)" line from the mayor and the actual countdown starting after these guys are dead might prevent 3-4x bluesuit pack running straight into town berserk-mode capping a city, talking bout the current TC.
Anyways, back to the new scheme, I like it very much, though being a Halo player, I'd love to see things such as "hill contested", so that another gang could hop in straight into the last two minutes and grab a capture over a town. More importantly, random placement of the hill so battles wouldn't be so monotonous, giving some advantages for certain classes in some spots, making others useful in a completely different hill.
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i think its a very good idea, but i think after town is being successfully taken, it should become invulnerable for some time, like 1-5 hours so that it would be worth risking for those 5 or more people to stand in HILL and risk dying :> what you think about that ?
I agree with this statement, towns should be locked out for a few hours after taking, so it will force others to do something when a gang takes over the city, rather than waiting for the best opportunity
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I agree with this statement, towns should be locked out for a few hours after taking, so it will force others to do something when a gang takes over the city, rather than waiting for the best opportunity
jup point of that would be to fight against gang when they are on the hill, not when they leave, then some of players go to do something, and they retake in lame way ^^ also if for example WEAK GANG X sees STRONG GANG Y that they are taking town, they can take town too, cause Y gang will have to stand on hill in one place to take town, and if they see town control being stopped and gang Y abandoned the town which they were taking, gang X can flee too. Im not saying that invulnerability should last long, but just some time, that the gang who successfully took town, could have time to take other times instead of constant defending and watching for their newly taken town not to be lost.
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Another random thing I think would help, make militia better. It would make taking the town harder and encourage people to protect a town. I read a post about a captain that spawns lower level militia, I thought that was a great idea. And maybe when the controlling faction talks to the mayor they could give their mercs different commands like defend non hostile players. Any way to encourage trading in unguarded towns. I like the idea of seeing faction A is in control of town B, faction A is known for keeping the city safe so you can bet its safe to go there a trade. Give % of profits to the controlling faction. This way cities like redding could have a few main factions that vie for control. Like in New Reno the Bishops and the Mordinos fight for control, in Redding it could be well known that the VSB and the West Necros are the main contesting families/factions.
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Another random thing I think would help, make militia better. It would make taking the town harder and encourage people to protect a town. I read a post about a captain that spawns lower level militia, I thought that was a great idea. And maybe when the controlling faction talks to the mayor they could give their mercs different commands like defend non hostile players. Any way to encourage trading in unguarded towns. I like the idea of seeing faction A is in control of town B, faction A is known for keeping the city safe so you can bet its safe to go there a trade. Give % of profits to the controlling faction. This way cities like redding could have a few main factions that vie for control. Like in New Reno the Bishops and the Mordinos fight for control, in Redding it could be well known that the VSB and the West Necros are the main contesting families/factions.
Dis :P.
Also I like the idea in a whole but this is slightly off. Say for example gangmembers are going to Hill but in that town they are killed by camping gangers making it impossible for this "King of the Hill" to really take place unless entire force is that at the very moment. For those who don't understand I'm 5 gangmembers can stay on hill and take it (e.g. 5 bluesuits) while rest of gang camps and rapes the rest that come near it from the spawn points in towns. Or is this the point?
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For those who don't understand I'm 5 gangmembers can stay on hill and take it (e.g. 5 bluesuits) while rest of gang camps and rapes the rest that come near it from the spawn points in towns. Or is this the point?
read whole post before commenting, there will be gear check, no blue suites :>
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read whole post before commenting, there will be gear check, no blue suites :>
Wel lets say they do that but the rest pf gang still camps and rapes any other gangers coming to try and join.
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Then they will have to get there before one of them dies, or they fail to take the town.
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With a better militia and the KOTH changes I think TC would go like this.
1. Gang shows up in town.
2. Gang goes to KOTH spot attacks militia guarding it.
3. Gang finishes off militia and takes losses, but if 5 or more are still around start the countdown, otherwise the gang has to wait for re-enforcments to start while militia might start to respawn, making it very hard to take a city.
4. While the countdown is going on gang defends hill from other gangs trying to stop them.
5. Gang finishes timer and takes control.
6. Gang installs militia throughout city(ie respawning captains) and helps defend town while militia builds up. Also I think choosing how militia will behave would be great (ie defend non hostiles/kill enemies of faction/... maybe even attack only members of faction x, y and z.
7. Gang can leave and come back every now and then to collect profits from trading or to defend when another gang trys to attack, safe knowing that it requires a major offensive to take the town.
*Another random thought, it might be possible to make militia charge mine tax (ie if a player doesn't put an ore or mineral in a container before they leave the mine the militia will kill them on the way out.) The ability to choose the laws in a town I think would make them feel a lot more alive.
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*Another random thought, it might be possible to make militia charge mine tax (ie if a player doesn't put an ore or mineral in a container before they leave the mine the militia will kill them on the way out.) The ability to choose the laws in a town I think would make them feel a lot more alive.
that would be fuckin bullshit, i can tell you how many taxes you could gather 0. All would go to gecko mine. Never mind that you put expensive resource for gang you are still easily fucked, since mines are on other sides of map from mayors both in bh and redding and pkers can still hunt you down. Gangs are powerful enough that they could leave 100% of resources for poor blue miners :/
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Yeah, I wasn't a fan of the tax thing either. Trying to give people a reason to leave bluesuits alone.
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If anything the gangs could always exto- I mean Tax you manually when you mine... a couple gangers at entrance and other possible entrances asking for half the ore each time :P.
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After testing:
- taking all cities at once in bluesuits - fixed
- camping on world map - partially fixed
- more dynamic than previous system
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Only partially ?
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Sure partially, not everyone stay inside, it would be suicide, so some reinforcement wait on WM-but at least some people are inside.
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Any solution ? The only one I see is to increase minimum fighters number, which is quite a bad solution. I guess even a minimum % of your faction members wouldn't be a good solution, as you can easily bypass this.
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if i understand right if people die who were in hill and faction doesnt have enough members on hill at that moment tc timer is cancelled, so i think its ok, cause way more then 5 needs to stay on hill for successful takeover.
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if i understand right if people die who were in hill and faction doesnt have enough members on hill at that moment tc timer is cancelled, so i think its ok, cause way more then 5 needs to stay on hill for successful takeover.
Correct. But the number varies between different towns.
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well, i think that camping popularity is proportional to "hills" size :> ( i dont know how it looks now so i maybe wrong in here), but if camping is still a problem maybe hill needs to be expanded a little ? :>
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Camping on map is not a real problem, camping on worldmap is.
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Camping on map is not a real problem, camping on worldmap is.
about world map camping i am talking about :>
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i sugest that you need 5 to start the countdown,but onli 1 member needs to stay in "the top of the hill",vuz if there more,can be ambushed on snipers,and other 2 to stay on the map,so need 3 to continue the countdown
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Well there is no serious problem with WM camping, as reinforcement are very likely to enter the map when squad taking TC gets attacked (else they would stay on WM totally without sense).
There is a problem with drug users and normal chars, as to take city you have to stay there for 25 minutes, which is longer than jet works.. so you risk getting caught on withdrawal.. yet you can't use normal chars because attackers can wipe you out easily with drug using chars. The solution is probably to create and use chars which would be something between normal chars and full drug users, I mean those who can be effective using 1 dose of every drug at all times. Still they won't be as effective as full drug users, so you have to get advantage from larger numbers of people in your team or using mercs
Also we haven't tested yet how using mercs will affect new TC and I've got a feeling that using the most expensive ones will affect it greatly.
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Well there is no serious problem with WM camping, as reinforcement are very likely to enter the map when squad taking TC gets attacked (else they would stay on WM totally without sense).
There is a problem with drug users and normal chars, as to take city you have to stay there for 25 minutes, which is longer than jet works.. so you risk getting caught on withdrawal.. yet you can't use normal chars because attackers can wipe you out easily with drug using chars. The solution is probably to create and use chars which would be something between normal chars and full drug users, I mean those who can be effective using 1 dose of every drug at all times. Still they won't be as effective as full drug users, so you have to get advantage from larger numbers of people in your team or using mercs
Also we haven't tested yet how using mercs will affect new TC and I've got a feeling that using the most expensive ones will affect it greatly.
25 minutes is too much, it should be 20 minutes like was before or even 15 :> Time should be long enough that gangs could gather up and attack someone if they see time takeover starts, and in 25 minutes each gang can die and back and do that like 3 times in one tc countdown, what i do not like :>
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I wrote this on irc but i'll repeat here: there seems to be a bug while taking city. The counter stops but city isn't taken, yet there is no possibility to buy militia (but there IS an option to buy them while chatting with TC leader - he responds with same message as if the counter was active) and also no possibility to try to take town again. Seems like the counter was still active and didn't end. We had such situation in Klamath and Den, it is possible that during the fight some of our gang members died and there was not enough of them in TC area, but the counter wasn't stopped.
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Defending is always harder than attacking, because of lack of informations, drugs cooldowns, ... .
So my little suggestion:
Defending team (during capturing) should have info about number of players entering the city.
So they will get random radio frequency and they will recieve info about numbers of players and entering location. I.e.: 3 pl + 2 npc Redding Mine.
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Defending is always harder than attacking, because of lack of informations, drugs cooldowns, ... .
So my little suggestion:
Defending team (during capturing) should have info about number of players entering the city.
So they will get random radio frequency and they will recieve info about numbers of players and entering location. I.e.: 3 pl + 2 npc Redding Mine.
Capturing is supposed to be harder than defending.
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Ok, i have something about combat area in Modoc. As you all know, Joe(city mayor) is now placed in General Store. But this place is bad for tactic, is near from one exit grid and etc.
So i have one suggestion. It will be better for tactic if Joe(taking city) will be in Maintance Centrum and Combat Area too(Arround MC). Its in center of town.
Btw, Chest with reward is in MC too.
What you think ?
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quick post, my proposal for enlarge TC zones
http://i47.tinypic.com/9az2oj.gif klamath
http://i49.tinypic.com/ej3i9.gif modoc
imho - bigger area - bigger fun
btw. guys , do you have maps of other cities ?
time to catch some sun on beach :o
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On the technical side, defined areas can be of any polygonal shape, not necessarily composed of rectangles, and not necessarily one per city. List of hexes defining the vertices (in a counter-clockwise order) would be appreciated, but pictures are sufficient too.
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I like this new TC system.
But I have question. What happens if 1 of 5 people who took town die but there is another person which is in same gang like person which died, so gang still have 5 members in town. Did counter stop or dead member will be replaced by member which is alive?
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The gang is allowed a total of 40 seconds time without passing the "valid captors" test (give or take few seconds depending on check cycle time) before countdown is stopped.
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When countdown is stopped due to lack of members, is it reset (less than ideal) or is it simply stopped where it is at until the faction once again meets the requirements (ideal)
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It is reset, but before this happens there are those 40 seconds.
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But its about only one man, or all 5 people can swap over with another 5 within 40 secs?
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Its just 5 memebers. People don't matter.
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i love this update, i wish i would be in big faction 8)
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On preview in BH we should hear Benny Hill song not Broken hill !