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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Nice_Boat on November 25, 2012, 03:58:35 pm

Title: Random development
Post by: Nice_Boat on November 25, 2012, 03:58:35 pm
The lack of brains behind those updates is both hilarious and terrifying. I mean, basically, what was the issue here? Why would changing the respawn timer have any impact on it? What would be the impact on other features? Just don't say that you asked yourselves these questions and that you know what you're doing, because if you did it'd be there since day 1. It's a basic feature, but you don't have a consistent vision of your game and just throw shit around hoping for the best. Christ, what you're doing isn't even development anymore. It's more like undevelopment - one step forward, two steps back.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Lexx on November 25, 2012, 04:27:15 pm
I will love the day when I am playing your perfect game. It probably will be the game to dwarf all games, because as you know everything, it just can't be less than perfect in all aspects.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Nice_Boat on November 25, 2012, 04:34:54 pm
I will love the day when I am playing your perfect game. It probably will be the game to dwarf all games, because as you know everything, it just can't be less than perfect in all aspects.

... and that's your excuse for turning a perfectly fine 6/10 mmo shooter into a 2/10 piece of garbage? : D

Oh, and there are many perfect or almost-perfect games out there, some of them are even free to play and indie, like Dwarf Fortress. Others have been so good that they actually went commercial, like Mount and Blade. But hey, they had a vision and they worked to achieve it. You clearly don't, and to be honest it's a shameful waste of resources and hard work.

Oh, and I created the vehicle armor penetration system for ArmA. You know, the one that's been around before the big realism mods did it. Never had a single piece of bad feedback, actually still receive some fan mail every three or four months.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Lexx on November 25, 2012, 04:37:29 pm
Yeah, I also made the mars red, because I thought green is a shitty color.

I am not working on the game since a long time, but good to know that it is still my fault. :)

Besides, I wrote *your game* and not games from someone else. Right now, you are nothing but a talker. Show something, then we can continue this silly non-discussion.

/Edit: Armor penetration system for ArmA. Cool. Because this is something where you can do a lot things wrong, with a lot people potentially rage at you. That must have been hard work.

I made a mod that adds lots of different armors to the first Stalker game. I never had a single piece of bad feedback and I also still get fan mails about it. Probably not as much as you, but still.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Nice_Boat on November 25, 2012, 04:42:29 pm
Yeah, I also made the mars red, because I thought green is a shitty color.

I am not working on the game since a long time, but good to know that it is still my fault. :)
Nobody cares about you Lexx. To the point people don't even know whether you work on something or not.

Besides, I wrote *your game* and not games from someone else. Right now, you are nothing but a talker. Show something, then we can continue this silly non-discussion.
Are you Black Isle? Are you cvet? Heh-heh.

/Edit: Armor penetration system for ArmA. Cool. Because this is something where you can do a lot things wrong, with a lot people potentially rage at you. That must have been hard work.
Actually yes, you can do an awful lot of things wrong when it comes to scripting. I mean all the bugs, man. Potentially gamebreaking. And no, talking smack about other people's work isn't going to make what you did any better.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Lexx on November 25, 2012, 04:44:07 pm
This was never about bugs. But I expected you to swift into that direction, though.

I don't know why I should be Black Isle or cvet.

Quote
Nobody cares about you Lexx. To the point people don't even know whether you work on something or not.

Then why do you point at me? Because you did.


I love this forum, so many question dodgers around here. This all just because I asked for explanation (which I still didn't got).
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Nice_Boat on November 25, 2012, 04:47:03 pm
Then why do you point at me? Because you did.
No, you just started acting passive-aggressive because I said that there's no coherent vision behind this server and that the last year or so of development effort actually made it less playable.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Lexx on November 25, 2012, 04:52:11 pm
And yet you pointed at me, saying I ruined a cool game.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Nice_Boat on November 25, 2012, 04:52:53 pm
And yet you pointed at me, saying I ruined a cool game.
English hard, eh?
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Lexx on November 25, 2012, 04:54:15 pm
Your question dodger skill increased again, btw.

But ok, you win. You are cool and full of knowledge, etc. etc. whatever. There just is no point in getting into a discussion with you.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Nice_Boat on November 25, 2012, 05:01:13 pm
Your question dodger skill increased again, btw.
There wasn't anything aside from assholish statements in your posts addressed to me, sorry. The hilarious part is you're trying to attack me in various ways completely ignoring the point I made, which was that the 2238 project is lacking any direction since it began and that's why all the updates are failing and all those people are angry. If you weren't such an arrogant, egocentric troll you could turn this sort of criticism into something constructive, but you're pushing for forum PvP instead. I consider this discussion concluded, if you want to boost your ego by writing silly stuff about me, my work or the community feel free to do so, but I'd suggest going to a shrink with the issues you seem to have instead.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Lexx on November 25, 2012, 05:04:02 pm
I am not trying to attack you in any kind of way other than that you are but a talker right now.

And your criticism is "60 seconds are perfect, everything else is bad, because" yeah, that's what one can work with. I asked for a detailed explanations to that, because I had nothing to do with the change and related stuff and I can't see why exactly 20 seconds or 120 seconds would be bad, but 60 seconds not, and all I got was nonsense and "it is your fault." Great. Really helpful.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Nice_Boat on November 25, 2012, 05:07:44 pm
I am not trying to attack you in any kind of way other than that you are but a talker right now.

And your criticism is "60 seconds are perfect, everything else is bad, because" yeah, that's what one can work with. I asked for a detailed explanations to that, because I had nothing to do with the change and related stuff, and all I got was nonsense and "it is your fault." Great. Really helpful.
I'm beginning to think that you might have a slight problem with reading comprehension, because I didn't even say that 60 seconds is good or bad, I just said that this update was SO RANDUM xD.

Oh, and yeah, I'm the talker. Where's your Cathedral Lexx? Because mine is sitting there on 2155 closed beta, waiting to be populated by the NPCs I write.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Lexx on November 25, 2012, 05:11:17 pm
I am sorry that I confused you with Kilgore, who said that 60 seconds are perfect. Often you two are pretty much the same to me and as I have avatars and signatures disabled, I am not looking at fancy pictures.


My Cathedral - by the way - was put on halt years ago. I had the idea, but never said that I will finish it (I am not good with graphics anyway, never was). In fact, someone else offered help in finishing it, but then wanished with doing nothing but taking my motivation to work on it (due to his great graphics, which mine couldn't hold up with). Also I am not housing with my Cathedral. Up until now I even totally forgot about it. So bringing this up as an argument for me being a talker is quite low.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: DocAN. on November 25, 2012, 05:21:58 pm
Going for another POPCORN
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Mike Crosser on November 25, 2012, 06:16:59 pm
Nice_Boat isn't Lexx just asking you what you want to be included in the updates?

And Lexx,NB is just pointing out that the latest updates weren't too focused on specific aspects of the game.That's why he said that the updates were "SO RANDUM xD".
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: JovankaB on November 25, 2012, 06:38:56 pm
Nice_Boat isn't Lexx just asking you what you want to be included in the updates?

And Lexx,NB is just pointing out that the latest updates weren't too focused on specific aspects of the game.That's why he said that the updates were "SO RANDUM xD".

I think it was focused on making game more playable and less bug-ridden.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Mike Crosser on November 25, 2012, 07:12:29 pm
What I meant was that the updates all tried to balance PvP,RP,PVE,etc. without focusing too much on each.
The bug fixes served their purpose I was talking about feature implementation.   
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: foonlinecurious on November 25, 2012, 07:37:39 pm

Oh, and yeah, I'm the talker. Where's your Cathedral Lexx? Because mine is sitting there on 2155 closed beta, waiting to be populated by the NPCs I write.

BTW when is 2155 going back online? that shit was not advertised, I was waiting, twiddling my thumbs waiting for the damn server to go live, and next thing I hear on the forum is that its offline because no one joined.  So give it another shot ^^
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Nice_Boat on November 25, 2012, 07:41:35 pm
Nice_Boat isn't Lexx just asking you what you want to be included in the updates?
But he shouldn't be asking me, you or anyone else. It should be in the friggin' design docs. It's like starting to build a house without an architect drawing a plan - it's random people placing random bricks all over the place. Obviously as a result the construction is going to look extremely silly and collapse sooner rather than later. And it's not only the issue of respawn timer, how many times have BG been buffed and nerfed? How about SG? Why are there updates that introduce features that are later removed? Why do balance changes cancel each other out? Why every season there's basically a different economy instead of a constant effort to make one model work? Why are perks and armors completely overhauled after 2 years of balancing the old mechanics? It's so effin' amateurish it hurts, and then suddenly a Lexx appears and starts spouting bullshit how he's the only honest, hard working human being in the entire universe and perhaps beyond and how any projects he has taken part in are beyond the criticism of dirty peasants who haven't got such herculean achievements under their belt. And when I point out that I've started a project that had the same goal as one of his failures and actually pulled it off so perhaps he should get off his high horse, suddenly I'm not playing fair and what I say is low. Seriously, what a joke.

And no, extremely broad statements like "to make the game more playable" are not valid development goals. The extremely sad thing is that every single 2238 dev has put in a tremendous amount of work, but it's basically wasted due to arrogance and make-do mentality. This project could be salvaged and polished in a matter of months, but that is not going to happen because the devs don't even know what they want. Nobody's going to answer that for them. Hell, a year ago you could read how they want to make this game work as a shooter, a roleplaying game and a survival game. With alts. The only way such a statement could become more hilarious would be if they added that 2238 would also be capable of giving blowjobs, handing out free vodka and playing guitar.

BTW when is 2155 going back online? that shit was not advertised, I was waiting, twiddling my thumbs waiting for the damn server to go live, and next thing I hear on the forum is that its offline because no one joined.  So give it another shot ^^
It's being worked on, but the only answer I can offer is that the release date is "it's done when it's done," sorry.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: JovankaB on November 25, 2012, 08:20:23 pm
Everything looks pretty on paper until you put it into a real test, especially when it's multiplayer
game. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that 2238 development isn't executing some
clear, detailed plan written 3+ years ago. Still, some people like this game for what it is and I think
there is a few core characteristics that define 2238 that should never change.

I wish you luck with your game.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: T-888 on November 26, 2012, 10:54:48 am
Don't need a detailed plan, but just common sense and some order. Just an example, we are playing with broken features for a very long time while some of you develop new ones, it's known habit for you and when the game is full of them half-finished, rushed, not fully working features, anything new seems to be random, even if it is good. Wipe comes and good stuff what was working goes to shit, just like current re-spawn timer witch was fine, but no ... you must change something.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Shangalar on November 26, 2012, 01:35:58 pm
Amen Nice Boat, one more time. When I come to think about it, it's even crazy that the game survived so long in such conditions. I'm really happy it did, and I'm sure we're getting close of having new FOnline projects that will try to fix 2238's issues. Hoping that this will boost 2238's staff or have any other welcome consequence on this agonizing dinosaur.

When you show this game to some friend, do you tell him it's pvp oriented, or as me, "It's pvp oriented as a matter of fact but officially, we don't know." ? xD
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: chocolate_chip_cookies on November 26, 2012, 01:47:01 pm
I'm embarrassed to show 2238 to any friend. They all quit after a day
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Mike Crosser on November 26, 2012, 08:57:24 pm
Every time I try to tell my friend about this game I run out of things to tell the would appeal to them (people who grown up playing fast paced FPS and TPS games) I get stuck after saying : "It's in a post apocalyptic wasteland"
Also I once got to:"You can have a tent"
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: DeputyDope on November 26, 2012, 10:36:18 pm
I'm embarrassed to show 2238 to any friend. They all quit after a day

find new friends.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Senocular on November 26, 2012, 10:57:33 pm
2009 - 500 players on a server everyday
2012 - roughly 30 players if you are lucky

What went wrong 2238?
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: brad smalls on November 26, 2012, 11:18:01 pm
2009 - 500 players on a server everyday
2012 - roughly 30 players if you are lucky

What went wrong 2238?

wrong more like 140 and it was never 500 players back then it was 200-300

just add a timer god

Everything looks pretty on paper until you put it into a real test, especially when it's multiplayer
game. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that 2238 development isn't executing some
clear, detailed plan written 3+ years ago. Still, some people like this game for what it is and I think
there is a few core characteristics that define 2238 that should never change.

I wish you luck with your game.

too Russians who play TLA and Requiem 2238's core features are TC no power armour and relogg timer... so you did change it Jovanka
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: vedaras on November 26, 2012, 11:52:59 pm
Well, first of all, we should be thankful for devs that they are working at the game and they really do give best of them for it, when all we do is complain about everything, but on the other hand players also can be understood. This session player drop from beginning was quite fast, and reasons for that were told, most of players didint like blueprint system, new town control system and maybe some other "serious" issues. But most of people only stopped playing fonline, they didint stop caring for it and they never will, so it is disappointing for them, when they expect one day to see a fix or an improvement to these "serious" issues and all they see "new item empty bottle, but you cannot do anything with it" :) I dont know if i am right, but i think if players could read something in fonline blog for example, that new blueprint system is being tested or an alternative to it is being made, here are some screens, they would be much more happy than seeing many good updates, but which hasnt got much influence on gameplay quality itself. So keep up the good work devs, and lets wait for the results fonliners  8)
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Wipe on November 27, 2012, 12:55:12 am
"new item empty bottle, but you cannot do anything with it"

That's a horrible lie, you can fill it with water :'(
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: falloutdude on November 27, 2012, 02:51:43 am
That's a horrible lie, you can fill it with water :'(
water has no purpose besides feeding moo moo.
Make it throwable and able to do 3-10 damge. this way people will atleast troll with it.  :D
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Wipe on November 27, 2012, 03:56:23 am
water has no purpose

Yea, that's sad.


Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Mr Feltzer on November 27, 2012, 08:29:00 am
That's a horrible lie, you can fill it with water :'(

I Lol'd

---

And On topic. I dont think you players appreciate the work the 2238 Devs put into this game, they dont get payed, they do lots of hard work and Its not easy to please the entire community.

I will admit the 2238 devs have REALLY fucked some shit, but its still free and fan made.
(http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/784292.jpg)
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: JovankaB on November 27, 2012, 01:19:36 pm
2009 - 500 players on a server everyday
2012 - roughly 30 players if you are lucky

What went wrong 2238?

You compare something like peak hours from weekends with early morning hours from mid-week.
You are either a fucking moron or a liar. Or both. Im fucking sick of amount of idiocy on ths board
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Shangalar on November 27, 2012, 01:35:08 pm
The values are exaggerated but roughly this is not so far from the truth.

Afair, the server was populated by numbers close to 500 at the very beginning (just after the initial lagging period). Not everyday, but quite often. I don't remember the maximum peak, but I would bet it was more than 500. Nowadays, you have two possibilities : <70, when there is no TC ; 140, up to almost 200 yesterday when TC fights occur (maybe a sign that the game is getting better, it's been a long time since you reached 200. Or just apes leveling moar puppets -_-;).
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: JovankaB on November 27, 2012, 02:06:03 pm
The values are exaggerated but roughly this is not so far from the truth.

The numbers are far from truth. Server is roughly 3x less popular, even if you take alts into consideration, which is a lot, but nothing near 17x less "if you get lucky" like he wrote. I also heard other bullshits from forum morons, like "servur dead 90% are alts". Contrary to forum morons I actually did some research about it and real nuber is from 15% to 30% in extreme situations, usually around 20%-25% (not saying that it's a small number).

If you think 3x and 17x are close to each other then you need to go back to math school.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Tomowolf on November 27, 2012, 03:35:16 pm
Yea, that's sad.

  • perm buff: current hp
  • crafting: beer
    • buff: normal resistance
    • buff: charisma
      • npc trading
    • car fuel
  • crafting: nuka-cola
    • buff: agility
  • car fuel
Who does craft nuka cola or beer, b please, there is more sense crafting sharpened poles than those. :P
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Wipe on November 27, 2012, 04:32:44 pm
It was answer about possibility, not will.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Knife_cz on November 27, 2012, 04:52:59 pm
Wait.
Why was Power Armor removed in the first place?
Re-add it :D?
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Mayck on November 27, 2012, 04:54:32 pm
There never was a Power Armor...
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Kilgore on November 27, 2012, 05:01:31 pm
There was, in my tent, with a 100/100 PA helmet, but jovanka raped the tent and stole it  :'(
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Roachor on November 27, 2012, 05:08:36 pm
There was, in my tent, with a 100/100 PA helmet, but jovanka raped the tent and stole it  :'(

if you make a circle of xander roots around the tent gms cannot cross the barrier unless you invite them in
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Kilgore on November 27, 2012, 05:13:29 pm
Btw funny thing:
Just a word of advice: Never bring them to your base or tent.
I never invited/brought her there, but she raped it anyway.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Roachor on November 27, 2012, 05:45:54 pm
Btw funny thing:I never invited/brought her there, but she raped it anyway.

she means keep it on a char, I'm assuming gms can just search the lists of items in tents easier than individual char inventories.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Boomshire on November 27, 2012, 08:11:39 pm
After reading 3 threads of nothing but cry babying and complaing I well say this. The developers do a great job they add great new features that are new, fresh and entertaining which make the game that much more interesting. They are trying to give us something new, we wanted a new session so badly wanted a wipe so bad last year so here it is, game is better than ever if you ask me, and gets better with each update. If you don't like it GTFO and stop crying.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Kilgore on November 27, 2012, 08:16:36 pm
she means keep it on a char, I'm assuming gms can just search the lists of items in tents easier than individual char inventories.
You are absolutely right, I was very foolish to store power armor, gauss rifle and g11 in a container, not on another alt  :'(
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Mayck on November 27, 2012, 08:19:29 pm
You are absolutely right, I was very foolish to store power armor, gauss rifle and g11 in a container, not on another alt  :'(
You would be foolish if you would think those items would be safe from Jovanka there...
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Kilgore on November 27, 2012, 08:20:40 pm
I would keep them in my hands, that thieving snake couldn't just steal them from me!
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Wipe on November 27, 2012, 08:43:36 pm
I would keep them in my hands, that thieving snake couldn't just steal them from me!

You know engine good enough to know that it's not a problem to get Items from offline chars :)
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Y0ssarian on November 28, 2012, 03:52:23 am
The lack of brains behind those updates is both hilarious and terrifying. I mean, basically, what was the issue here? Why would changing the respawn timer have any impact on it? What would be the impact on other features? Just don't say that you asked yourselves these questions and that you know what you're doing, because if you did it'd be there since day 1. It's a basic feature, but you don't have a consistent vision of your game and just throw shit around hoping for the best. Christ, what you're doing isn't even development anymore. It's more like undevelopment - one step forward, two steps back.

In the real world you can't always be looking for a fast answer to a problem that will be 100% correct and all would come to a happy-go-lucky conclusion. You're in the wrong place for that.

also lol
2012
complaining about free game
oh my sides  ::)
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: JovankaB on November 28, 2012, 01:47:11 pm
There was, in my tent, with a 100/100 PA helmet, but jovanka raped the tent and stole it  :'(

Actually these items were mine not yours (spawned on some event months ago,
they were never supposed to be outside, I guess someone stole them).

I found them by accident when checking items I spawned.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Black Widow on November 28, 2012, 02:26:43 pm
how u can steal something iu gave it? ;D
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Trokanis on November 28, 2012, 03:59:12 pm
So really are we just gonna continue complaining about things they fixed and are already done, or perhaps turn our attention to things that have yet to be fixed?  Spear wielding Tribals still lock up, 88's with spears lock up, (the first has been going on for 2 wipes now).  Repair is all but useless, it's less time consuming and more cost effective to just throw away an item that is low on dur then repair it, cause even with high repair and perks there's no way to be sure you'll keep the max dur and you still lose an item in the process.  Gathering is still kind of a joke even with the average 30-50 people on at night both JT and NCR mines are still saying the tried and true, "The Resources have been Depleted."  Travelers still can't do a damn thing with their helms.

The dev's are trying I know they are, and of course it's in their free time, but at least they're not really breaking things while they're fixing things, mostly.  So maybe if we could get a little more focus on what needs to be done instead of what has been done, the dev's might make an update that people will bitch much less about.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Kilgore on November 28, 2012, 04:00:46 pm
Actually these items were mine not yours (spawned on some event months ago,
they were never supposed to be outside, I guess someone stole them).

I found them by accident when checking items I spawned.
My tent is my kingdom and what's inside is mine, you awful thief.

Next time I'll put Holy BBS Spear next to it to protect my belongings from such little disgusting vultures as you, jovanka.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Roachor on November 28, 2012, 05:57:02 pm
(http://i50.tinypic.com/18myye.jpg)
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: vinio on November 28, 2012, 06:34:30 pm
My tent is my kingdom and what's inside is mine, you awful thief.

Next time I'll put Holy BBS Spear next to it to protect my belongings from such little disgusting vultures as you, jovanka.

im afraid kilgore that will not be enouph.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Horatio on November 28, 2012, 07:31:33 pm
Actually these items were mine not yours (spawned on some event months ago,
they were never supposed to be outside, I guess someone stole them).

How can one steal something you can spawn en masse with a click? Besides, such rare items would never leave safe places, so nobody would even see them.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Lexx on November 28, 2012, 08:47:13 pm
It wasn't meaned to be taken from the event map, so it got deleted later. Not much more to say about that. Wasn't the first time either.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Jenova on November 28, 2012, 09:01:54 pm
Hey, yo, wait right up.

Fallout is made by gamers for gamers.
FOnline is made by gamers for (these) gamers. FOnline isn't just for a simple person, so 2238 isn't.

You can play 2238 if you want, and if you do not like it, do not play it. Instead, steal server files and make your own, better FOnline. I'd like to see that.
Creating an new FOnline is much harder than most of you think. Just look at 2238, 2155, DE, FOT, MOBA, Australia (lol)...
Seriously, nobody likes this game, but we all still play it, or at least most of us.

Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Trokanis on November 29, 2012, 02:13:26 pm
So we are gonna just ignore what needs to be done in game and focus on the what has already been done.  Good strategy.  Well some people out there are still hoping for fixes, sorry devs that people can't seem to do anything but focus on what you've tried.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Senocular on November 30, 2012, 09:37:37 am
The numbers are far from truth. Server is roughly 3x less popular, even if you take alts into consideration, which is a lot, but nothing near 17x less "if you get lucky" like he wrote. I also heard other bullshits from forum morons, like "servur dead 90% are alts". Contrary to forum morons I actually did some research about it and real nuber is from 15% to 30% in extreme situations, usually around 20%-25% (not saying that it's a small number).

If you think 3x and 17x are close to each other then you need to go back to math school.
I'm glad we both agreed that 2238 was going downhill from the very beginning, whataver was the rate of it. :)
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Ox-Skull on November 30, 2012, 10:24:28 am
Considering it used to be called Factions mod, it would have been cool if they focused on fleshing out the various factions as well as adding factions like the SHI or modoc farmers, with a structure like what was started with BOS.

What do the PVP/TC'ers think of random element of raider attack during TC, just some basic lowly raiders trying to score some loot from the ensuing battle. Its guaranteed they'll be wasted, but mid combat they could be a surpise.
Or a faction like the SHI, NPC factions vying for control as well.

Many cool ideas, just none implented/finished. a shame really. :(


Title: Re: Random development
Post by: T-888 on November 30, 2012, 11:41:01 am
What do the PVP/TC'ers think of random element of raider attack during TC, just some basic lowly raiders trying to score some loot from the ensuing battle. Its guaranteed they'll be wasted, but mid combat they could be a surpise.

This has been already discussed and denied. Factions already use mercenaries, slaves in TC and there are enough random players who try to score some loot from on-going battles while everyone else is distracted. What you are suggesting is already working in practice in way or two, sometimes smaller factions try to engage larger forces opposing each other, thus they can be defined as the raiders you are talking about, players who don't and shouldn't be replaced by npc's.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Levin on November 30, 2012, 12:16:00 pm
...random element of raider attack during TC, just some basic lowly raiders trying to score some loot from the ensuing battle.

What you are suggesting is already working in practice in way or two, sometimes smaller factions try to engage larger forces opposing each other, thus they can be defined as the raiders you are talking about, players who don't and shouldn't be replaced by npc's.

Yeah! There is no point to replace The Hawks(they are great as low level raiders) but the other hand, NPCs won't whine on forum board every time they lose. I have to think about it, wait ::)

*thinking*

...ok, replace The Hawks!
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: T-888 on November 30, 2012, 02:15:26 pm
Here's the thing, all of us have taken the same role at some point of playing this game, it's a matter of being aware of it. The word Raiders can be and is used in this context as the correct post-apocalyptic term witch defines the in game action of those players who don't directly engage, but involves as third party or fourth, and it doesn't matter why or who does it. Just the fact that it happens is enough to understand that there shouldn't be any extra features simulating that what is already there, don't need to fix what is already working fine and etc. etc.

Pointing fingers to a particular faction is utterly useless concerning this subject, actually it is useless about every subject. Players adapt to the game, if something is wrong and isn't working as intended, it's rarely the players fault unless it is something suggested by the players, but in most cases probably bad judgement behind about and or non-existent development. Sometimes things look good on paper, but just doesn't apply good in practice, just a matter of testing. Good example is militia, the first idea of TC was that the players were meant to be the militia, see how well that applied in practice.

Well it didn't, now by your logic, you'd point fingers at players, right? How can they not be militia? How can Hawks not be better and gather more players to play properly because it wasn't meant to be played like that?

Nevermind, i am just messing with you. I was bored. Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: vinio on November 30, 2012, 02:39:20 pm
Yeah! There is no point to replace The Hawks(they are great as low level raiders) but the other hand, NPCs won't whine on forum board every time they lose. I have to think about it, wait ::)

*thinking*

...ok, replace The Hawks!

Noooooo.Npc factions  are harder to kill ;D
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: avv on November 30, 2012, 07:04:04 pm
Good example is militia, the first idea of TC was that the players were meant to be the militia, see how well that applied in practice

The thing with players acting as militia failed because it was expected players would defend town visitors out of their goodwill. But expectation doesn't equal encouragement.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Mike Crosser on November 30, 2012, 09:00:21 pm
The thing with players acting as militia failed because it was expected players would defend town visitors out of their goodwill. But expectation doesn't equal encouragement.
Well this isn't exactly the first time that player actions in MMOs are different to those that the developers thought of.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: P0kerFace on December 01, 2012, 04:26:18 am
Yeah! There is no point to replace The Hawks(they are great as low level raiders) but the other hand, NPCs won't whine on forum board every time they lose. I have to think about it, wait ::)

*thinking*

...ok, replace The Hawks!

What does the hawks have to do with random development ideas that they implament?



Well this isn't exactly the first time that player actions in MMOs are different to those that the developers thought of.

How are we suppose to act in 2238 as players then? Not sure exactly how they itended us to play in this one... It seems you have to do stupid things like figure out ways to abuse dual log to get anything of value. And if you try to play like a normal MMO game where you rally up people to go farm and hunt for the top stuff you still die because encounters are 5 times bigger. So you wonder why people figure out stupid abuses to farm and obtain their gear instead of  "how we suppose to play"

Then the developer comes along fixes something abusable, then the forum explodes with a bunch of posts like a room full of new born babies. Or they don't fix anything at all and just keep adding random idea after random idea, changing this fixed that, time to make a new build every update because something was changed or nerfed.

Then the PvP community is so full of "try hards" that they well figure out ways to annoy eachother with abuses as well.

Whats a try hard you ask?
Try-hard    
Try-hard is an adjective used to describe an individual who:
1) will try very hard to be good at something or fit in and eventually fails.
2) in videogames (such as Call of Duty or Halo) tries so hard to be good they end up losing sight of just having fun. This individual can become aggressive with other players if they are in a losing situation. In this sense the term can be used to describe players who are being relatively successful.

Yup thats you folks.


Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Trokanis on December 01, 2012, 12:25:21 pm
What does the hawks have to do with random development ideas that they implament?





The same thing with ignoring the stuff that still has to be implemented or fixed in game, (NOTHING) This is just yet another thread that has gone woefully off topic and the people that read it either refuse to bring it back to anything meaningful or ignore it all together.  There is so much stuff in game that needs to be fixed, and so much that has yet to be added, but it seems this place has devolved into some primal need to gripe bitch and moan about things already done, rather than try to work out what NEEDS to be done.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: avv on December 01, 2012, 01:36:39 pm
Whats a try hard you ask?
Try-hard    
Try-hard is an adjective used to describe an individual who:
1) will try very hard to be good at something or fit in and eventually fails.
2) in videogames (such as Call of Duty or Halo) tries so hard to be good they end up losing sight of just having fun. This individual can become aggressive with other players if they are in a losing situation. In this sense the term can be used to describe players who are being relatively successful.

Yup thats you folks.

Nothing wrong trying to do things properly. Besides as testers we players should exactly try to take everything to the limit, how else can we know the game?
However abusing everything and being silent about it is the issue. A tryhard might think that if he's doing fine, the game is fine.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Brujah on December 03, 2012, 01:28:54 am
What do the PVP/TC'ers think of random element of raider attack during TC, just some basic lowly raiders trying to score some loot from the ensuing battle. Its guaranteed they'll be wasted, but mid combat they could be a surpise.
Or a faction like the SHI, NPC factions vying for control as well.

Factions are busy enough killing random bluesuits and sneaks interfering with fight, plus we alredy have the town's NPCs bothering us constantly so I don't think it would be a good idea.



The thing with players acting as militia failed because it was expected players would defend town visitors out of their goodwill. But expectation doesn't equal encouragement.


A large team inside an unguarded town only baits TC, plus no one wants to idle inside a city all day.


I would encourage militia system if large factions could build their own small (and only), defendable/attackable cities, other than that, militia in canon towns make the place look ugly.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Mike Crosser on December 03, 2012, 12:20:44 pm
no one wants to idle inside a city all day.

Ever heard of NCR?
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: avv on December 03, 2012, 07:04:16 pm
Ever heard of NCR?

Ever tried idling in Reno?
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: davrot on December 03, 2012, 07:08:29 pm
Ever tried idling in Reno?
I did. Saw a couple of bg'ers shitting their pants when some bluesuit rolled in.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Mike Crosser on December 04, 2012, 10:19:42 am
Ever tried idling in Reno?
I did,but it's not as fun as idling in ncr,no one there.
Title: Re: Random development
Post by: Trokanis on December 04, 2012, 05:01:58 pm
Yup still ignoring the things that need to be done in game, while arguing over non-points for whatever your reasons are.  Oh BTW some of us actually want this game to succeed.  Just a thought.