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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Roachor on March 07, 2010, 07:50:04 pm
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Currently you have 2 options, you can make a crafter alt and level quickly with the option to do some mild pve or you can make a compat char for pve/pvp. Since you can't do both you end up with tons of alts cluttering the game. An easy way to fix this is to lower the prerequises to levels that are achievable with combat characters.
For example to make grenades you need high PE, which is shitty because the lower your pe the closer and more grouped together enemies are and you have to invest points into traps which does absolutely nothing and takes away from vital skills.
For armourer you need repair tagged, a useless skill for combat characters and sacrificing either outdoors or FA is never an option so once again crafter alt.
Same with energy weapon, big guns, small guns, all require tagging useless skills for combat.
If it was possible to reach those percentages without tagging them or having high int (another thing that precludes a good combat char) you could have a big gunner(or whatever) that maintains and creates his own weapons and ammo. Trading isn't a viable solution because crafters are only good for crafting and vice versa, even after selling your stuff you'll relog a different char to be able to play the game. Other problems are the 180-200% minimum to repair to not destroy whatever you're trying to repair. That's a huge skill investment just to get positive results. It should be like FA where you repair a % based on your skill. Imagine if unless you had 200 fa you hurt yourself when you tried to heal, it would be ridiculous.
The dev line about character not being "godlike" is off the mark because of the characters are starved for points with gifted being taken out so you have to min/max just to be effective. Making a balanced character just doesn't work because you'll never be able to compete with pvp builds on any level.
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i agrred with rachoar , i tried to build a JOat character wich have 2 LVL armorer and 1 LVL biggun, it make me mad , waste alot of skillpoint into science to craft alloy only:(. another char, energy eapon use must have 80 % repair to collect e part >"<. damit, it s so hard for single player ,with out alt or some friend to craft his own weapon and ammo, armor to self defend.please make the crafting less hard for people can do it by themself, i want to roleplay, play in pure wasteland.
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I agree that requirements could be lowered slightly, but only for first 2 levels of any profession. 3rd should stay the same. A PvP char capable of standing his own with powerbuilds that at the same time can craft top-level items is silly.
I have a level 8 character built to balance crafting and PvE and am not noticing any problems. With 3 CH and 35 barter I can even get 600 caps from the trader in Raiders' base for a scoped hunting rifle, which is a very good price.
Being as good as characters who devoted every last skillpoint, perk, and SPECIAL point to be a PvP machine is impossible exactly because they requested it. PvP carebears don't want to die from laser pistols so they asked the devs to nerf weapons and now only uber powerbuilds can compete.
Want to play the game? Don't do PvP and it'll be enjoyable even with a crappy build.
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no, requirements are fine. Everyone will have same alts since you can have 3 levels of professions, no matter what requirements will be. And roachor seriously get some balls, all your suggestions are just to make the game be played on easy mode.
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I disagree, requirements are fine. The problem is people plays many chars, not that the requirements are too high. When developers will lower professions requirements, for a month someone will say that everyone should have 10 PE, 10 IN and 7 ST, couse he want to have biggunner, sniper and crafter in one char. That is bad argument, I think.
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yeah. leave things as they are. whatever. Enjoy your fallout where 80% of the server will have their powerbuild + crafting alt to supply it with PK gear. Go on bomb this suggestion- i'm pretty sure that everyone who don't want this change to happen is using alts themselfs.
But actually it's a really good suggestion. Once PvP builds will be able to craft PK suitable equipement without need to drasticly lower their fighting skills, we shall have less alts in use, and maybe more actual roleplaying.
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The problem is alts. Because with alst, people don't interact between themselfs. They have their powerbuilds and some alts to support them.
I would bring there classic registration and 1 account per person/1 char on character.
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The problem is alts. Because with alst, people don't interact between themselfs. They have their powerbuilds and some alts to support them.
I would bring there classic registration and 1 account per person/1 char on character.
Relog time 1 hour please!!!11
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Relog time 1 hour please!!!11
totally agree(if by relog you mean: logging a diffrent character :P)
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if by relog you mean: logging a diffrent character :P
Yeah, what else?
And of couse lower prerequisites for professions then.
OR
Remove 3-leveled limit per character. So you can craft weapon+armor yourself. It'll not affect any balance or something, because everyone can do that anyway, with help alts. Whatever you won't craft EVERYTHING, because you can't get all the skills so high, so... I don't see any reasons to have prof lvl limitation per character. Why I can't craft 3 lvl SG + 2/3 lvl armor? For drugs now using alts, but with 1 hour relog time, you have to buy it from other players, who, for example, are EW 3 lvl + doc 3 lvl or something. So this EW/doc have to buy armor from other players, but he'll sell mentats, psycho, etc. One field for character is too low, one field, because 2/1 or 1/1/1 is almost useless. So you'll always have only 1 prof of 3rd level.
Edit:
Offtopic: Btw, with 1 hour relog time, you can make the cumulative CD on gathering, so you haven't wait 6 minutes watching youtube, you can get from 5 (if you have low carry weight) to 25 (23'59 minutes'seconds I think is enough) minerals/ore and then go to do something.
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But actually it's a really good suggestion. Once PvP builds will be able to craft PK suitable equipement without need to drasticly lower their fighting skills, we shall have less alts in use, and maybe more actual roleplaying.
nah, roll playing is when people dont need to have fuckin pvp character at all, and if everyone will have pvp character cause of this gay suggestion, it will change nothing at all except that everyone will have pvp character.
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and 1 hour relog would change nothing neihter. Cause all gangs who fight pvp are using fast relogs anyway, and most fair players and loners are not interested in powerbuild making.
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using fast relogs anyway
And how is it working? So one of them can gather ore/minerals at ~x10 speed by reloging with each character which standing near rocks? And what's that? I.P. changing? Then they can also dual log easily, and x5 log, and then using around 50 alts one guy can gather resources at x50 speed.
Edit: And if you're about friend(s)'s computer(s), then it's thier problem, it's the same, if you have friend who can craft an armor and a friend who can craft drugs.
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And how is it working? So one of them can gather ore/minerals at ~x10 speed by reloging with each character which standing near rocks? And what's that? I.P. changing? Then they can also dual log easily, and x5 log, and then using around 50 alts one guy can gather resources at x50 speed.
Edit: And if you're about friend(s)'s computer(s), then it's thier problem, it's the same, if you have friend who can craft an armor and a friend who can craft drugs.
andmins ban for dual log, but looks like they dont give a shit about fast relogin. I never used it, but i heard that any virtual machine can help you, and i heard that you can just copy fonline directory into another place, and that will work also.
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and i heard that you can just copy fonline directory into another place, and that will work also.
I'll try this right now. See what happen.
Edit:
Nope, just tryed:
D:\FOnline\FOnline.exe
and
D:\Fast Relog FOnline\FOnline.exe
It says need to wait 10 minutes, now I'll try to copy on another local disk.
Edit#2:
MAN IT WORKING!!!!!!1111
Edit#3: I'll post in Bugs.
Edit#4: No I won't because I think alot people know about that include devs/gms. Anyway I hope they will solve this problem.
Edit#5: Now I'll try to dual log and see how fast GMs will ban me!
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I disagree, requirements are fine. The problem is people plays many chars, not that the requirements are too high
And people play many chars because it takes big investment of valuable skill points to receive a profesion.
When developers will lower professions requirements, for a month someone will say that everyone should have 10 PE, 10 IN and 7 ST, couse he want to have biggunner, sniper and crafter in one char.
Then we tell him that it doesn't make sense and explain why.
no, requirements are fine. Everyone will have same alts since you can have 3 levels of professions, no matter what requirements will be. And roachor seriously get some balls, all your suggestions are just to make the game be played on easy mode.
It would at least reward people who want to play fair.
Besides, isn't using alts the easy mode in this case? Playing a lone character is much harder when you don't have a goddamn army of support characters with you.
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i am playing loner, and i have alts to see just for fun, for trying other professions other playing style not as support or other shit.
And some peoples suggestions are to make everything possible to do with one character, im just curious how you dont understand that this sucks by yourselves.
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Hey vederas, if your only contribution is to insult me how about instead of posting in my threads you take both your hands, ball them into fists and shove them up your own ass. It's not like you know your dick from your elbow in the first place.
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Hey vederas, if your only contribution is to insult me how about instead of posting in my threads you take both your hands, ball them into fists and shove them up your own ass. It's not like you know your dick from your elbow in the first place.
Damn, I was reading this 4 times and still can't understand what he want to say...
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i am playing loner, and i have alts to see just for fun, for trying other professions other playing style not as support or other shit.
And some peoples suggestions are to make everything possible to do with one character, im just curious how you dont understand that this sucks by yourselves.
How having lower requirements for profesions would change your playing style towards worse?
Besides why don't you state some credible theories instead of trying to insult people or speculate their "secret intentions".
So go ahead and explain why you are against this idea.
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dude i already did, even now you can be and combat player, and crafter if someone even doesnt fit you can have like 1, 1 and 1 profession, use drugs to get professions, or use drugs in fights to get maximum effectiveness. All i can see now, that you suck in creating one character or another and then think what suggestion to offer for forum, so you couldnt suck with the way you create your character. If others are not encountering problems and you are, then its not the systems fault, its yours and fix it by remaking your character if it suck so hard not by posting noob threads.
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dude i already did, even now you can be and combat player, and crafter if someone even doesnt fit you can have like 1, 1 and 1 profession, use drugs to get professions, or use drugs in fights to get maximum effectiveness. All i can see now, that you suck in creating one character or another and then think what suggestion to offer for forum, so you couldnt suck with the way you create your character. If others are not encountering problems and you are, then its not the systems fault, its yours and fix it by remaking your character if it suck so hard not by posting noob threads.
Now you did it again: you started to speculate my personal abilities and some hidden intentions I might have, not the contents of my post.
The point was: "How would having lower skill requirements for profesions make the gaming worse". Tell me how, don't tell that you already stated it somewhere. Stop making assumptions of people's personalities. Don't try to tell others how to play. Neither of those arguing methods have nothing to do with the thread.
If you state that there is no need for lower requirements because it is possible to do a hybrid character, it's the same thing as telling that melee doesn't need improvements because you can create a melee char. Even if something can be done, it doesn't mean that it works properly.
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i already told you 100 times, but you dont listen. All characters will be same, now big gunner is big gunner, and according to these suggestions, big gunner would be doctor, big gunner would be demo expert, big gunner would be taxi, big gunner would be everything. I prefer everyone having 100 alts, to everyone having same characters.
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It's not this suggestion's fault that the game has problems with character balance and not all skills are useful at the moment. When speculating new features, we sometimes have to shut off certain factors. At this point the factor that some skills are useless must be shut because it is expected that some day all of the skills are worthwile to take and provide good benefits.
There are 18 skills. They start to be useful when they are over 100. It is not possible to raiser even nearly all skills at that level, so nobody could do everything even if profesions demanded no investments.
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It's not this suggestion's fault that the game has problems with character balance and not all skills are useful at the moment. When speculating new features, we sometimes have to shut off certain factors. At this point the factor that some skills are useless must be shut because it is expected that some day all of the skills are worthwile to take and provide good benefits.
There are 18 skills. They start to be useful when they are over 100. It is not possible to raiser even nearly all skills at that level, so nobody could do everything even if profesions demanded no investments.
its author of suggestion fault that he doesnt know how to use skills. Yes there are some skills that are useless, gambling, speech. Which profession require those?
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its author of suggestion fault that he doesnt know how to use skills. Yes there are some skills that are useless, gambling, speech. Which profession require those?
You are so fucking stupid it's incredible.
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You are so fucking stupid it's incredible.
And you are so arrogant and vulgar, it's incredible. Thank God you are not Pole or Russian, there is much more vulgar words in these languages than just simple F-word.
vedaras you already have "the same" characters in PvP - 1 CH, 6 or 10 LK, high EN, drug addicted junkies. Possibilities of creating a char are limited, you can't be unique in SPECIAL system. And I don't think that with profession requirements we are having now "everyone" will be good fighter, crafter, doctor, taxi and babysitter.
What could be implement is an ability to take as many professions, as you can afford, so one char could be a repairman, crafter 3 lvl SG and 2 lvl Armorer for example, and also could fight in PvE, maybe even PvP. It wouldn't stop alts however, because of cooldowns - after making an armor you can just relog to another char, make another stuff and relog back to "basic" char to have some fun from fighting, chatting or whatever.
Preventing alts is like preventing pregnants in high school - milions of wise words and there is still at least one person, who won't listen :>
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vedaras you already have "the same" characters in PvP - 1 CH, 6 or 10 LK, high EN, drug addicted junkies. Possibilities of creating a char are limited, you can't be unique in SPECIAL system. And I don't think that with profession requirements we are having now "everyone" will be good fighter, crafter, doctor, taxi and babysitter.
What could be implement is an ability to take as many professions, as you can afford, so one char could be a repairman, crafter 3 lvl SG and 2 lvl Armorer for example, and also could fight in PvE, maybe even PvP. It wouldn't stop alts however, because of cooldowns - after making an armor you can just relog to another char, make another stuff and relog back to "basic" char to have some fun from fighting, chatting or whatever.
Preventing alts is like preventing pregnants in high school - milions of wise words and there is still at least one person, who won't listen :>
well we now have different set of similar characters, and with allmost no requirements, we would only have similar characters. I dont see that better in any way.
And with professions i see it similar like: if you study one thing hard, and you are one of the best at that subject (level 3 in our situation), you dont have time to study others. I like the current system, and i think that doesnt need any changes at all :>
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And with professions i see it similar like: if you study one thing hard, and you are one at the best at that subject (level 3 in our situation), you dont have time to study others. I like the current system, and i think that doesnt need any changes at all :>
If you want to compare with real life... ok.
That's like NOW it's working:
I studying in Energy Weapons hard (3 lvl). Damn, I need an armor! My soul leaving my body, then other person is creating and my soul going there. Now! I crafting an armor. Then my soul again coming into my main character. Now I have my energy gun and an armor!
How it'll work with no prof limitation:
I studying in Energy Weapons hard (3 lvl). Damn, I need an armor! Ok, I think I'll study at armor also. Ehh, I need to up my repair skill... (after some time) ok, now I'm ready to learn how to craft an armor!
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you should decided what you need before game and create your character according to that, not "oh i need this, i need that, damn i cant get that, i will make suggestion on forum so i will have it"
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you should decide what you need before game and create your character according to that, not "oh i need this, i need that, damn i cant get that, i will make suggestion on forum so i will have it"
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Yes there are some skills that are useless, gambling, speech. Which profession require those?
None, yet but my point was that even if no skill points were needed for profesions, new skillpoints wouldn't mystically appear from thin air. You just cannot raise every skill to good level because there isn't enough points to spend. Even character with intelligence 10, skilled trait and educated perk cannot master but few skills.
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None, yet but my point was that even if no skill points were needed for professions, new skillpoints wouldn't mystically appear from thin air. You just cannot raise every skill to good level because there isn't enough points to spend. Even character with intelligence 10, skilled trait and educated perk cannot master but few skills.
Well if you take 10 intelligence (even without skilled and educated) you are capable to have your character with 3 tagged skills at high levels (150% each or more), and all other useful skills (science, repair, outdoorsman, fa, doctor in this list) at 101%, so where is the problem?
I think the problem is that you want to make dumb character wiht low IN to get these points to other stats that could make you better in pvp fight and in the same time have skills at same good levels for professions and just using, but that doesnt work that way.
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Well if you take 10 intelligence (even without skilled and educated) you are capable to have your character with 3 tagged skills at high levels (150% each or more), and all other useful skills (science, repair, outdoorsman, fa, doctor in this list) at 101%, so where is the problem?
The problem is that all skills will eventually become useful. Even if you can put 8 skills at useful level, there are 10 skills left which you cannot do well. Besides, int 10 is pretty big investment and being very smart should also be rewarded well.
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being very smart wont make you superior scout, thief, gambler, mechanic, doctor and fighter at the same time still. It is rewarded well now and things just have to stay this way.
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Having read only the first post and ignored the rest ... I agree some of the requirements are strange. They've been untouched for a long time and probably need looking at at some point.
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Having read only the first post and ignored the rest ... I agree some of the requirements are strange. They've been untouched for a long time and probably need looking at at some point.
good call
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I don't understand the argument about it's either crafting, or hunter/combat, you can easily do both.
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I don't understand the argument about it's either crafting, or hunter/combat, you can easily do both.
No you can't. Crafter/pve maybe, but even then you won't be very good at it. PVP you're just fucked.
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Because of the crafting system in place now I can honestly say I want to use alts.. just sayin
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Some crafting professions require high combat special (like Agility and Strength) and high combat skills (Small Guns or Big Guns).
I guess this would be an exception to the rule?
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Ihmo the skill requirments for professions is fine. Sucky thing are thoes SPECIAL stats. Of course you CAN use buffout/mentats, but ive so far gotten real unlucky with them (concerning the addiction).
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Carry weight sucks when mining
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Carry weight sucks when mining
45 is enough.
>50 awesome
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Maybe we should pack up all combat skill into one skill so that people who get bored with their current fightng chars won't make alts with other weapons...
Or maybe set HP the same for everybody so that people with low-hp chars wouldn't be tempted to make alts.
Or maybe we should just alter registration so that all the stats would be at 10 so that people with low strenght/perception/endurance/charisma/inteligence/agility or luck will have no chance of feeling bad about their chars in any way. Then maybe they won't make alts.
Yeah, right. Like this game wasn't too easy from lvl5 up anyway.
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Right now I think people are being forced to put nothing lower than 7 INT into any build, really. Who in their right mind would ever choose anything below 7, MAYBE 6 for ANY character. A pure gunner? Sounds pretty boring to me. Having a low int means putting 7, 9, 11, points per level? Thats just an insult.
A solution to this is make it so a INT of 1 or 2 would give you 10-12 skill points per level rather than a pathetic 7. Make it like STR whereas you'd never want anything more than 7 but still be able to manage at 3 or 4 where you could perk out weapon handling (3 str). But also still reward those who choose 10 str or int where you get different perks because its 10. For example, anything over 8 str would start adding 3 hp per str instead of the 1 that it does right now.
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Strelok -> there is a perk called 'Educated' (+2 sp per level). Problem is that it requires 6int to begin with.
I can bet there are some pure gunners with low int. I met too many powerbuilds.
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My hth build has 2 int and it works out fine.
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How is it that hard? Exactly how many points do you need in a combat skill to not consider it bad?
By 21 my character ends up with:
151% First Aid.
131% Doctor.
115% Repair.
60% Science.
145% Barter.
100% Outdoors.
140% Small Guns.
That's all I need to do anything I would want to do. And hell, I could not put any points into Repair and I could end up with probably like 170-180% small guns.
But that seems excessive to me. I don't plan to have 95% chance to hit eye shots from across the map with a pistol, against people in power armor.
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You see people in PA because it's pre-wipe. No PA in normal time.
140 is very low for a good fighting char, even 180 is too low.
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How is it that hard? Exactly how many points do you need in a combat skill to not consider it bad?
By 21 my character ends up with:
151% First Aid.
131% Doctor.
115% Repair.
60% Science.
145% Barter.
100% Outdoors.
140% Small Guns.
That's all I need to do anything I would want to do. And hell, I could not put any points into Repair and I could end up with probably like 170-180% small guns.
But that seems excessive to me. I don't plan to have 95% chance to hit eye shots from across the map with a pistol, against people in power armor.
Yeah and what are your special stats? It's not as big of a deal for small guns since you don't need high strength but your character can't hit things at a distance with 140%, 115% repair is a waste of points since you have a 50% chance of destroying whatever you try to repair, you don't have enough science to craft alloys so you can only make low level guns, 130 doctor is also a waste since you get a 50% chance of healing weakness and its more than you need to heal crippled limbs. Just because you have high int doesn't mean your character isn't crap.
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Yeah and what are your special stats? It's not as big of a deal for small guns since you don't need high strength but your character can't hit things at a distance with 140%, 115% repair is a waste of points since you have a 50% chance of destroying whatever you try to repair, you don't have enough science to craft alloys so you can only make low level guns, 130 doctor is also a waste since you get a 50% chance of healing weakness and its more than you need to heal crippled limbs. Just because you have high int doesn't mean your character isn't crap.
just let people play their own style... Characters aren't just about having 95% chance of success on anything you attempt.
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just let people play their own style... Characters aren't just about having 95% chance of success on anything you attempt.
Yeah right now, in New Reno, I entered second floor at Mordino's casino and started to shoot at guards with shotgun, but I have 192% EW and only 45% SG, but I don't care, I killed that damned guard and np!
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just let people play their own style... Characters aren't just about having 95% chance of success on anything you attempt.
I was pointing out high int doesn't change what I'm saying, even to get those stats you need to take from other areas. This person thinks having high int means they can craft and shoot things when they can't.