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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Attero on February 21, 2010, 11:20:26 am
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Geathering:
-Geathering cooldown stays same however you can geather till total timeout is 20-30 mins. But you can only geather from one resource once and then it needs it to regenerate - the time is equal to timeout given by that resource node - this is to promote active play. And prevent camping resources in bases towns etc.(as for junk -increase the timeout that it gives to player , planty of junk can be gained by disassembling to begin with)
-Geathering doesnt require stats (those can be alternative) but doing a specific quest for given resource. Usage of specific item to geather is still needed ofc. *maybe those without needed skill needs to have specific book in inventory or his timer will just be bigger then those that do)
Crafting itself:
-Crafting doesnt give experience anymore.
-Experience for non combat skill usage like repair dissassemble FA should be either removed or rebalanced (dising should give science timeout).
New crafted items are worth alot to vendors - about 5 times that of item looted and they detteriorates slower. (FIX CAVES!!)
Crafting timeouts reduced to 1/3 time ?
Proffessions:
- Every character can have proffesion of 3 lvs max as of now , however there is level requirement to learn them : lv1 can be learned at 3 rd lv ... lv2 at 9th and level 3 at 15th.
- Player can unlearn proffession (all he had at once) but before he can learn a new he will need to wait 3 real days for every level of proffession he had).
- Proffessions can be learned regardless of SPECIAL (forcing pleayers to eat drugs where broken to begin with) instead player must pay 50% extra for every stat he is missing toward old requirement as teacher must spend more time to learn him.
- Additionaly player must provide materials for his training equal to 1h 3h and 10h of geathering time for according proffession level.
- Proffession can be learned with more lucrative stat level (120 repair for armorer lets say , 120 FA 80 doc for doctor 3). However having better stats then needed will reduce the timeout by using the skill/crafting.
the aim is to make most porffessions avaible to given player - so if one finds there is lack of given proffession he can change to it. Alternativly proffessions could have no stat requirement but instead the perk you get for having proffession would increase the assosiated skills (by 15 35 and 45 for example) but then that would interfere with skill cost when spending points .... if it would be possible to avoid that then this is nice idea instead of the following...
- Having proffession give player a perk that helps him in the associated skills ; Doctor3 will alwayes heal for max and heal all limbs (this used instead of luck factor), SG3 / BG3 /EW3 will will be able to repair their weapons to 0 deterrioration. Armorer3 can repair their armor to 0 det.(yess you guess right if you dont have proffession you can repair the weapon to max of 30% deterrioration) Keep in mind however that repair skill level still should plays it role to determine the success chance - (but somewhat easier it should be to repair now)
High tech crafts ;
-All those should requires specialised workbench - Armorer , big gunner etc... (not all tier 3 items need it just those the most expensive / popular).
To have access to such workbench one needs a good standing with faction that owns one - its oposite to be member of faction , we want one to be able to have player faction and be able to craft those items..
so i would imagine this to be like this:
To have access to such workbench you need +1000 reputation.
the reputation decays as it is 100/ day
you can do a repeatable (8h timeout or so) quest ot gain 200 reputation with given faction (it should require donating items / killing something / going to some given place - on random)
when a player is member of that faction his reputation wont decay under 500 (even when member he still needs to have 1000 rep to access the workbench.).
This i would call being "Friend of faction" as such player doesnt drop in reputation with other cities but the most hated one.
Finall stage of anti-alt-system would make crafting timeouts drop faster for players being online & active - how to achive this - i have no idea :S
(maybe player is considered active if he takes unique action to those in last 2 mins - or smth..
SAFE TRADING:
There is need to encourage player to player trading that can be compleate strangers - ATM its hella risky to trade those super expensive items - one can be stolen from or blown out - im not sure if its within engine /server power to add AH but maybe its possible to create area where no combat / special action can happen but trade ? dunno ...
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So, you can gather as quickly as you like until you hit the timeout, then switch to an alt and do the same. Then you can craft at 3 times the current speed. Then your timeouts go faster still when you are online.
There would be just a massive flood of crafted items.
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So, you can gather as quickly as you like until you hit the timeout, then switch to an alt and do the same. Then you can craft at 3 times the current speed. Then your timeouts go faster still when you are online.
There would be just a massive flood of crafted items.
and is it better as it is ? bots running and super passive play ? geather / buy mats craft on one character relog to another craft and so on as much as you will ?
with only minority of pleayers using their mains to geather /craft?
you can rise the logout timeout to 20 mins and keep the geathering timoe out at 20 mins its also an option ....
and i dont think that flood of crafted tiems is really worse then flood of items from caves .... (keep in mind that crafting still have timouts and give no exp - so having crafter alt would not be such a easy thing...)
hack ! you can make it so the timeout you get for geatherign is based on player level ..so lets say geathering ore on 1 lv char would result in 10 min timeout and on 20 lv it would be something around 3-4mins . (and set the total timeout to 15)
there is alwayes a solution if you look for one - the only question is if its within engine power...
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-Crafting doesnt give experience anymore.
-Experience for non combat skill usage like repair dissassemble FA should be either removed or rebalanced (dising should give science timeout).
These three lines are the fucking worst suggestion ive seen on this subforum for a month or so, and im talking quite serious here. This way crafters would be stuck with sucky combat skills on <lvl12 forever, getting lvl 21 would take more than two 80 in WoW. Doctor characters would be purely killed. They would have COMPLETLY NO WAY to get xp.
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and is it better as it is ? bots running and super passive play ? geather / buy mats craft on one character relog to another craft and so on as much as you will ?
with only minority of pleayers using their mains to geather /craft?
you can rise the logout timeout to 20 mins and keep the geathering timoe out at 20 mins its also an option ....
and i dont think that flood of crafted tiems is really worse then flood of items from caves .... (keep in mind that crafting still have timouts and give no exp - so having crafter alt would not be such a easy thing...)
hack ! you can make it so the timeout you get for geatherign is based on player level ..so lets say geathering ore on 1 lv char would result in 10 min timeout and on 20 lv it would be something around 3-4mins . (and set the total timeout to 15)
there is alwayes a solution if you look for one - the only question is if its within engine power...
Level isn't a problem. So it'll again better for all, except for newly players... All you suggestion will make what you want to make better to even worse.
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and i dont think that flood of crafted tiems is really worse then flood of items from caves
Don't get me started on caves :P
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These three lines are the fucking worst suggestion ive seen on this subforum for a month or so, and im talking quite serious here. This way crafters would be stuck with sucky combat skills on <lvl12 forever, getting lvl 21 would take more than two 80 in WoW. Doctor characters would be purely killed. They would have COMPLETLY NO WAY to get xp.
you missed the fact that proffesion requiremnts would be lowered so you could get a weapon skills too ! ... keep in mind that for lv3 proffession you would need 15th level so there would be no real need to spend points into yoru crafting skills before then.
another thing you should be able to level by quests more in future.
Level isn't a problem. So it'll again better for all, except for newly players... All you suggestion will make what you want to make better to even worse.
isnt ? for crafter it isnt idd but we dont want a world where player have 4 craftign alts non capable to kill shit and 1 combat character not capable to craft shit.
dunno what you meant but the newly players part...
+with no exp for crafting level would be harder and not achivable but no braining alt crafter.
Don't get me started on caves Tongue
hits the hurting spot again and again ... and again...
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you missed the fact that proffesion requiremnts would be lowered so you could get a weapon skills too ! ... keep in mind that for lv3 proffession you would need 15th level so there would be no real need to spend points into yoru crafting skills before then.
another thing you should be able to level by quests more in future.
Have you even ever played a crafter, doc, 100% fighter char? For a crafter char, 90% of the xp he gets is from crafted stuff. This would quite kill crafting for lower lvls. I remember me having an energy expert guy, that once it hit 21, i had no interest in crafting stuff with it as it gave me no more xp. As for doctors, doc and FA make up nearly all of their gained xp. For my fighter alt like 30-40% of gained xp is from outdoorsman and FA.
Sorry man, but most of your suggestions, and thats kinda nearly all, is just mould.
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Have you even ever played a crafter, doc, 100% fighter char? For a crafter char, 90% of the xp he gets is from crafted stuff. This would quite kill crafting for lower lvls. I remember me having an energy expert guy, that once it hit 21, i had no interest in crafting stuff with it as it gave me no more xp. As for doctors, doc and FA make up nearly all of their gained xp. For my fighter alt like 30-40% of gained xp is from outdoorsman and FA.
Sorry man, but most of your suggestions, and thats kinda nearly all, is just mould.
belive me i have and i dont like how it looks
whoe the f said crafter cant be fighter? i know who those that make crafters jsut to craft stuff for their fighters , thats how it look. Same for doctor. Being able to level better by crafting then by fighting is plain stupid , same goes for FA and outdoorsman.
You should only level by killing and quests , crafting is to allow you to kill stuff not to level you up, FA is to help you kill mroe stuff , outdoorsman is to avoid dangerous encoutners and find the sweet ones
sorry but i dont like how things are now, pure crafters should die in hell. (or be limited to quest exp)
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belive me i have and i dont like how it looks
whoe the f said crafter cant be fighter? i know who those that make crafters jsut to craft stuff for their fighters , thats how it look. Same for doctor. Being able to levelb etter by crafting then by fighting is plain stupid , same goes for FA and outdoorsman.
You should only level by killing and quests , crafting is to allow you to kill stuff not to level you up, FA is to help you kill mroe stuff , otudoorsman is to avoid dangerous encoutners and find the sweet ones
sorry but i dont like how things are now, pure crafters should die in hell. (or be limited to quest exp)
Yeah, crafter can be fighter, that true, in fact, my first char was crafter and fighter. But, oh well, if youre both - crafter and fighter - youre not much good in any of them. Low carry weight, low combat skills, crappy stats. To learn profession you gotta be mentats/buffout junkie, gotta invest many skill points in crafting skills so your fighting skills really suck. Youre no good in advanced combat, and crafting is slow for that kind of chars.
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Yeah, crafter can be fighter, that true, in fact, my first char was crafter and fighter. But, oh well, if youre both - crafter and fighter - youre not much good in any of them. Low carry weight, low combat skills, crappy stats. To learn profession you gotta be mentats/buffout junkie, gotta invest many skill points in crafting skills so your fighting skills really suck. Youre no good in advanced combat, and crafting is slow for that kind of chars.
Granted that crafter-fighter is worse than a pure fighter in combat (what a twist!), but it doesn't mean he can't do well in combat in the hands of an experienced player. The thing balancing it all out is the fact that to level a fighter you need way more effort than to level a crafter. It's just so much more time consuming - and you're basically no good till you reach at least level 15 (some would say 18 or even 21). And since there's a constant progress in fighter builds due to changes in economy and, errr, fashion - people who want to stay at the top generally constantly are leveling a new fighter build up. It's not really that bad, it's just that alts are a part of the game - to have a good alt, you need to spend a lot of time. With relog timeouts and crafting cooldowns they aren't messing anything up. Detecting dual logs seems to work just fine, so I don't really understand what's this anti-alt campaign all about.
And just think about it for a second - if you managed to somehow limit people to playing a single character, who the hell would really enjoy it aside from the odd "true roleplay" bunch? It'd drastically limit the number of things you can do with the game - if you go PvP, you can't craft, can't fight in the unarmed brawls, can't go on a country trip. Who the hell would choose to play high-CHA leaders or crafters if it's hard to convince people to make such an alt right now, even when it's really needed for the team? Alts aren't bad, alt abuse (fast relogs, dual logging etc.) is. If someone has the time and wants to double for an entire army and have an alt for everything - by all means allow him to do so, he's still way behind actual groups capable of doing things simultaneously.
And don't even get started with the usual "but this forces us to alt" and "loners get screwed that way". I made a competent crafter (as evidenced by a constant influx of CAs into BBS storage facilities), fighter (I think a lot of people who did ride my rocket can give a testimony to that), taxi (3 CHA, but hey, it's better than nothing!) and scout (outdoorsman at 150) who could gather basically everything all in one. And that really is the char I enjoy playing the most, because the experience is so smooth (don't have to wait to relog to do something else or ask someone else to drive me around the map). If I could do it, you can do it too. All it takes is a bit of experience and actually thinking about your build for a little while.
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@Qlang - thats the whole point of my ideas to reduce the requirements to learn proffession or even kick em out totaly so you dont need to gimp yoruself to be crafter.
@boat - none said that one should make alts but its bad that by being a crafter your other capabilities need to drop - in most game you will find that crafting is hard to level up and in most cases dont give exp at all. instead your character got something to earn money with and often become stronger.
but somewhat its against Fallput sense - being able to craft plama rifle with 10 science ... so we could rise the skills points avaible - and then one could become master of them all (thats quie bad) or we need to gimp other stats.
So what we can do ... we can give skill points bonus for having proffession ... if one would spend 120 in repair an 90 in science he could get that 20% free in small guns for free ... the case is however that the game doesnt see somethign as temporaty skill points - so one to benefit full from proffession would need to wait till very last levels and thats quite bad.
Sothe final option would be mayeb give some bonus damage for / resistance / healing for having proffession -but we would then yet mess more the hardly balanced world as its now..
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And don't even get started with the usual "but this forces us to alt" and "loners get screwed that way". I made a competent crafter (as evidenced by a constant influx of CAs into BBS storage facilities), fighter (I think a lot of people who did ride my rocket can give a testimony to that), taxi (3 CHA, but hey, it's better than nothing!) and scout (outdoorsman at 150) who could gather basically everything all in one. And that really is the char I enjoy playing the most, because the experience is so smooth (don't have to wait to relog to do something else or ask someone else to drive me around the map). If I could do it, you can do it too. All it takes is a bit of experience and actually thinking about your build for a little while.
+1
Here is my one and only char (http://www.imagic.pl/files/16414/ludek.jpg): 2 lvl Gunsmith Small Guns, 1 lvl Armorer, four-people taxi, a bit medic, a bit fighter. Yeah, sure, it's not some big badass mofo tank, impossible to kill and danger as kissing a sleeping tiger in a butt. But playing pure-fighter would be for me boring as hell, constant slaughter of creatures. Besides how do you get toys, if no-one would craft a thing (no XP for that, remember)?
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I've never played pure fighter, and don't want to. My "crafter" is only 12th level now, can easy kill high level, if he is dumb enough and don't kill me for 1 turn. And, really, i don't see MUCH difference between pure fighter and fighter/crafter. Both die really fast. Really difference is number, when you're alone, they're 3 or 4, and of couse, if they're in metal armor with rocketlauncher and sniper rifles, and you're in blue suit, sledgehammer and 5 iron ore in inventory. One on one with my armor and weapon i'll kill them easy, even if i'm not pure fighter, my weapon skill and crit chance is enough to crit eye shot them, soon double eye shot per turn with pistols... with 2 action boys.
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And just think about it for a second - if you managed to somehow limit people to playing a single character, who the hell would really enjoy it aside from the odd "true roleplay" bunch? It'd drastically limit the number of things you can do with the game - if you go PvP, you can't craft, can't fight in the unarmed brawls, can't go on a country trip. Who the hell would choose to play high-CHA leaders or crafters if it's hard to convince people to make such an alt right now, even when it's really needed for the team? Alts aren't bad, alt abuse (fast relogs, dual logging etc.) is. If someone has the time and wants to double for an entire army and have an alt for everything - by all means allow him to do so, he's still way behind actual groups capable of doing things simultaneously.
Here I can't agree with you :P. I was playing with a single character for a long time and I didn't have a feeling that I was limited in any way. The point is that you have to buy a lot of things from other players. It's not that bad, since most of players offer quite decent prices for their products, crafting them mostly to get exp.
At least it was possible before nerfing critical hits. You could build a great sniper without having to limit him that much, now 10 luck seems to be a must ::).
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One on one with my armor and weapon i'll kill them easy
You are very self confident :-).
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Here I can't agree with you :P. I was playing with a single character for a long time and I didn't have a feeling that I was limited in any way. The point is that you have to buy a lot of things from other players. It's not that bad, since most of players offer quite decent prices for their products, crafting them mostly to get exp.
At least it was possible before nerfing critical hits. You could build a great sniper without having to limit him that much, now 10 luck seems to be a must ::).
I know you can play a single character, but there are limits to what you can do. Take an unarmed fighter for example - you can't really do much more, and it's not a good main because it's very limited in a lot of areas even if you mix up and make him a crafter and a scout. Some builds are very fun if not overused and, unfortunately very specialised - and being unable to have an alt of the kind would simply mean that they disappear from the game or get used by a limited group of players.
Another argument in defense of alts (with constraints like login timeouts and forbidding dual logs in place of course) is the level cap - if you could play a single character only, there wouldn't be any character development going on for you. If you can have an alt or two going on, you are constantly increasing your capabilities as a player and you keep having something to do. A 1 character - 1 player system would mean that the only thing you'd have to do after reaching 21 would be TC and perhaps stockpiling stuff (but what the hell do you need that 20th CA for anyway?) - which in all honesty wouldn't be enough to keep me playing.
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Eh you will not see that much of differance 1v1 in random encoutners between combat and some crafter mix expecially in case of sniper - the main advantage of pure sniper is his range thats not the case here. He can have more crit % but its still random and between 60% and 70% crit chance there is not that much differance (depands on your chances imo). However if you happen to to have FA high then unless you can lock him out totaly with one FA he can heal up fully.
Also another case is that combat chars drug them selves up to hoof - they dont do that for encoutners and i dont belive you will want to lose your inante 2 aimed per round to jet addict yourself.
But in case of BG builds the differance is much much bigger - a 180 hp BG vs 250 HP one ...well the odds change.
Also keep not that for combat = FA ?& doc . In random encoutner yo ucan doc up with jsut 10% skill and cure the broken limb but thats 70min timeout after. with 100 the timeout is less then 10 min so while it shines in city fights...
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To be precise, it's actually 69% to 85% when shoting in the eyes and 59% to 75% when aiming in the head and I'd say that 16% of the spread makes a significant difference.
Another argument in defense of alts (with constraints like login timeouts and forbidding dual logs in place of course) is the level cap - if you could play a single character only, there wouldn't be any character development going on for you. If you can have an alt or two going on, you are constantly increasing your capabilities as a player and you keep having something to do. A 1 character - 1 player system would mean that the only thing you'd have to do after reaching 21 would be TC and perhaps stockpiling stuff (but what the hell do you need that 20th CA for anyway?) - which in all honesty wouldn't be enough to keep me playing.
I do really hope the devs let us advance somehow after reaching level 21 ::).
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And just think about it for a second - if you managed to somehow limit people to playing a single character, who the hell would really enjoy it aside from the odd "true roleplay" bunch? It'd drastically limit the number of things you can do with the game - if you go PvP, you can't craft, can't fight in the unarmed brawls, can't go on a country trip. Who the hell would choose to play high-CHA leaders or crafters if it's hard to convince people to make such an alt right now, even when it's really needed for the team?
The problem is that characters have too high potential to be good at something and too high potential to suck at something. Plaing a maximized powerbuild takes away all the other activities except the speciality. This is pretty irrational, even the world's top profesionals have still variety of skills at their disposal. They surely can read, talk, wash laundry, speak foreign languages and so on. In fonline a specialist is a retard robot who can't do anything else but his main task.
Another problem is that because of items being the basic need for everyone, characters are used only to hoard them. There's no reason to play THE character, as long as there's A character who can get items. The characters themselves don't get any better when max level is reached, but the ammount of items at certain group's or person's disposal can always be raised. So characters are used as tools to get items, instead of items being used as tools to get something for the characters. This causes people to regard their chars as tools and the game fails as role playing game.
EDIT: hah people made the same points while I was typing this message.
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The problem is that characters have too high potential to be good at something and too high potential to suck at something. Plaing a maximized powerbuild takes away all the other activities except the speciality. This is pretty irrational, even the world's top profesionals have still variety of skills at their disposal. They surely can read, talk, wash laundry, speak foreign languages and so on. In fonline a specialist is a retard robot who can't do anything else but his main task.
Not really, no. All characters can do all the basic things with some effort (drugs), being able to do one or two things exceptionally well is what makes them specialists - and that's all fine and the way it should be. What would you want, a BG gunsmith who incidentally can make his own stimpacks and an occasional Plasma Rifle? THAT would be really f**ked up.
Another problem is that because of items being the basic need for everyone, characters are used only to hoard them. There's no reason to play THE character, as long as there's A character who can get items. The characters themselves don't get any better when max level is reached, but the ammount of items at certain group's or person's disposal can always be raised. So characters are used as tools to get items, instead of items being used as tools to get something for the characters. This causes people to regard their chars as tools and the game fails as role playing game.
Wouldn't people be less important than items in a postnuclear world? They sure are in low-tech Fading Suns, which doesn't stop it from being an excellent RPG system. Why would that be a problem at all anyway? And you're not even right with that, cause the game isn't about items (can be replaced/restocked in a day or two), it's about knowledge and having a lot of friends and aquintances. Anyway, the reason people aren't roleplaying is because they don't really want to,, not because the mechanics are set this way or that way. To have a roleplaying experience you need a carefuly selected bunch of guys and girls caring about having a roleplaying experience - 2238 is an open server, so there's never gonna be serious rp here, sorry. As far as less serious rp is concerned (ie. people not doing stuff out of character), 2238 looks quite good - gang leaders engage in diplomacy on their own initiative, there's player-player trade, players care about their equipment more than about themselves which fits the setting, technology is limited to the best organized groups etc. Not really much to complain about - it's as good as it gets in a game that basically lets everyone in.
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I don't really understand what's this anti-alt campaign all about.
I do. Many people have main characters that can fight, and crafter alts that can craft equipment for his main. If the main needs eqipment, he logs on his alt, crafts the necessary gear, then sends that character back to sleep because what else can he do without combat skills? The devs wanted crafting to be a secondary thing, but high level items needing "useless" skills like repair and science killed the idea, and introduced teh alt. They wanted characters like you, that can fight, and still craft, but players want only the best items, and for that, they need alts. Alts also consume resources (in 1 way or another) even when they arent logged in as i can well imagine.
I had a crazy idea about utilizing characters that have a high science/repair skill, but no combat skills, and introduce new gameplay elements. Ofc as this is a small project it likely wont happen but what the heck..
Why not let crafter toons with a high reapir/science skill choose a new perk. A new perk that lets them build robots to defend them, or turrets to defend a base! Behold my brethren, teh Engineer class is born!(Anarchy Online reference) They arent good at handling a gun(repair and science consuming most skill points), but hey, i would not recommend touching the guy if he has a f****g sentry bot on his side with mounted miniguns and hellfire rockets :D
And while im at it, a character with a high charisma is a good troop transport, but other then that, they are like crafter alts, useless. He can hire mercs, but why does it cost money?? How about another perk for peeps with a high speech skill and charisma, to be able to gather followers, like mercs to defend him? Behold, teh Beurocrat class!(another Anarchy Online reference which is a scifi mmorpg btw)
Hmm how about utilizing the outdoorsmen skill, so the group has a Scout? High outdoorsmen, but little to no combat skills? No problem! Just choose the animal friend perk, that lets you tame wild beasts not just brahmin, duh... Again, the higher the outdoorsmen(and PE), the more and/or deadlyer beasts can be tamed, at the expense of not beeing able to hold a minigun properly..
What about the melee class? How about a high level perk that turns them into a Tank? With a high enough skill in melee, he can choose a perk that lets him wear Power Armor! Yeah thats right, PA, and want to know how this wont imbalance the game? Well simple! He cant choose perks that boost his DPS. High endurance, but low damage output.
Lets not forget about the Grenadier ofc. High throwing/traps skill enables a perk that boost the radius of grenades, or maybe not the blast radius, only add an extra effect to the explosion that knocks back/down mobs in a higher vicinity.
Doctor needs a revamp...
Snipers and Support gunners would get there own perks that can be chosen at 200+ skill.
If you read carefully, most of the fictional characters ive brought up in my post are allready in the game, but only in the form of crafter alts. IMO giving them tools to be effective in a group situation, and letting them actually defend themselves would help the economy in more then 1 way...
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Well, I always play only one char at a time, abandoning old ones when I make a new one, but as Nice_Boat I also see nothing bad in alts the way they are now.
The problem with crafting (for me) is that gathering most materials offers no challange at all, is boring (especially ore and minerals), yet takes a damn lot of time. Mingling with the timeouts can only balance/unbalance the crafter's advancement and amount of items in-game. IT WON"T help make crafting more interesting (so that people would like the idea of actually PLAYING a crafter (not using a crafting char, which is the most common, or making a crafter/sth.else hybrid).
People rarely use low-level items, because they mostly don't need them. that's all. As long as making a magnum will be only a way to get xp and cash for making a sniper nothing will change. Unless crafter would have a need of a shotgun (or a friend using shotgun) to get at least some of the needed materials, nothing will change. As long as resources (the most important ones - ore and minerals) will lie on the ground waiting to be taken NOTHING WILL CHANGE.
Getting materials should take some effort (waiting for timeout to run down, even if it is a needed feature right now, is not an effort). I mean the kind of an effort like getting golden gecko hides requires.
Yes, I know. some of you will say: but killing mobs is too easy, it wouldn't make a difference, my 'X'lvl crafter can kill averything but centaurs on his own (...). Yes. You're right. but your 'X' lvl crafter wasn't always on level X! Some time ago he was a way weaker, and then he would need to fight/get someone to fight with those cratures. Simple.
Yes, the changes that I proposed about 1000 times already will not change much (or at all) the situation of 21lvl chars. But it could make a saying 'this game starts at level 21' a bit less true.
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Not really, no. All characters can do all the basic things with some effort (drugs), being able to do one or two things exceptionally well is what makes them specialists - and that's all fine and the way it should be. What would you want, a BG gunsmith who incidentally can make his own stimpacks and an occasional Plasma Rifle? THAT would be really f**ked up.
Who needs drugs to talk to another person?
It's alright that you can do few things exceptionally well, but does it have to mean that you must suck at everything else? That's one reason why many players use alts. Besides the profesions already make it impossible for one player to master everything, so we'd never see crafters who can make everything.
Wouldn't people be less important than items in a postnuclear world? They sure are in low-tech Fading Suns, which doesn't stop it from being an excellent RPG system. Why would that be a problem at all anyway? And you're not even right with that, cause the game isn't about items (can be replaced/restocked in a day or two), it's about knowledge and having a lot of friends and aquintances. Anyway, the reason people aren't roleplaying is because they don't really want to,, not because the mechanics are set this way or that way. To have a roleplaying experience you need a carefuly selected bunch of guys and girls caring about having a roleplaying experience - 2238 is an open server, so there's never gonna be serious rp here, sorry. As far as less serious rp is concerned (ie. people not doing stuff out of character), 2238 looks quite good - gang leaders engage in diplomacy on their own initiative, there's player-player trade, players care about their equipment more than about themselves which fits the setting, technology is limited to the best organized groups etc. Not really much to complain about - it's as good as it gets in a game that basically lets everyone in.
People less important than items? What good is a fruit supposed to do if you're dead.
People always get together in multiplayer games. However it strongly seems that the game's goal is about items. People kill each other for loot, people are willing to die for loot, it's much bigger damage to take someone's items than to take his life. But then again, it's all the same what the game is about in this discussion, it's just so that item based system encourages alts. If it was character based, it would be more encouraging to keep developing one character instead of making new ones.
And what comes to roleplay, it happens on its own if game mechanics are on par with the game's background story. When the mechanics encourge players to play along with the story, players might be role playing without even knowing it just like you explained it with players trading etc.
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Well , I have to agree with Nice_Boat that armory and items etc. are more important than a human life in such a wasteland.
Leader XY will easily send some of his troops into death just because he needs technology XY etc.
But yeah, character based sounds allright - but it would be a too big overthrow at the moment I think.
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Avv doesnt speak about "human life price" in Wasteland,
but how the player consider their own charcater life.
And I m agree with him.
Thats really lame in a role-play based game like FO.
Once players have enough equipement in stock, they dont care about staying alive.
They lose nothing in death actualy.
The alts used kill the game mechanics thats a fact.
The wealth of any multiplayer game is the characters diversity.
Where is the interest to play if you are self-sufficient as player ?
That limit the player interaction to kill records.... a "Who piss the farthest" game... so great
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Anti-alt is the key to many problems - and to this one in particular.
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Anti-alt is the key to many problems - and to this one in particular.
For starters maybe, but it only tries to force people not to use alts while encouraging would be much more effective. People simply would not use alts if it wasn't profitable.
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People simply would not use alts if it wasn't profitable.
I doubt that can be possible without kill the game himself, but if it is it would be in the game foundation.
So, impossible here.
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Looks like noone here has tought that many people (that includes me) make alts not for providing their mains with endless supplies, but for getting bored to play with their main. Using one kind of weapons or crafting all the time gets old soon. Always wanted to make a melee fighter :P
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Using one kind of weapons or crafting all the time gets old soon. Always wanted to make a melee fighter :P
Here is the point, Quentin.
The purpose is not to be the Best in many domains with one character.
So if you dont want to be specialized, just dont do it...
Mix his character is all the interest of a system like the SPECIAL.
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Looks like noone here has tought that many people (that includes me) make alts not for providing their mains with endless supplies, but for getting bored to play with their main. Using one kind of weapons or crafting all the time gets old soon. Always wanted to make a melee fighter :P
Well it was said that characters have too high potential to be good at something, this strongly encourages players to make very powerful fighting characters who can't do anything else but fight with their chosen weapon skill. For example it would be logical that a big gun dude would be decent a fistfighter, or a recon sniper could be a good backstabber, but to be good at something in fonline it requires very high investment in skillpoints and perks, not to mention careful stat and trait buildup.
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Here is the point, Quentin.
The purpose is not to be the Best in many domains with one character.
So if you dont want to be specialized, just dont do it...
Mix his character is all the interest of a system like the SPECIAL.
Yeah, of course you can mix the character, but you cant have a character that has SG, EW, BG, melee, FA, outdoorsman high enough. So alts are still required.
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For me the problem is in your "to be good" and "high enough" mind.
If you mean for PVP, for sure a specialist will have the advantage.
I hear your "high enough" as be a God, Quentin.
There is a lot of game that allow you to be one (near all... hum),
so everyone can see the result of this choice...
Are you sure to see an interest in a FO with all player at 10 in each SPECIAL and 300% in all skill ?
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For me the problem is in your "to be good" and "high enough" mind.
If you mean for PVP, for sure a specialist will have the advantage.
I hear your "high enough" as be a God, Quentin.
There is a lot of game that allow you to be one (near all... hum),
so everyone can see the result of this choice...
Are you sure to see an interest in a FO with all player at 10 in each SPECIAL and 300% in all skill ?
My ''High Enough'' stat ''Seal of Approval'', that i worship so much, is about worthy skill point investment in an particular stat. Now, what i mean with this ''worthy investment'', is, that, in my opinion (oh, praise the democracy), it is worth to invest your hard-gained, limited skill points in a particular stat only if you reach a particular percentage of the stat where that stat begins to get/gets useful. What i mean with that epic, philosophical line, is that it is some good investing your skill points in, as an example, repair only if you get it at 40% (because of junk), 80% (because of electronic parts) or more (for profession, or simply succesful repairing (wich needs atleast 150%)). That means, i'd quite really call anyone, that has invested his skill points into repair until he gotten 40 to 80 (not talking about forced 41%'s) or more than 80, tough he doesnt need a profession or being repairman, a retard.
(Go go trolls, troll me!)
Same with other stats - science - 40/60/80. Outdoorsman - 40, altough, it should be as high as you can get it. FA atleast 80, because only then you get normal heals (well, actually they aint, but well, il just call them normal). To afford all thoes stats, you need quite the INT, but hey, you also need other SPECIALS... Now use one of the character creator tools and show me a char that could supply himself, would be any good (in my terms) in combat and so on.
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Hum, not sure to have well understand your mind.
But in case,
with a standart SPECIAL (not optimized) 5/8/5/4/6/6/6,
you can have at lvl 21 :
Smallgun : 200
FA : 80
Science : 80
Outdoors : 40
And you keep 67 skill points in stock....
So it seems like you can have a mixed Char with a poor IN at start, isnt it ?
About gathering (junk etc) this is Science,
but maybe Repair does the same work I dont know.
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About gathering (junk etc) this is Science,
but maybe Repair does the same work I dont know.
Nope, junk and electronic parts require repair. 40 and 80.
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Not to create a new topic, I hope this'll be read by some mod and forwarded to some dev if deemed interesting.
My solution to everything (TM) but mostly just alts:
It is based on the assumption that creating a database record which will list who made which item is possible and won't stress the server too much. Otherwise this won't work and should be ignored.
I know people hate nerfing stuff so I focused on adding bonuses rather than penalizing players.
Alts are used because the main character is not as powerful if he has to multitask. Of course it is very playable to have a doctor/armourer/gunsmith combo but whatever. Some want godlike chars or nothing, so they need alts nao or they ragequit for 5 minutes and spam forums, but I digress.
In order to make your crafter a main character, he needs more advantages. So why not keep track of who crafted what?
The logic behind this is that if I made a gun, I know it better than some random dude. I know the handle was made without much care and it shouldn't be treated too roughly, etc. So if you are using a gun you made, it deteriorates at 75% speed compared to what it would if used by someone else. Self-made guns also are 15% more accurate if used by owner. That's not justified by any logic, but it gives another advantage.
Going further, armour worn by the person who crafted it deteriorates at 50% speed because since you have like 150% repair, you can patch it up on the spot or know how to move so as not to damage it further. +1 threshold and +20% AC is added as well but only if worn by the person who made it.
I've no idea how drugs work so I'll leave it up to mods to adjust if it's needed.
Repairing will also be influenced. This can cause some protest, but it doesn't seem too unbalancing. If you are not the person who repaired an item, each time it was repaired causes it to deteriorate 20% faster. So that if it was repaired 3 times, it deteriorates at 160% normal speed. If once, then 120%.
Profession requirements could be lowered for the first two levels, but slightly if anything. I don't think there's a need for that as they seem low already, but it could help people be even more motivated to stop alting.
Yay, nay?
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It is based on the assumption that creating a database record which will list who made which item is possible and won't stress the server too much. Otherwise this won't work and should be ignored.
Considering the number of items in-game, I'm afraid that it could stress the server much. Something simpler comes to my mind though - if a character that can craft a certain item (has it on his craft list) gets some boost for using it, it would also make sense and perhabs would be easier to implement. Generally, I think the idea is worth discussing, but why not a separate thread ::)?
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Generally, I think the idea is worth discussing, but why not a separate thread ::)?
I agree with it, need another treqd to developp your mind.
And as Elmehdi, I dont like this concept.
Bonus instead malus... not a bad thing, very effectiv in most case.
But this technic tend to be very pervers too with time....
This is a too much marketing way in my mind... Better to consider player as "adult" than "kid", to impulse adlut behaviour.
I hope that FO will not tend to attract "player that want to be God".
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@Quentin
My char have less than 30% in repqir but over 40% in Science, and he can find Junk...
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Indeed it seems I would have done better creating a new thread. But it fits this topic and all...
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Nice_Boat lol whats name of that anime in your signature ;D
back to topic:
Attero idea looks to complicated I don't even bother to read.
For me economy is working fine for now, I manage to sell fibers at normal price for the time I gather it, which is a steady gain of income. You should just rework the item base prices at traders so it fits the time spent on gathering materials.
You could also add more different encounters with different drop, so newbies can hunt something too. For example rat meat :D
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Nice_Boat lol whats name of that anime in your signature ;D
back to topic:
Attero idea looks to complicated I don't even bother to read.
For me economy is working fine for now, I manage to sell fibers at normal price for the time I gather it, which is a steady gain of income. You should just rework the item base prices at traders so it fits the time spent on gathering materials.
You could also add more different encounters with different drop, so newbies can hunt something too. For example rat meat :D
The way prices are calculated will (at least this is intended at the moment) be that the trader ignores all barter modifications to price *if* the item is on that traders list.
For example Eldridge in Reno would be SG/BG 2 and 3. All these items he would both buy and sell at base cost. All others would be affected by Barter.
This allows you to sell and buy things at a reasonable price whatever your barter skill, however keeps Barter as a usful skill because with a high skill you can trade accross the traders without having to rely on trading items for caps at traders to then retrade somewhere else.
This, combined with better restocking mechanisms should enable anyone to be able to use traders and also actually have useful items at traders as well. Without needing to make the Barter skill completely useless.
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If the server can't handle all the items, how about this for a bright idea? Get rid of the damn full loot. If you don't have to craft an endless stream of items then people won't.
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If the server can't handle all the items, how about this for a bright idea? Get rid of the damn full loot. If you don't have to craft an endless stream of items then people won't.
I like this. Most of a guy's items and all of his cash should be lost forever when he dies. The game needs a lot more means of economic deflation.