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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Survival Guides / Game Help => Topic started by: Roachor on February 13, 2010, 07:57:43 pm
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Melee builds are a good way to go if you don't like the long waiting involved with cooldowns or the risk of losing gear in combat. First off I'll start off with the basic things you need to know:
*The unarmed combat tables; as you level different attacks add bonus damage or chance to crit. Knowing what does what is crucial so always consider this table. http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Unarmed
*Fast shot affects hth and melee, this is essential to damage based builds.
*First aid is crucial in staying alive, with 10 luck you always heal the base amount of your skill so even a low FA with 10 luck is more powerful than high FA with any other amount of luck.
*Doctor skill has multiple benefits, the least of which is healing crippled limbs. You can removed weakend state 100% of the time if your skill is 10x your current level. Living anatomy is highly recommended for bypassing high armour values, the more hits you get in the better this perk.
*There is such a thing as too many skill points. With fast shot the most you should have in a melee skill is 130%. If an enemy has max agility and brotherhood armour thats 30 ac total, you'll still have 95% chance to hit.
*Melee crit builds can have 95% chance to crit on eyeshots with high damage and armour piercing, but the tradeoff is you get one to two hits instead of 4-6 with a damage build. You're looking at 30-50 damage per turn with chance to cripple vs about 130 damage a turn with no chance to cripple.
*With many hth damage bonuses most melee weapons become worse than fists, but at end level using a ripper will do about double the damage(and has piercing) but with 15% less chance to crit. Rippers can be found at 0% det. in caves pretty much everywhere but their owners can kill you quickly if you don't have a lot of health.
SPECIAL ED
Strength: The most strength you need for unarmed attacks is 6, 4 for ripper builds. You get 1+ hth for each point you put in past 6.
Perception: No real use for hth builds, you can see whats within distance and long range chars will kill you long before you get near them so seeing them isn't much of an advantage. Also most instances are small enough that they will be within line of sight.
Endurance: Definitely a high priority put as many points into this as your build allows and remember never to put an uneven number as its a wasted point. I strongly suggest having 10.
Charisma: Another useless skill. For a first character you could put 3 but its a waste in the long run. Mentats can be taken to up even the most pitiful levels to do the starting quests which I will talk about later and talking to npcs is useless unless you have high barter (which you probably won't).
Intelligence: It is very important for most builds and depending on what skills you want you can sacrifice combat ability for other skills. One of my builds has 5 int and at 21 has 130 unarmed, 138 FA(with 10 luck) and 211 doctor with living anatomy taken as the last perk. This means I can get back to the game 60 seconds after being killed. The trade off is i only have 4 attacks and less health than I'd like.
Agility: 10 is always a good idea but you can get away with 8 with fast shot if you need points elsewhere. For 12 ap builds throwing is a good option for a secondary skill although it will eat up a lot of skill points. You can throw accurately with 1 pe with 150 throwing. Remember that 7 is the minimum for haymaker which is one of the best hth attacks in the game, especially for fast shot.
Luck: The least amount you should ever have is 6 for toughness, which is crucial to any build. 10 is ideal for the FA effect. If you have a jinxed char having 10 luck will limit your crit fails to missing a turn, where anyone with low luck can have everything from losing ammo to having a grenade explode in their hands. A lot of critters will cripple themselves trying to hurt you like this.
Traits
I'm only going to cover the ones that are useful.
*Fast shot is pretty crucial for obvious reasons
*Heavy handed is a good choice if you aren't a crit build. More damage all the time greatly outweighs a bit more damage infrequently.
*Small frame can get you that extra point and the downside isn't an issue when you don't have gear.
*Jinxed can be a fun extra but only if you have high luck, otherwise prepare yourself for frustration.
*Good natured can give low int chars that FA/doc boost they need.
*One hander affects all energy based melee weapons so if you want to save on skillpoints its an option, especially if you are going for eye shots.
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Perks
*Toughness is essential. You have to trade off damage to get it but its worth it. I made a maximum damage char and he doesn't do very well unless he is in metal mk 2. If you have access to a lot of armour its a doable tradeoff.
*Bonus hth damage adds up, with 3 ranks, heavy handed and 10 str you get +15 damage. For unamed this means 12-22 damage per punch. With a ripper its roughly 30-50 per 2 ap attack.
*Action boy x 2 can net you 6 attacks per turn or an attack every 0.83 seconds. For a crit build you need 11 ap for your final targeted attack so keep that in mind.
* More crit, honestly I don't think its really worth it since random crippling isn't implemented. Even without the -30% roll on the crit table you're only looking at an extra 10-15 damage and with the base cirt levels of unarmed already being pretty high there are better perks.
*Lifegiver is very important, but the second rank is a waste of a perk. 20 extra health isn't a very good tradeoff.
*Living anatomy has the dual effect of adding +5 damage after DR is calculated and adding a 20% bonus to doc, very useful. 30 extra damage with 6 attacks is a very nice bonus.
* If hth evade and faster hth attacks ever start working take those, until then its more of a wishlist situation.
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Holy shit! Fast shot works with hth?! My world has just crumbled.
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Holy shit! Fast shot works with hth?! My world has just crumbled.
Yeah if faster hth worked you could put out 300+ damage a turn
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yeah, 1 ap for the haymaker would make an unarmed character so much more useful
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If I used a unarmed weapon like spiked Knuckles or power fist, will I still can use strong punch or haymaker, Piercing Strike? I can use strong punch now but if I equipped the knuckles, I only get punch instead of strong punch. So I am bit confused about this since knuckles is also unarmed weapon.
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If I used a unarmed weapon like spiked Knuckles or power fist, will I still can use strong punch or haymaker, Piercing Strike? I can use strong punch now but if I equipped the knuckles, I only get punch instead of strong punch. So I am bit confused about this since knuckles is also unarmed weapon.
Knuckles for noobs at unarmed, with big skill at unarmed you using east type of fighting. So you use your fingers and palms, not fists. That's why knuckes do less damage, than your bare hands.
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So umm... I dont get the part with
"It costs you one less action point for guns and thrown weapons."
effecting HtH. FO1 Fast shot trait effected every weapon according to the wiki, but as far as i know FOnline is based on FO2 in which fast shot was completely useless for a melee character.
So is this a huge bug either in the mechanics, or just a simple graphical bug in the char making screen which mislead me and ruined my character?
Because Fast shot would sooo much better then heavy handed in my case :(
Even in realtime aimed shots are useless anyway since by the time i get to the enemy, select which limb to attack, he just casually steps 1 hex away and im out of range. (and most likely dead a few moments later) :/
Btw i had a very high skill(150+ i dont remember) in melee in FO1, and i made a critical strike with every attack to the eyes on super mutants, so i thought extra skill increases the chance to crit, or am i wrong and the 20+ points spent in melee was a waste?
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Knuckles for noobs at unarmed, with big skill at unarmed you using east type of fighting. So you use your fingers and palms, not fists. That's why knuckes do less damage, than your bare hands.
Thanks for the help. But how about power fist? With it can you use Haymaker or Piercing Strike?
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Thanks for the help. But how about power fist? With it can you use Haymaker or Piercing Strike?
Don't know exactly. But i think not.
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*One hander affects all energy based melee weapons so if you want to save on skillpoints its an option, especially if you are going for eye shots.
what about pwr fist?
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Thanks for the help. But how about power fist? With it can you use Haymaker or Piercing Strike?
You don't get the additional + to damage and crit bonus from using named attacks like haymaker and piercing fist when using unarmed weapons. So when you use brass knuckles you do less damage because they do 2-5 so it lowers the amount you do significantly. Power fist does 12-24 so it outweighs the 7 dmg you lose from using the item. The bonus to hth on your character sheet does stack with it though so it should be possible to do like 27-39 per hit with hth damage x 3, heavy handed and the str bonus. As for fast shot, its affected more things since last wipe.
Another tip for low level players, if you equip a rock and scroll to the punch attack it will take 1 ap less to punch, so you can hit 10 times a turn at lvl 1. This is less beneficial at high levels but at the start you should be able to kill most critters.
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How is it better to gain exp: craft, encs or may be smth special (caves?)?
On lvl 2-3 can i gain exp by killing creeps (smaall scorps and others)?
What equipment will i need to do this? (metall armor or can i go just without anything at all?)
Others advice on exping please :)
Very very interesting guide, thanks btw
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You don't get the additional + to damage and crit bonus from using named attacks like haymaker and piercing fist when using unarmed weapons. So when you use brass knuckles you do less damage because they do 2-5 so it lowers the amount you do significantly. Power fist does 12-24 so it outweighs the 7 dmg you lose from using the item. The bonus to hth on your character sheet does stack with it though so it should be possible to do like 27-39 per hit with hth damage x 3, heavy handed and the str bonus. As for fast shot, its affected more things since last wipe.
Another tip for low level players, if you equip a rock and scroll to the punch attack it will take 1 ap less to punch, so you can hit 10 times a turn at lvl 1. This is less beneficial at high levels but at the start you should be able to kill most critters.
Thank you. Very useful information.
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How is it better to gain exp: craft, encs or may be smth special (caves?)?
On lvl 2-3 can i gain exp by killing creeps (smaall scorps and others)?
What equipment will i need to do this? (metall armor or can i go just without anything at all?)
Others advice on exping please :)
Very very interesting guide, thanks btw
It depends what you want to do, healing yourself gives 3xp per hp healed so that adds up if you have high endurance. Pve at low levels your best bet is the mutant plants around the glow, at mid go for small deathclaws around v13 and at high levels go for large deathclaws in caves or centaurs and floaters. Crafting is the easiest way to xp but its the most boring. Always take toughness x2 and you should be good in metal as long as you play it safe with the hp.
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greate. it really helps. thanks a lot)
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"Bonus HtH Damage" this worth? I mean only add +2 to damage... :-\
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"Bonus HtH Damage" this worth? I mean only add +2 to damage... :-\
+6 damage added to the other +9 ends up being twice the damage you would do otherwise.
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+6 damage added to the other +9 ends up being twice the damage you would do otherwise.
Hmm I'm sorry, +9 from what? :-[
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where are you from youkai? i notice that is ergo proxy ^^
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Hmm I'm sorry, +9 from what? :-[
6 from the perk, 4 from heavy handed and 5 from having 10 str.
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You don't get the additional + to damage and crit bonus from using named attacks like haymaker and piercing fist when using unarmed weapons. So when you use brass knuckles you do less damage because they do 2-5 so it lowers the amount you do significantly. Power fist does 12-24 so it outweighs the 7 dmg you lose from using the item. The bonus to hth on your character sheet does stack with it though so it should be possible to do like 27-39 per hit with hth damage x 3, heavy handed and the str bonus. As for fast shot, its affected more things since last wipe.
Another tip for low level players, if you equip a rock and scroll to the punch attack it will take 1 ap less to punch, so you can hit 10 times a turn at lvl 1. This is less beneficial at high levels but at the start you should be able to kill most critters.
Ok, no bonus dmg and crit if using any weapons, and what about armor penetration? (or equipping even power fists disables any "special attacks" like palm strike etc.?)
and....where can i get rock? :D
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6 from the perk, 4 from heavy handed and 5 from having 10 str.
Ty ;D
where are you from youkai? i notice that is ergo proxy ^^
Brazil. And few people knows this anime (i guess) :P
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Every unarmed weapon works like an ordinary PUNCH attack. Not a STRONG PUNCH or any other kind.
Power fist does 12-24 so it outweighs the 7 dmg you lose from using the item. The bonus to hth on your character sheet does stack with it though so it should be possible to do like 27-39 per hit with hth damage x 3, heavy handed and the str bonus.
Bonus Melee Damage adds only to your max damage. So with 15 BMD you can have 12-39 with Power Fist or 20-55 with Mega Power Fist.
BHtHD adds 0-2 damage, that is just 1 damage more on average.
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Nice guide, Mutilator!
I just wanna ask some questions you probably stumbled upon during your tests.
With 1 PE and let's say 6 STR, how much throwing skill should I have to throw sufficiently?
Also, the 130 maximum usable value is it same for both melee and unarmed?
Mega power fist and Ripper are both penetrating?
Is there a reason to prefer melee to unarmed or it's only a "visual" choice (speaking about non-crit build, 10 AP, fast shot)?
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Nice guide, Mutilator!
I just wanna ask some questions you probably stumbled upon during your tests.
With 1 PE and let's say 6 STR, how much throwing skill should I have to throw sufficiently?
Also, the 130 maximum usable value is it same for both melee and unarmed?
Mega power fist and Ripper are both penetrating?
Is there a reason to prefer melee to unarmed or it's only a "visual" choice (speaking about non-crit build, 10 AP, fast shot)?
I've been having some problems with my 1 pe throwing build, for some reason the game thinks my range is nine despite the fact I can hit things at 15 fairly accurately. it just seems to stop showing the chance to hit past 9 hexes, no idea why since it's range is strength based(You need 3 str to get maximum range). Its -4% chance to hit per hex and at 128% I have an 80% chance to hit at 9 hexes, so I need another 39% in throwing to get maximum range at 95%(167%). The benefit of this is in encounters everything spawns in a big lump so lvling with grenades is fairly quick. Mega power fist are pretty much interchangeable with the ripper, but is rare/expensive where there are a million 0% det rippers in game and you can farm caves as the spawn on cannibals quite often. The downside to taking melee is that if you die you can't do anything until you get armed at a base where a hth char can still kill shit. 130% should also be the max for melee unless you are using a 2 range weapon but spears are terrible and take 4 ap, supersledge is fun but it's expensive and risky to use. Even so the worst case scenario is like 91% chance to hit if they have 10 agi and are in BA, and at that point you're probably about to get minigunned anyways.
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Thanks a lot, that really helped. Anyway I picked unarmed, cause I have quite good supplies of MPFists (upgrades of the ones from encounters). My build based on your guide is working fine, I made like 6 lvls since I wrote the question only by fighting without any equipment and using first aid + doctor when weakened and it's more fun than I expected (maybe also because of the Jinxed and 10 luck and watching enemies fall to the ground when they try to hurt my little boy :D).
PS: And of course, no illusions about PvP.. I will just hope, they will cripple arm. ;)
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Best part about jinxed is watching PKers with low luck have their weapons blow up in their faces. Rocket/grenade/flamers bring the most lulz.
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Best part about jinxed is watching PKers with low luck have their weapons blow up in their faces. Rocket/grenade/flamers bring the most lulz.
Yep, looking forward to seeing it. :) Also maybe you tried with 1 CH, you can't have any player following you, right? Not like it really matters, because my friends will probably stone me for the Jinxed, just curious.
EDIT: I know, there is this formula for followers, anyway with my 3 CH char I can have two slaves or one slave + one player following me.
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Not really sure since they changed the follower formula, still says I cant lead a group of two when im following someone else so i guess you need at least 2?
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what is melee damage? ( the bonus)
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what is melee damage? ( the bonus)
It's melee damage... the bonus... of additional max. melee damage you can do
For example you have "Melee Damage" 3.
Spear has damage 3-10. But you dealing 3-13 damage.
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Update on Crit builds, my attempt ended in failure as apparently without better crits you just don't cripple often enough to be effective and end up just doing way less damage than the speed build with no real advantages.
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your builds sucks, you are telling to take heavy handed, and then to raise look at least for toughness, it doesnt make sence to make your criticals bad, and then to increase chance in bad criticals. If you gonna create hth character you gonna do it in 2 ways. One is in heavy handed way/fast shot way, in this case you will be the damage dealer, when you will take 3x bonus hth, and living anatomy even your punch will do 13-29 damage and it will cost only 2 ap to cast, and you will have edge in turn based combat, or you can try to be ultimate knockouter, then you can raise luck, toughness and better criticals, but then you do not take neither fast shot or heavy handed.
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your builds sucks, you are telling to take heavy handed, and then to raise look at least for toughness, it doesnt make sence to make your criticals bad, and then to increase chance in bad criticals. If you gonna create hth character you gonna do it in 2 ways. One is in heavy handed way/fast shot way, in this case you will be the damage dealer, when you will take 3x bonus hth, and living anatomy even your punch will do 13-29 damage and it will cost only 2 ap to cast, and you will have edge in turn based combat, or you can try to be ultimate knockouter, then you can raise luck, toughness and better criticals, but then you do not take neither fast shot or heavy handed.
"Your build sucks" yeah ok vederas like you know fuck all about this. The -30% on the crit table doesn't do much if you're not doing targeted shots because you'll never cripple anyone with fast shot ever. Luck 6 is only to take toughnesss which you need to survive playing unarmed, I've made characters without it and they are useless because they die too fast. 3 x bonus hth damage is a waste because 2 perks to increase damage by 4 which will mostly just get absorbed is a lot less damage than an extra attack will be. As for the crit build being shit I already said that yesterday.
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A question
What are the chances that an unarmed build can beat a big guns build?
At the end a good build to be a damage dealer?
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A question
What are the chances that an unarmed build can beat a big guns build?
At the end a good build to be a damage dealer?
chances are normal in specific situations, but it must be real time, and you have to wait for your target in house or somewhere were you could easy get close to your target, and then go piercing punch him to death, since it gives like 40-50% to your crit chance (dunno exactly), since you aim to head you get another 40%, 10% luck, and lets say 2x more criticals, 1x better criticals and you get 100% critical hit so in this way its possible to hit him to death.
But if you want to be a damage dealer my advice would be to take stats like this:
9 1 10 1 8 10 1
Traits: fast shot, heavy handed
Perks: 3x bonus hth damage, gain strenght, living anathomy, 2x action boy, with this build your each unarmed punch will do 13-29 damage, you can perform 6 hits in one turn, so thus you will do at least 78 damage per turn.
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^
2 IN is more than enough.
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In my experience making a hth build without toughness x2 means you'll die a lot and it's frustrating to play.
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2 IN is more than enough.
if you dont want profession, yes of course its enough then.
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nvm :P
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With the fast shot build, just replace it with faster hth since fast shot no longer applies to hth combat.
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Roachor so from your experience is better the damage dealer build than the crits one?
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Roachor so from your experience is better the damage dealer build than the crits one?
I can't say 100% because they changed the crit system, but for pve I'd say it's still a better bet to go with damage.
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well...
I wanted to ask couple things:
how are crit table changes related to fineese/crit builds? can you now onehit kill other players?
and second, is it confirmed that bonus hth attacks perk works as written in wiki?
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well...
I wanted to ask couple things:
how are crit table changes related to fineese/crit builds? can you now onehit kill other players?
and second, is it confirmed that bonus hth attacks perk works as written in wiki?
bonus hth attacks now works fine.
instant kills are possible just dunno about finesse, cause only idiots take it.
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vedaras what was the biggest dmg you did to get to the statistics? :)
and how does meelee char feels in pvp? :) (if any?)
be to gal norėtum prisijungt prie lietuvių?
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vedaras what was the biggest dmg you did to get to the statistics? :)
and how does meelee char feels in pvp? :) (if any?)
be to gal norėtum prisijungt prie lietuvių?
bonecrusher award is given for total sum of unarmed damage :>
Well melee characters sucks hard in pvp, its definitely not for pvp. Since you cant run to your target when you are targeting one, so in pvp its useless.
O dėl lietuvių tai nelabai prisijungt prie gaujos norėčiau, aš vault city citizen esu, tai čia mano kaip ir gauja :D bet jeigu ko reiktų jum tai galėčiau padėt be problemų.
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What about a sneak unarmed? You could sneak to your target and then kill it, so this "difficulty" of reaching your target would be bypassed.
Btw, unarmed/HtH means COMPLETELY unarmed (without even power fist/ripper/catle pod/something like that)?
And can a melee/sneak build work for pvp (sneak up from behind and then just kill the target with ease or something like that, referring to assassination)?
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you will still be visible from 3 cells away in the back.. no matter your skill
and ~6 cells from sides...
and thats less thanrange of sawn of shotgun.... so you might be in for some harsh treat while sneakin...oh and you are not aware if the other guy sees you or not
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you will still be visible from 3 cells away in the back.. no matter your skill
whats the point of this perk then?
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Silent_Death
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Exactly. I was looking forward for that perk.
But I heard they reworked sneak, probably because of those suicide bombers. If it's true, then they just screwed a valid and overlooked type of character.
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bump for an exact answer on this question
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Do fast shot REALLY works with unarmed?
I mean, in FO2 it doesn't.
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Do fast shot REALLY works with unarmed?
I mean, in FO2 it doesn't.
It did last build, since the wipe it does not.
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well i hope they at least make silent death work without sneaking, but if you attack from back.... taht would be nice, becouse well.. if a gun guy runs from you - hes back at you, and you chase... you get him while he's waiting for his snipe shot with a back turned your way... and kABAAAAAM hes dead, that would teach them to not run away and still make chasing meelee guy deadly, hell make it have solid sneak req just for the sake of it, but i very well hope that silent death will work
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To be honest hth is only really useful in PVE.
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To be honest hth is only really useful in PVE.
yeah, i could see that being the only place its useful.
cause being sniped from who knows where in RT PvP would suck due to PE and the fact you cant run after my enemy when you click on them. as so many have said many of times..
i like the HtH char idea. its a lot of fun really. i've just gave up on it cause i can't do much against combat only players.
which can make a HtH build boring to me.
but honestly i just started playing combat chars. i usually do the whole crafter taxi deal.
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i agree with roach, you won't get near anyone with an unarmed/melee build in pvp before they blow your brains out (in a fashionale way)
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Latest update, hth instakill crit builds work great and are fun as hell to play. PVP is possible if you are lucky/they are noobs.
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I was looking into doing a HtH build, and had a few questions. Assuming that HtH Evade works someday (it's at least marked high priority), and that it's either + 1/8 or +1/12 Unarmed to AC, will it really make a difference, against any non-sniper player to have the extra AC? From this thread http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=309.0 (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=309.0) it seems like it's more than likely that most players would have a gross overabundance that should all but cancel out even incredibly high AC.
For instance, if you attacked a heavy gunner with 6 PE and 100% HW , while you have 300% Unarmed and BoS armor and 10 AG, his chance of hitting you (when you're right next to him, as you should be) is 91% with 1/12 and 55.5 with 1/8, or 71% and 35.5 percent respectively at 5 hexes away. While you would pretty much be invincible if you were 23 and 14 hexes away, an HG isn't going to be shooting at you from that distance anyway.
So my question is, is my assumption right?
Is this perk not at all useful for PvP, even in the most ideal situation (1/8) or am I overestimating how much damage HGs do?
Am I even overestimating how much HGs put into their Heavy Weapons skill?
It just seems like this could have epic potential for fixing unarmed (maybe melee too if they decide to make it work for them as well) in terms of game balance without the devs having to rework the run + attack issue, but that the fraction of AC/Unarmed is just too small to do that right now.
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Well it's not working, but even if it did you're looking at a bonus of 25 AC if you invest 300 points into unarmed, which is about double the amount of skill you need to be effective and won't leave you with much else to invest in. Not to mention the high int requirement associated with that many skillpoints. But with 10 agi, dodger and evade that's a -40% chance to hit, wearing CA mk2 for the max ac boost of 25 giving you 65% total reduction, snipers will be able to shoot you normally from med-close range and miniguns I think still have the accurate perk which eats up 20% of the ac so minor help there. Probably help most against hth/ builds with low weapon skills required to be effective like throwing. Be great for pve too, most critters would rarely be able to hit you.
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Why do mini-guns have the accurate perk? That seems super counter-intuitive.
Oh well, I figured it was a long shot, if anything. I did manage to look into a build similar to what you talk about there, and you actually can put enough points into becoming a doctor (lvl 3), but you'll have nothing in science, which I'm guessing would be important for gathering the materials needed to craft.
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Why do mini-guns have the accurate perk? That seems super counter-intuitive.
Oh well, I figured it was a long shot, if anything. I did manage to look into a build similar to what you talk about there, and you actually can put enough points into becoming a doctor (lvl 3), but you'll have nothing in science, which I'm guessing would be important for gathering the materials needed to craft.
with high dodge you could disarm a lone super mutant, take his weapon, beat him down, heal him and repeat for easy xp.
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Dude,Fast shoot affects only ranged and trowing wepons,not unarmed and melle
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Dude,Fast shoot affects only ranged and trowing wepons,not unarmed and melle
This was made last wipe
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Ive been trying to look around but havent managed to find anything explaining the instakills,what are they and how do they exactly work in melee/hth builds
and do they include for example finesse (which i so far hate like mad on my gimped crafter/7cha slaver)
Interested in trying out hth build because losing days worth of gathering all the time is bit boring, and having alternative character to cool
with sounds fun.
PS* FA and doctor are quite recommended skills, but how about sneak for pvp ? heard it got somehow nerfed
but while im not interested in pvp only...i would like to atleast have a chance.
PSS* would a similiar critbased build work with melee weapons also, i used to like swinging super sledge around in fallout 2...though only melee
weapon ive heard mentioned here is ripper. If ripper is only viable later stage melee weapon then ill just stick with unarmed.
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Ive been trying to look around but havent managed to find anything explaining the instakills,what are they and how do they exactly work in melee/hth builds
and do they include for example finesse (which i so far hate like mad on my gimped crafter/7cha slaver)
Interested in trying out hth build because losing days worth of gathering all the time is bit boring, and having alternative character to cool
with sounds fun.
PS* FA and doctor are quite recommended skills, but how about sneak for pvp ? heard it got somehow nerfed
but while im not interested in pvp only...i would like to atleast have a chance.
PSS* would a similiar critbased build work with melee weapons also, i used to like swinging super sledge around in fallout 2...though only melee
weapon ive heard mentioned here is ripper. If ripper is only viable later stage melee weapon then ill just stick with unarmed.
The way instakills work in fonline is you roll for crit, then there's a 1-100 roll on the crit table. If you have better crit perk its 21-120 on the table and any roll over 100 is an instakill. Technically if you have 100% crit its a 1/5 chance, but the reality is somewhat different. I haven't got an intakill in pvp since the wipe, might just be unlucky on my part but it seems to only happen in pve. It's great for farming if you have toughness x 2 and lifegivers as with the latent unarmed crit bonuses you can replace the 5% perks with more useful ones. Haymaker with faster hth means 4 ap for an eyeshot, with no perks thats 15% from haymaker, 30% from eye shot, 10 luck and finesse adds 20% and you can hit quickly in rt. The bonus is better crit makes disarming really easy as most possible crit effects on arms end up with crippling blows. just make sure you have 5 str minimum and 7 agi for haymaker. Finesse dr bonus gets bypassed by most crits so its not really an issue, but your non crits will be for like 3dmg. If you want raw damage you can always use mega powerfist, it's better than the ripper but harder to find/more expensive. Supersledge has good damage and doesn't deteriorate or use ammo, but it costs 3100 caps from vendors. If you are going high damage melee forego all crit stats and take heavy handed plus bonus hth dmg x3 and living anatomy that's +20 damage, 5 of which can't be resisted. With a ripper you're looking at 5 attacks with 10 ap per 5 seconds or 3 sledge attacks. Ripper would be 35-52 dmg a hit before dmg reduction and sledge is 38-56, but sledge has knockback which can be pretty intense and disables people for the duration of the slide. Only problem is you have to chase after them. You could try a melee crit build too but I'd lose finesse as without the super high unarmed crit rate you just too many shitty hits.
As for endgame melee you have ripper, cattle prod, super sledge and i can't remember if they added it yet or not but super cattle prod is total ownage. Pretty much nothing has electric resist but BA and even then it's really low. Plus awesome death animations.
FA is pretty much mandatory for a hth build, once you get strong enough to survive in rt it helps a lot for a quick heal in battle. 150 is ideal, but beware the new crit fails which happen too often for reliability if you have 1 luck. Doctor needs to be at 210% at 21 to have 100% success rate at curing weakness. It's awesome for never having downtime but also a huge point investment.
As for pvp you need to be on psycho and other drugs to ever have a chance, lots of stims/superstims is also required. But even then don't imagine you'll be rambo cutting your way through the enemy, BG builds/plasma nades/ sniper crits can all drop you quickly. Never go for aimed hits in pvp because once you select a part you walk to your target, and if they run you'll never catch up unless you run then re select, so it's hard to pull off. I mean i do it just to cripple and blind people on my unarmed char but i always end up dying, I just like trolling pvpers.
Hope that helped you out.
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Ahh yeah thank you, it helps a lot for sure. Now i just have to decide which way to go for, high damage super sledge smashing does have its own charms,
but so does crippling pker trolling, im not really expecting to be rambo but with high crit and bluesuit i could always troll some pkers who lurk in towns by crippling
their hand for example.
Thanks a lot again, now i just gotta decide on the route to go for.
PS* do bonus hth attack and bonus hth damage perks also affect melee weapons ?
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Ahh yeah thank you, it helps a lot for sure. Now i just have to decide which way to go for, high damage super sledge smashing does have its own charms,
but so does crippling pker trolling, im not really expecting to be rambo but with high crit and bluesuit i could always troll some pkers who lurk in towns by crippling
their hand for example.
Thanks a lot again, now i just gotta decide on the route to go for.
PS* do bonus hth attack and bonus hth damage perks also affect melee weapons ?
Yup, anything that says hth is both.
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Latest update, hth instakill crit builds work great and are fun as hell to play. PVP is possible if you are lucky/they are noobs.
So this would mean a build with 10 luck? What about the perks, I know fast shot doesnt work anymore for unarmed.
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So this would mean a build with 10 luck? What about the perks, I know fast shot doesnt work anymore for unarmed.
Read 4 posts up it answers your question
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I ment traits and not perks sorry
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I ment traits and not perks sorry
finesse, small frame works good for hth
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Yeah i figured small frame was the way to go.
I'm trying jinxed know, kind of fun to play with a jinxed char :P
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Only thing i hate is the absolutely horrible FoV with 1 PE, guess you could always put some + points in it but its still kind of an waste for
unarmed/melee. PVP is just REALLY hard when they can be shooting from outside of your fov with a pistol even.
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Only thing i hate is the absolutely horrible FoV with 1 PE, guess you could always put some + points in it but its still kind of an waste for
unarmed/melee. PVP is just REALLY hard when they can be shooting from outside of your fov with a pistol even.
Yeah the 1 PE is horrible, but in PVP you should be the one to hit first. If you fight against multiple targets (with guns) you're going to lose anyway.
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The way instakills work in fonline is you roll for crit, then there's a 1-100 roll on the crit table. If you have better crit perk its 21-120 on the table and any roll over 100 is an instakill. Technically if you have 100% crit its a 1/5 chance, but the reality is somewhat different. I haven't got an intakill in pvp since the wipe, might just be unlucky on my part but it seems to only happen in pve. It's great for farming if you have toughness x 2 and lifegivers as with the latent unarmed crit bonuses you can replace the 5% perks with more useful ones. Haymaker with faster hth means 4 ap for an eyeshot, with no perks thats 15% from haymaker, 30% from eye shot, 10 luck and finesse adds 20% and you can hit quickly in rt. The bonus is better crit makes disarming really easy as most possible crit effects on arms end up with crippling blows. just make sure you have 5 str minimum and 7 agi for haymaker. Finesse dr bonus gets bypassed by most crits so its not really an issue, but your non crits will be for like 3dmg. If you want raw damage you can always use mega powerfist, it's better than the ripper but harder to find/more expensive. Supersledge has good damage and doesn't deteriorate or use ammo, but it costs 3100 caps from vendors. If you are going high damage melee forego all crit stats and take heavy handed plus bonus hth dmg x3 and living anatomy that's +20 damage, 5 of which can't be resisted. With a ripper you're looking at 5 attacks with 10 ap per 5 seconds or 3 sledge attacks. Ripper would be 35-52 dmg a hit before dmg reduction and sledge is 38-56, but sledge has knockback which can be pretty intense and disables people for the duration of the slide. Only problem is you have to chase after them. You could try a melee crit build too but I'd lose finesse as without the super high unarmed crit rate you just too many shitty hits.
As for endgame melee you have ripper, cattle prod, super sledge and i can't remember if they added it yet or not but super cattle prod is total ownage. Pretty much nothing has electric resist but BA and even then it's really low. Plus awesome death animations.
FA is pretty much mandatory for a hth build, once you get strong enough to survive in rt it helps a lot for a quick heal in battle. 150 is ideal, but beware the new crit fails which happen too often for reliability if you have 1 luck. Doctor needs to be at 210% at 21 to have 100% success rate at curing weakness. It's awesome for never having downtime but also a huge point investment.
As for pvp you need to be on psycho and other drugs to ever have a chance, lots of stims/superstims is also required. But even then don't imagine you'll be rambo cutting your way through the enemy, BG builds/plasma nades/ sniper crits can all drop you quickly. Never go for aimed hits in pvp because once you select a part you walk to your target, and if they run you'll never catch up unless you run then re select, so it's hard to pull off. I mean i do it just to cripple and blind people on my unarmed char but i always end up dying, I just like trolling pvpers.
Hope that helped you out.
Hmm I have made my finesse unarmed char and slowly lvl it alongside my recent EW crafter, however i decided that id like to try experimenting
with the melee side also. Did you mean reducing luck to 1 by the forego all crit stats ? heavy handed doesnt indeed do wonders to crits, however
wouldnt losing toughnesses for example weight too much in the long run ?
if i were to think of a high dmg melee build with 1LK and 1 PE it would end up something like:
10 ST
1 PE
10 EN
3 CH
6 IN
10 AG
1 LK
Heavy handed, small frame
Perks
<3> Bonus hth dmg
<6> magnetic personality
<9> HTH dmg
<12> lifegiver
<15> hth attacks
<18> living anatomy
<21> bonus hth dmg
Well i was just thinking that taking 2 IN away to get 3 CH and sacrificing 2nd lifegiver for magnetic personality allows you to have
2 mercs or slaves for your melee damage machine, to counter the lack of toughnesses. Of course those who dont like mercs
can just drop CH to 1 and pump IN but i like having decoys.
At lvl 21 i can still have decently enough of skillpoints, i tagged outdoorsman because im lazy to run...
in the char planner i ended up with 198 melee, 94 first aid, 80 doctor and 150 outdoorsman, i doubt i would make the stats like
that in actual game, maybe outdoorsman at 100-120 and would pump melee and first aid bit more. Doctor is 80 because i needed the 60% for LA perk.
*EDIT* this is still all only in the char planner, havent tested out making actual char based on these.
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Well it all depends, i tried out both a toughness/melee dmg build and a pure dmg with 1 luck and I found the tougness build just didn't do enough damage. The thing is you pretty much have the choice of toughness and the inability to trade with npcs or 1 luck and the option to trade. Even with 1 luck you can get crits from eyeshots and even with heavy handed i was getting 70 dmg crits with a reg sledge. You need about 170 melee max for eyeshots, any more is a waste and points that would be better put elsewhere. Mag pers. is a good choice as the problem with solo melee is that against multiple opponents everyone hits you right off the bat and you can only hurt one of them at a time so it helps to spread the damage around. The only diff between your build and my latest is i took 2 action boys instead of lifegiver/mag pers. To get 4 supersledge swings a turn, but having 1 pe means you always go last in tb so I'm more of an rt player with this. I'd take 20 out of melee and up your fa, 150 is pretty ideal in terms of healing done/cooldown so the closer you get the better.
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Roachor, will you tell me please the special, tags and traits of a HtH crit build?
You said it was pretty fun to play and really usefull in pve and that's exactly what I'm looking for.
Care to share? ;D
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Roachor, will you tell me please the special, tags and traits of a HtH crit build?
You said it was pretty fun to play and really usefull in pve and that's exactly what I'm looking for.
Care to share? ;D
yeah sure
my calculator is from tla so it doesnt have awareness, cautious nature is just a placeholder for it.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/29y0a3n.jpg)
4 ap eye shots with haymaker (80% chance to crit)
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Well it all depends, i tried out both a toughness/melee dmg build and a pure dmg with 1 luck and I found the tougness build just didn't do enough damage. The thing is you pretty much have the choice of toughness and the inability to trade with npcs or 1 luck and the option to trade. Even with 1 luck you can get crits from eyeshots and even with heavy handed i was getting 70 dmg crits with a reg sledge. You need about 170 melee max for eyeshots, any more is a waste and points that would be better put elsewhere. Mag pers. is a good choice as the problem with solo melee is that against multiple opponents everyone hits you right off the bat and you can only hurt one of them at a time so it helps to spread the damage around. The only diff between your build and my latest is i took 2 action boys instead of lifegiver/mag pers. To get 4 supersledge swings a turn, but having 1 pe means you always go last in tb so I'm more of an rt player with this. I'd take 20 out of melee and up your fa, 150 is pretty ideal in terms of healing done/cooldown so the closer you get the better.
Hmm i was also considering same but taking out lifegiver and one of the bonus hth dmg perks, having 2x female trappers with rippers sounds like a useful aid
for rt combat so im kinda tempted towards keeping the magnetic personality.
Even without lifegiver i will still get 185 hp at lvl 21
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I have a 10 luck build (without finesse) with
toughness(2)
more criticals (3)
bonus hth attack
action boy (1)
and it works great to be honest.
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yeah sure
my calculator is from tla so it doesnt have awareness, cautious nature is just a placeholder for it.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/29y0a3n.jpg)
4 ap eye shots with haymaker (80% chance to crit)
I think I might do a similar build but I'm done with finesse, I have sniper with it and whenever I don't do critical the damage it does is ridiculous...
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The reason i use finesse is because punches with 5 str don't do much damage to begin with, and on bypass crits the 30% is ignored plus you get the equivalent of 2 crit perks. I'd rather get 1 hit kills more often then do a few more damage every time, but that's just my preference.
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Yes but you bypass a lot less often as you would crit on 3x more crits.
I have both a finesse and a non-finesse 10 luck build and I can tell you that I do a lot more damage on the non-finesse. (taking I have 3x more criticals)
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It was purely a pve build, cripple them and keep smashing them in the eyes till you instakill.
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hi, i have never played pure HtH in any fallout game so i think i could try, since im still pretty new to Fonline i have serious doubts about my 'builds'
if you guys could give me some inisght on this thing:
(http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5300/hthcrit.jpg)
yeah im tryint to get the crit/instakill build, now, how hard it would be to start such char w/o acces to any supply like armors/drugs etc... i mean would it be much harder than trying any other "regular" char which could for example speak to npcs and use ranged weapons, and more important is this build solid? id ranther like not to realize "oh this shit aint gonna do well" after few days;P im not really interested in pvp, just some fun game, to be able to travel (almost) anywhere and kill most creatures
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you should be fine, but you might was to take 2 from int and add to cha so you can trade and get armour and stuff.