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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: gr1m099 on September 27, 2011, 12:25:17 pm
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Maybe this belongs is suggestions but...
I think next wipe should have the same crafting cool down as it does now. It makes no sense to me why it we have to wait 1:30minutes to craft a combat armor and then another hour after making a brotherhood armor. 3 hours between making each armor is ridiculous. For us town controllers and faction fighters the old cooldowns would take days or even a week to even obtain a decent amount of gear. I think they should keep it the way it is now after wipe so there is more fighting and more action for PvP. I also think it makes it a better game when crafting cool down it is the way now.
Or I think maybe the profession should cost more to obtain or require more skill points so you have to level the character more than 6 levels to get each profession.
PvP is so fast paced that what takes like an entire day or even a week crafting is lost in minutes. I think the crafting cooldown should not change after wipe.
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But what pvp faction "craft" armors, dude :)
I think every pvp faction. It is the only way how to get BA (yes you can loot it from your enemies but what if your enemies don't carry it? Someone had to craft it, anyway)
I remember when I lost like 7-8 BAs during one day. So like 20 hours of crafting (if you use one crafter alt) and you lose your armors in 3 hours. Personally I absolutely love this crafting cooldown until now I never crafted any armor and was carrying only armors I could loot or buy. Now I craft almost every day and you know what? I enjoy it!
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I think every pvp faction. It is the only way how to get BA (yes you can loot it from your enemies but what if your enemies don't carry it? Someone had to craft it, anyway)
I remember when I lost like 7-8 BAs during one day. So like 20 hours of crafting (if you use one crafter alt) and you lose your armors in 3 hours. Personally I absolutely love this crafting cooldown until now I never crafted any armor and was carrying only armors I could loot or buy. Now I craft almost every day and you know what? I enjoy it!
By god this is exactly how I feel about the new cooldowns as well. I actually made an Armorer for once in my lifetime.
A bomber too! :D
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... and then every single character in the "wasteland" (the wasteland where the people have almost nothing, and struggle daily for basic resources such as food and water) can have 30 BA stored at his tent - but then so will the opposition, so you'll need MORE, so the cooldowns will need cutting further... and further and further... :P
Apologies for slight sarcasm, but I think the idea behind the cooldowns was meant to try and restrict the availability of weapons and armour, so you didn't end up with each individual character being personally armed as well as the military of a small country (or as said "decent amount of gear")
Really, nobody should have 7 or 8 BA in the first place - you should feel pretty lucky if you've got a single copy of anything better than a leather jacket (though currently this is clearly not the case). You shouldn't be able to "pop out" a new top quality armour every few hours.
Anyway, though I think it's been agreed that the cooldown method doesn't quite work, and changes are needed somehow, I have a feeling that if the lower cooldowns are kept, something else will be put in place to try and discourage massive stores of weapons, ammo and armour (there's been thoughts regarding gathering in the dev blog, it may be that something similar is done with crafting) - so either way, it's probably not going to end up like you're hoping.
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I am in disagreement and I do not like realism in video games. I get the impression you are more of a roleplayer than a town control fighter.
I assume that you have not PvP or town control and do not know how irritating it is to spend days playing this game getting a good stock pile of gear to lose it all in less than 3 hours if you lose a fight. Or maybe you do I do not know, its my assumption. I think the current cool downs are good more town control and more day-to-day PvP fighting.
This game is built around PvP, it was originally called factions or gangs mods or something so it makes sense that it should be easier to craft items so there is more PvP fights and it keeps the game exciting.
I mean if we go by that logic "it should be a realistic wasteland" there would be no point in the playing the game because everything would be impossible to obtain and we would all just be fighting each other blue suit unarmed for a 10mm pistol.
I mean in a game where you die and lose your gear and everything in your inventory we should be able to make 3 combat armors an hour.
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When all the stuff is too easy to obtain, loosing it and winning it loose it's taste, and therefore PvP become less interesting. But when it's too hard to get, everyone is afraid of loosing it, which mean less interesting fights.
Good luck to dev to balance this!
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I think its good the way it is now and they should keep it that way post wipe its in the the middle.
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Personally I like "small group PVE" for my fun, but regardless, I can see what you're saying. It's not one we're personally going to agree on, as our interests are too different.
I think the main problem is that there's 2 (or more) groups of people trying to play 2 (or more) completely different games, using the same game engine and occupying the same universe. It's a balancing nightmare.
There's those who see "getting, building and making the stuff, levelling up etc" as the "actual game" (like playing Fallout 1 or 2, but with lots of quests / characters missing and currently no "endgame").
Then there's those who see "getting, building and making the stuff, levelling up etc" as a really annoying distraction, before they can play the "actual game" i.e. a fallout based isometric shoot-em-up vs other players, with all top equipment (like playing a team deathmatch in Doom, Quake, Return to Castle Wolfenstein or newer games of the same type).
Obviously there's crossovers, there's people who do both and there's other groups such as roleplayers etc, but if we're to simplify things a lot, there's essentially these two very separate "games" within the game, which both have different needs.
Regarding factions mod etc, as far as I'm aware, yes - the first change from the original "Fonline" (other than the language) was to add factions in, and it was called "Factions mod" - so it's true that 2238 is based on a "Factions mod", but whether it's still meant to be that, I'm not so sure. There's been a lot of changes, improvements and development to the game that is not purely PVP related. If you have a run around on an unaltered SDK version, it very quickly becomes apparent how much they've improved and developed throughout ALL of the game.
Ultimately, the devs may decide to focus on one part or another, or they may hunt for the elusive balance where everyone is happy, or perhaps even split into two separate games.
I'm completely in agreement that for what you want from the game, you're right about this suggestion i.e. "in a game where you die and lose your gear and everything in your inventory we should be able to make 3 combat armors an hour". However this spoils the other "game in the game" if that makes sense?
On the other hand :
[...]everything would be impossible to obtain and we would all just be fighting each other blue suit unarmed for a 10mm pistol.
Wasteland is actually harsh? Sounds awesome to me :D - BUT this would probably spoil your game just as much.
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I also agree with keeping the current cooldowns. Large factions will always be able to outfit their senior members in the best while others will have to work for it. The reasonable cooldowns allow start up factions to have access to decent enough equipment to compete in small skirmishes with the rest of the gangs.
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I agree whit the new cooldowns, Even now i hate when i lose a BA, so always i carry CA because its cheaper. I think that cooldowns are good balanced now, and i really like this way.
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Apologies for slight sarcasm, but I think the idea behind the cooldowns was meant to try and restrict the availability of weapons and armour, so you didn't end up with each individual character being personally armed as well as the military of a small country (or as said "decent amount of gear")
Indeed, it was and is even more too easy to mass unlimited stocks of bas, not only cooldowns should be bigger, but tier 3 gear should not be craftable. They should be relics of the past worth fighting for (like gauss pistols or power armors).
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Nah that's kind of ridiculous and not fun for PvP/TC.
I think tier3 gear should have a 300 skill requirement or cost more caps to make but keep the same cooldown as it is right now.
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Nah that's kind of ridiculous and not fun for PvP/TC.
I think tier3 gear should have a 300 skill requirement
That would be a nice way to promote alting and discourage players from playing a unique crafter character.
Still, im not saying its ridiculous...
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Well maybe 300 is too much maybe like 200 or something so you can add other skills. I mean you can make like 50 characters and have tier3 crafting at level 6.
I think having a higher skill requirement makes it to where you have to level a character to level to 15-21 before you can make brotherhood armors and other tier3 gear. Or maybe cool downs should be based on skill requirements like for example if you have 300% repair you can make 5 combat armors or something just an idea for the developers.
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high skill requirements are bad idea and even devs know it now and are working on mayor changes. Making alt with 300 skill takes three evenings and then you would crap BHs like before.
But presenting serious challenges in getting materials requiring cooperation of players (not just proxies). There are also lot more comfortable ways of getting armours (trading).
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The game where you lose in the event of death of all - tyne should be able to make 3 BA per hour. On the contrary. One a day. This world in which there is nothing. The devastation and ruin. Strongest survives.
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Indeed, it was and is even more too easy to mass unlimited stocks of bas, not only cooldowns should be bigger, but tier 3 gear should not be craftable. They should be relics of the past worth fighting for (like gauss pistols or power armors).
Then nobody will use tier 3 in fights so, tier 2 will become the present tier 3. And that changes nothing except there will be less weapons and armors, but same action, same cooldowns, same requirements. No matter what the cooldowns or requirements will be, big factions will always find a way to have enough gear so, again (same as for the bank interest), the solo players and the small factions will suffer the most.
Don't get me wrong, I understand your point of view: wastelanders should be poor and every good weapon or armor should be very hard to get. That is how wasteland should look like, I agree. But just by deleting tier 3 from crafting it will only make the game to have even less content and tier 3 armors/weapons would become tent furniture...
LE: But I agree that present cooldowns are to low. I had about 90 BA's in my tent with the previous cooldowns, so I can't say that cooldowns were that bad... My 35% critical chance miners never had a problem with high cooldowns.
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I think the current cool downs are fine and they should keep them after the wipe. The reason for them is to prepare for pre-wipe madness is what I've been told, but I think they should keep it that way for the next wipe.
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hi gr1m! but yes i like this also lol i am a new player and have not had the pleasure of crafting one armour every 2 hours lol but the 20 min cool down seems fair i mean i am a new player (grim is actualy helping me) and even as it is this game is very hard for new players to start out and takes time to become wealthy as it is...i feel the 1 and a half hour cool down would make this much harder
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While PvP can be more spicy as someone said. If you dont have armors to PvE, lets say against PvE patrols where u can easily get ganked FASTER than u retrieve your armor back by crafting it again, as in said 3 hrs, the game loses the point, only discourages from playing or encourages more alting, both BAD side effects. As someone already said harsher cooldowns affect loners, which are mouthshat on often in this game lol.
For:
Loners and PvE (after someone ganks u or simply get killed, you "should" wait 3hrs to do another BA -your option: ragequit/launch alt machinery - BOTH BAD)
In peaktime you certainly would lose your BA FASTER than retrieve one by crafting, lower cooldowns allow for continuous playing with one char/alt, and is less waiting-oriented, focuses on fun more
Against: sorry, cant find. its a game so why make things more unobtainable which in fact produces inequality loners vs faction members.
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My opinion is that destroys the game in 2238.
1) Bank interest. Never see him return. Caps - should be difitsitnye. The limited number.
2) Reduced the cooldown on the crafting and resource extraction. Defeats the purpose of fighting.
3) The extraction of 5mm and missiles theft. Simplifies the extraction equipment.
4) The ejection of avengers and gatling in the enclave. Simplifies the extraction of top equipment.
5) Ability to purchase ghoul with a sniper rifle at a price below the cost of a sniper rifle.
There are many more of everything that makes life.
Tightening of the game will save 2238. Pick up hardcore.
Survivors of a terrible vodyny must fight for pieces of technology. And not to be worn on Hamer and BA in the wasteland.
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My opinion is that destroys the game in 2238.
1) Bank interest. Never see him return. Caps - should be difitsitnye. The limited number.
So banks can be removed at all, as they have no use anymore. Limited number of caps - sure, few large Tree Control ape gangs gonna grab them all in no time, suffer noobs!
2) Reduced the cooldown on the crafting and resource extraction. Defeats the purpose of fighting.
At last life > items with lowered cooldowns. Now only the greedest hamsters afraid of wandering around with any equipment, people can enjoy playing instead of rage because of waiting and waiting. And more waiting.
3) The extraction of 5mm and missiles theft. Simplifies the extraction equipment.
Oh yeah, "teh broken economy" argument. Economy doesn't exist like two days after wipe, leave it.
4) The ejection of avengers and gatling in the enclave. Simplifies the extraction of top equipment.
Gatling has no use, and Avenger is strong only on paper or from 1 hex burst. And what's wrong with scavenging and looting dead corpses or killed creatures? I've never could figure that out.
5) Ability to purchase ghoul with a sniper rifle at a price below the cost of a sniper rifle.
Mercs prices are variable, depending on how many of them were bought by players. Cars are much cheaper than Wikipedia says, as an example.
Tightening of the game will save 2238. Pick up hardcore.
Survivors of a terrible vodyny must fight for pieces of technology. And not to be worn on Hamer and BA in the wasteland.
Hell yeah, let's get rid off any weapons except zip guns, rocks, spears and knives. Organised gang gonna win anyway, but (surprisingly) there will be nothing to nerf or disable then. Make your own server with your rules - for example on 2155 top-hi-tech armor will be Metal Armor.
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But because of this lots of people are leaving.
Its not about "HURR DUURRRRR...Make your own server or...".This server is made by gamers FOR gamers.So players should give their opinions about game,not just play and be happy with everything you will "create".
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... and then every single character in the "wasteland" (the wasteland where the people have almost nothing, and struggle daily for basic resources such as food and water) can have 30 BA stored at his tent - but then so will the opposition, so you'll need MORE, so the cooldowns will need cutting further... and further and further... :P
Apologies for slight sarcasm, but I think the idea behind the cooldowns was meant to try and restrict the availability of weapons and armour, so you didn't end up with each individual character being personally armed as well as the military of a small country (or as said "decent amount of gear")
Really, nobody should have 7 or 8 BA in the first place - you should feel pretty lucky if you've got a single copy of anything better than a leather jacket (though currently this is clearly not the case). You shouldn't be able to "pop out" a new top quality armour every few hours.
Anyway, though I think it's been agreed that the cooldown method doesn't quite work, and changes are needed somehow, I have a feeling that if the lower cooldowns are kept, something else will be put in place to try and discourage massive stores of weapons, ammo and armour (there's been thoughts regarding gathering in the dev blog, it may be that something similar is done with crafting) - so either way, it's probably not going to end up like you're hoping.
it's not like you can wear 6-7 BA's at once anyway...
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Why not stop wiping the server? Thats what kills the playing lust, continuesly starting from scratch.
The game at the moment is fair, I do not mind the crafting time, and dying to the critters, only done so once, with a large amount of caps and items, but that was my own decision to try and sell and bank the rest.
About the equipment, taking time to accumalate it all,well it's good... Makes you think twice before running into death and loosing it all, or joining a faction? ;) Like the Slavers,Mordinos,Enclave,Raiders or Brotherhood.
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Why not stop wiping the server? Thats what kills the playing lust, continuesly starting from scratch.
This is the first time i am reading this. Of course "waiting for wipe" argument is stupid (personal opinion), if you like FO you can play wipe or no wipe, but 90% of the guys that quited playing FO said they are waiting for wipe, never understood why, but that is what they say. Anyway, first time I've heard a player saying thit, I'll note it somewhere.
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Of course "waiting for wipe" argument is stupid (personal opinion)
People like new content, gameplay changes and new things. Wipe brings new content, gameplay changes and new things. -> People like wipe. If you like something, you wait for it.
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This is the first time i am reading this. Of course "waiting for wipe" argument is stupid (personal opinion), if you like FO you can play wipe or no wipe, but 90% of the guys that quited playing FO said they are waiting for wipe, never understood why, but that is what they say. Anyway, first time I've heard a player saying thit, I'll note it somewhere.
Well, I have never heard the "waiting for wipe" argument before? Most of the people I knew back then, left due to the wipe, and the players i've met ingame now, are some from that periode who have just started playing again, like myself. :)
People like new content, gameplay changes and new things. Wipe brings new content, gameplay changes and new things. -> People like wipe. If you like something, you wait for it.
I am not saying I do not like changes... I just wouldn't mind if they where implemented into the server differently. :)
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fix after a wipe:
- To reduce the experience of mutated moleratov, centaurs, etc. letateley;
- To make aggressive Enclave, Raiders, Remnant;
- Make a cd for a meeting Bos, Enclave, Unity, Caravans;
- Return the dullness of the psycho.
- Reduce the speed on the world map;
- Remove the NPC bullets in his hand;
- Do not enter bank interest;
- Return CD for Kraft;
- Return CD for gathering and extraction;
- Increase the price measure, now you can buy them at a price below the cost of their gear. It is possible to increase HP up to 200-250;
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you are some kind of masochist ?
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you are some kind of masochist ?
This will increase interest in the game FOnline, and not to the Counter Strike in it.
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clearly u havent been playing for long couse all those stuff u mentioned gonna lead just to empty server, or maybe this is ur goal ?
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On the contrary, when it was difficult to play was a lot of players. And they are always in contact with each other.
We can not allow the creation of fights scheduled. When opponents of a fully armed and ready to attack / defense. There should be a constant voltage, must be the effect of surprise, pretense, deception.
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wrong assumption at the beggining there were a lot of players couse it was NEW (in their hopes - promised land of fallout) game with a lot of potential, after some time unnecessary harshnes at some points, annoying mechanics (like CD) and not-newcomers-friendly factor - server started to be abandoned by players from max ~600 to 200 now
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This will increase interest in the game FOnline, and not to the Counter Strike in it.
Nobody wants to spend hours to get stuff so that they can do something.
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clearly u havent been playing for long couse all those stuff u mentioned gonna lead just to empty server, or maybe this is ur goal ?
Yeah it will disable some players from server, but not everyone.. someones who like it will stay.
So don't talk about "empty server", because it don't exist
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Nobody wants to spend hours to get stuff so that they can do something.
In order not to spend too much time on the extraction of a full drop. Now things are worth nothing as easily mined. Bring people-merchants in the wasteland and the server is filled with life. Each city will be an ambush and counter ambush. Constant skirmishes with the unknown. But not like now when both sides fully armed and ready for battle.
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What a heck?! Virtu, and what should the people like me do ? Stay and fight only at hinkley because of terrible long cd's on crafting, encounters etc. And u know , it's stupid to disable ability to steal from bos. I like this game because of lots of opportunities. U can farm, u can craft, u can kill others, u can steal, u can loot etc to earn money. If dev's remove it, then game will be like a typical chineese mmorpg, where your "coolnes" is equal to only 1 thing - time you are spending in game.
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ПС. Хардкора нужно добавить в другом но уж явно не в порезке кулдаунов на крафтинг. ТЫ же сам понимаешь что это тупо пустая трата времени. + это будет только способствовать еще большему дуаллогу , потому что всем впадлу будет ждать кд на крафтинг, просто 100500 окон и вперед.
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What a heck?! Virtu, and what should the people like me do ? Stay and fight only at hinkley because of terrible long cd's on crafting, encounters etc. And u know , it's stupid to disable ability to steal from bos. I like this game because of lots of opportunities. U can farm, u can craft, u can kill others, u can steal, u can loot etc to earn money. If dev's remove it, then game will be like a typical chineese mmorpg, where your "coolnes" is equal to only 1 thing - time you are spending in game.
All of my Objects with in the past been extracted by me in battle. Every fight was entertaining. Both the shooter and the opportunity to earn. Things obtained in the battle of value.
There is no point fighting. Stuff does not cost anything. The entire server is a solid Hinkley. You may ask to remove the full drop, in order not to waste time on training.
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I agree about the traveling merchants selling and buying gears however its need to be made well right now it would end like this. Player meets merchant sees 2345 cap, some armor and ammo he/she grabs smg kills the merchant and guards and walks away like nothing happened...
For the remants, enclave, raiders I agree too they should be hostile toward all except members same should be with slavers.
About cooldowns I'm ok with them as they are now, its especially helps out loners or people who want to be part of NPC factions only (there should be a way to find players who are from same NPC faction they should be kicked out from the NPC faction if they attack each other).
The travel speed is ok for me but it would be nicer if there would be way to make it faster but not slower.
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It seems to me that I am against the system. Do you really think that all the shooting for shooting this interesting? That 50 + BA in the tent each - that make sense? Hamsters in the people not to kill.
Waste of time if you need 20 to BA, then yes. But you're in the wasteland, and if you need 20 BA - be kind, spend time with. But know that the other, for it is time to learn how to handle weapons and will pk you. Exaggerating.
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The problem isn't with cooldowns but with respawns. Game needs a mode to play with 1 life now its impossible to do if someone attacks you and you win he wouldn't delete his char not even if he sees you deleting yours after death, I tried it once poor char of me died once by NPCs with the next I was able to kill someone but later he just bursted me in town so I gave the idea up.
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About cooldowns I'm ok with them as they are now, its especially helps out loners
agree.
Virtu, I'm not a member of faction which has 99+ mln caps on its bank deposite.And why the hell should i spare 2 hours to make 1 ba, which can be lost by any accident. i like this game coz of pvp, mass f*cking pvp, in >> top << gear. Coz i dont accept a fight when people use leathers and pistols, that's no sense of it, only if u're getting fun and trying to instakill someone. ANd what about bigguners? They're absolutely useless without top gear. Just imagine a bgguner which is rushing someone in leather jacket with flammer. that's ... mmm... s*cks
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---ENG---
All of my Objects with in the past been extracted by me in battle. Every fight was entertaining. Both the shooter and the opportunity to earn. Things obtained in the battle of value.
There is no point fighting. Stuff does not cost anything. The entire server is a solid Hinkley. You may ask to remove the full drop, in order not to waste time on training.
Some fight for stuff, others for whatever reason they think is worth it. If stuff is hard to get, players will not use it and there's going to be less action in general. If stuff is harder to get, after defeat players will withdraw faster because they have lost valuable and hard to get items and get demoralized easier. Currently you can lose 5 sets of combat gear and still be eager to fight. Fights aren't about items in the end, but victories.
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agree.
Virtu, I'm not a member of faction which has 99+ mln caps on its bank deposite.And why the hell should i spare 2 hours to make 1 ba, which can be lost by any accident. i like this game coz of pvp, mass f*cking pvp, in >> top << gear. Coz i dont accept a fight when people use leathers and pistols, that's no sense of it, only if u're getting fun and trying to instakill someone. ANd what about bigguners? They're absolutely useless without top gear. Just imagine a bgguner which is rushing someone in leather jacket with flammer. that's ... mmm... s*cks
I totally agree. Bank interest = not balanced. It is to be eliminated. And to prevent the next session.
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Some fight for stuff, others for whatever reason they think is worth it. If stuff is hard to get, players will not use it and there's going to be less action in general. If stuff is harder to get, after defeat players will withdraw faster because they have lost valuable and hard to get items and get demoralized easier. Currently you can lose 5 sets of combat gear and still be eager to fight. Fights aren't about items in the end, but victories.
The demoralization of the loss of staff? O_o
Maybe we should abandon the full drop as the other games? )
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Full drop is weird and not so realistic after someone is bursted his/her armor should be gone its immersion breaking that half of the body gone and the armor is still there...
Also melting should melt everything the guy had. Rockets should destroy all too.
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The demoralization of the loss of staff? O_o
Maybe we should abandon the full drop as the other games? )
That would make fonline pretty retarded in the end, players would start act like dumbasses because they didn't have anything to lose. They already do act retarded in bluesuit because bluesuits don't have anything to lose either.
Now stuff is fast to get but it's always faster to lose, so players will not give it away without slight regret even now.
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fix after a wipe:
- To reduce the experience of mutated moleratov, centaurs, etc. letateley;
- To make aggressive Enclave, Raiders, Remnant;
- Make a cd for a meeting Bos, Enclave, Unity, Caravans;
- Return the dullness of the psycho.
- Reduce the speed on the world map;
- Remove the NPC bullets in his hand;
- Do not enter bank interest;
- Return CD for Kraft;
- Return CD for gathering and extraction;
- Increase the price measure, now you can buy them at a price below the cost of their gear. It is possible to increase HP up to 200-250;
(http://jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/awjeeznotthisshitagain.jpg)
All these ideas were tested already, all were totally fail. It's a step back, the best way to make server deserted.
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(http://jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/awjeeznotthisshitagain.jpg)
pretty much ::)