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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Lordus on July 26, 2011, 01:17:07 pm
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Possibility of ingame reward from devs to long time playing factions (gangs).
On other servers, like Requiem, long existing gangs are rewarded in way, that they were able to create their own bases, locaten near, under or even in public cities. There is condition of some roleplay.
I know that 2238 wants achieve the same aim, but the way (TC) they choose would never work, if faction could loose their town because of horde of enemy.
So why not this aproach. There are few factions existing from first era, PK or not PK, and only reward was ability to create and choose their name (but this is for everyone, not for long time existing gangs).
Maybe you will doubt the reason we have to be rewarded.
1) if not, there is a lot of chance that we could leave this server forever, or our activity would be minimal. The community of fonline players is limited. Part of community test it and leave it forever, part of them would test start of new era, for weeks, months, then they would left again. Part of them, mostly PvP players, are playing until there is some fun. Part of players plays continuously, and they would stay.
Look at current statistics (cca 100 active players). Part of them are long time playing players, mostly PvP. Rest of them are newbies and single players. I.e. VSB gang is not mostly active on 2238, but we play on other server. There is a chance, we would not massively return, because the aproach to players on different servers to players is very different.
2) i can speak only about VSB, but since 2238 started, VSB gang thru madbrahmin.cz site brings hundreds of players ingame. Part of them (more than one hundred) were or they are members. Dozens were active for more than one era, and helped many of newbies to understand how to survice in 2238 universe. Help via forum, mumble, ingame help, ... .
I think that this is kind of reason why to reward factions.
3) Reward in some good packet could more enrich the game.
What rewards?
Well, just use imagination.. Bases, special weapons, or at least graffiti of most popular gangs in northern cities, that could replace existing graffiti.
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Yey... no :P
This will just get a way to moar whine and cry+rage for other gangs .Devs will have spam about "my gangs is 2 month here i wanna APA gimmmeh naow!"
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Lordus! You are still alive!
Erm, anyway - why not? As long as it's not about "teh itanz" (as Pertekst mentioned), I'm all for it - building in town available only for members or base map made by certain gang and added as one and only on whole server could tide people to their barbarian horde a lot, and make joining such unique factions a noble goal.
Special items - negative, there are already Enclave and BoS factions, with hundreds of "members", that sit in their hideouts and craft cool stuff.
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What about this..
Graffiti on buildings in TC cities.. Those gangs fought many battles for that cities, they deserves piece of art on walls near them they died.
Of course, players from that gangs have to create own texture that would be implemented into the game. This would mainly reduce the number of whinners, because you have to create own graphics.
It would be only cosmetic changes, but it would delight those gang players. Maybe new name of streets (locations) in those cities.. For 2 years those faction players supercedes a lack of content.
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Adding text/logo/graffiti on wall isn't that simple, my dear. You need to make new graphic items, add them to mapper, make sure they will work and fit, then redone whole city map, just to add "BLu3suiT PwnZ0rs are here" on the wall.
Dunno about changing streets/locations names, should be easier.
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I know little about mapper, but few of our mates are making whole new maps, including new graphics. So it is possible.
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No
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then redone whole city map
No, just create unlootable item / critter / whatever object that can be spawned by GM, and make it look like graffiti, then let GM spawn in on some wall, you will even be able to use binoculars on that graffiti and read whatever description it has.
Edit:
It can be done very easy, if gang member(s) will make those graffiti themselves and make sure it suited for a wall where they want to put it (just make 4 types of the same graffiti from NW to SE and from SW to NE, low and high), then just ask a GM/dev to put it there, and it can be removed/moved at any time when any admin online, it won't require server restart or anything, the only problem is:
No
He did it even without explaination!
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No
Everything have been said here I think. I would love to see the developpers close their community, talking with big gangs, creating new locations made by players in relation to their RP, giving skins to whole RP factions, giving special items to support these RP....
But here we are.
No
Well, from the team, he is probably the one who despite most the players factions, especially big gangs presents since a long time, but it is a good example of how this work on FOnline:2238.
No
...
Still, Lordus, it's not even for a "reward". It would just add more interest, more life, more RP to the wasteland.
But well, anyway we are the plague of the server, it should be made for loner and NPCs factions only, gangs can die in their shit.
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It doesn't matter if it is big gang x or gang y, it is just unfair that gang x can have a "reward" (for what?) for just staying a bit longer on here than gang that arrived 2 months later. Where to draw the line? You're making yourself more important than you are. Sure it's cool that your gang has a long history on this server, but so what? This is not a reason to "reward" anything. It may be surprising for you, but even if you "leave" because of the lack of "rewards" for you, the world keeps on turning, you know.
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When Surf Solar says no, I believe its just his personal opinion, hes not a dev, no offense. We got used to his denial of anything new and unfalloutish, but that doesnt mean that devs wont like it. On the other hand, gangs should earn those items, playing for a longer period isnt enough. In my opinion, first step could be a billboard somewhere, that after examining would tell you something about certain gangs.
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When Surf Solar says no, I believe its just his personal opinion, hes not a dev, no offense.
Yep, exactly. I thought that this was pretty clear but thanks for pointing it out. ;)
It's not that I don't like the idea of rewarding someone with some small stuff like a graffiti, but by no means is "lol I'm registred longer than you here!" a reason to reward anything. I could imagine doing some WWP (I hope this was the right term?) related graphics, a small poster or something in Redding or so, because that was one of the few things which actually worked, people had fun etc. THAT'S a reason to give a reward, not the longest activity/logged in time.
On this "dev stuff", you gotta realize that it's a hard job doing content, quests, dialogs etc. for the content makers and I can only speak for myself (know similar mindsets from the others though) that it's already tedious to quests, then you want to make good ones, and ones rooted in the Fallout universe, with its npc factions, towns, history etc. There is not much place for newly created playergangs, other than maybe one reference or two somewhere. I hope you understand that this is nothing personal, just the way people creating content prefer it.
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I could imagine doing some WWP (I hope this was the right term?) related graphics, a small poster or something in Redding or so, because that was one of the few things which actually worked, people had fun etc. THAT'S a reason to give a reward, not the longest activity/logged in time.
Well I surely agree with that, like said, the point is not really a "reward", but more the scars that we, players, factions, leaves on wasteland. For example: WWP project. But there are much more things which could be encouraged, and adding a location/NPC/special item/whatever related to gang X because the players from this gang have done some good RP, or fought during a long time in many battles, and created a map ready to use related to this RP. As well as giving skins/items/whatever to RP players/faction.
Example: the biggest PvP battle yet at BH, a hundred players fighting for a town, half of them or more dead (+mercs). Why not add some skulls here and there, tombs, or a little pile of rocks asking The Master to save the souls of those who died here?
Or a tag WWP on walls of Redding.
Or a special item "Law Book" given to the Lawyers...
So much possibilities, and yet, nothing...
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So much possibilities, and yet, nothing...
Read the second paragraph in my previous post, there I explained it a bit.
As for that WWP tag, I see what I can do maybe.
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It doesn't matter if it is big gang x or gang y, it is just unfair that gang x can have a "reward" (for what?) for just staying a bit longer on here than gang that arrived 2 months later. Where to draw the line? You're making yourself more important than you are. Sure it's cool that your gang has a long history on this server, but so what? This is not a reason to "reward" anything. It may be surprising for you, but even if you "leave" because of the lack of "rewards" for you, the world keeps on turning, you know.
1) Well, first i have to say something about you personaly, surf. You should change your nick into new one: "Surf The Everytime Objector," because you disagree or at least you have some point against every idea posted here. No offense, but this is fact.
2) I think that we know famous gang names, that were playing atleast for 2 eras.
3) If you dont know, surf, there are gang their members created many themes, graphics, comix, movies about Fonline 2238 content.. They already started their own roleplay project in 2238, it fails, because lack of fonline possobilities, enemy swarm and no help from developers.
But time is changins. We are waiting one year for wipe. Next era, with current logic, would be longer than this one (2 years?). This is last time, that devs could reward their most longer playing players and gangs by some kind of cooperation. On Requiem, there is a very close cooperation among players and devs. I just dont know, why developers dont want to develop other part of fonline, other than 3D graphics and faction scenarios.
4) Surf, i seriously think that something wrong is with you. I remember your "roleplay project" if NCR army: You dreamed your own gang with kind of roleplay element (but seriously, without any concrete idea what to do), you implement special NCR military base. After that, you tried to gather players on NCR. You forgot that every players, who wants (knows, hot to play,..)to PvP are already in gangs.. so it ends by fiasko..
On other side, here are existing gangs with players playing togheter sometimes more than 2 years, with desire to continue playing, to play some roleplay. They already tried it severeal times, but it fails mostly because rolepleying town in town that could be attacked every time with no penalty for attackers is impossible.
So here is a conflict.. your idea fails, because you did not socialized with other players to hold your idea alive, our ideas survives for months maybe years only in our heads, because we dont have so many influence to devs like you have.
5) No reason refuse of replacing "empty graffiti" by graffiti created by gangs, this refuse is pathetic, Surf.
6) Surf, be constructive now, and tell me, what ideas of support for (long) existing gangs you suggest? Dont you think that hold as many players, but even gangs (gang as an a society), in game and online is good idea?
7) My suggestion was not about reward for me, Surf, but for you. Reward (in any form) for players and gangs => more players would stay => more god power you will have! ;)
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Active gangs should indeed have a part in 2238 geopolitics and history, but giving them items? They are already many times more powerfull than the newer gangs, they sure dont need any help.
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@Lordus
About 4. - Surf got from little to almost nothing to do with NCR Army project, sorry to dissapoint you :) Oh, but yesssss.... he did have character in it, logged once or even (!) twice I think.
About suggestion itself - I don't really think that developers even more encouraging elitism (like game ain't full of it already) is good idea. So in other words I don't think that special gifts for chosen gangs will do the trick to keep people. More features and activites for all gangs that do or not control cities are good idea (however this topic ain't about it).
P.S.: Didn't you leave already, Lordus? Or you are about to leave? Or you did leave and came back again? I am getting all confused here all the time. One day I read about someone leaving forever the next day he's back. You could make up your mind - would be easier for such a simpleton like me to comprehend it. Oh, humanity...
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2) I think that we know famous gang names, that were playing atleast for 2 eras.
And?
3) If you dont know, surf, there are gang their members created many themes, graphics, comix, movies about Fonline 2238 content.. They already started their own roleplay project in 2238, it fails, because lack of fonline possobilities, enemy swarm and no help from developers.
And? We now have to give everyone a goldmedal because he drew some cool picture? We now have to interfer in favor of some gang which created some cool pictures and "crush the swarms"? And "possibilities" don't fly out of the blue sky, you know, they have to actually get developed. ::)
But time is changins. We are waiting one year for wipe. Next era, with current logic, would be longer than this one (2 years?). This is last time, that devs could reward their most longer playing players and gangs by some kind of cooperation. On Requiem, there is a very close cooperation among players and devs.
We already established that you won't get any extra treatment just because you happen to be longer registred than other gangs. Requiem has nothing to do with 2238.
I just dont know, why developers dont want to develop other part of fonline, other than 3D graphics and faction scenarios.
Read my last posts.
4) Surf, i seriously think that something wrong is with you. I remember your "roleplay project" if NCR army: You dreamed your own gang with kind of roleplay element (but seriously, without any concrete idea what to do), you implement special NCR military base. After that, you tried to gather players on NCR. You forgot that every players, who wants (knows, hot to play,..)to PvP are already in gangs.. so it ends by fiasko..
Nice to see that there actually seems to be something wrong with you as you like to talk about things you don't know anything about? Nice that you call the NCR army "my" project! I was 2 times involved in any action there - for sure I must be the leader and creative mind behind that!!11
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NCR army project.. ok, if it was not your project, than i apologize you, but that idea background was wrong from reasons i said before.
Without small exceptions (5 pvp actions), i did not played 2238 since autumn. Is that long enough for you? I tried Requiem server and i realized, that you could combine all of your Fonline ideas, with more cooperation with current gangs.
2238 is not Requiem. But Requiem is Fonline mod, with many entertaining ideas. Mines, remote detonators, sand bags.. Itemas that devs of 2238 are afraid of, works there good without any restrictions. Gangs are occupying cities because their underground bases, and cities lives! Because raiding gangs are afraid of attacking those places. Players could craft items with their labels and they are proud of it. Bases, that could be robbed, if you forget to turn off your radio, so you have to protect it by mines.. It works on other servers well. It would be compatible with with current state.
But it is not Surfs idea. It is not idea of any dev or GM who played PvP, because those GMs are not recruted from that community.
And? We now have to give everyone a goldmedal because he drew some cool picture?
Can you find difference between some picture and whole roleplay project supported by graphics, with political systems, PLAYERS participated in? Oh come on, dont be so pathethic you are right now..
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Im thinking the same as Crazy, having references about events that happened seasons ago would be really nice. PvE events held by GMs, massive PvP fights, funny situations รก la Xoen, anything that is worthy to be remembered. But on the other hand, I agree that these details shouldnt interfere with important stuff that is being developed and thus, they should be on the bottom of the TODO list.
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And Sarakin, what time consuimg is on graffiti of Vault Silene Brahminy that could be sprayed i.e. in redding city wall on main street. Or Broken Hills Hunters, or Modoc Militia, Or TTTLA, or BBS, or anyone else who participated in Fonline project one full era or more, who was active in TC or in kind of roleplay.
Those gangs whould have to create those graphics themselfs.. only devs would need to replace one object in city editor.
I would like to see dynamic graphics during or after town control.. like more time you hold the city, more new city owners graffiti on the walls.. (like dynamic infestation in Natural Selection 2). But everybody knows that maps could not been dynamic, so this would be at least compromise.
It would illustrate the history and current status of those cities. We are gangs, gangs are making their own graffiti.
On other side, if Surfs feel inferior, you can create your own statue with descrition.. I promise i would put there flower every day i will play..
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Yep, exactly. I thought that this was pretty clear but thanks for pointing it out. ;)
It's not that I don't like the idea of rewarding someone with some small stuff like a graffiti, but by no means is "lol I'm registred longer than you here!" a reason to reward anything. I could imagine doing some WWP (I hope this was the right term?) related graphics, a small poster or something in Redding or so, because that was one of the few things which actually worked, people had fun etc. THAT'S a reason to give a reward, not the longest activity/logged in time.
Weren't you rewarded with moderator function thanks to your long experience both here and on NMA forums? Or as you call it "lol I'm registred longer than you here!"? If it's too personal you don't have to answer.
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This is one thing you got to ask the ones who asked me doing this, not myself. If here would be a bit more of a friendly atmosphere I'd have shared a funny anecdote regarding this, but I think I pass on this one. :)
Also way to go comparing some very tiresome "job" with ingame benefits.
@ Lordus - you keep flinging stuff back and forth - just read what was written here. No one wants to repeat stuff thousands of times. "Rewards" for actual ingame projects, like the WWP thing is welcome. I don't see a reason whey there shouldn't be some poster or wallpaper on reddings walls with their logo on.
Rewarding someone just for the sake of longevity - no. Not sure what's so hard to understand there, but people always find reasons to troll/whine for.
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I agree both with Lordus and Surf.
A gang shouldn't get his rewards just for being a big one or a old one. Projects like WWP and gangs who really gave their countribute to the game in some way (Members active in forum, supporting of projects or involved in activities that can keep the game alive) should deserve those.
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I agree both with Lordus and Surf.
A gang shouldn't get his rewards just for being a big one or a old one. Projects like WWP and gangs who really gave their countribute to the game in some way (Members active in forum, supporting of projects or involved in activities that can keep the game alive) should deserve those.
So, gangs composed of bandits would get nothing? I'm sad, I always dreamed of "BBS" poster in the north :(
Ok now seriously: this game needs more cooperation between gangs (it was said many times that it's FOnline FACTION mod) and developers. Too bad that developers seem to be a bit busy/tired of reading constant bitching about everything, so considering all current circumstances, I find it very unlikely to happen.
As this thread is not "Hey, let's talk about Surf", I don't understand why you keep harassing him, Lordus. The topic is not about something that Surf decides and I guess that everyone can have his own opinion about it.
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Would be nice to give a personal graffiti to the best tc gang of the town (more time controlled in the last season) for every town, so this would give another reason to fight for pvp apes (as Wichura love call them), the graffiti should be designed by the gang and approved (not offensive, merging with fallout background etc..)
I cannot see nothing offensive or to much elitist in this, I know that my little gang never would have this honor, but I would love to see who was the more persistent gang in the town the last season, out of curiousity, and I cannot see nothing wrong when the pc choice can change a little bit the surrounding
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I fail to understand why being a "long time player" is a reason to get any kind of advantage. Even with a simple graffiti.
Doesn't the server go back to the year 2238 after every wipe? if so, then after every wipe, factions somehow "rewrite history", and the gangs who dominated in one era might not be important in another one.
this game needs more cooperation between gangs and developers.
This might be true, but I don't think we should say "it's the devs' fault" like it's usually said. I don't know what the exact opinion of every single dev might be, but I was a dev myself, I wouldn't bother trying to work on a factions-developers cooperation, when the playerbase tends to be so childish. The biggest and most obvious example that comes to my mind right now is when Redding was filled with mercenaries, using proxy and all that (please understand that this is not a post against the Chosen Soldiers), or when people gridcamp, etc. We can't really expect developers to pay attention to players when that is the dominant image the players offer.
Also, the fact that you talk about gangs and not about players sounds kinda weird to me. Of course, I am in a gang myself, etc. But being part of a faction and fighting in TC is not the only way you can play this game.
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but I was a dev myself, I wouldn't bother trying to work on a factions-developers cooperation, when the playerbase tends to be so childish.
Then why to work on a server at all? Put any words instead of "a factions-developers cooperation".
Also, the fact that you talk about gangs and not about players sounds kinda weird to me.
It was mentioned many times that it's FACTION mod (especially when a single player cried about how difficult is the game). So, why weird? And moreover, what impact on the server can an individual cause?
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It was mentioned many times that it's FACTION mod (especially when a single player cried about how difficult is the game).
This was the initial title because the faction system was the first change made on the original client/server system and it evolved from that point. ;) I agree with the rest of your points though. A bit interaction between playerbase/development is needed and we are a bit weak on that aspect. Not trying to pull a strawman here, but there is also to blame that a big part of the actual community in question is very "difficult" to communicate with to stay within the realms of diplomacy.
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Then why to work on a server at all? Put any words instead of "a factions-developers cooperation".
I honestly don't know, Kilgore. You do make a point, I have no answer for that question. Maybe the game the devs have in mind (and which they are trying to turn 2238 into) would have mechanics that could encourage players to "behave". In my particular case, I enjoy the game without doing stupid things and for that I am glad the devs keep working on this.
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Well, aside from the cooperation part, the big problem is that as soon as you will do something in favor of one players group, another one will shout that it's not fair and abuse and so on. So, again bitching received. But still I believe that some sort of cooperation between devs and players, in order to add/change some game content, basing on what's happening in the game, would improve overall gameplay, at least in long term.
Anyway, changing anything in the game demands time and work, so it wouldn't be easy. You'd make a simple thing like an update of the server and there would be another crowd shouting "omahgad wipe!!!!111" and few people posting threads "server is down", only to add some more work for you :P
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Well, aside from the cooperation part, the big problem is that as soon as you will do something in favor of one players group, another one will shout that it's not fair and abuse and so on. So, again bitching received. But still I believe that some sort of cooperation between devs and players, in order to add/change some game content, basing on what's happening in the game, would improve overall gameplay, at least in long term.
Anyway, changing anything in the game demands time and work, so it wouldn't be easy. You'd make a simple thing like an update of the server and there would be another crowd shouting "omahgad wipe!!!!111" and few people posting threads "server is down", only to add some more work for you :P
Thank you. :-*
I said all this through the course of this thread but people seem to be illiterate or just skim posts, so reading the keypoints again through someone elses words who knows what he is doing can never hurt.
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the big problem is that as soon as you will do something in favor of one players group, another one will shout that it's not fair and abuse and so on.
there would be another crowd shouting "omahgad wipe!!!!111" and few people posting threads "server is down"
Hahah, pure truth! We agree on that completely.
About this part:
still I believe that some sort of cooperation between devs and players, in order to add/change some game content, basing on what's happening in the game, would improve overall gameplay, at least in long term.
Now this doesn't sound bad to me, as it would be actually based on the in-game events and power struggles (the history that is written in every era) instead of how long certain gangs have been around. Like you said, if devs "give" something to a faction, others will whine, but things like statues or some other kind of monument (just to give an example) shouldn't hurt anybody as they don't give any real benefit.
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It doesn't matter if it is big gang x or gang y, it is just unfair that gang x can have a "reward" (for what?) for just staying a bit longer on here than gang that arrived 2 months later. Where to draw the line? You're making yourself more important than you are. Sure it's cool that your gang has a long history on this server, but so what? This is not a reason to "reward" anything. It may be surprising for you, but even if you "leave" because of the lack of "rewards" for you, the world keeps on turning, you know.
I agree, devs playing favorites with factions is a bad idea. Same bases/opportunities should be open for all factions. Faction X should not get special treatment/skins because they want to pretend(RP) to be unity or some other BS.
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I agree, devs playing favorites with factions is a bad idea.
Why? >_>
Because:
as soon as you will do something in favor of one players group, another one will shout that it's not fair and abuse and so on
?
Read 1st word of topic's name.
Reward
What a problem, it's easy to solve!
All famous gangs of 2238 server getting thier reward. Atleast a harmless graffiti.
Then some unkown for 2238 communty gang says:
"We want graffiti too, because we're cool! We did nothing, but we want graffiti, because... because we want graffiti and that's all!"
Are they famous? No. How to solve this problem? Call Surf, he'll explain everything to them with this sentence!
No
They start crying? "Mimimi. We want graffiti!"
Call Surf!
No
Problems?
Let them become famous, do some action on server, then may be community would know about that super-puper gang, and then they can make graffiti themselves, and then don't call Surf and let them have thier graffiti.
If someone will say it's unfair, it's thier problems.
And again, even now, with current version, without some engine tweaks you can make graffiti without changing maps or doing something with them, just use alternative, make graffiti art displaced on north-west or north-east from it's center, then spawn some object with this art infront of wall, and graffiti will cover that wall at north-west or north-east, without changing map itself if it's critter, and don't do any displacement if it's an item, because items can be placed into walls, the only problem is that it'll be invisible when it's out of your FoV.
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So gang A and B constantly fighting in one town for a long period of time will have to watch at graffiti of gang C, which doesn't play anymore... Seriously, I don't want to see Vault Silene Brahminy, Cajuns, The Dead Master's Crew and other inactive gang names all over the wasteland. It's one of the things I dislike about Requiem, just because some people try to be like Enclave (simply PK anyone anywhere) they deserve a special base and equipment?
About WWP and other similar projects, it's very hard to keep such project alive so maybe a little support from GM or devs would be appreciated. For example server messages is a good example of such help. Since these kind of projects are not PvP oriented (mostly), I don't see any problem with it.
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A) Maps are not dynamic. Every change of the map needs to wipe server (or am i wrong?). So i.e. graffiti needs to be imported and implemented before wipe, or we would wait another year (or more).
B) Because of A, if devs allow this, we need to put graffiti in game before next wipe. So we have to choose, who deserves, or who is able to put there own graffiti.
I suggested gangs, not individuals, because it would reduce the number of requests. I suggested long existing gangs, with enough personal substrate, so the graffiti signs would not be memorials only. But dont be afraid, that there would exist graffiti of non existing gangs.. Nobody would paint them.. (another limitation).
C) Why gangs should have get reward in (graffiti) any form from developers?
C1) They are betatesting.
C2) They are filling 2238 universe by missing content.. Small or big roleplay, even stupid play pn PK or ANTI PK is something that fills empty streets with something.
C3) Long time existing gangs brings and acumulate new players. (More players = more fun).
I.e. Vault Silene Brahminy gang is linked with czech very popular Fallout games site madbrahmin.cz. Most players dont know anything about Fonline, or even about 2238, but their first infromation was from this site. Only our gang (and in czech community there are a lot of another active gangs, like Hawks, or solitairs), has cca 130 applications since january 2010 (since new gang forum).
And czech/slovakian community is only minority in Fonline. There are a lot of other gangs who do the same job (french, polish community). I hope you dont think seriously, that most faction players are recruted on the NCR bazaar or 2238 forum. How they would find that this mod exist? I am not telling that this is only our (gang) credit, of course not, but very significant part of it.
C4) Gangs learn new players how to play this. Dont you realy think that players after fonline instalation know how to play, survive, enjoy this game? 90 percent of our aplicants write: "I want to join VSB, because i am dying too often in the wasteland, i hope i will enjoy some fun instead of pain in your faction".
So we give them advices, basic stuff, teach them game mechanism and some gangs, likes ours, demand anti PK behaviour..
C5) Ingame behaviour needs little feedback. There were too many battles in TC cities and no ingame (story) feedback? Dont forget, Fonline 2238 is not Fallout 1 or 2. There is not background story, in Fonline NCR, there was never Chosen One from F1 or F2. But Linnela, Surf, Nixon, Crazy,.. yes, they were there. They were diying in TC cites and there is ingame relation between their factions and the locations.
We have jet graffiti in New Reno.. But there is not Myron creating jet..
C6) Gangs would create graffiti by their own, so devs dont need to do many.. only check if the graffiti style is combatible with Fallout style and replace that part in the city.
C7) I see this discusion pathetic. On other servers, they allow to create own ground base under city.. to support roleplay. We are here discussing about few stupid pixels on the wall. Hello!!!!!
Dont ask why gangs deserves reward, but ask in what way they have to be rewarded!
D) Better orientation in cities.. Teamate: "Where did you see enemy?" Me: "Near BBS graffiti" Temate "ok, i know.."
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A) Maps are not dynamic. Every change of the map needs to wipe server (or am i wrong?). So i.e. graffiti needs to be imported and implemented before wipe, or we would wait another year (or more).
Like Ravenous rat said, if the grafitty was made an unlootable item (unlike scenery items are dynamic) it wouldn't even need map regeneration, it could be simply added by a gamemaster (with uncertain ammount of scripting it could be even made interesting feature, gangs might actually redraw enemy's graffitys by themselves).
Not sure, if rewarding large factions is the way to go (though i am all for the graffitys : ), but it would be nice to see more GM/Devs<-->Factions/RPprojects cooperation.
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Would be nice to give a personal graffiti to the best tc gang of the town (more time controlled in the last season) for every town, so this would give another reason to fight for pvp apes (as Wichura love call them), the graffiti should be designed by the gang and approved (not offensive, merging with fallout background etc..)
As I already said should deserves a reward
gangs who really gave their countribute to the game in some way (Members active in forum, supporting of projects or involved in activities that can keep the game alive)
I don't see how massive TC (pure PVP) can be a special activity that keeps the game alive. Is a function that gives gangs chance to get caps and fun, but others players not interested in PVP what can get from this?
Taking a town is a ordinary thing in 2238, and can't "make the History".
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(...) A) Maps are not dynamic. Every change of the map needs to wipe server (...)
Negative, sir. Server need to load new map version to apply changes. "Maps are not dynamic" mostly means that you cannot change map tiles or add/delete scenery without server restart (I think everyone with access to proper commands tried at least once to spawn scenery item and drop it on map. But it's simply ignored by engine and given scenery vanish after you drop it - nothing changes).
Before someone working on SDK shows up with ~reloadlocations/~reloadmaps - most of ~reload* commands was, or still are bugged. And it will be hard to find GM that will risk locking public server just to test one command :) And during CBTs such things are always forgotten, as they are never needed...
Aaanyway, <TL;DR> new scenery graphic doesn't require a wipe, just an update </TL;DR> Even if commands above works, i really doubt that we will change current way of applying changes. New content still will be added only on server update - it's just easier for both, players and devs.
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I don't see how massive TC (pure PVP) can be a special activity that keeps the game alive. Is a function that gives gangs chance to get caps and fun, but others players not interested in PVP what can get from this?
most of people playing fonline is interested in pvp and especially in the big one. When there were 60 on 60 battles people were very active now, when you barely meet pk or bluesuit in reno or mines not to mention any meaningfull TC game is dead and old players are leaving.
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So gang A and B constantly fighting in one town for a long period of time will have to watch at graffiti of gang C, which doesn't play anymore... Seriously, I don't want to see Vault Silene Brahminy, Cajuns, The Dead Master's Crew and other inactive gang names all over the wasteland. It's one of the things I dislike about Requiem, just because some people try to be like Enclave (simply PK anyone anywhere) they deserve a special base and equipment?
About WWP and other similar projects, it's very hard to keep such project alive so maybe a little support from GM or devs would be appreciated. For example server messages is a good example of such help. Since these kind of projects are not PvP oriented (mostly), I don't see any problem with it.
But Hawks will be good hm? Seriously, i dont know why these gangs cant have something in towns(graffity). By the way, if there will be something in town, it means that this certain gangs isnt inactive. It was said that gang which somehow contributed for server will have something, not gang which was famous bilion years ago
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It was said that gang which somehow contributed for server will have something, not gang which was famous bilion years ago
That's our orphanage! However we cannot into Tree Control, as we don't give a shit about it and still can't organize swarm after a year, so we are completely unknown and anonymous. Keeping newcomers in game (instead of killing them for lulz) doesn't count, since they don't shout "we XYZ strong! we kill all with big magic!" on forum. Anyway, can we haz cool pix on teh wallz?
GM support for gangs (giving special skins, items, spawning objects) could do the trick, if Game Master function is separated from Military Police function. Now, if you want to organize something like Fight Club for couple fellas, you need to ask GM and pray for no requesthelps during your event. And of course you can't tell anyone, because every action GM performs is abuse, exploit and unfair supporting gang X.
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That's our orphanage! However we cannot into Tree Control, as we don't give a shit about it and still can't organize swarm after a year, so we are completely unknown and anonymous. Keeping newcomers in game (instead of killing them for lulz) doesn't count, since they don't shout "we XYZ strong! we kill all with big magic!" on forum. Anyway, can we haz cool pix on teh wallz?
GM support for gangs (giving special skins, items, spawning objects) could do the trick, if Game Master function is separated from Military Police function. Now, if you want to organize something like Fight Club for couple fellas, you need to ask GM and pray for no requesthelps during your event. And of course you can't tell anyone, because every action GM performs is abuse, exploit and unfair supporting gang X.
Right now i dont know if your post is against mine or not
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Maybe because it's not against anyone?
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But Hawks will be good hm? Seriously, i dont know why these gangs cant have something in towns(graffity). By the way, if there will be something in town, it means that this certain gangs isnt inactive. It was said that gang which somehow contributed for server will have something, not gang which was famous bilion years ago
No I don't want to see any faction graffiti in towns. I thought it was clear that it was only an example. Factions are changing constantly, people move from one faction to another, I really don't know any reason why should any gang have this privilege.
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No I don't want to see any faction graffiti in towns. I thought it was clear that it was only an example. Factions are changing constantly, people move from one faction to another, I really don't know any reason why should any gang have this privilege.
C) Why gangs should have get reward in (graffiti) any form from developers?
1) They are betatesting.
2) They are filling 2238 universe by missing content.. Small or big roleplay, even stupid play pn PK or ANTI PK is something that fills empty streets with something.
3) Long time existing gangs brings and acumulate new players. (More players = more fun).
I.e. Vault Silene Brahminy gang is linked with czech very popular Fallout games site madbrahmin.cz. Most players dont know anything about Fonline, or even about 2238, but their first infromation was from this site. Only our gang (and in czech community there are a lot of another active gangs, like Hawks, or solitairs), has cca 130 applications since january 2010 (since new gang forum).
And czech/slovakian community is only minority in Fonline. There are a lot of other gangs who do the same job (french, polish community). I hope you dont think seriously, that most faction players are recruted on the NCR bazaar or 2238 forum. How they would find that this mod exist? I am not telling that this is only our (gang) credit, of course not, but very significant part of it.
4) Gangs learn new players how to play this. Dont you realy think that players after fonline instalation know how to play, survive, enjoy this game? 90 percent of our aplicants write: "I want to join VSB, because i am dying too often in the wasteland, i hope i will enjoy some fun instead of pain in your faction".
So we give them advices, basic stuff, teach them game mechanism and some gangs, likes ours, demand anti PK behaviour..
5) Ingame behaviour needs little feedback. There were too many battles in TC cities and no ingame (story) feedback? Dont forget, Fonline 2238 is not Fallout 1 or 2. There is not background story, in Fonline NCR, there was never Chosen One from F1 or F2. But Linnela, Surf, Nixon, Crazy,.. yes, they were there. They were diying in TC cites and there is ingame relation between their factions and the locations.
We have jet graffiti in New Reno.. But there is not Myron creating jet..
6) Gangs would create graffiti by their own, so devs dont need to do many.. only check if the graffiti style is combatible with Fallout style and replace that part in the city.
7) I see this discusion pathetic. On other servers, they allow to create own ground base under city.. to support roleplay. We are here discussing about few stupid pixels on the wall. Hello!!!!!
Dont ask why gangs deserves reward, but ask in what way they have to be rewarded!
8) Better orientation in cities.. Teamate: "Where did you see enemy?" Me: "Near BBS graffiti" Temate "ok, i know.."
Your fear of graffiti is funny.. Cajuns, Orphans, TTTLA, VSB, BBS, Hawks, Crazy 88, Chosen soldiers, ... Simply.. the gangs who played major part in TC during last and previous seasons.. If GM cant recognize them, it is sad.
Inactivity: VSB, at this moment, is almost inactive (like almost everyone in wasteland, who played at the start of current era). Rest of us plays together in temporary gang with Hawks and TTTLA. But after wipe, when our players will return (like every era. We have our own questionnaire and statistic, we expect 20 or more players immediately after wipe. So the argument about nonexisting gangs is in many case false. VSB is proud that it is part of 2238 from the first open beta.
How many TC cites we have? Six? So 1, 2 or maybe 3 new graffiti in each city. Oh My ....ing GOD! This will ruin the entire Fonline 2238! Cities will be more empty! Trolling will start on this forum!!! Newbies will be confused when they would enter into those cities. We would lost relation with our roots! NEVER!
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I know where you are pointing Lordus but I could imagine other rewards than graffiti, even it was only an example of a reward. We already have this "Don't mess with [faction name]" thing, do we really need to highlight a faction owning a town? Guess what, only a part of this server participate in TC others simply don't care. Should they be forced to read these graffiti? (they visit nothern towns as well)
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I know where you are pointing Lordus but I could imagine other rewards than graffiti, even it was only an example of a reward. We already have this "Don't mess with [faction name]" thing, do we really need to highlight a faction owning a town? Guess what, only a part of this server participate in TC others simply don't care. Should they be forced to read these graffiti? (they visit nothern towns as well)
Maybe not a graphic but a description in the chat: You entered Redding, town owned by VBS. Gosh
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My god, forced to see a graffiti, poor bluesuits... Well, they are forced to hear the insult their murdereds are shouting, and noone complain about that. You own a town, so it does makes sense you mark you territory, and if poor south bluesuits don't care... that's good. They can don't care as much as they want, as I don't care of what happen in NCR.
Still, I think the spirit of what Lordus is saying is wrong: this not a reward, and not for a particular gang, beta testing, or whatever. It's just some RP effect of what we are doing in this fucking wasteland, I would love to see our actions having an actual impact on the game, participating to feed a big background, the history of this post apocalyptic california. Instead well... There is nothing, and no scar of what have been done before.
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My god, forced to see a graffiti, poor bluesuits... Well, they are forced to hear the insult their murdereds are shouting, and noone complain about that.
Yes, but later they can find these murderers and then kill and insult them. What can I do when I think graffiti are ugly? ???
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What can I do when I think graffiti are ugly? ???
Take the city and hold it long enough to replace it.
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Some kind of hall of fame on this forum where " veteran " factions would be listed maybe their names would be linked to fonline2238 wiki , maybe some description about them why they are in the hall of fame or just a description about them in general. Symbolic , not profitable nor exploitable and i hardly doubt someone would cry about it but there is always someone who cry so just ignore few idiots. I believe it would be possible to agree on fair terms witch faction can be enlisted in the hall of fame , this just needs a deeper and better thought.I'm against any kind of reward ingame i have this feeling it wouldn't work well , btw requiem sucks deeply.
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I would love to see our actions having an actual impact on the game, participating to feed a big background, the history of this post apocalyptic california.
Chosen One was pwn3d in Klamath in 2241, during Tree Control fight, by OmGiPwNu guy with laz0r rifle (his last thoughts was - "where did they get laser guns in Klamath anyway?"). Fallout 2 never happened, Arroyo died from starvation, Enclave rules the Wasteland. What's wrong with that "having an impact in game"? :>
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Those graffitis, hall of fame or any other shit you suggested. For who do you want to make them? For other players? No, because they don't give a shit. I've heard about VSB, they pked me few times in Modoc back in the day - every other average player won't say any more. You didn't contribute anything but random pvp grindfest. No hard feelings about it but it's not something you get graffiti for. If you make some dumb graffiti for one gang why not for the other? Wiki page is enough of a reward for a gang.
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Senocular, you are cruel bastard. You tell these guys that are people, many people, that don't give a single crap about TC feature and whole "gang-bang improving Fallout universe" story. It's like telling kids Santa Claus doesn't exist. Damn you.
I never participated any Tree Control fight, never wanted to do it. But I can say I've done a lot for players, especially newcomers, which I helped at their beginning instead of pwning them for teh lulz. Graffiti on NCR's walls isn't necessary to me to feel satisfied, as I don't like NCR at all.
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Those graffitis, hall of fame or any other shit you suggested. For who do you want to make them? For other players? No, because they don't give a shit. I've heard about VSB, they pked me few times in Modoc back in the day - every other average player won't say any more. You didn't contribute anything but random pvp grindfest. No hard feelings about it but it's not something you get graffiti for. If you make some dumb graffiti for one gang why not for the other? Wiki page is enough of a reward for a gang.
For you, VSB mean "random gang of pVP-Tc apes who PKes me". For me, it is the gang with which I have fought many years in many battle and several diffrent alliance, for Rogues it mean one of their major ennemy against who they fought in many cities.
Fact that one gang X manged to keep town Y during long time and make it live is part of the history in this game, but nothing show it. It would be good if it was the case. Cause the fights, alliances, diplomacy, tries to make a town "safe", are the history of this game, and not a "choosen one who pown enclave".
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Please allow me to ask again - does the server not jump back to the year 2238 when wiped?
If so, how can actions made by players in past seasons add to the history of the game in the current season? If the server does go back to 2238 with each wipe then it works in a way similar to the myth of the "eternal return" which, according to Mircea Eliade, ancient cultures with strong religious thoughts had.
Eternal return:
With the celebration of the New Year, the people "travel" to the primal, mythical moment in which the gods created the world. The world is then "created again", from scratch. After the New Year rituals, "normal", mundane time starts running again, until the end of the year.
FOnline server:
The wipe cleans the game world completely and makes the server jump back to the original year (2238). All actions done by players are erased, and everyone has to start again.With every new wipe, history has to be written again, so making graffiti, monuments, etc., about past actions make no sense:
So gang A and B constantly fighting in one town for a long period of time will have to watch at graffiti of gang C, which doesn't play anymore...
So in order to implement content related to the "scars" left on the world by players, a cooperation between players and developers (like Kilgore said) would be needed to discuss about what exactly should be implemented. And this would have to be done almost constantly and new content should be erased with each wipe.
tl;dr: add stuff not because of how long certain gangs have been around, but because of their actions during the current season, erase it all with each wipe. Would be cool, would be interesting, but would require a lot of work and a tight and reliable devs-players cooperation (maybe impossible with the current playerbase), would bring rage, trolling, flames.
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Please allow me to ask again - does the server not jump back to the year 2238 when wiped?
Yes, It does.
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For you, VSB mean "random gang of pVP-Tc apes who PKes me". For me, it is the gang with which I have fought many years in many battle and several diffrent alliance, for Rogues it mean one of their major ennemy against who they fought in many cities.
Make a poll then, to show who are PvP-apes that would sell their mother to win Tree Control battle, and who are NCR woodsmans, that don't give a shit about whole monkey business. Even if it don't change anything, will be interesting to see the results :>
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Oh great, I want to reply to all concerns, don't even know where to start, let's try (sorry for memory quotes):
Game needs more factions-developers cooperation.
Yeah, I know we suck at communication lately, I can blame myself for it, last year was crazy for me in real life (if that's an excuse:) ).
But, to comment this, it also should say that it needs more factions-gms cooperation, and gms-devs cooperation. As for the first one, could be problematic, sometimes gm may fall into 'faction affiliation' trap, then it's gonna be smashed cruelly by others.
GMs function needs to be separated from Military Police
This is a bit like how we envisioned it at the start. I'd encourage every GM to abandon their military duties from time to time :>
Graffitis
Ok, shouldn't be THAT hard tech-wise, as mentioned (special item).
Reward
That's where it may be difficult, I guess danger of GMs being viewed by community for 'favoring' one faction over another is iminent. But then, sometimes they are hated by some part of community anyway ;)
Bases in cities
We haven't discussed such approach so far, but we would like to have that multiple bases per faction anyway. And then, option to make it 'publicly' visible (you know, like making new settlement) could be implemented. This could of course make the original fallout cities even more empty, and the factions world would be very separated from fallout world, hence the idea to somehow connect a gang with some shithole like Den, Klamath is tempting.
Roleplaying an Enclave
Yeah, I'd much rather see gangs roleplaying the...well, gangs, than to become self-proclaimed representatives of NPC factions. On the other hand, npc factions are not so-alive currently (long time ago we envisioned them as being run by GMs).
gangs composed of bandits would get nothing?
I don't understand what's wrong with being bandit in fallout world:)
I fail to understand why being a "long time player" is a reason to get any kind of advantage
Agreed on that, but it's not about being long time player (one could say - no lifer:) ). It's about being a big part of community.
I know that 2238 wants achieve the same aim, but the way (TC) they choose would never work, if faction could loose their town because of horde of enemy
Wouldn't it be funny if gang would be able to capture a town for longer period of time, profiting from it, and expose itself to a danger of being defeated on that place (but not in one quick battle)?
But well, anyway we are the plague of the server, it should be made for loner and NPCs factions only, gangs can die in their shit.
No, you're not the plage, rather a 'side effect' of a feature we implemented long time ago, when we didn't even think that gangs would be so important;) It turned out to be damn important - we often repeat that we would like to finally focus on NPCs factions, not because we hate gangs, but because we're feeling sorry for NPCs factions, that gangs are taking our time we could use to implement something for them;) (TC instead of factions scenarios for example).
factions-developer-gms communication (re-visited)
Well, now when I think of it again, the idea that faction could bring some custom stuff into fonline (supervised by GMs/devs) world is very similar to various RP projects. I do see a hope for that though - big gangs are rather well organized, shouldn't suffer from the trolls that would certainly appear to spoil their fun:)
PS.
Hope my answer is not too chaotic, to summarize it, what get my attention is:
- public location for a gang
- giving more emphasis on TC - harder to re-take the city, once taken - longer in hands of a gang
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Thank you Scypior for your reaction.
I think that factions (gangs) should have possibility to take and hold city, but also a motivation. If i look from perspective of devs, who dont have time to spare, the whole TC, empty cities problems and challenges could be solved by current or planned features.
I.e., i heard that devs plan caravans, like in F1 or F2. Why not try this model:
Caravans would travel (also) among TC locations. After one trip, you (player) would get reward (caps,...). If to any TC city would arrive certain quantity of players with caravans, they (TC holding gang) would get chance to join special caravan trip purposed for factions only. If they would survived, they would get some PvP stuff.
The number of this special team caravan quests would be regulated by devs (setting adequate level of
caravans with players) and by TC holding gangs.. If the gang could attract players, so they would have more reasons to visit the TC city, TC holding gang would profit from that.
Note that this suggestion is only example of the idea, idea of connection between single one player and player driven factions.
In Requiem server, there is a kind of repetable "team quest" that brings you stuff (even rare) for PvP. It is located near Cathedral, where you call by radio support of Enclave or Brotherhood. After several minutes, that faction arrives, but in hostile mood (NPCs are spawned and attacks everyoen on map). If you survive, car with stuff arvies and you can take stuff from that car. You can use mines and C4 to protect yourself, other players and gangs can attack you (and they often do). It is different way how to get stuff for PvP. From my point of view, similar system, related to interaction with regular players woud be motivation for factions to care more about city, than to destory them.