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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Trokanis on June 19, 2011, 03:09:37 am
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Well it's way too late to start a list of people we know who have quit playing. And I know so few people care, mostly because they don't understand that the loss of more players means the death of a game. This fact is something that is a constant in every game anywhere. Two more active players are gone. I don't think I'm gonna fully quit but I'm pretty sure I won't be back til wipe.
The Cause. We were out on mid lvl characters. Headed home after an hour of fun, had a person drop in, one single person with a laser rifle could shoot 4 times in a round, was able to heal "I assume with a super stim" and still move/shoot 3 times. Now I know this isn't like a hacked build it's just a jacked up drugged out pk build. The problem is unless you're the same 'type' of build you get owned. Then to TOP this all, one of managed to get away, moved into an entirely new zone and got pulled into that SAME encounter, and man was he jumped on like a fat man chasing a cupcake, not sure how either cause our bodies were on the other side of the map and he spawned right hand middle and ran as fast as he could. 4 shots dead... So after losing another hours worth of work they're gone.
Many people don't play this game for the PvP aspect. But EVERYONE of them is punished by it...
One of the captions under the FOnline pic at the top of the forums says "Everything else is dead or dying." And every day it becomes more true for the game itself...
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Many people don't play this game for the PvP aspect.
If you don't play for PVP then why do you play? To kill molerats and hunt ghouls? If you don't want to PVP you can always just stay in the hub and roleplay a hub villager. :D But... I think 95% of us play for pvp and harsh, open loot world.
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We play for the other things in this game. You only see farming mole rats. We see the quests, 'more are coming' the exploration, the adventure of taking on places like the Glow, and the new LA Tower whenever it hits. Of roleplaying trying to build in the wastes. If they added the feature of building your own base hell I'd be doin that, or putting together our own cars from scaving. Then there's this feature oh god what is it people don't play it much, what was it called, oh yeah TC where players actually expect to be shot at. Full loot drop while wasting low lvls is WAY beyond boring to my friends and I. We don't need to get our jollies by making ourselves feel powerful by taking out weaker targets. We take 3 people and go in to greater deathclaw caves and enjoy the thrill of the fight.
And really I know that some people enjoy that 'WoW style let's take our capped toons and sit around low areas and kill all the lowbies and npcs yay fun.' game play. But after every wipe, once the ubers are done lvling in a day and tc'n for 2 days they turn to wiping out lowbies. And every time the population drops and drops, and becomes nothing until next wipe.
The definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. No matter how much is added, the core dynamic is what kills this game world.
http://www.rookie.name/fonline/playerStats.php?r=year&s=1308423150&ts=0&ar=0&step=12
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Trokanis i think you are wrong, the game is dying, BECAUSE WIPE IS NOT HAPPENING, this game is harsh, it must be harsh.
We need a new update with funny new thinks, then people will come again, most of the players that left the game still visiting the forum periodically to see if wipe comes.
If there are other guys lefting the game because "it is too harsh and unfair", they dont deserve to be here.
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The game was never meant to appeal only to the PvP crowd. At best, it is one part of it, not the whole experience.
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The game was never meant to appeal only to the PvP crowd. At best, it is one part of it, not the whole experience.
The Wipe is 'part' of it, but the abuse wrought on the players who want to do the many other parts of this game is a large factor. In the cases of many of my friends and the people we met in our gang and later over the last 2 years, they left for that reason.
I'm not stating this because I think pvp should go away, hell if you read my suggestion that's the last thing I want. But some form a regulation wouldn't hurt.
There is a difference between Harsh and one sided abuse. This game has become you HAVE to be a pk build farm up to lvl 21 get hyped on drugs and pray you don't get jumped by more than 2 people. Most pk builds can't even talk to quest givers or merchants, that takes away 70% of the rest of the game. Sure the fallout universe is 'harsh' but there was always a Limit that's why that universe is Fun.
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=17070.0
There are threads most recent with people who are starting up the game for the first time, that are already frustrated or even gone. Most replies are stick with it, you'll get used to losing all the time. Yeah that doesn't sound like a fun idea, playing a game just cause you got used to losing all your stuff all the time? Seriously? One of those is, 'don't think of the gear as anything other than crap.' For some people that's all they can hope to hold onto. And if you get higher gear you sure as hell aren't gonna take it out of your tent, cause it's gonna be gone.
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Well sadly Trokanis is right its not fun if a new lvl1 guy finally gets a 12mn pistol and a jacket then he gets in an enc and he is dead without a chance.
In Fallout there was load and save which helped a lot here we can't have that so only option is running away but its just not possible for an lvl1 guy to run away from a strong enemy.
Also though PvP is a big part of Fonline its something I personally don't like I prefer simply team plays in PvE if it should be about the fighting but I would prefer going around doing quests bad thing that most player don't care about the RPG aspect they play it like an isometric Queke: A player -> I shot.
This make doing quest in TC towns quite hard.
Still even if its like this I still like this game though if I would start today without any prior experience toward Fonline I would probably quit like most of the new guys.
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The game was never meant to appeal only to the PvP crowd. At best, it is one part of it, not the whole experience.
I though its was faction mod :P then its developed for mostly for pvp. Like in normal fallout fight, run or die you cant talkover raiders ;p
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Like in normal fallout fight, run or die you cant talkover raiders ;p
I beg to differ (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Garl).
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Play Fallout 2 or learn to make a proper build, those are your choices. You can play the game with a 25-30% crippler and have fun with the pvp and rp. You really can't expect to be better than a guy that tried over 20 builds in pvp by now, is like trying to teach a teacher. In Fonline death is certain no matter what build you own (maybe except apk gangs, they usually travel/play in herds), the difference is made by the the player's will and devotion. Most of them quit crying, some of them try to get better with every build and then, get even.
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I beg to differ (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Garl).
And yes sure usually Garl is in every raiders encounter even non Khans clan raiders :D
Sad thing he live around 2161 now he will be too old (if he is alive :D) to make anything than sit in his cave :)
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You are mad that a pvp build has an advantage over a nonpvp build in pvp? Really?
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we need some non combat skill guns
like zapper for science, wrench for repair, spear for ODM
or some else
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Losing an hour of farming loot is not fun, what I don't get is why you would be carrying so much stuff at once.
Make frequent stash drops, avoid well-trodden paths.
Carry a few frags to knock down PvPers/go for their arms.
Yes, some players are one-dimensional children. Do you have a time-zone/hunting pattern that puts you in frequent contact with these people?
I've had a handful of run-ins with PvP specs in a year, and I go all over the map.
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Losing an hour of farming loot is not fun, what I don't get is why you would be carrying so much stuff at once.
Make frequent stash drops, avoid well-trodden paths.
So now it's spend 10 minutes or more with a non-outdoorsman char to get away from the 'well-trodden paths' then make a tent walk around and be sure to after every encounter walk back to your tent spending several minutes to and from, drop you gear, rinse/repeat? Then after you have some nice stuff carry it to town PRAY that you don't get jumped on the way, or shop shot in town, or pick pocketed clean while trying to talk to the vender? Yeah that sounds like fun over and over and over.
Yoz it's been stated that this isn't supposed to be a PvP dominate game. That is just one part of the game.
I'm not mad that they have the advantage, since I have the advantage of not needing to have 50 alts to get a job done. I'm speaking for the Frustrated players, me included that are tired of trying to do the Other parts of the game and being constantly struck by the whims of the passing pk'r. It may be a scary thought but there are actual people on the other side of those characters getting abused at low lvls by the bored pks and lulz seekers.
And Perteks this is more than just a faction mod, there is supposed to be more going on than just one side vs the other. That's how the Fallout universe works.
Zuhardu, so you're saying conform or quit? That's more of a WoW thing not a Fallout thing. As Surf said, this isn't supposed to be JUST about pvp. And really even with a 30% cripple build you short change your character to the other parts of the game, and in the end it just becomes you kill everyone else just in 'case' they're trying to kill you, possibly screwing over another new player. That kind of circle of destruction leads to the same issue we already have. People leaving.
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In my experience, the majority of new players that quit are the ones that don't know anything else to do other than shovel brahmin shit, they have not obtained a tent yet, and have a crappy build.
The problem isn't that their build isn't a "PvP-only build", their build lacks the necessities of playing; they, for example, might have 5 Luck, or 5 Endurance, or 4 Charisma, or multiple combat skills, or have a skill like Barter tagged.
Of course, there are many knowledge resources out there, but obviously a lot of new players do not read them. Laziness might be the reason for some, but others are just ignorant of how to get the information. I'm glad to see that the developers put a note about Opera's character planner as one of the headlines, though.
There needs to be more information, for example through dialogue, in the actual game. Almost every player that is starting talks to the NPCs in the three respawn points. These NPCs could give more tips on how to start, with still keeping the environment of the game intact. Something simple like "Oh, by the way, some wastelander was able to put up a decent tent using 10 or so brahmin hides he found...". Might be a bad example, but the point is there needs to be more tips in the actual game.
Speaking of brahmin hides, the most populated protected town is NCR, but around NCR, new players have a very, very difficult time obtaining brahmin hides. Okay, they read the wiki, and know how to get brahmin hides, but where are they? There are encounters on tiles bordering NCR that do have brahmin in them, but, at least for me, these encounters are quite rare. There needs to be more frequent brahmin encounters in towns closest to the three original spawn points. There are tons of brahmin near Modoc, but a new player spawning in NCR isn't going to know that, and isn't going to suffer to get it. They'll just quit.
Traders could also provide more brahmin hides, as a way to get them without having to use combat skills that most (unless they are unarmed) new players have almost none of.
An updated in-game list of commands would also be convenient, or at least in the F1 menu, link to the wiki's page.
This next idea might be a little odd, but there might also be a "random tip" as the game is on the title screen before you log in, similar to F3 and NV (except not during loading times, since this game doesn't take nearly as much RAM to load). It could be on by default, but easily be turned off in FOconfig.
Many people find the current travel speed to be very boring, but that will increase post-wipe, at least. And for the problem of encounters the same person X amount of times, I agree there should be something that let's you not encounter them on the same tile/encounter until X amount of minutes have passed. And since the world map speed is going to increase, the time you are on one tile will decrease, making this less of a problem post-wipe.
Just some of the ideas on the top of my head that I thought of to help noobs not ragequit so easily, and actually try to enjoy the beginning of the game.
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Yoz it's been stated that this isn't supposed to be a PvP dominate game. That is just one part of the game.
I'm not mad that they have the advantage, since I have the advantage of not needing to have 50 alts to get a job done. I'm speaking for the Frustrated players, me included that are tired of trying to do the Other parts of the game and being constantly struck by the whims of the passing pk'r. It may be a scary thought but there are actual people on the other side of those characters getting abused at low lvls by the bored pks and lulz seekers.
Do you know what I am tired of? I am tired of trying to pk and constantly having to do the other parts of the game like repair, trade, farm, even craft... CRAFT! I am sick and tired of having to rely on the whims of the random crafter who doesn't craft and sell the things I want when I need them. It may be a scary thought, but there are actual people on the other side playing for lulz who are low on ammo because of lazy crafters.
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Dishonest Abe, I agree completly with this, with my first char I had to rely on Laser Tribal to get a tent.
Plus, there should be a couple more FLC banks, because for players who spawn in Vault City have a hard time living when they die and lose all their stuff.
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There is an flc in VC. Get a daypass or become a citizen.
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Abe, a well informed slightly better built character is gonna make as much difference to a new player as a 10mm pistol and a desert eagle. You seem to be missing the point, the builds are less of the problem than the fact that it is so easy to wipe out lowbies. And even a balanced build will not stand up against an uber'd pk build. It doesn't matter how much or how little you know about the game mechanics or how you build your char, because it doesn't change the basic fact, (You will be abused by pk's, and lulz seekers in the current system.)
Yoz, well the problem is someone chased away all the normal players that a certain type of people prey on. There are people out there though trying to balance the system out to fix that problem.
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Fallout Online is not for casuals; it never was, and hopefully never will be (and that's the sole reason why many people, including me, are playing it).
If you're carrying more stuff on you than absolutely necessary, you deserve to lose it.
If, having escaped from a PK trap to the world map, instead of logging off/waiting for at least 15 minutes, you start walking to your tent/whatever other location right away, you deserve to be sucked back into that very same trap, and brutally raped, because you're either a jackass or a moron.
If you're trying to engage a PvP-ready opponent together with your non-PvP-ready low-level friends, instead of running (and I know for a fact that you tried to kill the guy, because you mentioned the fact of the guy actually using stimpaks), you all deserve to get owned like the noobs you are.
If you are not interested in PvP aspect of the game, and get massively butthurt every time you lose your painfully farmed gecko pelts/whatever crap you like to collect, I suggest you either man up and learn to deal with your losses, or play single player games instead. Nothing of value will be lost here, I assure you.
God, am I done listening to whining casuals!
If there are other guys leaving the game because "it is too harsh and unfair", they don't deserve to be here.
PRECISELY.
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Fallout Online is not for casuals; it never was, and hopefully never will be (and that's the sole reason why many people, including me, are playing it).
I have difficulty understanding the problem with "casuals", as you put it. Sometimes for a while I might play a few hours every day, then sometimes just a few hours every few weeks, occasionally spend an entire day playing on it - mine a bit, craft a bit, find a few people and go hunting, sell (or give away) some armour in the nearest town, help some new players get their 10 Brahmin skins etc etc. I'm pretty sure that'd count as being "casual" (as opposed to playing it for 6 hours every day, every month).
Generally speaking, I play it because it's fun - and can't see why that means I shouldn't be playing it.
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Do you know what I am tired of? I am tired of trying to pk and constantly having to do the other parts of the game like repair, trade, farm, even craft...
Yeah... what he said
Casual players are nice though. I can see how this games harshness turns them off, but it's the same harshness that draws us hardcore gamers. I'm so tired of how most games developed today seem "dumbed down" for the casual player.
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Here is a shock: FONLINE is not hard at all! The only thing that is hard is to get to know the game and his mechanics. That's why all fonliners tell new players not to quit, because they know that if you play the game enough you'll start to learn how easy is to get by in this game. Without stealing, in 2 months i had a bank account of 10 milions so don't tell me this game is hard. It is more unforgeving than other MMORPGs but is not hard.
Read the wiki, read the guides made by players, make some friends, learn to play and have fun. When I started to play FOnline I had no ideea what is a uberbuild but that didn't stopped me for a second to have the best time. Of course I was killed by players in all the possible ways, I lost my first CA to a bluesuit with a mauser, I ragequited many times, but that is the story of 95% of the FOnline comunity.
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zuhardu is right on this point. Once you're over the inital getting-used to it feel, then I wouldn't really call the game hard, as there are items everywhere, easy to craft/farm etc, plenty of tips on the forum, a nice characterplaner and so on. It's mostly just the start of the game which might be a bit "harsh".
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I think people wouldn't quit that much if encounters made some sense.
Good luck encountering robbers armed with smgs bursting anyone in moments, or any humanoids aiming for head and eyes - that was rarely if ever case in original fallout.
On the top of it, they'll have to crawl out of every nonsense in painfuly slow TB mode, or enjoy nearly unplayable CTB.
And when they finally estabilish some nice grinding place they'll have to deal with TB traps all around.
Imagine if players could just farm lvl 12 with ease, and then proceed to lvl 18 with new danger of PK traps, and since 18 they'd be targeted on random limbs by NPCs. It wouldn't be that easy, but would put player in situations they have chance to handle.
they have not obtained a tent yet, and have a crappy build
The tent is a lie! It's usefulness is overrated, and if anything really helps it's having bunch of teammates playing with you - this is not really anything you wouldn't expect from online game anyway, right?
There goes a problem with ubershitty interface for friend management and teaming up (how many times you just leave each other only because you've misclicked some button or did not know what some random icon means). It's questionable how this should really be done, because it's still fallout and going much further would make things like radios useless, though on other side there's just anything you can use out of game as well...
As for builds, this is in case of even old Fallout players, who usualy used builds with lower stats (eg. endurance was not big deal, in fact because player never took big amounts of damage like here), and had some RP skills they cannot use now. I don't know if it's possible, but wouldn't it make better sense just to remove things like barter instead of having skills doing absolutely nothing?
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Abe, a well informed slightly better built character is gonna make as much difference to a new player as a 10mm pistol and a desert eagle. You seem to be missing the point, the builds are less of the problem than the fact that it is so easy to wipe out lowbies. And even a balanced build will not stand up against an uber'd pk build. It doesn't matter how much or how little you know about the game mechanics or how you build your char, because it doesn't change the basic fact, (You will be abused by pk's, and lulz seekers in the current system.)
The builds wasn't the main point of what I was talking about though. I'm alright with the PvP in encounters, and a newbie really shouldn't have a chance against a level 21 build. But with Outdoorsman, you can easily avoid traps like that. Most of the time, one can safely PvE without some drugged build landing in on them. With the increased speed post-wipe, it will be less annoying to travel more distance, too. And if you die, you can still just get a new gun and armor and fight some more. As zuhardu said, it is very easy to get loot once you know how to. The main point in what I wrote is that a good number of noobs just don't get where to start. Basic things like how to cut a tree are never once mentioned by NPCs in the actual game, which I think they should, and not have an outside source like a Wiki be the only source of information.
I don't know if it's possible, but wouldn't it make better sense just to remove things like barter instead of having skills doing absolutely nothing?
It'd be nice if those skill could do something, but the problem is alts. If you make Barter have an advantage, people will just make a 300% Barter all to get all the best deals, that's why they got rid of barter's usefulness with the fixed prices system.
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In my experience, the majority of new players that quit are the ones that don't know anything else to do other than shovel brahmin shit, they have not obtained a tent yet, and have a crappy build.
That's pretty much it.
Fallout Online is not for casuals; it never was, and hopefully never will be (and that's the sole reason why many people, including me, are playing it).
If you're carrying more stuff on you than absolutely necessary, you deserve to lose it.
If, having escaped from a PK trap to the world map, instead of logging off/waiting for at least 15 minutes, you start walking to your tent/whatever other location right away, you deserve to be sucked back into that very same trap, and brutally raped, because you're either a jackass or a moron.
If you're trying to engage a PvP-ready opponent together with your non-PvP-ready low-level friends, instead of running (and I know for a fact that you tried to kill the guy, because you mentioned the fact of the guy actually using stimpaks), you all deserve to get owned like the noobs you are.
If you are not interested in PvP aspect of the game, and get massively butthurt every time you lose your painfully farmed gecko pelts/whatever crap you like to collect, I suggest you either man up and learn to deal with your losses, or play single player games instead. Nothing of value will be lost here, I assure you.
God, am I done listening to whining casuals!
So instead of questioning half-ready features and participating in testing players should just stfu and adapt?
For example if the game encourages to carry as little as possible, it's a stupid feature. IMO it's very bad for gameplay if players are encouraged to praise the items but not give a damn about their lives. The reason is that if items are more expensive than life, it results in suicidal gameplay which deteriorates the feel of the game. Did you see suicide bluesuit scouts or looters in Fallout 2?
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Well it's way too late to start a list of people we know who have quit playing. And I know so few people care, mostly because they don't understand that the loss of more players means the death of a game. This fact is something that is a constant in every game anywhere. Two more active players are gone. I don't think I'm gonna fully quit but I'm pretty sure I won't be back til wipe.
The Cause. We were out on mid lvl characters. Headed home after an hour of fun, had a person drop in, one single person with a laser rifle could shoot 4 times in a round, was able to heal "I assume with a super stim" and still move/shoot 3 times. Now I know this isn't like a hacked build it's just a jacked up drugged out pk build. The problem is unless you're the same 'type' of build you get owned. Then to TOP this all, one of managed to get away, moved into an entirely new zone and got pulled into that SAME encounter, and man was he jumped on like a fat man chasing a cupcake, not sure how either cause our bodies were on the other side of the map and he spawned right hand middle and ran as fast as he could. 4 shots dead... So after losing another hours worth of work they're gone.
Many people don't play this game for the PvP aspect. But EVERYONE of them is punished by it...
One of the captions under the FOnline pic at the top of the forums says "Everything else is dead or dying." And every day it becomes more true for the game itself...
This is a real problem: If one could enrich himself it would be a little equilibrated.
But banks have been virtually killed. And the little players work has been killed with tha stupid Ponzi scheme (I have serious doubts about the reality of this Ponzi scheme initial implementation).
IMO this was the WORST error ever done by developpers in the whole Fonline history. A lot of players have quited the game since it.
Now what is the situation?
Rich players / alliance become richer and richer, and can pex over-optimized builds (jet , buffout, no strenght)....
Such builds NEED a strong economy to be playable: you can't loot, you need very expensive stuff, sometime EXTREMELY expensive stuff (Gauss).
Such characters are of course MUCH more powerful than even "normal" PVP powerbuild.
If there were a equilibration mechanism it would be fun, but there is not.
I am quite pessimist about the future of this server.
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I agree about the bank interest and I have said this before: deleting bank interest will make things a bit harder for big gangs but will kill the casual players. Sadlly i see no fix for this, devs could delete interest after, lets say, 1 milion caps. But that will encourage alting once again. Now we have tent1, tent2, tent3, tent*, we really don't need bank1, bank2 etc.
Also, the "high-end" gear is not actually that hard to find, except gauss and that is good because it is the best weapon in the game. A interesting ideea would be to implement same level gear for bg and ew, also found only in special encounters.
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Wipe needed a.s.a.p how long we have to wait it? >:(
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IMO this was the WORST error ever done by developpers in the whole Fonline history. A lot of players have quited the game since it.
If bank interest was still there and banks had unlimited supply of caps, we'd have terrible merc spam and shops would be always full of caps and nothing more. Bank interest just doesn't work, handing out free caps is wrong. Same could be said about tc, the box hands out free caps regardless how the gang handles its town.
Rich players / alliance become richer and richer, and can pex over-optimized builds (jet , buffout, no strenght)....
Such builds NEED a strong economy to be playable: you can't loot, you need very expensive stuff, sometime EXTREMELY expensive stuff (Gauss).
Such characters are of course MUCH more powerful than even "normal" PVP powerbuild.
This is true, but you can blame the game for allowing so extreme minmaxing.
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This topic (and variations of it) have been discussed countless times before. I've said previously that unless you go for 1 cha 1 int drugged up pk build then you can never compete.
To be honest now when I get pked I don't even see it as another person killing me I just see it as another douchbag NPC out to make my scavenging trips that much more dangerous. If we did cut back the PvP then the PvPers will start to whine so there is absolutely no way to please everyone.
As for newbies quitting, guess what? I was a newbie one and yes I shoveled shit for hours then got robbed as soon as a cashed it in. But I love Fallout and stuck with it now I'm still getting robbed whenever I have anything on me at all.
People who aren't interested in the game will quit eventually anyway.
Learn to live with the game as it is. We're not customers here, we play this fantastic game for free. So put up or shut up ;D
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Such characters are of course MUCH more powerful than even "normal" PVP powerbuild.
Even the best gauss powerbuild is totally killable, such things give of course an advantage, but good strategy, a bit of luck, or some skill is far enough to kill those characters.
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I have a suggestion for devs:
If you have removed the bank interests (and virtually removed the banks), why not removing the Gauss pistols?
This game needs more equilibration mechanisms.
- the banks removing, added with capital quasi confiscation INCREASES DISequilibration
_ the Gauss pistols iNCREASE DISequilibration
If there are less and less players the evening in the end of the week (when a lot of players should normaly be there), there are reasons....
A game need a critical mass of players. Fonline 2238 losses each day some players, and now, IT IS NEAR this critical mass bottom limit:
To be clear: there is a death hazard for this game.
When there will be only VERY big teams on this servers it will be the end .
To be more honnest I wait to see the 2277 is more equilibrated.
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I have a suggestion for devs:
If you have removed the bank interests (and virtually removed the banks), why not removing the Gauss pistols?
This game needs more equilibration mechanisms.
- the banks removing, added with capital quasi confiscation INCREASES DISequilibration
_ the Gauss pistols iNCREASE DISequilibration
If there are less and less players the evening in the end of the week (when a lot of players should normaly be there), there are reasons....
That doesn't make any sense. What is the link between bank interest and gauss pistol oO? And personnally, I would play even less without gauss pistols...
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That doesn't make any sense. What is the link between bank interest and gauss pistol oO? And personnally, I would play even less without gauss pistols...
Perhaps YOU don't make the ling, but A LOT a players makes it: MONEY.
A team power is NOT a power player' extreme build. This is almost nothing.
The power this is MONEY,
MONEY to buy ALL (even numerous Gauss at 300k caps each), to be able to pex expensive build,
MONEY MONEY.
The rest is a detail.
The caps, the dollars, are the key of success.
If devs makes more and more DISequilibrate mechanisms, in advantadge for BIG AND RICH teams, many players quit the game.
It is a question of choice.
But it is mathematic.
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I have a suggestion for devs:
If you have removed the bank interests (and virtually removed the banks), why not removing the Gauss pistols?
This game needs more equilibration mechanisms.
- the banks removing, added with capital quasi confiscation INCREASES DISequilibration
_ the Gauss pistols iNCREASE DISequilibration
If there are less and less players the evening in the end of the week (when a lot of players should normaly be there), there are reasons....
A game need a critical mass of players. Fonline 2238 losses each day some players, and now, IT IS NEAR this critical mass bottom limit:
To be clear: there is a death hazard for this game.
When there will be only VERY big teams on this servers it will be the end .
To be more honnest I wait to see the 2277 is more equilibrated.
As has been said quite a bit the reason the numbers are low is because of he upcoming wipe everyone is waiting for. Personally I'm not playing at the moment because I'm waiting for the wipe, but I do come on here everyday after work to get updates and news.
I just know for a fact if I started playing again, as soon as I made some decent progress the wipe will hit me like visiting the doctor after a $5 hooker.
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I also play at Civilization 4.
The victory key is NOT in developping a numerous army, but a GOOD army.
The victory key is the MONEY. To buy buildings, to buy units, to buy research.
But there are equilibration mechanisms: it is fun to develop a big empire.... but it has a cost.... and it is expensive.... at each turn.... (not only the first one).
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...
Bullshit. This is not the real life, stuff is far more valuable than caps, you can't play only with caps, and they don't always manage to get you the stuff you need. Even if some players play for caps (htey can if they think it's fun), majority are playing for PvP/PVE (and few for RP) where stuff is all you need. You can't build a big and powerfull team with caps, but you will be able to with stuff. Expansive builds are expensive in stuff, not caps.
And it still doesn't have any link with gauss pistol.
Btw, capitalizing words doesn't make your speech better...
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Bullshit. This is not the real life, stuff is far more valuable than caps, you can't play only with caps, and they don't always manage to get you the stuff you need. Even if some players play for caps (htey can if they think it's fun), majority are playing for PvP/PVE (and few for RP) where stuff is all you need. You can't build a big and powerfull team with caps, but you will be able to with stuff. Expansive builds are expensive in stuff, not caps.
And it still doesn't have any link with gauss pistol.
Btw, capitalizing words doesn't make your speech better...
This IS the real life.
The most deadly weapons are BANKS.
Hitler has been beaten by american BANKS
I believe that banking institutions are more degerous to our liberties than stansding armies . If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered .
[ Thomas Jefferson ]
/quote]
L'argent est le nerf de la guerre.
Catherine de Medicis
(1519-1589) Reine de France
Translation:
Money is the war nerve
Catherine de Medicis
(1519-1589) Queen of France
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Yoz, well the problem is someone chased away all the normal players that a certain type of people prey on. There are people out there though trying to balance the system out to fix that problem.
As zuhardu said, the game is easy. All you have to do is figure it out. I have no problem if the too stupid to figure out how not to die too much and the too weak to take dying from time to time leave.
I remember killing a bluesuit 3 or 4 times in a row in the exact same square. It takes a special kind of a person to repeatedly come back to the same square after getting killed there every time, but it takes a full retard to come back to the same square even after I explicitly told him not to because it is too dangerous to level near cities. I hope he quit.
Every time a bluesuit ragequits, my heart fills with joy, because I know I have raised the average player quality of the server. In fact, all of you should thank Section 8, which is just a player-driven player quality control mechanism that rids the server of the too stupid to figure out how not to die too much and the too weak to take dying from time to time.
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As zuhardu said, the game is easy. All you have to do is figure it out. I have no problem if the too stupid to figure out how not to die too much and the too weak to take dying from time to time leave.
I remember killing a bluesuit 3 or 4 times in a row in the exact same square. It takes a special kind of a person to repeatedly come back to the same square after getting killed there every time, but it takes a full retard to come back to the same square even after I explicitly told him not to because it is too dangerous to level near cities. I hope he quit.
Every time a bluesuit ragequits, my heart fills with joy, because I know I have raised the average player quality of the server. In fact, all of you should thank Section 8, which is just a player-driven player quality control mechanism that rids the server of the too stupid to figure out how not to die too much and the too weak to take dying from time to time.
Perhaps you're right....
But a certain laxism on insults is another reason of the players deficit.....
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To be perfectly honest everyone who's bitching about PKers and the 'harsh wasteland' is exaggerating. I can imagine a lot more people come to these forums to get a taster of the game and are scared off by the bullshit than the game itself.
Every time you leave NCR you aren't Pked, you can mine in safety, you can create a character without resorting to a powerbuild and most importantly have fun.
There's so much bitching about 'balance' and the fact the game is 'dead' it's getting ridiculous. I admit I have posted on a different thread asking when the wipe is, purely because I love this game and it's sheer excitement.
Seriously guys you need to start posting more balanced views. The game is harsh for newbies and you know why? IT'S A GAME THEY HAVEN'T PLAYED BEFORE. I recently bought Mortal Kombat 9 and went online... Guess what I got owned. It's the same damn thing.
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I'm still catching up on all the posts, this thread seems rather proliferated from just last night when I seen it. Anyway, as I read on the new ones, I wanted to point out a few things. Ignorance is not to be confused with stupidity. Not knowing the game does not make one a moron. That's just bullshit. Now, you could argue that "They have wiki, they should know about the game and everything in it blahblahblah," except that is Never a valid argument. One should Not have to go read a wiki/whatever entirely Just to be able to enjoy the game. Hell, even after that, there's so many damn nuances in the game that its still rather difficult for anyone new without someone to explain shit to them.
Sadly, People are assholes if given anonymity, it caters to a certain, dark aspect of ourselves and lets us speak and act like we normally never would without the fears of repercussions. This phenomenon is not new. That really is not the problem, but the gameplay almost seems to encourage or at least enable the Grife to an extreme extent. This is not conducive to introducing new people to the game or even retaining them. I don't give a shit for others reasoning: its a game, it is meant to be played. Having it cater to a little niche of certain hardcore players is stupid if thats the 'plan' (and I don't really think it is, it's just that the present development has enabled this to a horrid degree and has never been repaired).
Through design, bugs, and the general apathy of the Internet, we have at present a game that attracts little and loses much, including my own interest. Game is Broken right now and hope some of the issues will be redressed in the future. It is stagnating right now and I myself am patiently waiting for (hopefully) fixes that will eventually arrive. Until then, the best I can describe the game for me right now is "Blah."
...Much longer than I thought it'd be, oh well.
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I'm still catching up on all the posts, this thread seems rather proliferated from just last night when I seen it. Anyway, as I read on the new ones, I wanted to point out a few things. Ignorance is not to be confused with stupidity. Not knowing the game does not make one a moron. That's just bullshit. Now, you could argue that "They have wiki, they should know about the game and everything in it blahblahblah," except that is Never a valid argument. One should Not have to go read a wiki/whatever entirely Just to be able to enjoy the game. Hell, even after that, there's so many damn nuances in the game that its still rather difficult for anyone new without someone to explain shit to them.
Sadly, People are assholes if given anonymity, it caters to a certain, dark aspect of ourselves and lets us speak and act like we normally never would without the fears of repercussions. This phenomenon is not new. That really is not the problem, but the gameplay almost seems to encourage or at least enable the Grife to an extreme extent. This is not conducive to introducing new people to the game or even retaining them. I don't give a shit for others reasoning: its a game, it is meant to be played. Having it cater to a little niche of certain hardcore players is stupid if thats the 'plan' (and I don't really think it is, it's just that the present development has enabled this to a horrid degree and has never been repaired).
Through design, bugs, and the general apathy of the Internet, we have at present a game that attracts little and loses much, including my own interest. Game is Broken right now and hope some of the issues will be redressed in the future. It is stagnating right now and I myself am patiently waiting for (hopefully) fixes that will eventually arrive. Until then, the best I can describe the game for me right now is "Blah."
...Much longer than I thought it'd be, oh well.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
This thread is not about the banks/interest thing, take that elsewhere.
This thread isn't about the 'hardness' of the game. Please comprehend what the issue is. The fact is the ABUSE wrought on the new players and the non-pvp style players. This is Fallout not Quake.
I choose to not reiterate -again- the basic points of this fact, especially since Gat said it so very well.
I will however again state that I'm not talking about getting rid of pvp. I actually enjoy PvP in a balanced system, when both sides have a reasonably equal chance of win/lose. There are some situations where equal won't mean diddly, like being outnumbered in TC. But even in that case some strategy can help you. The rest is just broken.
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I will however again state that I'm not talking about getting rid of pvp. I actually enjoy PvP in a balanced system, when both sides have a reasonably equal chance of win/lose. There are some situations where equal won't mean diddly, like being outnumbered in TC. But even in that case some strategy can help you. The rest is just broken.
Which are the two sides that you want to have an equal chance of winning/losing? A crafter build and a pvper build?
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Seriously guys you need to start posting more balanced views. The game is harsh for newbies and you know why? IT'S A GAME THEY HAVEN'T PLAYED BEFORE. I recently bought Mortal Kombat 9 and went online... Guess what I got owned. It's the same damn thing.
This is however not true, and I bet you can practice MK whatvernumber to some degree with computer opponents. There is no way to do that in FOnline, because it's so much different to original SP games that's not even nice - and that without really changing anything from it's SPECIAL.
As I said, newbie will not try to stockpile all the things in wasteland, but probably will try to achieve something first and grow stronger. He'll not care to have stack of 10 plasma rifles in his tent, but will want to be high level being able to obtain plasma rifles each day.
Better crafting will fix a lot, and it takes to fix encounters (including those pvp, but those are relatively rare) as well as player interaction alone. It's just so easy to kill/steal from/shame unsuspecting newbie, they might not even enjoy the fact they're not alone in the world. Constant danger is fine, should it be your design, however it resulted in constant grieving and little has been done with it (we could thank for example for giving guards sniper rifles instead of assault rifles).
Banks don't do shit. Making people get used loosing stuff because they can just buy new is the worst idea I've ever saw.
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Yoz, The balance I speak of, is between a way lower lvl character and a capped. Perhaps not being able to kill them at all unless they shoot you first. The point is simple the system as it is, is broken. The thread in my sig has many ideas on what could be changed.
This game isn't just harsh for newbies, it's harsh for ANYONE not a capped pk build of some form. And the crafting system isn't as much of an issue. It doesn't matter how you get the items, it's that they can be stripped away in any number of fashions before you even make it to your tent, or town to sell/use them.
As Gat said, it's a game that is meant to be played by not just one small 'niche' of people who do it one way, but a variety of people with differing play styles. Kinda like um you know, Fallout?
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Yoz, The balance I speak of, is between a way lower lvl character and a capped. Perhaps not being able to kill them at all unless they shoot you first. The point is simple the system as it is, is broken. The thread in my sig has many ideas on what could be changed.
You want a lv21 and a lv1 to have an equal chance of winning/losing? You want to disable killing people who are below 21??????
There is nothing broken about the system. It seems like you want to break the system to better fit your own playing style.
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Of course this is a beta and the content has not been added.
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You want a lv21 and a lv1 to have an equal chance of winning/losing? You want to disable killing people who are below 21??????
There is nothing broken about the system. It seems like you want to break the system to better fit your own playing style.
I think the whole problem could be solved with death count I mean each char for every 24 hour has a number of deaths he can take at lvl21 it would be 2 then if the char reach that its gets deleted. Can be abused yeah but right now there is no down side to death just a respawn timer and some gear that lost which is nothing at higher levels. Of course at lower levels players should have a lot of death count (maybe around 100 at lvl 1) but as they progress they should get less and less. To make it a bit better since there are some blowers and bursters at guarded cities it could be made that those locations doesn't count and at unprotected places it applies invidually like for example lvl21 go to camp the Gecko mine he dies there if he goes back and die again he gets deleted but he can go and camp V13 since there he can die 1 time too.
Btw if someone looks at Jagged Alliance 2 which in my opinion has the best combat system then its easy to see that the level or experience is second to tactics. With good tactics 4-5 lower level player should be able to kill a level 21 guy no matter what build he has or its rt or tb fight
Also enemies need a boost one guy shouldn't be able to kill more then 3 armed person so he should fight them more then once to finish them like when someone needs a tactical withdraw in JA2 then enters the same sector from a different side and do another ambush (this can't be implemented I fear).
Now situations like above can't happen thanks to the huge hp difference a great solution would be to give a maxed starting hp and change the life giver to give a fix amount of hp (it has been changed to that as I know). Going with max hp from start would make a chance for more and better PvP (sadly I'm not a fan of it but other would surely like to have more fight).
I think one of these would solve the issues of to much quiting. Probably the second one would be better since the first can be overcome with making 20 combat alt with same build and fast reloging which isn't nice but can happen.
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Yoz, please 'carefully' read this thread and most notably Gatling's post (and possibly the thread in my sig so you can maybe understand). The system is broken, period.
The fact that lvl 21's can go around and constantly destroy the gameplay of way lower lvl characters has in fact killed this game (if I want that style of play I'll play WoW) I don't want a lvl 1 to be able to take out a 21, or the other way around. A situation may arise where a lvl 1 attacks a 21 in the wastes and that is their own fault and they should accept that they will be killed. The simple fact that there is -zero- chance for a lvl 1 to survive an encounter with an armed capped pk is the issue. And as far as the play style is concerned, again read Gatling's post. I know you're afraid that you may have to start working for your kills if things change, but this game is dying as is.
A Kill limit on pk's won't solve the issue because people don't normally get killed by the same pk over and over. There are Hundreds of them. (well not anymore atm) The issue is as stated above. Surf has said it, Gatling has said it, It's believed that this game is not intended for one style of play, like in the essence of the original games.
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Btw if someone looks at Jagged Alliance 2 which in my opinion has the best combat system then its easy to see that the level or experience is second to tactics.
That's because Jagged Alliance 2 offers countless tactical possibilities that Fallout doesn't (crouching, proning, different types of grenades which can be thrown even if you don't see your target, moving backwards, mortars, remote explosives that can be used to blow up doors/walls, landmines, camouflage, etc, etc). It's in no way connected to your starting amount of hit points, I assure you.
The fact that lvl 21's can go around and constantly destroy the gameplay of way lower lvl characters has in fact killed this game
Let's say PK'ing gets banned. I'll tell you what would happen. All PK's and anti-PK's would leave the server. You and your friends would come back to the game and happily collect stuff for a day or two. Then you would quit, saying that the game is boring, 100% predictable, and offers no challenge at all, plus there's nobody playing. The server would be shut down, the end. Sad but true.
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That's because Jagged Alliance 2 offers countless tactical possibilities that Fallout doesn't (crouching, proning, different types of grenades which can be thrown even if you don't see your target, moving backwards, mortars, remote explosives that can be used to blow up doors/walls, landmines, camouflage, etc, etc). It's in no way connected to your starting amount of hit points, I assure you.
If you have equal hp with someone and you have covers then you can easily win in the fight and with equal I mean both has around 160-200 hp well even with 120 hp you can win if you can use tactics (it can work mostly in city maps sadly not enough cover at other places). The missing of stance and the fire only on creatures really makes it harder thats why I said maxed out hp at start. Starting amount of hp only matters because with 30 hp no matter what but a player can't kill someone who stand in the open wide and has 200 hp even if he has a sure win possition.
Fallout tactics made a quite good combat system based on the first two game and it was quite fun though not as challenging as JA with only one merc in the hardest setting. The multi player fight there was pretty good six lower leveled char could finish a higher level one or make him suffer a bit.
Fonline needs a lot of upgrade on maps for combat tactics. Every enc should have bigger map and a lot of cover.
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Let's say PK'ing gets banned. I'll tell you what would happen. All PK's and anti-PK's would leave the server. You and your friends would come back to the game and happily collect stuff for a day or two. Then you would quit, saying that the game is boring, 100% predictable, and offers no challenge at all, plus there's nobody playing. The server would be shut down, the end. Sad but true.
+1 clear as daylight
The system is broken, period.
FOnline does not have a broken system, you cannot play on a broken system. FOnline is a beta game with balanced and unbalanced aspects and devs that do this for fun/free. Of course I would love too that every bug to be fixed in a matter of days and to see new content added every week, but this is imposible.
Crying about the high levels that make the game harder for other players is bullshit too. Some people around here get the impresion that pro pvpers get their 21 lvl character when they log in the game for the first time... We all had low level characters, we all leveled, we all got killed in the game, we all lost gear. Also, speaking of gear and low level characters, a pvper loses more gear and has to level more characters than a casual player could only dream of. How they can do that without crying all day on forums? Simple: THE PLAY THE GAME! They don't write 100 posts for every level they earn, they dont start bitching about every in-game death, they don't believe that this game is suposed to have the same amount of "fairness" beetween a guy that has been playing for a week and a guy that is two years old in the game. You want the game to be fair with you? Then i suggest to start playing it! You want to be cuddled, protected and to get on screen tips at every 5 minutes? Then what the f*** are you doing here? Guess what!? Every single guy that kills you in this game was in your shoes at some point. In FOnline we learn things the hard way and that is why most of us love the game. I will repeat myself, the game is only hard to get to know it, is not hard to play it after that.
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Yoz, please 'carefully' read this thread and most notably Gatling's post (and possibly the thread in my sig so you can maybe understand). The system is broken, period.
The fact that lvl 21's can go around and constantly destroy the gameplay of way lower lvl characters has in fact killed this game (if I want that style of play I'll play WoW) I don't want a lvl 1 to be able to take out a 21, or the other way around. A situation may arise where a lvl 1 attacks a 21 in the wastes and that is their own fault and they should accept that they will be killed. The simple fact that there is -zero- chance for a lvl 1 to survive an encounter with an armed capped pk is the issue. And as far as the play style is concerned, again read Gatling's post. I know you're afraid that you may have to start working for your kills if things change, but this game is dying as is.
A Kill limit on pk's won't solve the issue because people don't normally get killed by the same pk over and over. There are Hundreds of them. (well not anymore atm) The issue is as stated above. Surf has said it, Gatling has said it, It's believed that this game is not intended for one style of play, like in the essence of the original games.
But no one is constantly going around 'destroying' game play. This isn't a game where the second you walk out of NCR you get PKed. PKers are a factor of the game and yes it does happen every so often even to the most cautious.
It's an important factor in this game and makes it even more enjoyable, it actually makes the fact that you are still living fun which every other game fails at. Most other games force you into avenues of 'fun' but in this game simply being alive gives off a certain amount of adrenaline.
What do you want to happen? PK is only for level 21's? That would just change the game into a carebear world. Only certain areas for PvP? tell you what let's stop every hostile action in the game other than in one specific area. Again, another dull game.
Some of he most exciting times I've had is when I'm in an encounter and another has joined and I've had to judge if he's going to attack or he's just curious. Yeah alot of the times they did blow me away but that's the whole damn point of free PvP the rush of the unknown.
This is coming from a currently non pvper
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Yoz, please 'carefully' read this thread and most notably Gatling's post (and possibly the thread in my sig so you can maybe understand). The system is broken, period.
I see. Adding "period" after your statement made it true. Solid argument, I can't argue with that.
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Many people don't play this game for the PvP aspect. But EVERYONE of them is punished by it...
Hardly read the first page don't want to go really deep into all these posts , but I still don't understand one thing..... nothing came into my mind reading first page....
What do you want ? Maybe the game is not for you , too harsh :) please.... it's a piece of candy if you know how.
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bla bla blabla blabla....etc
:P :P :P
Seriously your discussion is going to nowhere and i strongly doubt that any guy gets interest in read this whole boring stuff.
Also we are in the end of our pwnzement era, a whole new update is coming (not soon of course). Soon (hahaha) you will have many new stuff to be disagree with. Cry because some actual feature or system is wrong is useless now, everything now is abusable and devs will not change anything until everything is done.
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:P :P :P
Seriously your discussion is going to nowhere and i strongly doubt that any guy gets interest in read this whole boring stuff.
Also we are in the end of our pwnzement era, a whole new update is coming (not soon of course). Soon (hahaha) you will have many new stuff to be disagree with. Cry because some actual feature or system is wrong is useless now, everything now is abusable and devs will not change anything until everything is done.
If you think going on a forum and sharing your views, no mater how valid or invalid boring then you probably cease to log on. It's a forum. People talk.
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No where in this thread is it stated by me that PvP needs to stop. And I know how scary it is for some of you to think about change, but the current system isn't working, and it hasn't worked. Partially because of lack of established features, and because so many people drop off so quickly because of the pk abuse issue. If GM's can see it, and many players can see it, maybe I'm not completely crazy.
There has to be some way to strike a balance. Maybe not being able to jump someone that's 5 lvls lower unless they hit you first? Perhaps if we try to think of ways to achieve this, rather than just saying "Pk fine more loot for me no challenge yay!"
Stration, did you never finish Fallout 1 and 2? Say for example that Pk was banned unless in TC (which is again not what I won't) Then you would have players like my friends and new people who join, playing, lvling up, scaving, delving in the glow(and later places), and trying out TC... But wait isn't that what this game is about?
Reiniat, as Gatling said the net allows for a lot of the people to be unreasonable than they might be in say normal life. So a thread on the net isn't going to go as smooth as a normal debate.
Yoz, yeah I was being insistent. I will try to be more flexible but it's difficult when few others are.
Trias, Many pk's that I and people I have spoken with go around for the soul purpose of killing everything that moves, the lower the better taking their stuff and moving on. If you spend any amount of time getting the gear you just lost, that's time you don't get back. And when it can happen just because some punk is all full of pent up rage about something and is just out for kicks, it's in the least very annoying, and for many people not fun.
T-888, the discussion is about the fact that as stated by many people the current system which whether on purpose or not caters to the depraved. And is in no small part a factor in the lack of a population. (And maybe you should read the thread so you know what we're actually talking about.)
Zuhardu, you bring up a point as Swing did, it's a beta, it's not finished. You however seem to have trouble realizing that the difficulty of the game is NOT in question. This game is quite easy, in essence. It is the fact that there is no scale when it comes to a lowbie and a capped pk. With the fact that so many people follow with the depraved style of game play, you can't walk hardly anywhere without bumping into a PK that's hyped up and blows you away. No amount of knowledge of the game can change this fact. (I think Gatling mentioned this point, and I later reiterated it.) The fact that you see an attempt to debate and a perhaps find a solution to an aspect of a beta-test as crying, seems to indicate you might be missing that this is a test.
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If GM's can see it, and many players can see it, maybe I'm not completely crazy.
It was my position more as a player than a GM, as I have always been more active as a normal player in-game(though usually without all this gang stuff/anti-pk/pk hangups people seem to have). It hasn't been enjoyable for awhile as a solo players position, and this was from an Established position. I had a few alts, a crafter, a few fun ones, my own base, caps, etc. So its not like I had nothing, had to scrape to get what I wanted, I enjoyed a rather leisurely gaming experience(after working to get my own base that is, hah). I still lose stuff rather often, but losing stuff isnt really a bad thing. You can still die in-game, and enjoy yourself.
I enjoy the pvp, but have not really had fun with it this wipe for a bit since the solo pvp'er was rather shit upon with a rising list of changes. Still try, yes, but its more mixed than it should be. Oh well, and DESPITE my bitching, I still try to enjoy myself, and do at times.
...Just not as much as I should, which is puzzling, as I do like the game. So it's at a point of being, "I like this. I know I like this. But why the hell is this crap just more annoying than fun?" Anyway. Again, I'unno what other GMs opinions on it are, I still, to this day play normally more than GM duties(mainly because whenever I am on GM name, theres almost never reqhelps, and its boring just sittin' on my GM char waiting for that), so that is again my little opinion on it.
The game can appeal to everyone, when its balanced out. And it will, in time, I just hope I am patient enough to wait until then. Probably(I think), as I still am here despite the craptacular clusterfuck of pvp.
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I hereby ask forgiveness from Gatling for placing reference on him solely as a GM.
The game can appeal to everyone, when its balanced out. And it will, in time, I just hope I am patient enough to wait until then. Probably(I think), as I still am here despite the craptacular clusterfuck of pvp.
So I will say that players can see that there is an issue.
I'm open to thoughts from anyone on how we might strike some form of balance. I'm sure someone other than me has some kind of idea.
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Personal karma, what depends on player to player behavior, visible to everyone as name colorizing(example: red-orange-white-lightgreen-green). No artificial ingame limitations. Its balance of player maintaining his own name, reputation in wasteland. You like grouping and other social attributes of this game? Then you would care about your personal karma to be in positive numbers - Green. You like pking and trolling other players? You can still group and do other stuff as anyone else, but becouse your name is red you cant expect trust from random players.
There wouldnt be any positive effect in killing other players - You are at max green and your enemy is in max red values, by killing him you wouldnt get any +/-0 points to your karma, but if his karma aint that bad you would get negative values, if his karma is in green aswell you would think twice to lose your karma for one kill. Abuse would be prevented by demands/work to get positive values. The higher your karma is the higher impact has your bad behavior on it. Easier way to go down, harder to go up with your karma.
Is it that one step from harshness to gameplay, balance without any restrictions to player freedom.
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People also mention that in real life people don't act like that. This is true, but computer games are a form of escapism from real life so that we can do the things that we never could in reality.
I'm not a PKer, I get more out of a guy saying thanks than I do burst firing some randomer in the face. That's just a personal preference. Other people really enjoy murdering blue suits. Neither style is a 'wrong' way of playing the game and I for one applaud the fact that you can pretty much play how you want.
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But if you dont know who to trust in random encouters, its pretty one-sided decision.
And you can imagine if some newcomer finaly meets some live soul full of hope runnin towards to say hello, what kind of welcome he gets. Pretty discouraging for further play.
This cant be basis of healthy MMO.
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But if you dont know who to trust in random encouters, its pretty one-sided decision.
And you can imagine if some newcomer finaly meets some live soul full of hope runnin towards to say hello, what kind of welcome he gets. Pretty discouraging for further play.
This cant be basis of healthy MMO.
Why not? We're all still playing and I can guarantee that it's happened to 99% of people here on the forum. At the end of the day if a guy logs in just to see what's going on he's more than likely going to leave for one reason or another eventually anyway.
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Well the difference i see is what anyone imagine under word "healthy". I imagine game of growing population where people cooperate to achieve their goals and have fun together. On the other side there are guys who imagine the logical animal line of the stronger will survive, in this case having fun on another people accounts until they leave this game in boredom, its some kind of asocial troll thinking when the elite trolls survive and grow fat by eating others and in their favor the game is build right now, so any casual player who accidentally strays into this game and such a first impression can discourage him becouse hes not that hardy yet.
But those trolls are against themselfs becouse more people = more fun(food).
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Yes a game is a form of escapism, but only if that game is enjoyable. Right now really only one style of play is rewarded and in a form to those people enjoyable. And even they are having trouble enjoying it because for some reason there are hardly any players online. We're not trying to say one style is right and one is wrong. What is being said here, is that the way things currently work in game, haven't helped the game grow, and have become focused almost entirely on one form of game play.
This is a test so would it really hurt to try a different system?
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Is that poll trying to equate losing everything on your computer to being pk'd and losing stuff in the game? If so i believe you have mental health problems for trying to make a comparison like that.
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This is a test so would it really hurt to try a different system?
More WoW-like = more players?
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Swing, have you played WoW? PvP in there is constantly filled with people camping low lvl areas killing all the quest givers, guards, and quest monsters that people need, along with any fool lowbie that happens to attack them. Sounds kinda like this game huh? And again I know that it's hard to really consider something when people are so frightened by it, but I am not saying no PvP in all areas, and I never said that my suggestion had to be implemented EXACTLY as I wrote it. It's an 'idea' to see if more than just a few brains can come together and find out a way to help this game have a chance at living and bringing in more people to play it.
Snipe, it's fairly reasonable actually because many people get on the net for fun, and the poll '?' doesn't sound like a bunch of fun does it? Losing hours of work, anything new you may have done, and having to start it all over again from the beginning. Sure you may have back ups but it still causes a lot of time to be lost in the same repetitive fashion. And to have no real choice in the matter, other than not using it. People come to this game for fun and to escape, and if that involves a revolving door of replication screens, and having to rework for whatever you have managed to scrape together (barring the major gangs that just give you stuff.) again and again, sounds kinda similar. So yeah in my 'head' I don't think that's fun and certainly hasn't done much to help this game grow.
I have asked the people I know who have quit, or have at least stopped playing in hopes that a better system may come in a future wipe. Not a single one has said they left because of lack of content. Every one of them left because unless they joined a huge gang and followed them around like puppies, they were constantly set back hours of work, in most cases having it happen daily. When you're not even able to be safe crafting your first weapon while holding your precious leather jacket from Buster, you have to wonder why people get frustrated. Sure at low lvls even the npcs can woop your ass, but smart people know how to avoid that. And losing your stuff to a computer ai, is a hell of a lot different then having a real person intentionally take it from you, especially when you know for a fact they will not get anything for it, but the lulz of taking out another weaker person.
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Swing, have you played WoW? PvP in there is constantly filled with people camping low lvl areas killing all the quest givers, guards, and quest monsters that people need, along with any fool lowbie that happens to attack them.
I meant Full Loot and the Pkers attacking first.
I think we might get more players if those 2 things were curbed.
Maybe have it level based: 90% protection at Lv1, minus 10% per level (As long as you don't attack first).
No protection once you hit Lv 10 or 11.
But that only counts for retaining equipped items and loot up to 1000 caps base value.
(So we don't get Lv1 Barter alts for couriering piles of valuables)
The protection could be hit% and DR (vs attacking PK only), as well as some kind of Karma/Tagging system.
It would only apply to characters 3+ levels higher than you, but some Karma system for PKing and killing townspeople (in addition to Reputation) at all levels.
I would make it realistic, though- no Telepathy, but also taking into account the power of Word-Of-Mouth. (Also the fact taht FO has some mystical stuff in the form of Karma)
It's lame-ish, but I'd put up with it if it meant more players.
Perhaps sweeten the pot- RT monster speed is 50% at Lv 1, plus 5%/level to full amount, and Battle Timer for hitting exit grids is Zero at Lv 1 then +10% per level to full amount.
Some bonuses:
Gathering: 1 XP per personally gathered material at Lv1, per 2 items at lv2, per 3 at Lv 3, etc.
May stop at Lv 10 or earlier, or go on to lvl cap.
Crafting: 1 XP per craft (not per item in a batch), including intermediate materials such as Gunpowder and Metal Parts. At Lv2 goes down to per 2 craftings, etc.
May stop at Lv 10 or earlier, or go on to lvl cap.
Repeatable PostMan quests between towns for 100 caps and 50 xp plus 10 XP/caps per square of distance (straight line distance). Extra bad Karma and Reputation for killing or even attacking PostMen.
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I'm curious what these being set back "hours" of work entails, losing a metal armor? 5 minutes of decent farming losing a decent gun? 2 minutes of farming. I don't see how they lose "hours" unless for some strange reason they run around with stacks of BA and pray not to get killed. If for some reason it takes you "hours" to farm that it seems to me like it's a problem with their builds/farming strategy and they should improve upon that instead of trying to add some hello kitty into the game.
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I'm curious what these being set back "hours" of work entails, losing a metal armor? 5 minutes of decent farming losing a decent gun? 2 minutes of farming. I don't see how they lose "hours" unless for some strange reason they run around with stacks of BA and pray not to get killed. If for some reason it takes you "hours" to farm that it seems to me like it's a problem with their builds/farming strategy and they should improve upon that instead of trying to add some hello kitty into the game.
You're lacking to understand the topic from a newbie perspective. Nobody new will know how to farm fast and super efficient. They are new therefore don't know anything or very little.
Anyway I don't think any kind of protection will work atm because It is exploitable. The only way is to introduce protected areas where players can't attack each other. Think of it as the opposite to the north towns where anybody can attack whomever and vice versa.
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You're lacking to understand the topic from a newbie perspective. Nobody new will know how to farm fast and super efficient. They are new therefore don't know anything or very little.
Anyway I don't think any kind of protection will work atm because It is exploitable. The only way is to introduce protected areas where players can't attack each other. Think of it as the opposite to the north towns where anybody can attack whomever and vice versa.
I think you're lacking the understanding from a perspective of a Fallout fan. I've said previously that we've all been there. We've all been PKed by a guy who took us out into the wastes, or killed after a particularly good scavenge. The difference between them and us is that we've stuck with it and made an attempt to learn, hence why we know what we know now. We've made that choice because we want to be part of something that when Fallout 2 came out was only a dream, a crazy acid fueled dream.
I've also said that I don't really participate in PvP but I've learnt that it's a part of the game and that I have to deal with it. For the developers who are by the way unpaid volunteers having to cater to everyone is simply not fair.
People crying on here is like people crying on other forums about core gameplay/grahics/sound or whatever. Stop trying to change the game to suit yourself. Either move on to another game or learn to love the flaws a game has.
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http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=17104.75
Not sure why the main thread got locked, unless there was a post that got erased that caused an issue.
Swing you have a really great idea. I'm not sure about the npcs being slower part, since the game was at base balanced for them vs people. But I'm sure there's something we can do with it. The protection stopping at a certain lvl is not a bad idea either simply because soo many people are concerned about destroying the 'heart' of fallout (pvp) Which really it was about building/rebuilding and surviving. That's not the point though this is how it is.
So in similar to my suggestion (in sig) For the first few levels you have some form of protection. Something to say is that it should NOT extend to any area where the expectation of safety doesn't exist, any unprotected town/mine, and zone area, like The Glow, Necrop, Mariposa, SAD, and so forth.
Snipe. It takes 12 reg ore and 2 metal parts to make 100 rounds of 10mm, adding on the mats for the gun, that's 10 mins by itself, not even really counting travel time, and if you have to go to your tent first, then to a bench. Then you go hunt, takes you 3 mins+ to find a reasonable encounter where you can take on stuff, kill loot, that can take another 2 mins(without bursting) Do that 4 or so times that's another 20 mins, then head back to tent drop it off, rinse repeat once, that's 1 hour+ then carry the gear to town and sell. Anywhere in that time should you be killed, you're set back all that you did, plus you have to do it ALL over again. Could take people who maybe even travel in groups of 2 or more, several times of doing the above actions before they get to actually keep their stuff. And the better stuff they sure as hell never carry because then it's gone and you have to start that back at the beginning again. I just find it hard to believe a game is fun when it's work for the best stuff in game just to hide it, or don't work for it at all, walk around with basic gear and kill lowbies, yay fun....
Trias, I'm not trying to change a game to suit myself. I'm trying to help a game that is constantly hemorrhaging players every wipe, perhaps have a system that can appeal to more groups of players.
Mactic, if you read the suggestion in my sig, it does a decent job of removing the exploitable parts of low lvl protection. And Sling came up with a decent version of the suggestion that could be worked into something feasible.
I would really like to get more brainstorms like Swings, that are ways we might help fix this. If we can get enough that might be agreed upon I would write them up in a new Suggestion that outlines what we came up with.
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This is getting tiresome.
You cannot remove the game's main feature - that means this discussion is pointless.
Your topic is just another of these whining("I was killed!") topics, and there were so many of them, I'm going to start vomiting.
Please, have some mercy.
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You already have 322 posts and you are on this forum a little over a month. Please, find some time to play the game too and slow down with the useless posts, I bet you don't even have a level 21 character.
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You already have 322 posts and you are on this forum a little over a month.
Date Registered: 08-05-2010, 08:24:39
I know, reading and comprehension for sure is hard, but it wouldn't hurt to atleast try it from time to time, wouldn't it?
Please, find some time to play the game too and slow down with the useless posts, I bet you don't even have a level 21 character.
The only useless remark was yours. Does it physically hurt you to read these threads? It's better for your health not to open or reply to them then. Btw, no one needs to be a "pr0 player" to give feedback or discuss the game, and you're the last person to determine wether a person is qualified to post anything or not.
So in similar to my suggestion (in sig) For the first few levels you have some form of protection. Something to say is that it should NOT extend to any area where the expectation of safety doesn't exist, any unprotected town/mine, and zone area, like The Glow, Necrop, Mariposa, SAD, and so forth.
As we already established in the other thread, magical protection from other players or no-pvp stuff won't happen. As long as some normal posts and not the useless 2 remarks above are posted, I'll let the other thread open and move these messages there. There is a need to get new players more access to the game, but not on the cost of existing feautures.