fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Elmehdi on June 11, 2011, 04:07:55 pm
-
While searching the boards for some information on how combat system will look like after wipe, I came across the following quote:
Reducing crits effects is how perks will work, armour will reduce the chance.
You can find the whole discussion here (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=13861.msg122525#msg122525).
At the moment there is in fact no difference for a SG sniper if his target wears an armor or not, so the idea of armor giving some protection against critical hits seems very reasonable. However there is one little adjustment that could be considered. Rather than reducing an attacker’s critical chance, I think it would work better if armor reduced an attacker’s critical roll against the target. This way critical builds would still cause increased and reliable damage, but a chance for some extra effect (KO, KD, bypass, blinded or cripple) would be significantly reduced while shooting at a well armored target.
The reason for this suggestion is that it would be pretty annoying for any critical build not to be able to even score a critical hit on the opponent. 10 shots in row with not a single critical scored would probably cause a ragequit for most of the snipers. With the suggestion implemented, snipers would still inflict criticals very often but with the effect much reduced. This solution would drasticly decrease a random factor in PvP fights outcomes which is very high at the moment.
For those who don’t know what a critical roll is here (http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_hit_tables) is the explanation.
Please write what you think.
-
Some closed beta would be cool.
-
I think it should do both, lessen the chance to be criticaly hit and also lessen the effect of the critical hit
-
I think it should do both, lessen the chance to be criticaly hit and also lessen the effect of the critical hit
You love Big Guns, don't you?
-
Critical hits are too often in current system. Almost 95% chance to get critical hit? Its like WTF. At least snipers would be nerfed... Good for future pvp system. Good decision by Solar.
Och and i think same as Sarakin.
-
You love Big Guns, don't you?
The thing is, when stuff gets competitive random occurances are just an annoyance. Team Fortress 2 competitive scene has turned off random high damage critical shots because they gave undeserved benefits randomly. No need to draw the "lol quake" card, i know tf2 is fps and fonline is supposed to be something else. The point is that when players start to match each others skills, randomness just makes everybody frustrated.
No need to draw the "lol let pvp apes suffer" card either, because they are the most active set of players there is.
Crits wouldn't matter if they weren't so severe. But they happen to be matter of life and death since you either die or knockout/cripple the enemy.
-
You love Big Guns, don't you?
It's considered a crime of some sort?
-
You love Big Guns, don't you?
As a matter of fact I do, but I play both sniper and bgunner regularly (or I used to play). If someone is suggesting that armor should reduce only crit. chance by f.e. 20%, I think it would be better to reduce it just by 10%, but also crit. roll could be reduced by f.e. 10.
I dont know if you are aware of it, but good armor would also help against big gunners with their instakill crits.
-
Remove the one shot kill critical hit!!!
-
Remove the one shot kill critical hit!!!
UNlock HP lvlcap...
Anyway after wipe if lvl 24 will be max You will be able to have around 270HP with 10EN and 2x LG (+30,+40HP).
-
I dont know if you are aware of it, but good armor would also help against big gunners with their instakill crits.
BG Bursters rely on damage, a critical hit would only be a bonus for their attack. Snipers rely on crits, harm crits and snipers become quite useless.
O (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=16652.msg139300#msg139300)
-
I don't see how you can make a statement about harming crits=snipers useless, I haven't seen any info about how badly armor/perks will affect critical chances, Sure it will reduce it but if it reduces critical chance to eyes down to 80% that's still pretty fucking high. The only problem i could see is if it reduced leg/arm targeting by the same amount as aiming for the head/eyes and making it nearly impossible to critical against those body parts, as long as those values don't get reduced to non existence it should be fine. I enjoy hearing about how they are making high "dodge/AC" characters possible, making another build than common ones and if this creates BG builds that go anti crit I'm all for it since taking enough of whatever perks needed will undoubtedly reduce their effectiveness against bursters/other builds.
Then again thats me making an assumption that it would take multiple perks +good armor to have a good anti crit character. If these changes are too drastic and criticals get reduced too much I'm sure a patch a few days after the forum is flooded by bitching snipers would weaken anti crit perks or armor anti crit.
Reducing the critical hit roll could be ok...but I think that should involve a perk and not armors.
-
BG Bursters rely on damage, a critical hit would only be a bonus for their attack. Snipers rely on crits, harm crits and snipers become quite useless.
Yes, Im just stating that its not only a nerf to snipers. With 10% average crit on bgunner, having armor reduce of 10% to critical chance would make you immune to crits from bursts.
-
Yes, Im just stating that its not only a nerf to snipers. With 10% average crit on bgunner, having armor reduce of 10% to critical chance would make you immune to crits from bursts.
anyway a 10%crit in a BG is almost useless.
but builts like Critical bursters or critical rocketers will be seriously affected, most of them have 30% wich will be lowed to 20%. 1/5 shots.
also is pointless to do a discussion like this if we dnt know the values of the new armors, or perks or whatever will come out after wipe
-
Im fairly certain they already stated that implementation of 3d will allow for stuff like helmets which will effect crits.
-
Criticals arre OK, that is the reason why players play as snipers. If you remove criticals or lower critical chances, there would be less snipers and every player would play as BG, rocketeer... all characters would be the same...
-
Criticals arre OK, that is the reason why players play as snipers. If you remove criticals or lower critical chances, there would be less snipers and every player would play as BG, rocketeer... all characters would be the same...
same uhmmm you mean balanced oh noez :P
-
We already know stats on DR after change. It's still not known whether Sniper Rifle (or anything else) is going to do same or different damage, but you can be fairly sure that non-critical damage would still be way too low. The same applies to laser weapons as well, however you can note that they're exceptionaly weaker vs metal armors while somewhat better vs leather armors (though nobody knows what will you TC with).
Unless you think it should take more than 10 shots to kill one guy, criticals should be there.
-
Critical hits are too often in current system. Almost 95% chance to get critical hit? Its like WTF.
Only when fineese sniper scores a direct eyeshot, which may be a bit tricky as most BG will have mad armor class after the update. Anyway, extremely high critical chance i required for succesful sniping and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it - as far as the critical effects aren't as devastating as they are now.
The only problem i could see is if it reduced leg/arm targeting by the same amount as aiming for the head/eyes and making it nearly impossible to critical against those body parts, as long as those values don't get reduced to non existence it should be fine.
It is possible that a critical chance penalty for wearing an armor will be different for each bodypart (actually it could be considered as a bug if it wasn't). It is plenty of work to balance it properly though. On the other hand, reducing a critical roll seems much easier and elegant solution, which would still grant snipers an essential critical chance along with a good, reliable damage multiplier instead of a lottery each shoot. Even a leather armor could give -20 to a critical roll which would assure 100% protection against insta kills and substantially decrease an efficiency of any other critic. If we reduce only a critical chance – the most devastating (and frustrating) critical hits will occur as always, just a bit less frequently, and it’s my opinion that such misfortune should happen only to non armored players.
-
I think having a 2 perks that cancel each other out is completely useless. So now we will have a "better critical" perk and a "lower critical" perk?
-
With that logic wouldn't Lifegiver 10 cancle out BRD collectively?
To have a "Give me more health perk" and counter your "10mm smg bluesuit deathsquad-pro-elite-pk gank in protected towns".
-
After beginning to work on it, I think I will likely use both less crit chance and less crit effect. The reason being it is easier to make the different types of armour distinct from each other without just making it a sliding scale of "better".
I basically want to make it so Leather and Metal Armours are approximatly as useful as each other and form the main armours you will see in battle. To this end I've equalised the normal damage, left metal good vs lasers and increased the effect leather armour has vs explosives and flame. In a similar way I think I will have metal better at lowering crit chance and leather better at lowering crit effect.
Then there will be CA as a level above that and slight boosts upon CA for CAII, BoS CA, Enclave CA, Ranger CA (and unique abilities for Enviro Armour)
It is also worth having better critical perk and lower critical perk (or perks, traits and armours) becasue you then have an increased range of options.
better crits vs normal
better crits vs lower crits
normal crits vs normal
better crits vs lower crits
Options is the post wipe buzz word!
-
but if you think about the bluesuit itself... i mean, Critical Hits are too high for those. The beginner's (and other people) with low armor's will be ****ed up then
Ps. Solar, check PM
-
but if you think about the bluesuit itself... i mean, Critical Hits are too high for those. The beginner's (and other people) with low armor's will be ****ed up then
Ps. Solar, check PM
He just said leather armor will receive a good boost, most people can afford these. Also, I can't understand how some people can't even hang around in metal when we don't even loot anymore these metals cause we have too much of it. It's really not an expansive armor.
-
With that logic wouldn't Lifegiver 10 cancle out BRD collectively?
To have a "Give me more health perk" and counter your "10mm smg bluesuit deathsquad-pro-elite-pk gank in protected towns".
Speaking of BRD, any plans to make it useful for single shots as well (eg. tactics version)?
-
Speaking of BRD, any plans to make it useful for single shots as well (eg. tactics version)?
Single shots to be effective require 3D for reasons regarding animation speed.
in other words we need 3D for people to shoot fast enough for single shot builds to be effective.
At least afaik.
-
Single shots to be effective require 3D for reasons regarding animation speed.
in other words we need 3D for people to shoot fast enough for single shot builds to be effective.
At least afaik.
It is fast enough, but I don't like getting 2/4 extra points damage when avenger will get 40x that much bonus from same perk.
In tactics it adds 15%/30% damage boost instead.
-
It is fast enough, but I don't like getting 2/4 extra points damage when avenger will get 40x that much bonus from same perk.
In tactics it adds 15%/30% damage boost instead.
Did it? Been a while since I played it, but the vault doesn't mention it.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fast_Shot
I was actually thinking of flattening out the damage boosts from crits and then adding a % boost to fast shot, to ensure fast shot was a better dps option and crits were made more reliable (as too much randomness seems to be a common complaint)
-
I hope you all talking about Bonus Range Damage and not Bonus rate of Fire, sometimes for some reason some people somewhat take BRD as BROF.
-
Just don't forget about finesse pistol cripplers! They have shorter range then snipers, high AG/jet, and really need crits to have any chance to survive a BG encounter. Even with the critical system we have now it's very hard for pistol cripplers to compete.
-
does the damage bonus from fast shoot gonna count per every single bullet ? so when im bursting with LSW (10 bullits) its grand total x10 ?
-
You cannot aim with bursts...
-
I was actually thinking of flattening out the damage boosts from crits
:o :o :o Please NOOO!!! It makes sense some crits are better then others, not all crits should be equal!!! I think crit tables, and crit effects are perfect as they are.
-
Flattening out, not making equal. In practise it would just be a little bumping up of the lower critical effects multipliers.
There are also a few little bits to change in the effects to punish SPECIAL dumping a little bit too, now that perk requirements are going to be relaxed.