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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Heckler Spray on June 02, 2011, 10:14:08 am
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I don't know if it has been already suggested, but....
First of all....Do you remember in Fallout, everytime you got a better armor, you were feeling a little safer, right ? This feeling is not that obvious in FOnline, because :
- Most of the fights are in real time, so you always get damages really fast.
-the main threat comes from other players, and most of them are way more dangerous than old Fallout's NPCs. They can kill you in 2 clicks with all their bonus perks, critical chances, buffered weapons....
-Armors can't protect you from those strikes, because they haven't been upgraded like the weapons. Your survival rate mainly depends on your Hit Points.
Next wipe we will probably have new perks to compensate this deficiency, but instead of perks, maybe the game just needs armors to do their job, no ?
From this perspective, maybe armors should need :
- a general damage resistance increase.
- a resistance to critical damages depending on their grade. Something like this :
1. Robes have no resistance bonus.
2. Leather jackets have (let's say) +30% resistance to critical damages concerning aimed shots at torso.
3. Leather armors have +30% resistance to critical damages concerning aimed shots at torso, groin, and legs.
4. Metal armors have +30% resistance to critical damages concerning aimed shots at torso, groin, legs and arms.
5. Combat armors have +30% resistance to critical damages concerning aimed shots at torso, groin, legs, arms, and head.
6. Power armors have +30% resistance to critical damages concerning aimed shots at torso, groin, legs, arms, head, and eyes.
Numbers here are random, of course they would need some tests. Percentages could also be changed for thresholds, don't know which is better in this case.
Maybe this way we would have less bluesuit guys running across the Wasteland....
What do you think about this suggestion ?
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Good idea, i like it.
But You will hear that after WIPE you will have access to anit-crit perks, You will also hear that all snipers will suffer and some other shit.
Idea is good but i doubt to see it in game.
I heard some rumors about HELMETs with something like your suggestion - but helmets will be avaible in 3D era.
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This is pretty much the case already for next wipe. (AFAIK ofc)
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This is pretty much the case already for next wipe. (AFAIK ofc)
Are you talking about the hemet or the whole armor ? Are you sure it would affect the critical damages or the critical chance to hit of the striker ?
Yeah, DocAN, I've heard about the post wipe anti-crit perks, but I think improving the armors would be an interesting lead. And it would be possible to implement this kind of suggestion even without the 3d thing.
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Armors will be buffed after wipe.
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I guess, but how ? Do you have any specific informations about these changes ?
Upgrading the general damage resistance won't change the current problem that much, because most of the hits are criticals.
That's why I'm suggesting to boost the critical damage resistance.
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This is pretty much the case already for next wipe. (AFAIK ofc)
I guess, but how ?
There will be slight tweaking of the DR/DT values. Generally the effect will to be make Leather Armours more equal to Metal in terms of normal damage, Metal remain better vs Laser and Leather to be better bs Explosive and Fire. CA will be the top armour readily available and then CAII/BoS/Enclave/Rangers will be pretty similar to each other but have slightly better values vs certain things (won't be a massive effect).
Then, there will be the crit modifier that I've mentioned before - both for Helmets and Armours. Its possible for us to reduce the crit chance (this will happen for all armours and helmets to varying degrees) and the crit effect (I'm not sure if I will use this yet, maybe when we have lots of different helmet types).
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Ok, thanks a lot for the informations, dear Solar. It sounds really interesting, especially the special protection thing.
I suppose you won't reveal any number, but should we expect a visible change in the armors damage resistance ?
About the critical thing : as I understand, it will moslty affect the critical chance and the critical effects, which means damage multiplier, crippling and knocking occurrences, right ?
Don't you think the current critical tables, except the instant kill, are good/balanced as they are now ?
Don't you think it would be a good option to reduce the final damage outcome from a critical hit with this kind of protecting system ?
About the helmets : will they give a bonus to the Armor Class, the general damage resistance, both, or only a specific resistance against aimed shot (head/eyes) ?
I know I'm a bit pig-headed about my suggestion, but I only make one per year, so I feel the need to defend it. Sorry if this topic is getting boring. :P
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Pistol Cripplers will be useless. As a pistol crippler I must score a knockout, cripple arm, or die. BG Bursts FTW!
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Pistol Cripplers will be useless. As a pistol crippler I must score a knockout, cripple arm, or die. BG Bursts FTW!
I fear this too. Some builds might become so crit-resistant that cripler won't stand a chance. There are ways to resist bursts but even the strongest burst protection shatters after 2-3 1hex bursts.
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I fear the next era will be BG era... But I keep the faith...
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I fear next era will be epic fail era
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I fear next era will be epic fail era
this era was epic fail era, i do not think there will be other one whorst than this
never mind, i didn't play only at the end of last and this era
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As inspiring as ever to read the forum.
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Solar save us from that lame crits.
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As inspiring as ever to read the forum.
Bah soz about uninspiring comments. We should all just stfu and wait for the wipe.
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I suppose you won't reveal any number, but should we expect a visible change in the armors damage resistance ?
Can't find my nice neat spreadsheet dedicated to the armour, so try and decypher these table of numbers.
None LJ LA LA2 CLJ M M2 Tesla CA CA2 BCA
DR 0 20 25 30 25 25 30 25 40 40 40
DR-En 0 20 20 20 20 75 80 85 60 65 65
DR-P 0 10 10 10 10 20 25 75 50 50 50
DR-F 0 20 30 35 40 10 10 10 25 30 35
DR-Ex 0 20 30 35 30 20 25 20 40 40 45
DR-El 0 30 30 40 30 0 10 80 45 50 50
None LJ LA LA2 CLJ M M2 Tesla CA CA2 BCA
DT 0 0 3 4 2 2 3 3 5 6 7
DT-En 0 0 0 0 0 6 7 10 6 7 7
DT-P 0 0 0 0 0 4 4 10 4 5 5
DT-F 0 0 3 4 4 0 0 0 3 4 5
DT-Ex 0 0 3 4 2 1 2 1 5 6 7
DT_Elect 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 12 2 3 3
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Well, general small nerfs here and there, some +5% and -5%. Interesting changes:
For MA II: -5% DR normal -1DT, -5% DR Fire and Explosions.
For BA: -1DT normal, -5% DR laser, -10% DR Plasma, -15% DR Fire, +5% DR explosives, -10% DR electric
Not much, general small nerf of resistances. The bonuses against explosives won't affect AP rocket, as it's still under 50%.
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The bonuses against explosives won't affect AP rocket, as it's still under 50%
They will be 0% and -25%, so they will.
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What about armor's anti critical ability? effect critical tables or chance to critical?
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See my post earlier in the thread about it.
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You stated that the advanced Ca variants will provide better protection against different dmg types but if im reading those numbers right Ba is better than Ca2 against everything. Is this intended or am i missing something.
I look forward to seeing some variation in what people wear once money is no object rather than hordes of Ba.
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You stated that the advanced Ca variants will provide better protection against different dmg types but if im reading those numbers right Ba is better than Ca2 against everything. Is this intended or am i missing something.
I look forward to seeing some variation in what people wear once money is no object rather than hordes of Ba.
It's because we don't have the stats of the new armors (Ranger CA and Enclave CA), which will be alternatives high tier armors.
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Yes, ca 2 is vanilla and the other 3 have little boosts in different areas
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LJ has 0 DT and 0 DR for all damage types?
Is LJ Leather Jacket or Ligthblue Jumpsuit?
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LJ has 0 DT and 0 DR for all damage types?
Is LJ Leather Jacket or Ligthblue Jumpsuit?
It's "None" which have 0DR and DT everywhere. Wait, I made a more readable sheet, gonna post it soon.
Edit : here you go
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8158/drnew.png)
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I prefer table which include DR and DT stats, so I made one. Here it is:
(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/6636/arm.png)
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Before wipe* After wipe
Normal : 40/8 Normal : 40/7
Laser : 70/8 Laser : 65/7
Fire : 50/7 Fire : 35/5
Plasma : 60/7 Plasma : 50/5
Explode : 40/8 Explode : 45/7
Electrical : 60/6 Electrical : 60/6
*info from our wiki
BCA quite nerfed.
Solar could you show us stats for Enclave Combat Armor?
New metal armor is like WTF ;D No one would use it. Armors are useless against aimed EW weapons. Bypass, bypass, bypass...
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I've made a table too, this one includes delta values as well, so it shows the magnitude of changes.
New armor resistances DR / DT (Change in comparison to the current state)
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4492/restable.png)
Bigger image >> http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4492/restable.png (http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4492/restable.png)
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I liked the part where they posted the charts.
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I liked the part where they posted the charts.
Work blocks the charts, which makes the thread look pretty funny :)
New metal armor is like WTF No one would use it. Armors are useless against aimed EW weapons. Bypass, bypass, bypass...
CritMod, CritMod, CritMod :P
Or
Gatling Laser, Gatling Laser, Gatliing Laser (I like this one :)) :P
Solar could you show us stats for Enclave Combat Armor?
They would be on the dedicated armour spreadsheet which I don't have at the moment. Its pretty simple though, BCA and Enclave are CAII with slight boosts - I think BCA was boost to normal and explosive and enclave was to plasma. Been a while since I did them though - those that can see the charts can tell you what BCA is slightly boosted against
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Then, there will be the crit modifier that I've mentioned before - both for Helmets and Armours. Its possible for us to reduce the crit chance (this will happen for all armours and helmets to varying degrees) and the crit effect (I'm not sure if I will use this yet, maybe when we have lots of different helmet types).
I'm concerned about this change. At the moment snipers/criplers rely mostly on crit chance. When it comes to BG vs SG the only way to win the fight is to get critical. Moreover big gunners are already more powerful than SG and are more likely to win 1vs1 combat. If the critical chance gonna be lessened then sniper and crippler build, and in general small gunners, well maybe apart from 3x bursters are going to be pretty much useless :/
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Firehand I suggest you to wait for full wipe changelog before whine.
CritMod. maybe some charts about it? ;D
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CritMod. maybe some charts about it?
Not made them yet, which makes the complaints about their power quite funny - seems things no longer even need to exist before they can be complained about :)
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I wonder how rare are combat armors going to be if gatling laser is supposed to be useful weapon.
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Firehand I suggest you to wait for full wipe changelog before whine.
CritMod. maybe some charts about it? ;D
Well manero, you obvioulsy misunderstood what i have written. The thing is that at the moment small gunners are already weaker than big gunners. So i hope there's going to be some compensation to small gunners. I understand also that critical hits to many people seems unfair, but in the same time when you deal 2 bursts in a turn and kill the opponent it's fine. Bursts deal a great amount of damage, but small gunners like snipers/criplers don't have that powerful weapons, so without high cirtical chance they are helpless against big gunners. In my opinion, either the critical chance should stay high or the damage dealt by snipers/criplers should be increased significantly.
Not made them yet, which makes the complaints about their power quite funny - seems things no longer even need to exist before they can be complained about :)
Well, my previous post was a result of a concern and I think it's better to post concerns before something happens, because they are generally more useful then :)
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The thing is that at the moment small gunners are already weaker than big gunners.
Stop hiding Gauss pistols in tent and use it. Its top weapon in game and its SG.
Also take P90 (2 or 3 bursts) and and try it vs BG, same with 223. pistol (2 eye shots).
Stop whining !
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Well manero, you obvioulsy misunderstood what i have written. The thing is that at the moment small gunners are already weaker than big gunners.
Mmmmmh.... No? Not at all actually, it's reverse.
So i hope there's going to be some compensation to small gunners. I understand also that critical hits to many people seems unfair, but in the same time when you deal 2 bursts in a turn and kill the opponent it's fine.
You can't make a 2 burst 1 kill anymore since much time.
Bursts deal a great amount of damage, but small gunners like snipers/criplers don't have that powerful weapons, so without high cirtical chance they are helpless against big gunners. In my opinion, either the critical chance should stay high or the damage dealt by snipers/criplers should be increased significantly.
Don't have powerful weapon? DKS, gauss pistol, .223 pistol are great weapons, and can easily beat a big gunner right now.
But it's pointless to complain about system which gonna be totally changed. What we really want is MOAR CHARTS FROM SOLAR!
Come on, make us dream, more info about this brand new awesome system !
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Maybe we shoud try to stick to the topic : ARMORS.
Thanks for all those precious infos, Solar.
So we will have a little boost to "low" armors, a little decrease to the "top" armors, and two new armors. And we will have few new perks against evil crits.
Ok.
But I'm not sure those changes will be that visible on the battlefield.
I mean, the survival rate will more depend on HP than armors, like now.
And we all know which kind of character has more HP than others.
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Hopeully enough is changed that noone knows how it will work. There's more scope to defend vs crippling - but also more room to get HP or DR vs bursters.
There's going to be a way to be very hard to hit (hopefully allowing low range weapons to be a real factor), sneak will be available to lots more people but be more situational (again hopefully allowing low range to shine)
A dedicated medic will really be able to heal lots of HP (combined with the greater durability in general, meaning more heals per life too).
Then you have a totally new merc system to add onto that.
Loads of variables are changing, I don't pretend that it will be perfect balance because there is little chance - but changing these attributes isn't what takes the time, so we can refine these things via playtesting quite quickly. What is important at this stage is we create more options that are viable.