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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Graf on April 20, 2011, 12:30:39 pm
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After reading of an interview on the NMA and a lots of other topics related to the improving experience, I've started thinking how to do it easily and painlessly. Think what you do first, after creating of the character? You are appearing in the cave or basement, where you've had some mat, bookshelves and other useless (for now) things. But it's could be a place to live for the newbies! I see no reason, why the place, where character was "born" couldn't be seen by him after he leaves it. It could be a place, where he would stay before creating of his very first tent or buying a base. This place also could have a holodisk with some recommendations, how to start the game:
Hi, matey! It's Metzger. If you're reading this, then you've most likely just wake up and barely remember who you are and where you are from.
That's ok, because some time ago, you've found some problems for ya ass, and barely survived it. We've helped you as we could and left you here.
Once you will feel yourself ok, move to the closest city (PipBoy will show ya a map, once you leave that place) and ask someone for a job.
It may happen so, that you've forget how to behave yourself in a city, so here's some tips:
- You can get a few caps for a shit shoveling or helping to the caravan leader
- Watch your back! Thieves are all around, so you may loose everything in a matter of a few moments.
- Take a look at the billboards, there could be some decent info about of the people hiring such douches as you are.
- You can make some stuff with your FixBoy (it's installed in your PipBoy by default).
When you'll feel that you've remembered everything, move your ass to the Den, I'll give you some job, you muthafucker, I always hire a nice guys in my lil city. Got it?
You may ask - why to create a tent if I already have a hideout? The answer is simple - there is bonfire, which (in my suggestion) should give you an ability to craft a little more stuff, than without of it. Also, the tent could be located anywhere on the map, while this cave (or anything else) is restricted to stay in a single place.
On the exit from that cave, there should be some rats or mantis, killing which will help a new player to get his very first level.
That's all for now. Please comment (only reasonable comments are welcome)
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I do see one problem with this, alts that never even make a tent will now take up more map space with this. But nevertheless I voted yes.
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Why would I, as New Player #2392039 create a tent if I'd already have cool looking map with all the space I need right infront of my eyes? The bonfire isn't in use at all, I am talking about how things are right now. Tents would get rendered useless.
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You may ask - why to create a tent if I already have a hideout? The answer is simple - there is bonfire, which (in my suggestion) should give you an ability to craft a little more stuff, than without of it. Also, the tent could be located anywhere on the map, while this cave (or anything else) is restricted to stay in a single place. That's all for now.
Please comment (only reasonable comments are welcome)
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Those starting locations are capped to certain locations already, all near some towns.
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Those starting locations are capped to certain locations already, all near some towns.
Meby not the town they want? At least it'll give them a reason to stick around.
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The point still stands.. There are too many upsides and not enough downsides in the suggestion. Make the map disappear after ~3 days maybe, so that the guys need to setup a tent, but still have enough time to collect the needed materials.
I personally find the suggestion useless, as it is already piss easy to just rent a hotel room or similar stuff. After the update the issue with too less space in hotels will be gone aswell, so another reason not to use such "noob" hideouts.
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Make the map disappear after ~3 days maybe, so that the guys need to setup a tent, but still have enough time to collect the needed materials.
3 days is a way too little. It shouldn't be less then a month, because not everyone is playing the game every 1-3 days. This is especially related to the newbies.
I personally find the suggestion useless, as it is already piss easy to just rent a hotel room or similar stuff. After the update the issue with too less space in hotels will be gone aswell, so another reason not to use such "noob" hideouts.
I've suggested it, because there was a lot of discussions around, about the fact, that this game is very hard for the beginners, which is often makes them stop playing after a few hours (days, weeks). This game is too harsh now (which is good for me, but not as good for the newbies). Also, hotel rooms isn't free at all, while I'm suggesting the place to learn very basics of the game.
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Not free you say? You do the Box lifting assignment, there you have your caps. This doesn't even take 5 minutes. Giving away stuff for free isn't "noob friendly", it's just bad.
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Giving away stuff for free isn't "noob friendly", it's just bad.
I see nothing bad in helping newbies and explaining them how to play. But I understood your opinion. Now please, let others tell what they think.
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why the last option says n00bs, is supposed to be newbies
and i think that newbies only deserve suffering, why? because all the games are very friendly aand everyone can play it, but this game no, so if youre a newbie and have a brave heart (lol) you will deserve to grow up and become powerful, if not then just stop of play.
You must win play fonline,
thats what i think
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Make the map disappear after ~3 days maybe, so that the guys need to setup a tent, but still have enough time to collect the needed materials.
Agree
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As surf said :
There are too many upsides and not enough downsides in the suggestion.
Plus I like how it is now, I started not long ago. The start was really painfull but when I created my first tent, it was like christmas. You need to have a strong will to face the wasteland. And fighting for brahmin hides is, imo a good test.
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Make it shared, like for example an old prison seen by all of the new chars. Each has its own cell, then after some time (when he reaches certain lvl ) he is kicked out.
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Reiniat, I can barely understand what you've said, but it looks like you're trying to say that Fonline is for those who are able to pass the test by suffering, right? If so, then I disagree with you, because it shouldn't scare people away, while now it is, and this is the reason why we have so low number of people online. People just come, see that they can understood nothing and leave.
Fusei, well, I'm glad that you didn't stopped playing after a while. Consider yourself as a one who have passed the test by the wasteland. But it changes nothing, most people which came to Fonline by casualty needs some basic explanation how to play THIS.
spike allen, the idea is good, but it's a little bit different from what I'm suggesting. Moreover, that kind of location was suggested many times already and was rejected by saying something like "Ya N00b, GTFO suffer, lol" Also, there is an NCR for these at purposes, as well as the other guarded houses, while I'm saying about the very very first start location.
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the cave ideea i do not like, but the holodisk is a good ideea. not necesarely from Mentzment, but for diferent sources, like FotA,Shi,Mordino,NCR,VC and other places
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We have low numbers online mostly because all alternatives to spend your time here are gone for now, because if there's something left to achieve, you'll stay and achieve it, if people are leaving, then they simply don't know what Fallout is, and probably accidentally found FOnline, of couse FOnline will be very strange game for those who never played original Fallouts 1 and 2. Also some Fallout3/NV players can start playing FOnline, but after seeing it's 2D graphic they're leaving, it's thier problems, not problems of "harshness". If player leaving instantly after failing in achieving something and he is Fallout player, then he can't or don't know how to lose, then multiplayer game isn't for him, let him play save/load single player games where he's chosen one and center of world.
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LagMaster, Absolutely. This is just a "sketch" of a real suggestion. If necessary I can write the similar thing for the other factions. But, what's the problem with the cave? Why not to let people to have it for some time?
RavenousRat, You're right in some points, but I'm trying to take care of the new people, not experienced players (as you've said all alternatives are gone, which is true for the experienced players, not newbies) I'm pretty sure, that they are leaving after a while, because they don't understand how to play this, why everyone want to kill them, and how to avenge them. So, with that suggestion I'm trying to help them with the first part. Maybe you should read some feedback from the newbies, to understand my points.
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Most of them are enthusiastic at the start and leave because they see so many morons, not solely for the reason that it's too hard.
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Most of them are enthusiastic at the start and leave because they see so many morons, not solely for the reason that it's too hard.
Yeah, but you can't get rid off morons, can you? But you can make in-game start easier, one obstacle less.
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We have low numbers online mostly because all alternatives to spend your time here are gone for now, because if there's something left to achieve, you'll stay and achieve it, if people are leaving, then they simply don't know what Fallout is, and probably accidentally found FOnline, of couse FOnline will be very strange game for those who never played original Fallouts 1 and 2. Also some Fallout3/NV players can start playing FOnline, but after seeing it's 2D graphic they're leaving, it's thier problems, not problems of "harshness". If player leaving instantly after failing in achieving something and he is Fallout player, then he can't or don't know how to lose, then multiplayer game isn't for him, let him play save/load single player games where he's chosen one and center of world.
This pretty much sums up most of my thoughts.
Without the " harshness " i can't imagine this game any better than other MMORPG''s , i like it is " raw " uncut , hardcore for new players you are thrown out in the wasteland you don't know shit to do or where are you , you are forced to interact with players , gain information , make friends in order to survive , when somebody gives you your first leather armor2 it is just " Whoaaah " , i don't want to make life easier for new players in my opinion it would spoil the game expierence.
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I often ask myself what's so "hardcore" to begin with, especially as you can just, as already pointed out, buy a damn hotel room almost "for free".. You can even just do some box lifting and buy those fucking hides from some player. Why is this considered "hardcore"?
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I often ask myself what's so "hardcore" to begin with, especially as you can just, as already pointed out, buy a damn hotel room almost "for free".. You can even just do some box lifting and buy those fucking hides from some player. Why is this considered "hardcore"?
New players don't even know where to lift those boxes or even where to find information about it , your blind what to do. Alright so you get your tent gather junk for days with your small knowledge of the game shotguns , desert eagles etc etc. then one day that player gets tent raped by a follower - sounds pretty harsh and hardcore to me.
I still remember 2 months ago when i was a newbie , I almost lost my nerves playing this game , crafted sawed-off shotguns and 12GA ammo for 1 and a half hour then one thief takes it away in few seconds , every shit you loose at the begining of the game feels like you lost something very important.
You never been a newbie ? :D
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One of the spawning locations is near hub. Naturally new players would visit this town, right? Interested players would talk to NPC. The guy giving this assignment is right at the fucking entrance. It's not the games fault if people are too stupid to read. Same goes for other starting locations aswell. They all send you to a town nearby with a small assignment to earn early caps, caps spent on hotel rooms or brahmin hides. Again, it's not the games fault.
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One of the spawning locations is near hub. Naturally new players would visit this town, right? Interested players would talk to NPC. The guy giving this assignment is right at the fucking entrance.
Does he constantly yell out he's got a job for someone strong? No. Unless you see players doing something near there and ask them about it the player isn't going to know about it.... Besides not every player has enough strength to do this quest. so :).
It's not the games fault if people are too stupid to read. Same goes for other starting locations aswell. They all send you to a town nearby with a small assignment to earn early caps, caps spent on hotel rooms or brahmin hides. Again, it's not the games fault.
How do they even know about hotel rooms? Shit! I didn't even know how to make the tent when I got my freaking hides the first time!
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They all send you to a town nearby with a small assignment to earn early caps, caps spent on hotel rooms or brahmin hides. Again, it's not the games fault.
There were no free hotel rooms few hours after last wipe. Blame newcomers for not renting them.
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Does he constantly yell out he's got a job for someone strong? No. Unless you see players doing something near there and ask them about it the player isn't going to know about it....
Yeah, because it's not very common in RPG games to try to talk with people. ::) The game isn't for people who dig quest compasses, "press button and something awesome happens" or with attention spans of a drunken monkey. Not the games fault. There is no handholding.
Besides not every player has enough strength to do this quest. so :).
Yes! There is ofcourse only one option to earn money, totally.
How do they know about hotel rooms? Shit! I didn't even know how to make the tent when I got my freaking hides the first time!
If you'd read the manual then you'd have known that there are hotel rooms. It's been even feautured in Promovideos beforehand. Again, the game isn't responsible for your lack of awareness.
There were no free hotel rooms few hours after last wipe. Blame newcomers for not renting them.
I already said that this will be a non-issue after the update.
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Yeah, because it's not very common in RPG games to try to talk with people. ::) The game isn't for people who dig quest compasses, "press button and something awesome happens" or with attention spans of a drunken monkey. Not the games fault. There is no handholding.
How does it make sense to talk to every single npc in the world? In the real world you would end up gettin beat up for having such a loudmouth.
Yes! There is ofcourse only one option to earn money, totally.
then stop acting like it!!! It's the only example you used, Twice! xD
If you'd read the manual then you'd have known that there are hotel rooms. It's been even feautured in Promovideos beforehand.
There is a difference between reading a manual and getting a tutorial ingame. Manual is extremely boring, and in fonline's case, just as long. Promovideos? Where do I find these when looking on forum? They're on youtube aren't they?
Again, the game isn't responsible for your lack of awareness.
Yes, it is. It is supposed to give a basic tutorial.
I already said that this will be a non-issue after the update.
yayyyy.
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How does it make sense to talk to every single npc in the world?
Never played any RPG, haven't you? Or do you play it so that you can pew pew all the NPC? Cool!
In the real world you would end up gettin beat up for having such a loudmouth.
We are not talking about the real world. Making shit up again, do we?
There is a difference between reading a manual and getting a tutorial ingame. Manual is extremely boring, and in fonline's case, just as long.
Your problem then, not the manuals problem. Back in the days, the manuals were even bigger and detailed, people read them all the day before installing the actual game to learn how it is played. There was no Tutorial in Fallout either. It was awesome - and I highly doubt that we will ever go the handholding route with thoroughly explained ingame tutorials. Again - problem of you, apparently belonging to a newer generation of teenage gamers with short attention spans.
Yes, it is. It is supposed to give a basic tutorial.
Interesting, by what standards?
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Never played any RPG, haven't you? Or do you play it so that you can pew pew all the NPC? Cool!
No, RPGs are my favorite genre then horror-survival, I enjoy roleplaying "Raider, Group leader (Treasure hunters basically), and your generic White Knight. And I have played fo2, beat it, was realy fun but I got a bit utterly confused at times :P. And of course killing the npcs was very fun, but I am well-aware that this is not even half the game or even a part of the game if you choose.
We are not talking about the real world. Making shit up again, do we?
Uh, if I said one of those "Fuck you" lines in fo2 I would get attacked. If I suddenly went up to some guy in the real world and said "Fuck you" chances are I would get attacked as well. See the resemblance?
Your problem then, not the manuals problem. Back in the days, the manuals were even bigger and detailed, people read them all the day before installing the actual game to learn how it is played. There was no Tutorial in Fallout either. It was awesome - and I highly doubt that we will ever go the handholding route with thoroughly explained ingame tutorials. Again - problem of you, apparently belonging to a newer generation of teenage gamers with short attention spans.
Ohoho, personal insults now... anyways, fo2 did have a subtle tutorial, although it didn't hold your hand though it. (e.g. the temple of trials)
Interesting, by what standards?
Well, I did say basics.... so unlesss you are referring to something else.
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Interesting, by what standards?
By the standards of modern games? It doesn't matter that Fonline is based on the 13-year old game. It should follow some basic rules, set by the industry, to be successful.
P.S. Surf, what's the problem with you? You aren't satisfied with the real life? Why you should put your word in EVERY SINGLE TOPIC, especially if you are NOT playing this game as a normal player, without of using a GM account? Which means, that you can't soberly assess the situation.
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And I have played fo2, beat it, was realy fun but I got a bit utterly confused at times :P.
Fallout 2 is the only roleplaying game on the world? Why am I not surprised at the bold part. Spares me energy though, having not to bother talking with you about RPGs anymore.
Ohoho, personal insults now...
Calling someone a teenager or part of a younger generation is now an insult? Must've missed something. It's a fact that modern games get catered for exact this audience, with said shorter attention spans.
anyways, fo2 did have a subtle tutorial, although it didn't hold your hand though it.
Black Isle was forced by the Publisher to implement such a tutorial in last minute. It was not the developers will to include it.
By the standards of modern games? It doesn't matter that Fonline is based on the 13-year old game. It should follow some basic rules, set by the industry, to be successful.
I didn't know that we are trying to sell the game. As for the utterly inane mentioning of "industry standards" - I already wrote above which audience these are catered to.
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I didn't know that we are trying to sell the game. As for the utterly inane mentioning of "industry standards" - I already wrote above which audience these are catered to.
Did I said "sell" somewhere? No I didn't, because I know that it's an indie game, which wasn't made with aim to sell it. Nevertheless, it should somehow obey industry standards.
Now, let's stop this useless discussion, because anyway everyone will stay with its opinion. Let our dear developers decide whether we need such feature or not.
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Now, let's stop this useless discussion, because anyway everyone will stay with its opinion. Let our dear developers decide whether we need such feature or not.
Yeah, lets just drop it before we end up taking up 2 more pages...
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But anyway, this topic should stay open, in case if someone who's playing for not so long wants to share its opinion.
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There is no handholding.
So players are leaving (http://www.rookie.name/fonline/playerStats.php?r=year&s=1303451394&ts=0&ar=0&step=12), not only because of anonymous "morons", boredom or whatever. Guess how many people told me they would leave after day or so, if we never met? Self proclaimed Mother Theresa of Wastes had spoken.
If you'd read the manual then you'd have known that there are hotel rooms.
Manual is outdated and will be removed (as Lexx said somewhere). But I can agree, reading didn't kill anyone yet.
I already said that this will be a non-issue after the update.
Awesome, but for now you can't tell newbies to rent these rooms. Argument busted.
P.S. Surf, what's the problem with you? You aren't satisfied with the real life? Why you should put your word in EVERY SINGLE TOPIC, especially if you are NOT playing this game as a normal player, without of using a GM account? Which means, that you can't soberly assess the situation.
I'd like to know the answer too.
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why the last option says n00bs, is supposed to be newbies
and i think that newbies only deserve suffering, why? because all the games are very friendly aand everyone can play it, but this game no, so if youre a newbie and have a brave heart (lol) you will deserve to grow up and become powerful, if not then just stop of play.
You must win play fonline,
thats what i think
AMENNNN
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Even in Real Life most of us have a short tutorial at the beginning.
We are learning how to walk, learning how to eat, how to say "mother" and so on. Usually you have linear beginning where you making closer to game mechanics.
There should be some temple-like where to learn how to shoot, how to fight, how to steal, how to heal.
Also the longe the starting the less it encourages alting. Also It is the right place to show what is Enclave (shooting someone or something)
Not bad at all.
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why the last option says n00bs, is supposed to be newbies
and i think that newbies only deserve suffering, why? because all the games are very friendly aand everyone can play it, but this game no, so if youre a newbie and have a brave heart (lol) you will deserve to grow up and become powerful, if not then just stop of play.
You must win play fonline,
thats what i think
So everyone should get mutie artillery/grid camp for da lulz right otherwise they shouldn't play Fonline? We should make the game even more harsh so only those who can beat others cheaply by camping or swarming a lone player, can play right? If this game represents Reinats kind of thinking, we might as well say Fonline is only for griefers and trolls.
Graphics will always be a part of the attraction. Since we know the game is graphically inferior, then it needs something else to draw in players. UPVP was tried with Ultima Online, a game that had graphics and the playerbase STILL TANKED. Its clear the "harshness", more than anything else, drives players away from the game. Do folks realy want the Fonline playerbase to comprise entirely of Reinats?
The hardcoreness comes from the playerbase primarily made up of griefers and trolls. A game that caters to sociopath type behaviors will attract? Sociopaths.
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The hardcoreness comes from the playerbase primarily made up of griefers and trolls. A game that caters to sociopath type behaviors will attract? Sociopaths.
Speaking of which, this might be a bit offtopic but I want to share an anecdote: some time ago I decided to give TLA a try. So I create a character, head to Bartergrounds or whatever, say hi to some Russians and asked them to please give me some small advice about what to do in that server, the answer I get is "fuck you damn french, get back to 2238", which I respond with "i'm not french, i'm argentinean" which made one of them say "argentineans are pussies, were raped in the falklands war". Uff, tough one. I actually never got such a strong one here in 2238. Anyway, after being called "emperialist" more than once, I run around getting my eyes hurt with my poor looking Van Buren model until I go into one of the tents. When I want to get out, a character in shining power armor is blocking the entrance and shouting "suffer! suffer emperialist!".
So yeah, the "hardcoreness" comes from a poor player base. But it's not hardcoreness, it's just lulzy nonsense.
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When I want to get out, a character in shining power armor is blocking the entrance and shouting "suffer! suffer emperialist!".
Priceless ;D
Also yeah, as you said this game is so harsh because players make it harsh, not mechanics. Not sure there's anything wrong with that though.
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Also yeah, as you said this game is so harsh because players make it harsh, not mechanics. Not sure there's anything wrong with that though.
Not it's not bad really but imo if the player base sucks, the harshness will suck as well. Because like I said it is trolol and not harshness.
Wasteland is trolulzy.
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just give train access to newcomers ...problem solved
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Long time ago i make post with suggestion about 'quick caravans response against aggressor'
When u landing in enco with random caravans and some player come's an he will open fire to you(team mates,cow etc.) Caravan's should response automatically against of aggression becouse they may feel threatened.
This will not solve the problem completely, but much can make life easier a new player at low levels.
P.S Your idea Graf is totally hit. Make a newbie's life easier!
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Dude, that Surf guy is the worst person to try to reason with ever. Seeing him completely misunderstand everything almost seemingly on purpose was frustrating to just READ, I can't imagine being on the other side...
Anyway, I think this is a pretty good idea. What Surf and Reiniat fail to realize is this isn't changing the WHOLE game, completely nerfing it and the like. One thing. Not even a very big thing, just the smallest push to convince more people to stay. That's the whole reason for this anyway, to get more people online! So what's the big deal? Is this hurting someone somehow? I've only ever seen maybe 25 people in one place at one time, and I constantly just run into the same people.
So I don't know what the hell everyone's talking about saying this will make the game too easy. Not really, I mean it's not that hard anymore for me, but for newbies it is. You can be killed and lose everything at anytime. Unless you're in a guarded town, which they don't even know the difference. They'll figure it out eventually, just like we did. But obviously it's not accessible enough to make people want to stay long enough to do so. That's all this is trying to do. I can't reiterate enough, I don't want to be blatantly misunderstood, over and over...so if you want new people, and want this game to grow and develop for many more years to come vote yes. If you like MMO to stand for Minimal Multiplaying Online, and can't wait for the point when this game is totally full of only max level characters, those player's alts, and finally for this game to wither away and die please vote no and take to the nearest Vault to prepare for the end.