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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Marrxman on April 13, 2011, 12:40:17 am
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Honestly, why are people always so mad at PKers? Its a part of the game. I was PK'ed thousands of times as a bluesuit, but you know what, the people killing you are just having fun. Pking is a valid game mechanic, and if you crusade against them and flame PKers, you are just missing out on part of the game. You don't have to partake in it, so leave those who do alone. I want civil discusiion against Pkers in this thread, not the ones who go "LOL I OWNED YOU NOOB GO BACK TO WoW LULZ", but the ones who say sorry, wrong place wrong time, and you run into them in town and can laugh about it later. Im looking at you Gokhanz :D.
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"LOL I OWNED YOU NOOB GO BACK TO WoW LULZ"
i dont like 1/10 pkers for this speech :D
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http://www.thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=68
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I'd disagree with "You don't have to partake in it", and I guess that's what most people complain about. You go about, minding your own business, and then you die.
I've probably been killed about 3 or 4 times by people who were civil, and to be fair, I didn't mind so much in these cases. The other times, it's probably a 50%-50% split between "An encounter loads and you're already dead before the scene has even loaded" and "You're fighting against some NPCs and suddenly you're blown up by a rocket / shot to pieces from somewhere for no reason".
I think the main problem I have with it personally, is there's rarely any "fight" in it. It's not often like an epic and exciting battle between two players, with shots going back and forth, with tactics and skill, until one eventually dies and the other escapes with heavy wounds. It most often seems (from my perspective at least) to be a sniper or rocket launcher kills the other person in one shot, normally before they're even aware of any opposition.
Rather than it feeling like a game mechanic of player combat, it feels much more like the equivalent of a game suddenly crashing with an error, and you have to reload an old save from half an hour ago and redo everything again.
To be fair, I think I've had one good PVP battle, when I was quite new. Both myself and the opposition had Desert Eagles or something similar, like low level stuff, probably with leather jackets or leather armour. We were probably of a similar level, and I was collecting some Gecko skins after killing them. He arrived and wanted to fight over the loot. We shot each other a few times, I crippled his legs, thought I had the upper hand... then my gun deteriorated to broken, so I tried to outrun him, and he got a beautiful lucky long range shot in my head and I died. That was actually really good fun. I didn't mind it, because there was actually something of a fight in it. It was exciting.
I can't speak about town control, or gang vs gang warfare or anything, as I've never done either. I'm a fairly casual player. It's just a shame that I've had about one of those good battles, compared to so many of the surprise insta-deaths.
[edit] That cartoon above probably says it better than I did :)
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I'd disagree with "You don't have to partake in it", and I guess that's what most people complain about. You go about, minding your own business, and then you die.
I've probably been killed about 3 or 4 times by people who were civil, and to be fair, I didn't mind so much in these cases. The other times, it's probably a 50%-50% split between "An encounter loads and you're already dead before the scene has even loaded" and "You're fighting against some NPCs and suddenly you're blown up by a rocket / shot to pieces from somewhere for no reason".
I think the main problem I have with it personally, is there's rarely any "fight" in it. It's not often like an epic and exciting battle between two players, with shots going back and forth, with tactics and skill, until one eventually dies and the other escapes with heavy wounds. It most often seems (from my perspective at least) to be a sniper or rocket launcher kills the other person in one shot, normally before they're even aware of any opposition.
Rather than it feeling like a game mechanic of player combat, it feels much more like the equivalent of a game suddenly crashing with an error, and you have to reload an old save from half an hour ago and redo everything again.
To be fair, I think I've had one good PVP battle, when I was quite new. Both myself and the opposition had Desert Eagles or something similar, like low level stuff, probably with leather jackets or leather armour. We were probably of a similar level, and I was collecting some Gecko skins after killing them. He arrived and wanted to fight over the loot. We shot each other a few times, I crippled his legs, thought I had the upper hand... then my gun deteriorated to broken, so I tried to outrun him, and he got a beautiful lucky long range shot in my head and I died. That was actually really good fun. I didn't mind it, because there was actually something of a fight in it. It was exciting.
I can't speak about town control, or gang vs gang warfare or anything, as I've never done either. I'm a fairly casual player. It's just a shame that I've had about one of those good battles, compared to so many of the surprise insta-deaths.
[edit] That cartoon above probably says it better than I did :)
completely agree. But thats how it is with every game and basically with everything in life. Look at say monopoly and market control in an economy. Sure, its unfair to do, but I mean THEY CAN DO IT so why not? same goes for that insta kill sniper/rocket launcher pking, as long as the option is there, people will do it. People are genetically jerks.
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http://www.thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=68
Wow, I didn't knew this comic still existed.
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"PKing" is a very general term.
"Bluesuit hunters" is a term used for the people who just randomly blow up newbies for fun.
And "APK's" are just people who kill the people who kill other people for fun. since the bluesuit hunters are often about as powerful as the APK groups. it makes it a fair fight, rather then a one sided slam fest.
But. really, the example shown in the comic, while amusing doesn't really apply here, you cant really mix crafter and combat builds well enough to defend yourself at a mine against 1-2 guys with full gear and pure combat builds. so when crafting you are always weaker, which is why i think mine campers are so hated. since while they -can- do it, they just make the game harder for others, and waste peoples time. and people who are offensive and waste other peoples time... = Trolls. and nobody likes the trolls..
-Ulrek-
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I think the main problem I have with it personally, is there's rarely any "fight" in it. It's not often like an epic and exciting battle between two players, with shots going back and forth, with tactics and skill, until one eventually dies and the other escapes with heavy wounds. It most often seems (from my perspective at least) to be a sniper or rocket launcher kills the other person in one shot, normally before they're even aware of any opposition.
Hey, exactly how I feel. But there's so many obstacles to having the kind of battles you described without rebuilding the game from the ground up.
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PKers stole my damn flint at level 1... FLINT!!!!!!. LIKE HONESTLY!!.
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PKing pks is quiet fun. And PKing bluesuits ass well when u can say "U n00b I pwned u." and steal his broc flowers. xD FOnline is one of the last games when you can properly PK.
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FOnline is one of the last games when you can properly PK.
I WONDER WHY.
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Why people hate pks? Because pks mess with their bussiness and delay their goals. If someone is for example levelling his char and someone shoots him, of course the victim is allowed to be pissed because the killer had a choice not to shoot but he shot anyway.
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No pity , no mercy , no remorse just a cold blooded kill without even saying a word , gazing at the body for a moment , giving a stiff look and then leaving.
Perfect.....
No sorry , no forgiveness , nothing it's not even personal. Kill just for the sport , kill just to pull the trigger , kill just to hear the bullet leave the gun.
Nothing personal.
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No pity , no mercy , no remorse just a cold blooded kill without even saying a word , gazing at the body for a moment , giving a stiff look and then leaving.
Are we playing the same game? Because I don't think we're playing the same game.
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Are we playing the same game? Because I don't think we're playing the same game.
I can play this game how i like it , not how you think it should be played.
Or you just shouldn't understand it in a literal way.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheGreatPlayerVersusPlayerDebate (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheGreatPlayerVersusPlayerDebate)
Nice to know we're not the only game who've had the same arguments since forever.
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No pity , no mercy , no remorse just a cold blooded kill without even saying a word , gazing at the body for a moment , giving a stiff look and then leaving.
Perfect.....
No sorry , no forgiveness , nothing it's not even personal. Kill just for the sport , kill just to pull the trigger , kill just to hear the bullet leave the gun.
Nothing personal.
i dont know if someone really understand it, but the purpose of say "nothing personal" or "this is not personal" is mean "THIS IS FUCKIN PERSONAL SOLOZZO, THIS IS FOR SHOT TO MY FATHER, DIE DIE!!!!!" you cant kill people with hate, because you will fail, so you convince yorself that is not personal, but youre really enjoyng your acts.
Also you cant say that yourent enjoying murdering, the posibility of sadism in this game is awesome, i love to say "hello i help you to hunt" or "i FA you, look im holstering my weapon"before of kill, or laugh in my victim corpse and say "this is not personal" is like an insult in that situation.
and of course like a good player i dont get ofended by another PKers, even if they are grinding, first time i play i gt killed like 6 times for 28DaysLater, and i dont get ofended i try to be like him.
The only thing i really hate of this game is mercenraries there is not any game capable pvp and mercs, exept for games like Age of Empires, or with a very buff to the mercs, i wish to eliminate them, unfortunately isnt posible.
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When I first started playing FOnline I noticed that a lot of people who got PKed, including the people who got me started on the game, would get so angry about being PKed that they would quit for sometimes weeks. I NEVER understood that. Sure I was a little angry about getting PKed in the beginning but now I see it as just another wasteland learning experience. I always smile and tell my PKer "nice one :D" or some similar shit. Because, after all, the times I have been PKed, my attacker did it in a very awesome and skilled way and it impressed me very much. Why not compliment them, especially if you were a worthy adversary?
Now that I am familiar with the game and at least have a decent amount of skill, I am able to PK random people myself but I follow certain PKing "rules". Let's be honest, we all PK at some point once we have the level and the skill, and we ALL have certain little rules we PK by. And just for shits and giggles I will share mine:
- ALWAYS return the person's loot to them in a nearby protected town. I always instruct them to meet me in ___, give their shit back, and no one is ever angry after that.
- NEVER PK bluesuits. Seriously, that is just retarded. It makes newbies never give the game a chance because every time they try to harvest materials and make something of their character, some asshole blows their shit up and takes it all before they even can make a tent.
- Against anyone with combat armor or brotherhood armor and especially in RT: burst first, ask questions later.
- BE FUCKING FRIENDLY. I don't get why so many people are huge douchebags in this game! THIS GAME IS ABOUT SURVIVAL, WHICH INCLUDES KILLING EACH OTHER, DEAL WITH IT AND LAUGH ABOUT IT LATER. Just as the OP said.
Also, I had a PVP once with Gokhanz myself. He was the victor but complimented me and I told him I hoped to see him again sometime. He is an awesome wastelander and I wish there were more awesome wastelanders out there than there are.
Get a sense of humor people. It's a game. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE FUN. If you get PKed, don't quit, GO GET STRONGER AND PK THAT MOTHERFUCKER BACK! The wasteland is vast, the wasteland is populated with all kinds of differently skilled people, and the wasteland is motherfucking amazing. :D
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You won't be the first and neither the last to be killed by a pk.Get used to it or walk away.This is not Metin2 or other piece of shit mmo where if you are low level you are invincible.No son no.This is a real mmo in fact this is the wasteland son there is no mercy for weak here.I suggest you get your mind right with either continuing playing this or not. This is like the 20 st topic of this type I see in 3 months. Or just join a darn APK faction . There is C88,TTTLA and some other I don't remember.
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Well as for me, PvP is then, when player fights versus other player(s). But dying from 1hex retarded burst in guarded town is pure PK actually. So the "PvP Player" and "PK Player" are the two different terms imho. That explains why people usually hates "PKrs".
Btw, SIGISMUND, as far as I know, TTT LA isn't APK faction.
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There is no such thing as anti-pk this era. There was sort of prewipe I am willing to say... but no thing now.
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1. Pkers contribute to paranoia. They in a way compel others to continue the cycle of mindless violence since nobody could be trusted. People who shoot first therefore have a much higher survival chance. The presence of alts is primarily due to the violent nature of the game since its much more efficient to craft ones own things than to trust a psycho, which is the majority of the population.
2. Rewards. The gains from PKing vastly outweight any other method of item acquisition. Considering its the same PK teams that also farm encounters, this leads to an in-ordinate amount of wealth going to a certain playstyle therefore fucking over any other chance for a different playstyle. Hence this game is a bit of a one trick pony.
3. System. Granted it will be changed next era, cooldowns are stupid. People are losing lots of real life time gaining shit and BAM, some PKers rob them blind. I don't care how often the Pkers themselves got PKd, their playstyle is forcing everyone else to conform or risk losing time and energy. 5 hours for BA when one can get it from gridcamping/shoot the eyes?
In all fairness, its half-pkers and half the system. Change the risk/rewards scenario a bit along with the paranoia and pk might not be so bad. I always thought combat was meant to be fun, a test of natural skill and strategy with braggings rights to the victor. Throw in item loss and you lose the spirit of competition. Instead, its replaced with cheap tactics designed to gain victory through minimal amounts of risk. In the case of the TC system, its people with multiple combat alts along with cheese tactics to win attrtion style warfare.
P.S. By the way Badger great read/link. It explains both sides of PVP quite clearly even if the non UPVP side makes more sense logically.
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I always smile and tell my PKer "nice one :D" or some similar shit.
Are you sure?
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Are you sure?
You still up to your old tricks Yoz?
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If you got killed by PK then just keep smiling :)
What PKs want to see is despair and people stop playing.
When you got PKed then just keep playing. Don't stop.
You just help PKs to get stronger and more annoing if you do that.
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Well i'm a hther with no pvp experience, the only guy i killed was a thief but i've been pked quite some times. Of course i was a little mad, but i wouldn't even consider playing the game if there were no pkers. Seriously do you enjoy the carebear world of fallout 3 and NV ?
Imo this is the fallout spirit : a harsh and desolate world with barely no order. And (some) people take advantage of it. Shoot first talk after is pure logic, i won't/can't do it (i just run ^^") but i don't blame people doing it.
What i blame however is what Keldorn said about pking blue suit, that's just lame. Another lame thing, yesterday one(?) retarded brat killed a merchant in NCR. What's the purpose of this ? With all the guard around, I don't think the guy had time to escape, so what does it accomplish other than wasting people time ?
I love the pk in this game but hate the "being-a-jerk-for-being-a-jerk" thing.
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Are you sure?
yoz your comment made my night. :>
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i dont know if someone really understand it, but the purpose of say "nothing personal" or "this is not personal" is mean "THIS IS FUCKIN PERSONAL SOLOZZO, THIS IS FOR SHOT TO MY FATHER, DIE DIE!!!!!" you cant kill people with hate, because you will fail, so you convince yorself that is not personal, but youre really enjoyng your acts.
Also you cant say that yourent enjoying murdering, the posibility of sadism in this game is awesome, i love to say "hello i help you to hunt" or "i FA you, look im holstering my weapon"before of kill, or laugh in my victim corpse and say "this is not personal" is like an insult in that situation.
and of course like a good player i dont get ofended by another PKers, even if they are grinding, first time i play i gt killed like 6 times for 28DaysLater, and i dont get ofended i try to be like him.
The only thing i really hate of this game is mercenraries there is not any game capable pvp and mercs, exept for games like Age of Empires, or with a very buff to the mercs, i wish to eliminate them, unfortunately isnt posible.
Actually killing people because of hate would be considered as revenge , retribution. Mostly I don't even remember people I kill , I don't even care whats the loot if it's a bluesuit I don't take it anyway. I don't enjoy killing bluesuits , I just kill because I can. Like I said nothing personal
You know whats personal ?
If I would find somebody on purpose and then kill him that's personal , but mostly bluesuits get in the wrong place at the wrong time and then face the consequences , because I really don't care if they live or die , I have bullets to spare so then they die.
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http://www.thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=68
Wtf.... where do u find this kind of shit.... some people really have alot of time on their hands :)
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I like killing pkers
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PKing was the main reason why the player base dropped from 600+ players to peaking at 400- below. Most pkers are just europeans and english players who are absolutely insecure or just bored as shit.
Pking is not fun for noobs, its aggravating when you spend 3 hours gathering hides for the first time and having it all shit stormed out of your hands by some russian guy with a minigun yelling HAHA FUCK YOU BLUESUIT! Then runs away without looting you.
PKing imo should not be incouraged, until some good bounty hunting jobs are implemented... It really kills our player base and kicks some or all the bright imaginative players (Good RPers?) out of the game due to rage quit and leaving all the crappy unrespectful gamers who like to grief people in the community.
Well thats from my experience hehe. GunSmithPete: *Pelvic Thrust*
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- ALWAYS return the person's loot to them in a nearby protected town. I always instruct them to meet me in ___, give their shit back, and no one is ever angry after that.
- NEVER PK bluesuits. Seriously, that is just retarded. It makes newbies never give the game a chance because every time they try to harvest materials and make something of their character, some asshole blows their shit up and takes it all before they even can make a tent.
- Against anyone with combat armor or brotherhood armor and especially in RT: burst first, ask questions later.
- BE FUCKING FRIENDLY. I don't get why so many people are huge douchebags in this game! THIS GAME IS ABOUT SURVIVAL, WHICH INCLUDES KILLING EACH OTHER, DEAL WITH IT AND LAUGH ABOUT IT LATER. Just as the OP said.
No one EVER returns the loot. One guy even put my armor on and walked around in it offering to give it away for free to other players.
Most everyone PKs bluesuits. For some reason people think killing bluesuits makes them uber skilled, and they also enjoy watching them have to start all over again. Doesn't make you skilled, and you're a douchebag for enjoying suffering.
Burst first? What happened to that give them stuff back policy?
Sorta agree with this last one. Returning insults with insults is ineffective. However, you won't be laughing when they sell your shit and call you names. This is basically a list of stuff that just doesn't happen.
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Burst first? What happened to that give them stuff back policy?
Well if you can beat/survive somebody fully leveled and decked out for combat and get away with it all the time no need for the burst first policy then. Also you seem to be reading it out of context.
This game is full of trolls and griefers, you can adjust to the community and deal with it or play white knight and say what is right and what is wrong in every thread concerning conduct in a post apocalyptic setting.
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No pity , no mercy , no remorse just a cold blooded kill without even saying a word , gazing at the body for a moment , giving a stiff look and then leaving.
Perfect.....
No sorry , no forgiveness , nothing it's not even personal. Kill just for the sport , kill just to pull the trigger , kill just to hear the bullet leave the gun.
Nothing personal.
And these are the thoughts of douchebags. Go outside, get some fresh air, and realise how nerdy that post was. Murdering people who can't put up a fight and are taken by surprise is stupid. Get over it. Didn't you ever hear the old saying "Pick on someone your own size?" Well, yeah. It's true. This is a game. You're not actually "killing" anyone. But being fair and waiting till the noobs actually have a chance isn't going to hurt. It's not going to ruin your life. It's a game. Play it nice, or don't play it at all. There's nothing wrong with taking a little pride in the digital world, but really. Read what you just said.
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It's a game, It's not going to ruin your life if you get pk'd continually as a bluesuit either. Go outside, get some fresh air, Being fair and waiting for the noobs to have a chance will give them the ability to possibly kill you one day and could hurt. It's a game play it how you want to and let others play it the pk way.
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It's a game, It's not going to ruin your life if you get pk'd continually as a bluesuit either. Go outside, get some fresh air, Being fair and waiting for the noobs to have a chance will give them the ability to possibly kill you one day and could hurt. It's a game play it how you want to and let others play it the pk way.
If they have a chance to kill you, that's good. It's called a fair fight. If they explode when you shoot them once, it's not a fair fight.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello_Kitty
This isn't about fair fights, do you really believe in the fallout universe a raider would wait until someone grabbed a minigun before shooting/raping/pillaging.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello_Kitty
This isn't about fair fights, do you really believe in the fallout universe a raider would wait until someone grabbed a minigun before shooting/raping/pillaging.
Well, considering this is a game played by people who are not actually IN the fallout universe, and considering the fallout universe is not reality, yes.
This isn't the fallout universe. This is a game based off of it. And this isn't a roleplaying game. We're not pretending it's actually the fallout universe and acting oblivious to the fact that there is a world beyond this video game.
Just because the fallout story says people are nasty, doesn't mean you have to act it out in game. Just play nice. It isn't hard.
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You may not believe this is a roleplaying game but others do, I enjoy acting like a raider. Please don't state "We're" in your post when you don't have an idea of what others believe the game to be. I roleplay this as the fallout universe and as such i act nasty on some characters or I go onto one of my "nice" characters and help people out.
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You may not believe this is a roleplaying game but others do, I enjoy acting like a raider. Please don't state "We're" in your post when you don't have an idea of what others believe the game to be. I roleplay this as the fallout universe and as such i act nasty on some characters or I go onto one of my "nice" characters and help people out.
I meant by roleplay like this:
Someone mentions the real world outside of the game, and you act as if you have no idea what the hell they are talking about, this IS the real world.
Nah. This is Fallout online, not Fallout RP.
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Play it nice, or don't play it at all.
ooooh ahhhh we have to play by his rules or we are stupid because he is the bawse.
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The ones who call themselves raiders, kill level 1-5's and call it RP are the only ones I have a problem with. They're the same ones who will suddenly decide to stop RPing as a raider when they're outgunned. "i noob lol have you got any hides? :)" "dont shoot lol"
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The 'THIS IS WHAT THE FALLOUT WORLD IS' holds no weight whatsoever.
What about towns? In Fallout if you gunned someone down in cold blood in public, an entire town would freak out and enact vigilante justice. You could never go back. Instead we have sleepy farming town bloodbaths. People don't kill strangers because of a commitment to roleplaying a raider and the world of Fallout, they do it because the game lets them. Players are always as big a dick as you allow them to be, and FOnline is no exception. That's just how all videogames work, and why games go to great lengths to prevent that kind of thing.
Everybody cherry picks the part of the Fallout world that backs up their argument and denies everything that doesn't. Like I did just then. It's stupid. Don't do it. Justify your argument without using the words Fallout/Hello Kitty/whining/noobs/griefers. Talk about why something improves gameplay, makes the game unique, provides an exciting challenge, and so on.
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You may not believe this is a roleplaying game but others do, I enjoy acting like a raider.
If you're out PKing with only a leather jacket and either a spear or 9mm Mauser, then I don't think you're really the sort of person anyone has been complaining about - it's more the people who, despite the apparent lack of resources and civilisation in the post-apocalyptic setting, are walking around better armed than a full squad of the NCR Military.
I think most people wouldn't have a problem with anyone who PKed with a spear.
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If you're out PKing with only a leather jacket and either a spear or 9mm Mauser, then I don't think you're really the sort of person anyone has been complaining about - it's more the people who, despite the apparent lack of resources and civilisation in the post-apocalyptic setting, are walking around better armed than a full squad of the NCR Military.
I think most people wouldn't have a problem with anyone who PKed with a spear.
Maybe they're a bunch of crazies who came across some pre-war gear for commando squads and are now rampaging and pillaging wherever they go :>.
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Maybe they're a bunch of crazies who came across some pre-war gear for commando squads and are now rampaging and pillaging wherever they go :>.
That kinda reminds me of the little kids back in kindergarten who always said "You can't kill me, I took an invincible potion" when we were playing knights or something.
2 x 3 macht 4, Widdewiddewitt und Drei macht Neune. Ich mach' mir die Welt, Widdewidde wie sie mir gefällt.
The german guys will know what I mean. ;D
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Nuh-uh! I had my forcefield up!
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My question is what happens when the griefers are bored?? Not only did they drive away a significant portion of playerbase and potential pvpers, but they then wonder why everythings so boring because there is nobody around to kill. Said griefers then quit until next era when folks decide to give the new wipe a chance and continue the cycle of stupidity.
Folks need to look at the BIGGER picture. What purpose do griefers serve? Do they help encourage a larger playerbase which then tests the servers limits in every way imaginable? They argue they are the backbone of the Fonline community. Well thats great for the 300 or so remaining but what happens when a big portion of those quit? There is a reason why so many towns are just friggin dead out there.
Point: Griefing others and making the whole server boring, just for a few minutes of giggles, then returning to the same boredom because of said griefing is an exercise in futility.
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Well thats great for the 300 or so remaining but what happens when a big portion of those quit?
It's a circular argument. Some people say that the harshness encourages players, as it's a unique selling point for the game. Others think that it alienates and frustrates more players than it draws in.
I think it puts off more players than it encourages, but I'm prepared to accept I might be wrong. I don't think either argument can be proven without a comprehensive study into why people stop playing/have no interest in 2238.
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Play it nice, or don't play it at all.
(http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz348/CarefullyWovenPhotography/Okay.png)
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(http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz348/CarefullyWovenPhotography/Okay.png)
That's better.
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I have nothing against PK, the problem is that currently the game promotes killing everyone except your friends on sight. I don't like that, it's not Falloutish at all, it's Quakeish. Dying is meaningless, like in first person shooter. You just respawn, restock and go back to fight. It's the essence of shooter genre. I think killing everyone you don't know should have some harsh consequences that would make it possible to play like this, but a lot harder. Living as outlaw should be harder not easier. I would like to play a raider who has to sneak around because everyone wants to kill me, but right now the situation is that peacful people in towns have to sneak around because everyone want to kill them and nobody will help. It has nothing to do with Fallout world as it was presented in the single player games. The only town where it's the other way is Redding, and it requires a lot of effort from so called anti-pks and a situation on server when a lot of people are so bored, they just let the project live.
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I have nothing against PK, the problem is that currently the game promotes killing everyone except your friends on sight. I don't like that, it's not Falloutish at all, it's Quakeish. Dying is meaningless, like in first person shooter. You just respawn, restock and go back to fight. It's the essence of shooter genre. I think killing everyone you don't know should have some harsh consequences that would make it possible to play like this, but a lot harder. Living as outlaw should be harder not easier. I would like to play a raider who has to sneak around because everyone wants to kill me, but right now the situation is that peacful people in towns have to sneak around because everyone want to kill them and nobody will help. It has nothing to do with Fallout world as it was presented in the single player games. The only town where it's the other way is Redding, and it requires a lot of effort from so called anti-pks and a situation on server when a lot of people are so bored, they just let the project live.
Raiders are like pkers, dont shoot anyone besides friends, i dont see anyone complaining about them..
people complain about pkers to get a reaction out of people
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Raiders are like pkers, dont shoot anyone besides friends, i dont see anyone complaining about them..
people complain about pkers to get a reaction out of people
I didn't see any raiders geting into town, kiling every player and then doing normal business with merchants like nothing happened.
I think it would be great if PKs could do ambushes on desert like raiders, and do other stuff like that, but give towns more cooperation and "PvE" features (something like kill dogs quest but bigger and not so primitive - like exploring some random mutant bunkers, raiders camps and so on).
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I think it would be great if PKs could do ambushes on desert like raiders, and do other stuff like that.
But you can do that... Just go to a tile near ncr or Hub, go into an encuonter, and wait :>.
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Raiders are like pkers, dont shoot anyone besides friends, i dont see anyone complaining about them..
people complain about pkers to get a reaction out of people
Lol. NO, they don't. And being a "raider" doesn't qualify you to exterminate everyone in your path.
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I kill "PKers", if not, they kill me. Bluesuits or people that turn and walk away I dont kill. No sport.
Oh and btw, Im a raider.
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Atleast you know raiders are NPC hostiles. Pkers say peace then kill you. They decieve and lie and adds to paranoia. NPCs don't setup ambushes by placing mercs on spawn grid.
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It's a circular argument. Some people say that the harshness encourages players, as it's a unique selling point for the game. Others think that it alienates and frustrates more players than it draws in.
I think it puts off more players than it encourages, but I'm prepared to accept I might be wrong. I don't think either argument can be proven without a comprehensive study into why people stop playing/have no interest in 2238.
Harshness encourages a certain kind of players, I'd say. "A sociopath breeding ground", is the sumup a therapist used when describing WoW for example after he had analysed the social (or lack of) environment in it for a couple of months.
LOL!!!! You gotta give me the link to this guy, because if he thinks "WoW" is a sociopath breeding ground.....
It's time to introduce him to Fonline. :)
I cant think of any link at the top of my mind, but if you do google "A sociopath breeding ground" I'm quite certain you will find it. In fact, what google should say if you google those words is "Did you mean World of Warcraft?".
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Harshness encourages a certain kind of players, I'd say. "A sociopath breeding ground", is the sumup a therapist used when describing WoW for example after he had analysed the social (or lack of) environment in it for a couple of months.
LOL!!!! You gotta give me the link to this guy, because if he thinks "WoW" is a sociopath breeding ground.....
It's time to introduce him to Fonline. :)
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The problem with Griefers and PK'rs is that they walk in the 'ENDLESS' gray area of this game. They send bluesuits and lowbies out, and have some cranked up combat/drug build floating too, if the lowbies drop into an encounter with other people they go 'peace' then radio, saying found some fodder. Next thing you know you're being eaten by a LSW. So that brings the wasteland to the point of Shoot first or Die. Some people who play this game don't want to be unprovoked pk'rs. But it becomes no choice, so then because of others you end up shooting everyone that you mean thus ruining someone's day who may have truly been some lowbie trying to make their way. It's not Circle Logic, it's Circle of Terrorism.
The harshness of the wasteland does have it's draw. But in a G A M E, there has to be some form of ACTUAL limits. The combination of NO safe place, full loot drop, and pocket lint stealing fools, overshadows the quests, exploring, and scaving. Your time in game becomes, can you make it to town, then through town to buy/make/trade/sell/talk before getting pinned by shop shooters, picked by thieves, or gang raped by a bunch of LoLz seaking Pk'rs camping around the area. At that point it's not an adrenalin filled trek through the wastes, it's a overstressed Running spree til you either make the exit-grid and log out, or you get jumped lose everything you just worked for and log out. Pretty much still ends the same way... 'Log Out'
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Implement Karma, and Posses (too much PK in an area, and/or NPC killing in towns, and extra patrols are mounted as a dragnet for offenders).
Also, Wanted Posters/bounties set not just by players, but by NPC factions.
ofc people would just make a rotating network of griefers- have them make tents with each other near towns far away from each other, then swap operating areas when it gets hot.
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Implement Karma, and Posses (too much PK in an area, and/or NPC killing in towns, and extra patrols are mounted as a dragnet for offenders).
Also, Wanted Posters/bounties set not just by players, but by NPC factions.
ofc people would just make a rotating network of griefers- have them make tents with each other near towns far away from each other, then swap operating areas when it gets hot.
The coloring system took care of some of that. It was a good feature.
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(http://fs92.www.ex.ua/show/9452917/9452917.jpg?800)
woop!
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The Karma system add may not be such a bad idea, but as seen by the replies to my post in suggestions, which relates somewhat to this topic. No one want's to do it. I would love to see someone who steals/kills in a town suffer rep loss and have to wait it out, much in the same fashion as people who join NPC factions and have to wait til things get abck to -200/+200. Same goes for people camping bluesuits and other lowbies in the wastes, especially if the lowbies and such are in an npc faction. Maybe not as much a drastic drop in rep for kills in the wasteland but something.
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"Raiders are any group of people who pillage, plunder, murder, or otherwise ruin the day of anyone unfortunate enough to not be one of them. If there were still laws, they'd be outlaws. Raiders are trying to organize into organizations all over the wasteland, and are one of the biggest problems of the California in the year 2238. Raiders tend to organize into loose confederations of gangs in the post-apocalyptic wasteland and are a constant problem, because it's much easier for them to just shoot people for their money, food, and other valuables than to earn an honest living. Raiders typically prey upon travelers and very small towns, leaving more populous areas alone, where they are easily outnumbered." [sic]
What's the problem? Fallout universe is full of raiders/pkers. The two terms are synonymous.
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What's the problem? Fallout universe is full of raiders/pkers. The two terms are synonymous.
The problem is that there isn't sufficient consequences and even if there were, they could be avoided with alts. Example: kill vc patrols and members with combat char, sell in shops with barter alt.
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Raiders typically prey upon travelers and very small towns, leaving more populous areas alone, where they are easily outnumbered.
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And they do it out of desperation, not to show off or kill for the lulz.
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Implement Karma, and Posses (too much PK in an area, and/or NPC killing in towns, and extra patrols are mounted as a dragnet for offenders).
Also, Wanted Posters/bounties set not just by players, but by NPC factions.
ofc people would just make a rotating network of griefers- have them make tents with each other near towns far away from each other, then swap operating areas when it gets hot.
Instead they should fix NPC factions so that PKers can't abuse them.
It's quite annoying to kill some random PKs and get vilified in VC for it, even if you do it near San Francisco.
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People get angry when they lose, 'nough said.
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People get angry when they lose, 'nough said.
People get angry when they lose without having had a chance of winning.
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As someone above said. Raiders do what they do out of desperation or the in-ability to cope with civilisation. Since they are not usually skilled or very bright (hence not much to contribute to society), they make their living the only way they know how. Even without civilisations "laws", being a raider is not taken lightly. Raider chiefs still utilize skills such as diplomacy and hedging. Killing for the "LULZ" is stupid since raiders risk supplies for personal amusement. Look at some of histories "raiders", Ghengis Kahn, Edward Teach, Pablo Escobar, Vlad Tepes, Milosevic, Aidid and Idi Amin. These guys all have earned their crazy label but yet there was a method to their madness.
Or a much simpler explanation:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e07-fatbeard 18:33
With Full Loot Drop, people try to find the cheapest and quickest way to kill others with the least amount of risk. This doesn't contribute to the game in regards to testing or competition. Its a few folks who are bored yet have the powerful ability to ruin the game for substantially more people.
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As someone above said. Raiders do what they do out of desperation or the in-ability to cope with civilisation. Since they are not usually skilled or very bright (hence not much to contribute to society), they make their living the only way they know how. Even without civilisations "laws", being a raider is not taken lightly. Raider chiefs still utilize skills such as diplomacy and hedging. Killing for the "LULZ" is stupid since raiders risk supplies for personal amusement. Look at some of histories "raiders", Ghengis Kahn, Edward Teach, Pablo Escobar, Vlad Tepes, Milosevic, Aidid and Idi Amin. These guys all have earned their crazy label but yet there was a method to their madness.
Or a much simpler explanation:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e07-fatbeard 18:33
With Full Loot Drop, people try to find the cheapest and quickest way to kill others with the least amount of risk. This doesn't contribute to the game in regards to testing or competition. Its a few folks who are bored yet have the powerful ability to ruin the game for substantially more people.
I never once dreamed that anyone would be able to link a South Park episode in a debate concerning FOnline :o
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It`s after all just a game, and by that it is like real life some are assholes some are kind.
To be honest i dont get this whole debate. It`s for (it`s the way I see it) good verus evil.
the game needs a balance with evil and so called good, some laugh when killing a level 1, some help try to help that same level 1.
In order to have at least in my eyes a game based on fallout you need both. I might be wrong, but i like it myself that some "act" as raiders.
It gives balance, at weird as it might sound i like it. Because it gives me as an "apk" something towards agaisnt.
It gives me as an "apk" something to do. And in the end it`s just a game, so have fun ;)
Sorry for the long rant^^
(Looking forward to much pvp next season from rda\bbs,Cs,Dow and so on)
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It`s after all just a game, and by that it is like real life some are assholes some are kind.
To be honest i dont get this whole debate. It`s for (it`s the way I see it) good verus evil.
the game needs a balance with evil and so called good, some laugh when killing a level 1, some help try to help that same level 1.
In order to have at least in my eyes a game based on fallout you need both. I might be wrong, but i like it myself that some "act" as raiders.
It gives balance, at weird as it might sound i like it. Because it gives me as an "apk" something towards agaisnt.
It gives me as an "apk" something to do. And in the end it`s just a game, so have fun ;)
Sorry for the long rant^^
(Looking forward to much pvp next season from rda\bbs,Cs,Dow and so on)
me also, lets hope we get bigger :D
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Its not about getting bigger, i want all even smaller gangs to have fun, but enough of the off topic.
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No the debate isn't soo much a "Good vs. Evil" It's Mature vs childish. The issue is the specific type of pkr who has the mentality of a kid with a magnifying glass standing over an ant farm at noon. I have no problem with a person who pk's that limits themselves to people that can fight back, town controls, other pkr's. When you get a group of Lulz seeking people who spend their time taking on the weakest targets they can find, that just ruins the game, at least for the people being jumped.
Imagine if you will being stuffed into a locker at a fun park, and every SINGLE time you try to get out 3 people shove you back in. Now imagine that that is ALL you have to look forward to when you go to that fun park. I would be willing to bet that eventually you won't think that place is very fun and may even stop going.
PK as an idea isn't the problem, the PK'rs and what they do MAKE it the problem. There is no consequences for abusing lowbies (and that's what it is BTW) there is only profit/lulz. Well Yeehaa for the pk'rs you have a game, it's not fallout, and eventually it will become nothing but you and other pkr's and you will just be going through the motions.
The problem many of you are having with this issue is, you're seeing it from the 'group' point of view. Think about it from the view of a small group 4 or less. The lone wolf who steps into this game only to spend MONTHS trying to craft and explore, because every move they make ends in them losing HOURS of work. I know that not all of you Join a gang just after wipe. But many do, and you wonder why you're bored later, it's because you reduce or remove much of the problems normal people, and people who don't want to pk have to deal with. And things boil down to Join a pk gang, join an anti-pk gang (same thing really) or fear EVERYONE you ever meet. If you want to play a game with only 2 choices, maybe you should play Tic-Tac-Toe. The rest of us came here to play Fallout, in that wonderful universe, not play "Replication in --, Loading screen, Craft/mine/explore, Replication in --" Well that was a fun 3 hours with nothing to show for it but some nice screen shots of "Lulz, Ha Ha, /puke in mouth"
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No the debate isn't soo much a "Good vs. Evil" It's Mature vs childish. The issue is the specific type of pkr who has the mentality of a kid with a magnifying glass standing over an ant farm at noon. I have no problem with a person who pk's that limits themselves to people that can fight back, town controls, other pkr's. When you get a group of Lulz seeking people who spend their time taking on the weakest targets they can find, that just ruins the game, at least for the people being jumped.
Imagine if you will being stuffed into a locker at a fun park, and every SINGLE time you try to get out 3 people shove you back in. Now imagine that that is ALL you have to look forward to when you go to that fun park. I would be willing to bet that eventually you won't think that place is very fun and may even stop going.
PK as an idea isn't the problem, the PK'rs and what they do MAKE it the problem. There is no consequences for abusing lowbies (and that's what it is BTW) there is only profit/lulz. Well Yeehaa for the pk'rs you have a game, it's not fallout, and eventually it will become nothing but you and other pkr's and you will just be going through the motions.
The problem many of you are having with this issue is, you're seeing it from the 'group' point of view. Think about it from the view of a small group 4 or less. The lone wolf who steps into this game only to spend MONTHS trying to craft and explore, because every move they make ends in them losing HOURS of work. I know that not all of you Join a gang just after wipe. But many do, and you wonder why you're bored later, it's because you reduce or remove much of the problems normal people, and people who don't want to pk have to deal with. And things boil down to Join a pk gang, join an anti-pk gang (same thing really) or fear EVERYONE you ever meet. If you want to play a game with only 2 choices, maybe you should play Tic-Tac-Toe. The rest of us came here to play Fallout, in that wonderful universe, not play "Replication in --, Loading screen, Craft/mine/explore, Replication in --" Well that was a fun 3 hours with nothing to show for it but some nice screen shots of "Lulz, Ha Ha, /puke in mouth"
have you guys even play fallout 2 or 1 the wasteland is meant to be harsh for reason
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have you guys even play fallout 2 or 1 the wasteland is meant to be harsh for reason
In other words, "tl;dr wasteland is harsh, lulz".
Have we not learnt that these topics are useless?
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In other words, "tl;dr wasteland is harsh, lulz".
Have we not learnt that these topics are useless?
what are you talking about stop trolling realy have any 1 of you anty pker played fallout 2 or fallout 1
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Yeah rune, the funny thing is, that FO1/2's harshness wasn't like that.
Please elaborate on an actual ingame example where people kill others for the lulz and without any repercussions. I'd be very interested.
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Yeah rune, the funny thing is, that FO1/2's harshness wasn't like that.
Please elaborate on an actual ingame example where people kill others for the lulz and without any repercussions. I'd be very interested.
are you shour ther was Meany hi level npcs all most next to where you start i know that there was little good in the wasteland amounts of enclave and mobster not robber my bad and most every thing that wound kill you in fallout2
in fallout 1 it was a easy game yes but there where mostly eazy npcs thee only after you find the master do you get the hard stuff
any ways this off topic
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The originals were actually setup by area. The desert highway where the BOS is stationed and the area near Mariposa was a hub of Super Mutant activity. Same with the area near the cathedral. Otherwise, it was mostly critters such as rads, scorpions, geckos, etc.
BTW, there was NEVER grid camping in the originals. There was very little one shot death going on as not only was the game TB but the game was far less combat oriented than Fonline. Armor actually provided protection and NPCS wouldn't "shoot for eyes" immediately. There were no "bluesuit teams", with cripple builds and BB guns. Trust me, PK LULZORS are ten times more dangerous than your average baddie in the originals.
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No the debate isn't soo much a "Good vs. Evil" It's Mature vs childish. The issue is the specific type of pkr who has the mentality of a kid with a magnifying glass standing over an ant farm at noon. I have no problem with a person who pk's that limits themselves to people that can fight back, town controls, other pkr's. When you get a group of Lulz seeking people who spend their time taking on the weakest targets they can find, that just ruins the game, at least for the people being jumped.
but these lowbies could be gang scouts!! The paranoia... it wins.
Imagine if you will being stuffed into a locker at a fun park, and every SINGLE time you try to get out 3 people shove you back in. Now imagine that that is ALL you have to look forward to when you go to that fun park. I would be willing to bet that eventually you won't think that place is very fun and may even stop going.
That is the PERFECT example! And it is sooooo freaking sweet when you finally break out and kick their asses/get some friends, no?
PK as an idea isn't the problem, the PK'rs and what they do MAKE it the problem. There is no consequences for abusing lowbies (and that's what it is BTW) there is only profit/lulz. Well Yeehaa for the pk'rs you have a game, it's not fallout, and eventually it will become nothing but you and other pkr's and you will just be going through the motions.
I agree though, that there needs to be more consequences for people's actions... I'm sure we'l see something next era though, surely?
The problem many of you are having with this issue is, you're seeing it from the 'group' point of view. Think about it from the view of a small group 4 or less. The lone wolf who steps into this game only to spend MONTHS trying to craft and explore, because every move they make ends in them losing HOURS of work. I know that not all of you Join a gang just after wipe. But many do, and you wonder why you're bored later, it's because you reduce or remove much of the problems normal people, and people who don't want to pk have to deal with. And things boil down to Join a pk gang, join an anti-pk gang (same thing really) or fear EVERYONE you ever meet. If you want to play a game with only 2 choices, maybe you should play Tic-Tac-Toe. The rest of us came here to play Fallout, in that wonderful universe, not play "Replication in --, Loading screen, Craft/mine/explore, Replication in --" Well that was a fun 3 hours with nothing to show for it but some nice screen shots of "Lulz, Ha Ha, /puke in mouth"
But repeating these same problems every wipe is equally boring... It's the same damn thing every time.
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Figure I better put my two peneth worth in,
I just started playing again after a LONG gap (and even then I only played for a few hours) first of all let me say that Fallout Online is an amazing piece of work, well done to the Devs for making it possible.
Secondly PK'ing low level chars is KILLING FOnline, no two ways around it... Its KILLING the game (dont believe me? Read EVERY review of FOnline - more recently the NMA Review is very balanced take on the FO experience.)
why?
I started the game. eager and keen, i'd read the forums and the wiki inside out so I knew what initial quests to do and I also knew that I needed to get those 10 Brahmin hides... FAST... I did the initial quests and got myself some basic equipment, I spent a few hours scavaging and foraging around the NCR area and then made my way down south in order to locate some more Brahmins. From reading the guide I KNEW that in order to succeed I needed to avoid people, other players ect... However as soon as I joined the game there was a RABBLE of activity within the NCR, I was approached numerous times by obvious con artists, chased by thieves and other wise harrassed, but I stuck to my rule, avoid people...
Eventually I obtained a gun and went out to find those pesky Brahmins, I found a good sized herd and took down four, thats four Brahmin skins, the next encounter there was only one Brahmin on the map, no matter I took him out and was searching his corpse when all of a sudden my charactder was riddled with bullets, I collapsed to the floor in a pool of blood. My initial thought was a bug but no, some guy comes over and took my five hides...
Back to square one again...
No money, No Equipment...
Not one to give up I tried again and eventually built up my supplies, so off I went (again.)
I eventually collected my 10 Brahmin Hides but I certainly think more needs to be done to help new players, would it be difficult to implement a quest where a player recieves three or four hides on completion (Help the Brahmin Herder obtain some water or something?)
I also think there needs to be a cool down on the steal skill (I dont know if there already is but its abused crazily so in the starter towns.)
Just a few of my impressions, still loving the game though now that i've FINALLY got my tent ;D
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I also think there needs to be a cool down on the steal skill (I dont know if there already is but its abused crazily so in the starter towns.)
There is, (30 seconds) but most thieves will just try to troll you by constantly using Science or another skill on you that doesn't do anything when their cooldown is active. But it has the same animation, so then the player keeps having to stay away, since you never know when they are actually using Steal... Very annoying, I agree.
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have you guys even play fallout 2 or 1 the wasteland is meant to be harsh for reason
That doesn't mean "Be a huge asshole to everyone you meet. You're supposed to, it's the wasteland."
In a just world, over time, you'd wind up setting civilization back thousands of years all over again.
You shouldn't be able to PK anyone under level three without them provoking you, or something crazily abhorrent like "You can't be PVP'd up until the point you attack another player." so non-PK players can actually PLAY.
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You shouldn't be able to PK anyone under level three without them provoking you, or something crazily abhorrent like "You can't be PVP'd up until the point you attack another player." so non-PK players can actually PLAY.
If TC was moved to areas like the Stables/Ghost Farm/Theme Park/Vault 15/Toxic Caves/WHEREVER and all towns were made guarded I think you'd solve a lot of the PvP complaints.
1. More towns are populated/Players are more evenly spread across the world.
2. More quests are attempted/completed.
3. People would be more responsible for their own deaths, as dangerous areas are more clearly defined. Towns = Safe. Not towns = Dangerous.
4. People could PvP on maps actually designed for it (eventually)
5. Unsuspecting idiots are no longer shot because THEY COULD BE A BLUESUIT SPY.
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Decided to add more to the "circular argument".
Look at what happened with Ultima Online. It started with UPVP and the playerbase TANKED. It got so bad that the developers had to change it otherwise risk folding. Think of it as "common sense". Every other MMO out there has realized that UPVP simply DOESN'T WORK. Hence there is always a balance between UPVP and RPVP (either server based, consensual, zone based, etc).
Just face it, a game that caters to chuckleheads is going to stagnate. Chuckleheads themselves are inherently bored easily (thus explaining their idiotic and irratic/impulsive behaviors). Once the chuckleheads have chased all the normal folks from the game, they again will be bored and themselves quit, leaving the server a desolate windswept ghostown.
1. Quests need to be town specific and level oriented. You don't offer a level one noob a quest where he can be swarmed by ankle biters or a railline gang. You don't give a player a quest in the southern part of the map and have him travel to different towns looking for some strange killer. Its defenitely crappy quest design to force someone to go to a murderous PK infested town just to deliver the package to another murderous pk infested town (oh btw if you "lose" the package you are perma fucked).
2. Trains in order to be efficient need to stop relying on world time. Is there even a ratio of real life time to in game time so folks can actually attempt to "time" a train? Lets not even go into the whole different time zones deal. If fixed, noobs will have the ability to safely arrive in towns so they can do quests and handle their business without running into the same chuckleheads as often as 4 or 5 times on the SAME DAMNED SQUARE.
3. Levelling need not ALWAYS/PRIMARILY combat based. This way it encourages different playtyles and non-combat characters need not be forced into the wasteland. Civilisation IS returning and plenty of merchants are getting rich without directly involving themselves in fighting.
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Decided to add more to the "circular argument".
Look at what happened with Ultima Online. It started with UPVP and the playerbase TANKED. It got so bad that the developers had to change it otherwise risk folding.
One word: Clueless; UO failed because the developers constantly delayed updates and finally introduced Trammel, which split the playerbase. Also UO's PvP system was/is vastly superior to what we have in FO (no PvP system).
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Point set match. "No PvP system." We just have a bunch of lulz camping bored people, who abuse others. TC itself isn't the problem we're discussing. TC (it's current mechanic issues aside) is fine. It's the PvP everywhere ELSE that is the issue. Someone said have you played F1 and 2. Uh yeah probably more than most people sadly (thanks to only having a shitty comp back then.) And the ONLY time when you would get pick pocketed in town was by some stupid kid, and you know what if you didn't care about that shop anymore you could go to the person who then had all your stuff that was stolen, and BLOW HIS ASS AWAY!!! And unless you hit a drugged out citizen in the cross fire no one cared.
There was NO SUCH THING as full loot drop in F1 and 2, why?!!? Cause when you died you /reloaded and guess what your stuff was there. In the fallouts if you came across a person in the wastes you had a pretty damn good idea whether or not you needed to shoot them. In here, HA you can't even trust bluesuits.
I just for "lulz" started a new character and was gonna just play around trying out energy weapons again. I spawned near NCR, got the quest to talk to people in the Rawhide, and headed into the wastes. I DID NOT even make it to NCR before I got pulled into an encounter with 3 fully armed people, I can guess pretty lvled too, since I recognized the LSW graphic. And you know what they did to a lvl 1 character not even 5 mins in game. "BLAST, Replicating in --, Ha look at that(LOL /skull f*ck) Loading Screen." Wow now I'm further from NCR don't have the less than 10 caps I spawned with, or the empty water bag. Good game.
And you are still sitting here wondering why this game is dying more and more!?
The "HATE" isn't for pk's in ungaurded towns/mines/events, or the fights for TC, it's for the ones EVERYWHERE ELSE! What's even more sad, is Michaelh, (decent guy, but we've had our fights) is a Pk and HE can even see what's happening in game.
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One word: Clueless; UO failed because the developers constantly delayed updates and finally introduced Trammel, which split the playerbase. Also UO's PvP system was/is vastly superior to what we have in FO (no PvP system).
Player dispersion was a primary factor in the downfall of UO. Like you said, Trammel was largely to blame. However, Trammel would not have been needed had the devs thought PVP through and developed a system where both sides can get what they want. Not so clueless actually. More common sense.
Sure the griefers get left out but who gives a shit about them anyways?
As Trokanis said, when we mention PVP, we are really mentioning griefing. UPVP tends to excacerbate the situation. Again, PVP can be handled much differently than how it is now.
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2. Trains in order to be efficient need to stop relying on world time. Is there even a ratio of real life time to in game time so folks can actually attempt to "time" a train? Lets not even go into the whole different time zones deal. If fixed, noobs will have the ability to safely arrive in towns so they can do quests and handle their business without running into the same chuckleheads as often as 4 or 5 times on the SAME DAMNED SQUARE.
sorry to go off topic.
3seconds irl time is equivalent to a minute game world time and what do you mean trains need to stop relying on world time?
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I mean one could easily go to the station, click the take rain to X, and go there.
Anyone besides me think that actually timing a fucking train to real time is a bit in-efficient? That is I also have to account for international time zones as well?
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I mean one could easily go to the station, click the take rain to X, and go there.
Anyone besides me think that actually timing a fucking train to real time is a bit in-efficient? That is I also have to account for international time zones as well?
I understand the Devs want a 'realistic' feel but come on, alot of things need looking at and streamlining for fun gameplay... Things off the top of my head:
- Trains that teleport players to a location instantly or arrive every 5 RL Minutes (nice compromise)
- Banks that operate with their own money (prevent a banking crisis and allow people to take their own funds out when they need'em)
- Overhaul the whole PVP system, right now its abused by certain groups and pushing the FOnline playerbase away.[/b]
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I understand the Devs want a 'realistic' feel but come on, alot of things need looking at and streamlining for fun gameplay... Things off the top of my head:
- Trains that teleport players to a location instantly or arrive every 5 RL Minutes (nice compromise)
- Banks that operate with their own money (prevent a banking crisis and allow people to take their own funds out when they need'em)
- Overhaul the whole PVP system, right now its abused by certain groups and pushing the FOnline playerbase away.[/b]
OMG ANOTHER person who's really trying to help this game!!!
Love your added ideas, please post them in the Suggestions section so that they can be seen in an On Topic thread.
(also if you're really nice review the thread in my sig, and put any ideas about changes to the PvP/Pk system there, it's not a perfect suggestion atm, but it's meant to have more than one brain working on it.)
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When I found this game, I was amazed, loved Fallout 1/2 and *cough* Tactics *cough*. Being a Fan of the Fallout Universe I find myself pushing through the Pk'er slog like Salmon swimming upstream - I give them a mouthfull of abuse for their trouble as they start to loot my twitching corpse (it's the least I can do ;D) but it actually made the first hours so intense I was too scared to leave the PC for a second incase something awful and wasteland like happened, brilliant fun.
Now a few days worth of play in and multiple different Character attempts later I am beginning to feel the strain. I have saved enough CAPs to buy myself some combat armour...but Im too bloody scared to travel anywhere in search for better armour or weapons. I'm lvl 7 and I cant get a shot off against the PKers camping around the major trading areas, I try to run and end up full of holes.
Getting into higher lvls makes recovering from being Pk'd a little easier but the pain of losing that top pistol or the carefully scavenged ammo is so hard to swallow. If it's hard for me being a fan I cannot imaging others (who cannot afford to have 3 hours wasted due to being PK'd) being able to take the time to try and lvl up. So when people say their are only 400 players, I can see why and I think the argument that "giving up because you are Pk'd is stupid" is itself kind of stupid. People play games to relax, enjoy and Immerse, not get stressed out and lose hours of work. In the long run it's only going to hurt the Game unless something changes.
Personally i think it sucks being PK'd (which is why I give them a mouthful)however I do agree it is a component of the game, albeit a broken one, that adds excitement. No idea how it could be fixed and am not going to make suggestions but I will say that as much as possible I note the names of the Pk'ers down and what keeps me going is the thought that one day I will have my power armour and my Sniper rifle and I will have my revenge. ;D
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I was too scared to leave the PC for a second incase something awful and wasteland like happened, brilliant fun.
Worldmap is your friend. Just stay on it while you are AFK and nothing will happen. Before re entering the area, don't forget to use Town Preview (not available for all locations though).
the pain of losing that top pistol or the carefully scavenged ammo is so hard to swallow.
Don't worry about powerful gear until you get to a high level. Just grab a cheap gun and level on (mutated) molerats.
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I have to post it here..
My char have just been killed by some lame - he parked his car in front o San Francisco, armed in best things ( but this no matter), what is most important is a fact that he has 5-7 followers-mercs ( each about 160 hp armed with plasma rifles, and metal armors, do not kow exact number of mercs but for sure maximum). ADDITIONALY he set up REAL TIME FIGHT. Here is the effect - i have been killed (wering brotherhood armor with 160 hp) in less than second - i have spawned and saw that have -68 hp.
After a while i have replicated, tryied to enter SF but this was impossible - i have entered to his area again.. and again... ( nothig lost because just after replication.. but...)
I was admiring this game... I have beend plaing here for 4 weeks.. have own 2 chars at 21 lvl.. gathered some stuff.. met people.. very often i also have been killed by other players but never in such way.. I have talked with other players and know that it is VERY VEEEEERY hard to kill such person even with 4-5 other players.. For me this game lost everyhing - because it is impossible to fight against other player and have any chances in fight ( even if my char would be same as his at the entering of his encounter we would be at worse position).
And i know that only way i balancing this problem would be not allowing to buy mercs and traveling with them.. or have max 2 followers.. For sure this won't happen so i will just say bye to this game - becaouse it is VERY imbalanced and i do not wan't to waste time to see everywere players with parked hummer + 7 mercs in real time combat mode.
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I have to post it here..
My char have just been killed by some lame - he parked his car in front o San Francisco, armed in best things ( but this no matter), what is most important is a fact that he has 5-7 followers-mercs ( each about 160 hp armed with plasma rifles, and metal armors, do not kow exact number of mercs but for sure maximum). ADDITIONALY he set up REAL TIME FIGHT. Here is the effect - i have been killed (wering brotherhood armor with 160 hp) in less than second - i have spawned and saw that have -68 hp.
After a while i have replicated, tryied to enter SF but this was impossible - i have entered to his area again.. and again... ( nothig lost because just after replication.. but...)
I was admiring this game... I have beend plaing here for 4 weeks.. have own 2 chars at 21 lvl.. gathered some stuff.. met people.. very often i also have been killed by other players but never in such way.. I have talked with other players and know that it is VERY VEEEEERY hard to kill such person even with 4-5 other players.. For me this game lost everyhing - because it is impossible to fight against other player and have any chances in fight ( even if my char would be same as his at the entering of his encounter we would be at worse position).
And i know that only way i balancing this problem would be not allowing to buy mercs and traveling with them.. or have max 2 followers.. For sure this won't happen so i will just say bye to this game - becaouse it is VERY imbalanced and i do not wan't to waste time to see everywere players with parked hummer + 7 mercs in real time combat mode.
This is why the game needs re-balancing and streamlining, if not we're going to lose ALOT of people and put off the new players from joining.
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yeah let the newbies talk about balance!
The only thing in problem mentioned is wrong - travelling speed. Because it was lowered, and encounter rates werent changed, it is very high probabilty to get in same encounter. Even if you enter encounter of other player, then you leave, you can enter again and again and again while travelling away from the spot you entered first. But i heard that travelling speed will be increased on worldmap once again, so it should not be a problem more or less.
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vedaras - read with understanding please...
the only problem is that merc leaders are overpowered.
what would happen if there was not 1 but 3 merc leaders with total 15 merc in real time fight? noone would handle them.. Even if its one - he only stands with his sqad in front of city and waits for players, loot bodies and put looted thing to car. after 15 minutes he is changing a city and again just w8 for next victims.
And calling a n00b new person at forum is such lame'y style...
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Yeah WTF with the only newbies talk bout this important stuff. I know you're a PK'r but just because other people have issues with falling into PK traps and you don't, doesn't make their point any less valid. The balance (or extreme LACK there of) in the pvp system is an issue that needs to be addressed. Which is in fact the point of a Beta-test. And to come out of no where and respond as you did about the discussion, is a fair example of why. "So much hate for PKers"
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Most of the time you don't even need to bother reading vedaras' posts, so that's a no brainer. ;)
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well he paid for those merks like 100k caps at the very least probably much more. Do you think its not fair that he wins against you? Because of the reason i mentioned it is easy abusable to trap people, but their power is ok. Its kinda weak actually, they seldom aim, their firing rate is slow, nothing special about them, just dont forget that they are 5, thats a lot you know...
Dude i remember you as good player from before, and recently you are only ragging everywhere on forum, insulting all people and spamming like 13 year old, maybe its time for you to quit, or take a break? Chill out a bit.
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well he paid for those merks like 100k caps at the very least probably much more. Do you think its not fair that he wins against you? Because of the reason i mentioned it is easy abusable to trap people, but their power is ok. Its kinda weak actually, they seldom aim, their firing rate is slow, nothing special about them, just dont forget that they are 5, thats a lot you know...
he paid 100k caps for such firepower? - so he paid far to low. Sorry but earning 100k caps for 21 lvl char is just few hours of game. And ANYWAY, i have much more than 100k caps and can't do with it anything - becaouse my char is not merc leader. Each MMO has classes for players which can be choosen. Each class is balanced in refference to others ( you can easly win in confrontation with some proffesions but you can be also easly killed by others). BUT Merc leader i OWNING each other proffesion in fonline ( BG burster, SG burster, SG sniper etc.) Each of them HAVE NO CHANCES in fight 1 vs 1 player + 5 mercs. ESPECIALLY IN REAL TIME MODE.
They fire rate is slow? huh sure.. if you receive 5 rockets at your face fire rate does not mean. Additionally, they fire rate is almoust same as typical player character so please be serious.
(...)you are only ragging everywhere on forum, insulting all people and spamming like 13 year old, maybe its time for you to quit, or take a break? Chill out a bit.
It was not addressed to me, but SORRY, when you had called me a "newbie" just because i have low number of posts next to my avatar i felt that you are such person as you have described.
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he paid 100k caps for such firepower? - so he paid far to low. Sorry but earning 100k caps for 21 lvl char is just few hours of game. And ANYWAY, i have much more than 100k caps and can't do with it anything - becaouse my char is not merc leader. Each MMO has classes for players which can be choosen. Each class is balanced in refference to others ( you can easly win in confrontation with some proffesions but you can be also easly killed by others). BUT Merc leader i OWNING each other proffesion in fonline ( BG burster, SG burster, SG sniper etc.) Each of them HAVE NO CHANCES in fight 1 vs 1 player + 5 mercs. ESPECIALLY IN REAL TIME MODE.
They fire rate is slow? huh sure.. if you receive 5 rockets fire rate does not mean. Additionally, they fire rate is almoust same as typical player character so please be serious.
first of all newbie is not insult, newbie is new player, whats wrong to be new player ? :> And its not of your post, you yourself said you have 2 lvl 21 characters, this is really little if you talk of how many builds you tried in game etc :>
merc leader is balanced, it is useful 1v1 and gives you big advantage fighting 1v1, but when it comes to big fight and when mercs fire bullets to seperate people they are 1000 times less useful than in your situation and usually result in a loss of many expensive guns and mercs. And balance first come from big fights, because this is faction orientated server.
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I have no need to check other build in online game - i have tested them locally and know their advantages and disadtantages. Merc leader has no weak points - 30 not merc leaders vs 30 merc leaders - who will win? ( 30 guns against 180 guns)
I think that now we are offtoping - this should be disscussed at another topic.
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mercs are stupid, mercs are easy to be killed, mercs are expensive. Even militia of towns where merc npcs are much stronger with over 300 hp and most of them with best weapons they are still easily slayed by human players. Of course if it would be 30 merc leaders v 30 normal players merc leaders would probably win, so good luck create a faction with this amount, i dont think you will have enough caps to support a one raid like that not even talking it about as a constant tactic. Look in here for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9yH0O7mBd4
Mercs are pretty much dead meat in serious battles, and these were mutants much stronger than normal mercs. Not saying they do not help, but they are far away from being ultimate power or something as you are describing them.
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mercs are stupid, mercs are easy to be killed, mercs are expensive. Even militia of towns where merc npcs are much stronger with over 300 hp and most of them with best weapons they are still easily slayed by human players. Of course if it would be 30 merc leaders v 30 normal players merc leaders would probably win, so good luck create a faction with this amount, i dont think you will have enough caps to support a one raid like that not even talking it about as a constant tactic. Look in here for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9yH0O7mBd4
Mercs are pretty much dead meat in serious battles, and these were mutants much stronger than normal mercs. Not saying they do not help, but they are far away from being ultimate power or something as you are describing them.
I have to disagree.
Usualy militia in a town is not killed in open battle - i most cases factions are sending single players wearing nor armor, armed in a one gun, accrying a lot of ammo.
He is hiding ammo somewhere in a map and then bursting militia from 1 hex distance, after replication he is grabing his gun (militia do not loot) and do it again until most of mitia is killed.
You have presented a link where merc leaders shouldn't use mutants who can't run and can't reach their targets before being killed. They didn't use their brain during that fight so they have lost.
As i said before, it is not a problem in earning 100k caps
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so earn that 100k caps and pwn all, i would like to see that and others probably too. Burst militia from one hex, when people are patrolling most of the time in their towns. Go on, show us how to play.
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so earn that 100k caps and pwn all, i would like to see that and others probably too. Burst militia from one hex, when people are patrolling most of the time in their towns. Go on, show us how to play.
And again you are:
"(...)only ragging everywhere on forum, insulting all people and spamming like 13 year old, maybe its time for you to quit, or take a break? Chill out a bit."
better do not write anything if you have no sense in your post.
I saw MANY times when people were bursting militia from 1 hex ( Gecko, modoc) and do it again untill all militia is gone.
People are usually patroling only redding and BH.
I do not have fun in killing each encountered player so i won't make such a build. But i would like to play in a game where i know that i have ANY chances in 1 vs 1 pvp when i have max lvl and best eq.
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what you writing is 100% wrong from in game reality, no arguments, no truth, no nothing, i wont argue with you no more, just think when all gangs are fighting to be the best, why they are assaulting not with as you say 30 merc leaders. If you really think its the most powerful way to play, then play it. I would like to see you bringing 150 rocket launchers and much more rockets to each fight, one hours job for you...
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what you writing is 100% wrong from in game reality, no arguments, no truth, no nothing, i wont argue with you no more, just think when all gangs are fighting to be the best, why they are assaulting not with as you say 30 merc leaders. If you really think its the most powerful way to play, then play it. I would like to see you bringing 150 rocket launchers and much more rockets to each fight, one hours job for you...
And where are YOUR arguments? whre is YOUR truth?
I can say same to you that everything that you are saying is out of game reality.
Why they are not assaulting with 30 merc leaders? Cause plaing merc leader is boring and people wan't to play also other chars. This do not change real fatc that pure merc leader sqad is far stronger than other biuilds sq.
please also do not change my words - i said that earning 100k caps is a few hours of play NOT ONE hour.
Additionally earning rockets is so easy - make a tent near to brotherhood, make a thief char and clear brotherhood patrol pockets.
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And where are YOUR arguments? whre is YOUR truth?
I can say same to you that everything that you are saying is out of game reality.
Why they are not assaulting with 30 merc leaders? Cause plaing merc leader is boring and people wan't to play also other chars. This do not change real fatc that pure merc leader sqad is far stronger than other biuilds sq.
please also do not change my words - i said that earning 100k caps is a few hours of play NOT ONE hour.
Additionally earning rockets is so easy - make a tent near to brotherhood, make a thief char and clear brotherhood patrol pockets.
i even gave you video for how it happens for real. You still keep saying same shit i guess that cant be helped.
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I like where this thread is going.
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i even gave you video for how it happens for real. You still keep saying same shit i guess that cant be helped.
I thought you said that you won't argue with me anymore?
Kid, learn how to discuss without insulting anyone or go to your sandpit.
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(http://saucepls.info/A/ca/129773675783.png)
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.. or have max 2 followers..
I think something like that (or exactly that) is planned for post-wipe.
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and again same story.
this time other player, other lame. San francisco merc leader with 5 mercs ( each 86 hp with rocket luncher)
here is printscreen - i got killed and it is not even metioned at action window. If i were with 5 friends there would 5 bodies instead of one.
the funniest thing is that i had been killed, make a 1,5 hour of brake, after that took new eq from my tent and met that player again in same place and again got killed. yeah merc liders are not overpowered. situation will be same even if there will be only limit up to 2 merc maximum.
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3234/lameu.th.jpg) (http://img135.imageshack.us/i/lameu.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
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its just one hour for you to make 100k caps, buy stronger mercs and kill him in this easy fashion.
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unfortunately it is impossible - becose when i spawn with my mercs we will be gathered close in one group - such a pr0 like you ( sic!) should know about it
I i have never mentioned it is JUST ONE HOUR to gather 100k caps, so get lost.
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unfortunately it is impossible - becose when i spawn with my mercs we will be gathered close in one group - such a pr0 like you ( sic!) should know about it
his mercs were gathered close together as well ya know... besides if his mercs really have only 86 hp ... I could bring mercs with 14mm pistols worth 3-5k each to that encounter and pwn them all with minimal loss of life. :P
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his mercs were gathered close together as well ya know... besides if his mercs really have only 86 hp ... I could bring mercs with 14mm pistols worth 3-5k each to that encounter and pwn them all with minimal loss of life. :P
omg your mercs are overpowered!
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omg your mercs are overpowered!
Oh your god my mercs are trained!
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so earn that 100k caps and pwn all, i would like to see that and others probably too. Burst militia from one hex, when people are patrolling most of the time in their towns. Go on, show us how to play.
Some of us don't like to "play" as merc leaders.
Being a merc leader is not a way to play, but a way to not play. It's a way to have your npc followers play instead.
In conclusion, some of us don't like to "not play" lol.
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Some of us don't like to "play" as merc leaders.
Being a merc leader is not a way to play, but a way to not play. It's a way to have your npc followers play instead.
In conclusion, some of us don't like to "not play" lol.
i wish you would not like to cry along with this as well.
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So I guess I'm a bitch, but I don't think I'm going to play this game any more. After traveling the wastes for, say, a week, I had enough money and experience to buy the second round of energy expert. Upon entering broken hills, (with my third pair of MA mkII, and umpteenth magneto pistol) I was shot from the other side of the level with a rocket, and fell into a pile of other dead players. This is after being pk'd three times in a row, all after just trying to make it to broken hills, and losing everything I had. It's just frustrating because I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about this. I'm level 12 so I could probably take on one guy ok in a fight, but not the six that were waiting noob hunting in broken hills. That's not fun. I guess this game is cool if you have all your little russian friends on here and can gang up on other people, but I don't see how I have a chance, so it's just not fun.
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I think open world PvP can be fun and challenging, but only if everyone has a chance of defeating their opponent. If level difference wasn't as big a guarantee of success as it is now, getting into unexpected fights with strangers would be great.
I'd be interested to see how the game dynamic changed if levelling up only increased your skills and perks, and every character started out with level 21 HP.
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I think open world PvP can be fun and challenging, but only if everyone has a chance of defeating their opponent. If level difference wasn't as big a guarantee of success as it is now, getting into unexpected fights with strangers would be great.
I'd be interested to see how the game dynamic changed if levelling up only increased your skills and perks, and every character started out with level 21 HP.
Depending on their Endurance of course. Yeah, that sounds pretty cool idea.
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i hate pk'rs but i still repect the option. never played a game before where player killing felt justified with the setting. survival, baby, fear the open wastes. band together, and all that. i respect the option to slaughter who you want.
that said, being killed before the screen even loads into turn based combat is bullshit. wasnt even in the mentioned log window that i was killed. yet there i was laying on the ground before i could even START any combat. lol, thats kind of a deal breaker. this is like the 7th time this has happened to me. :P
giving pk'rs this kind of advantage isnt fair, because there will always be someone waiting to use it alllll damn day. i believe that the context of the fallout universe has no meaning to this kind of player killer, and it doesnt matter what game they play, its the same old story to them. it feels like im being shot by people who arent even here to play, they are only here because god didnt make them pigeons to shit on freshly waxed cars. kinda kills the enjoyment.
anyways.
anyone who enjoys trashing someones good time just for the sake of it is Buzz Killington to all games. lol, any universal fun for that matter. if you need fucked up exploits just to gain levels, you have a shitty head that lacks imagination.
maybe i just dont get it. i am in no rush to get to lvl 21, i just like playing this game. i have no prob getting shot by pk, hey, raiders are people too. but people who have to take it to the level of unfairness are killing it for me. do they know that on a long enough time line they alienate anyone who might be interested in playing this and they will eventually end up with empty server and nobody to kill? is that winning? nothing left but a server full of like-minded people that have no reason to play anymore?
meh, im over it now. sorry for the rant.
TLDR; pk is cool, but exploits suck
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So I guess I'm a bitch, but I don't think I'm going to play this game any more. After traveling the wastes for, say, a week, I had enough money and experience to buy the second round of energy expert. Upon entering broken hills, (with my third pair of MA mkII, and umpteenth magneto pistol) I was shot from the other side of the level with a rocket, and fell into a pile of other dead players. This is after being pk'd three times in a row, all after just trying to make it to broken hills, and losing everything I had. It's just frustrating because I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about this. I'm level 12 so I could probably take on one guy ok in a fight, but not the six that were waiting noob hunting in broken hills. That's not fun. I guess this game is cool if you have all your little russian friends on here and can gang up on other people, but I don't see how I have a chance, so it's just not fun.
Pile of other bodies? Sounds like you didn't use preview and deserved to die.