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Author Topic: a pretty toy gun...  (Read 4459 times)

Gatling

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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2010, 06:50:25 pm »

plus, a minigun shall win against a power fist or fastshot pistol, these are support, not minigun.

Unless someone fights indoors with a power fist and beats your head in while you're opening doors or such.
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And now...
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon."- Rorschach
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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2010, 07:08:03 pm »

Quote
The initial supposition is false. Avengers still do more damage than a Plasma Rifle, as both theory and testing show. The only genuine point about Miniguns is that they are now too expensive to maintain - which will be fixed up at some point.

in great respect for your calculations and laboratory tests, this is not the case in much TC situations, plasma critics still beats.

And even if i m false with it, I think avenger still need better dmg, with another kind of malus elsewhere.
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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2010, 07:58:16 pm »

I think it would be a good idea to increase minigun damage, but to give minigun some drawback, like the scoped hunting rifle.
Like maybe 80% reduced hit chances if target distance is 3 hexes or lower.

In reality miniguns are not used by infantry, but lets think of the minigun as a heavy machine gun (which it is).
In close combat, at HtH range, the soldier with a bayonet on his assault rifle, or even the trained soldier with a club (e.g. were used in WW1 in trench warfare)
would beat the shit out of a machine gunner. You simply cannot aim that fast at low distance with a heavy machine gun.
Before you start argumenting, that it would be unfair to give the guy with low-cost equipment the advantage:
If someone comes close enough to attack you with melee weapons or HtT, while you use a minigun, than you made some serious mistakes, or you are simply out of ammo.

If you donĀ“t agree with this, then ask yourself why all armys arround the world still use sniper rifles, bayonets, pistols and assault rifles and not simply equip all their soldiers with real (but normal) machine guns like the MG42. This one has 1500rpm, with only 10,6kg weight, while being relatively cheap and simple to build, as it is a german ww2 machine gun.
A real minigun does ~6000rpm, but weight is at least 16kg, without ammo. As you need alot of it, you are likely to have 30kg and more.
Try to lift something with that much weight and do fast, controlled movement with this, stopping at just the position you want to. No chance!
Thats a weopon for tripods, aircrafts and maybe supermutans and people in power armor.
Rather than making them more powerful, why not lower their upkeep costs? drop the price of 5mm ammo by 1 or 2 caps.
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Cultist

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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2010, 08:03:31 pm »

Avengers with brd do 480-600 damage, plasma doesn't even come close to that.
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Crazy

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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2010, 08:18:36 pm »

Avengers with brd do 480-600 damage, plasma doesn't even come close to that.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAhahaha.... not funny.
Even at point blank it doesn't deal so much damage... Well maybe with JHP on a bluesuit wiythout toughness? But that's all. We are talking about TC fight.
Since the alpha strike and the general DPS have been nerfed, it's far better to do a nasty 100 dmg blinding crit, or even just a 60 blinding (and if you're lucky, you gonna make twice damage than that and immediately kill your opponent) than to do 2 burst for 160 dmg which gonna be healed just after. And you can fire your plasma rifle twice, like the minigun...
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Cultist

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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2010, 08:21:45 pm »

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAhahaha.... not funny.
Even at point blank it doesn't deal so much damage... Well maybe with JHP on a bluesuit wiythout toughness? But that's all. We are talking about TC fight.
Since the alpha strike and the general DPS have been nerfed, it's far better to do a nasty 100 dmg blinding crit, or even just a 60 blinding (and if you're lucky, you gonna make twice damage than that and immediately kill your opponent) than to do 2 burst for 160 dmg which gonna be healed just after. And you can fire your plasma rifle twice, like the minigun...

I'm talking about base damage obviously, still more than enough to one shot pretty much anything close range. Hell even last wipe against 2xpsycho in BA it still did decent damage.
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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2010, 11:29:28 am »

cultist sorry but u are a noob, u dont know anything about the last changes so please dont write anything, u cannot take 2 psycho anymore. The max DR which u can get is ca:bh 40+15 psycho and forget perks there is many other more important ones.
The thing killing avenger is DT + 55% DR. Chosen soliders made a test with Solar and what he says and what they say are 2 diffrent things, on one side u have a dev who ( propably have never fought during any TC or bigger pvp fight ) on the other side u have old pvp players who know how to play, and stop talking about BRB every single BG has both these perks. Last time in gecko when we fought against "black hands" i had 3 or 4,  1 hex battles, i had ca:bh and avenger vs ma:mk2 + lsws, at ppoint blank they hit me more than i hit them ( there was no critical hits at that time ) every single time i hit them for 135-140 while they hit me for 150-155 i won every single skimrish thx to my ap not my gun, and people who say that avenger does 300 dmg supposed to go out of their caves they know nothing about this game.

about plasma rifles - many times u have close combat battles by corners or through doors, and this is where plasma simple rox, avenger or any other bg cannot 1 ko kill ur opponent even if u are the lucky one and hit ur critical (140-170 dmg) ur enemy can simple hide behind a cover and use 1 or 2 SS, u waste ur ammo and tell me how much u can take 500 ? 800 ? its only a few burst during longer battles most of the avenger users is out of ammo in no time and all they do is wasting opponnents super stimpacks, at the same time even if ur opponent have the stonewall perk u can 1 hit 1 kill him with ur plasma rifle if u hit ur 2xx max bypass hit or any knockdown or knockout, through the doors most of the time u have 1 hex against the other hex battle and game mechanics dont allow other people shoot at the guy inside, so most of the times knockout means death,
oh and ammo its easier to take 50 mfc on you than 30 x 50 5mm ammo and think about crafting it ,,,,, OMFG ,,,, 1500 5 mm ammo means 5 x 1h 20 min, yes indeed avenger is the toy gun and the guy who did the settlers thing supposed to do it for the next 10 years every day for 10 hours a day,

nice block of txt i hope i shed some light on the problem

and one more thing i like the longer battles, at this time armors mean something u can see the diffrence if u put a ma:mk2 or ca:bh on you the problem is u only see it against avenger, plasma rifles lsws and other critical hit weapons supposed to be nerfed if u compare them to the top1, the most expensive gun in the history of the games the avenger
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 11:44:31 am by Ayuta »
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Cultist

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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2010, 11:41:09 pm »

First off, if you had actually read what I wrote you would have realized I WAS TALKING ABOUT LAST WIPE when I mentioned 2x psycho. I've never run out of 5mm during a fight and have never needed more than 2 bursts, the only way plasma can even come close to competing is with aimed shots which is a waste of time unless your opponent is using an aim bot. Are you joking about not being able to one shot someone with an avenger? especially at close range it outperforms the plasma rifle. Unless someone gets an instakill on me they aren't taking me out with a single plasma shot, so your thing about people hiding and healing applies more to plasma as you are less likely to survive avenger. Your main argument seems to be that
A) You suck at math
B) Omg its expensive

Miniguns can be obtained at 0 det 2 per char so you can build up a ton quickly with faction mates and ammo isn't that hard to come by.
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The pervert, the pathological, the prophet
I'm the second coming, the Anti-Christ, the final conflict
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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2010, 01:07:37 am »

u dont get something armor piercing ammo has been changed, thats why DT is killing avenger, and if u havent seen 230 +++ bypass hits with plasma it means u havent seen too much, do u fight during TC or only pve vs molerats ...

and one more time read slowly :
at point blank with avenger with 2BRD i do 140 dmg vs ma:mk2
at point blank !!!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 01:10:08 am by Ayuta »
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Cultist

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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2010, 02:35:08 am »

u dont get something armor piercing ammo has been changed, thats why DT is killing avenger, and if u havent seen 230 +++ bypass hits with plasma it means u havent seen too much, do u fight during TC or only pve vs molerats ...

and one more time read slowly :
at point blank with avenger with 2BRD i do 140 dmg vs ma:mk2
at point blank !!!

I've seen 255 damage from a thrown rock, I go by averages not by max possible.
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Solar

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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2010, 10:23:29 pm »

u dont get something armor piercing ammo has been changed, thats why DT is killing avenger, and if u havent seen 230 +++ bypass hits with plasma it means u havent seen too much, do u fight during TC or only pve vs molerats ...

and one more time read slowly :
at point blank with avenger with 2BRD i do 140 dmg vs ma:mk2
at point blank !!!

This is nonsense.
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Quote from: Woodrow Wilson
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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2010, 07:28:37 pm »

no, this is the situation....
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Solar

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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2010, 01:16:51 pm »

Damage 12-15, lets take the lowest possible damage of 12
12*2/3 = 8 < dam_mod
8-1 = 7 < -DT
DR of metal is 35, -35DR from AP ammo => no DR
7*40 = 280 if every bulet hits

Now, perhaps he missed with half of his bullets and got the lowest damage roll on every bullet, which is an almost impossiby rare situation with decent weapon skill, but to bring that up in a discussion about balance is nonsense.

Avenger is still the #1 DPS weapon on the game. Thats all there is to it and it has been proven several times.

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Quote from: Woodrow Wilson
If you want to make enemies, try to change something.
Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2010, 02:52:38 pm »

every single one was standing on the next hex i had 95% on him, propably the math formula is fucked up
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Cultist

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Re: a pretty toy gun...
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2010, 06:28:31 pm »

Plasma is back to being useless now anyways
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The pervert, the pathological, the prophet
I'm the second coming, the Anti-Christ, the final conflict
Who got nuclear weapons and a suicidal doctrine?
The cult leader, and I'll never stop until I got you locked in
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