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Why? Forgot about melee?

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avv:

--- Quote from: Ymeogamaouas on September 22, 2010, 11:37:42 AM ---why does melee or unarmed need to be on par with gun related traits?
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Because it can and it has potential for awesome. The problem is just when you make a character, it has to be total melee, total sniper or total whatsoever. This creates various problems like powerbuilds, alts and the problem how are we going to balance melee to fit the world of guns.
If our chars could be more dynamic and do various things well while still having their main roles, melee could be part of everyday combat. For example a strong biggunner could be also a sledge-wielding fighter or good with his fists. Agile sniper could handle a knife. Basically anyone should be able to use most melee weapons without always having 30% accuracy with it. We should get rid of special's accuracy is related to stats -rule.

Then why use melee? We could implement some good features that would make melee the most effective combat ability in close range. So that a minigunner would prefer to equip his powerfist or sledge when his enemy comes near. It would make fights much more interesting when players had to plan when to switch weapons. 

Badger:

--- Quote from: avv on September 22, 2010, 06:06:37 PM ---Then why use melee? We could implement some good features that would make melee the most effective combat ability in close range. So that a minigunner would prefer to equip his powerfist or sledge when his enemy comes near. It would make fights much more interesting when players had to plan when to switch weapons. 

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Agreed. Fallout 2 practically admitted they set Unarmed/Melee too low by giving you free unarmed/melee training in the first two damn towns. I like the thought that if enemies get up close, you don't run away but instead start punching dudes in the face. But I don't know how you encourage that. A straight damage buff would just make melee NPCs absolute beasts. And it goes beyond more than a simple damage buff - the issue of character durability comes into it, and so on - why risk a melee fight when you can just run away?

RavenousRat:

--- Quote from: Badger on September 22, 2010, 06:26:29 PM ---Agreed. Fallout 2 practically admitted they set Unarmed/Melee too low by giving you free unarmed/melee training in the first two damn towns. I like the thought that if enemies get up close, you don't run away but instead start punching dudes in the face. But I don't know how you encourage that. A straight damage buff would just make melee NPCs absolute beasts. And it goes beyond more than a simple damage buff - the issue of character durability comes into it, and so on - why risk a melee fight when you can just run away?

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In SW: KoTOR there's a great bonus when you attack someone with melee/unarmed and target has ranged weapon equiped, so there's 2 possibilities to play: pure-melee or melee/ranged, because pure ranged will be useful only with someone tanking. But in Fallout it's not that easy to get close to your enemy because sometimes you can die with 1 shot.
But anyway even if you'll make unarmed/melee in close combat better than ranged weapon, then what you'll do with bursters? What will be thier role? Right now they playing role of "melee", if unarmed/melee will be better than point blank burst.. then there will be no more bursters, except for bluesuitokillers with miniguns and JHP ammo just for fun.
Only powerfist, cattle prods and rippers should atleast a bit match to SG/BG/EW, because it consumes ammo, and it should be almost the same as 1/2 of point blank burst in power. So unarmed/melee will be the same as BG, but less expensive and only point blank possible, but because of less expensive less damage, but still possible to kill someone.
Bare hands, knives, hammers and knuckles should have deterioration and they should break much much much much faster to imitate "ammo", then it could be made useful too.

Dark Angel:
och really ? 40-120 dmg on Psycho In BA all time  ? it cant be true :> Maybe you do it ,but when guy in BA have avanger he can kill you from one hex with one burst ( or high hit + knock ) To crippled his arm you need be very luckly . With  6 LK + better crit + 2 more crit i had to hit him 3-4 time to crippled his arm.

zato1:
just saying, bypass armor crits aren't representative of melee functionality bob. i know you like to throw around those big numbers but lets pull out a plasma rifle and we'll see much nastier bypass crits.

the truth is melee's problems in the current state of the game are obvious: you don't get nearly enough bang for your buck.

for having to chase someone down, and then the terrible walking animations, and then finally catching them, only to have a slight chance at controlling the fight just long enough to get a good shot in, the usage of melee weapons is terrible.

they need to cripple. ALOT more. unless significant changes are introduced in how melee users reach a target, the problem will always be inherent with the engine in a RT setting - kiting. as a melee user you cannot overcome an opponent who starts out at range, barring any luck misses/non-crits/cripples. you will be handily knocked out, crippled, or simply out of HP before you can reach the target.

melee is currently mostly situational in usage. it needs to be taken out of the dark ages and given a serious looking at. if melee is to remain the same, all t2+ melee weapons need something like a perk to increase the chance of cripple effects on critical hits. it is simply unacceptable that hitting someone in the arm with an enormous sledgehammer won't break it. likewise, hitting someone in the head/eyes with a hammer... knockout.

letting a melee PC into close range should equal death for you, no questions asked. because, the current situation, is that melee are always in range of gun users, and when they finally get there, the effect is more akin to a powerful bullet than a melee weapon, with certain exceptions like the super sledge, which can get some hilarious knockbacks.

edit: little tidbit from the ER, knife wounds are far more deadly than even most rifle wounds.

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