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[RavenousRat]

Well I think it dev's aim to prevent drug-machines with builds specially for drugs. Because they have no drawbacks, if they're not on drugs, they're offline and have no penalty of thier stupid build. If they're on drugs means they're online and currently in combat. It forces them wait until combat to use drugs on 100% and be offline on drawback/no drugs. It's almost the same as Fast Shot trait for BGers now, only advatange. So drugs going to be changed to be drawback too, but they failed at buffout, because I don't see any drawbacks at this drug, and if it'll stay unchanged, everyone will have -2 ST +1 AG to thier build or +nuka, so they will only make thier ST on 2 less, and spend these points on something else.

[Killy]

Solar, im a player, i "had" many powerbuilds and i know how it works, when someone creat a new build he looks at the drugs and skill points, drugs u mentioned will not be used at all belive me or not, only buffaout cig + nuka = +2 Str + 1 Pe which means almost clean build, also nerfing psycho so much is a bad idea, also +15 % is nothing, so far people used psycho b/c they could get 2 doses 30%+30% +ca%+ perks was around 95% and u can still be killed by a lucky guy with avenger and critical hit
 
and i have the most important question:

why u boost cheap guns and nerf the most expensive weapons, does it make sense? u want to see a guy with a tommy gun which takes seconds to craft killing a guy in ca + avenger ?

[BaccepmaH]

why u boost cheap guns and nerf the most expensive weapons, does it make sense? u want to see a guy with a tommy gun which takes seconds to craft killing a guy in ca + avenger ?

+1.   The same question.

[RavenousRat]

drugs u mentioned will not be used at all belive me or not, only buffaout

Yeah Solar! Nerf buffout! It's imba!
Cigs and nuka is ok, but buffout isn't. It should give +1 ST +2/+3 EN and -1 AG, +2 ST is too much and allows to have build without disadvantages. Or give penalty of - 2 AG instead of -1.
With +1 +3 -1 it'll be less effective for weapon handling and won't save points at all, except for nuka.
So it'll save only 1 SPECIAL points if you use it with nuka, and it's ok.

[Solar]

I would say thats more a fail for Nukacola, because I couldn't think of any appropriate downside for it. But then I thought ... well, I wanted people to be fighting over the Nukacola crafting stations, so I don't really care if it becomes a must have item

Killy, I disagree, I can imagine characters who would use all of them and several combinations - we shall see what the take up rate is.

For example:

Jet + Psycho + Buffout + Cola = +2 AP +3En (Effect is felt on critical tables, they have En tests) +1 Str -1 Pe -1 Ch

Headline effect +2 AP +1 Str -1 Pe ... fine for a Big Gunner.


About boosting the worse guns in comparison, your questions are ... ill considered The best guns will still be the best guns, just with a less massive advantage.

[Killy]

i wrote this before, what u think about it ?

nerfing the ma mk2 is a bad idea, if it was up to me i would as a question:
how many hits can one person get before death? and around this number all guns and armors supposed to be balanced,
armors are too weak, leather armors give no protection its better to go blue than wear them, mk gives something ca as well but its not enough, critical hits supposed to be reworked as well.
if armors are stronger and bypasses removed or nerfed it will make the time spent on gathering and crafting the armors worth it, battle will be longer, people will be able to use stimpacks etc ...


maybe the best idea is removing bypasses and making guns and shields against them:
avenger ---> ca, ca:bh huge normal dmg TR/TD, laser plasma fire almost zero
laser ----- > mk mk2 huge laser damage reduction, plasma fire normal almost zero
plasma ----> tesla
leather mk2 ( made of fire geckos )  -----> explosive, fire

[avv]

+1.   The same question.

Because they are still guns. Guns kill people regardless of their model. Insurgents with ak47 can still kill an elite soldier with 100,00$ worth of equipment. It's not the equipment but your personal skills and your life that counts, or at least that's how it's supposed to be. Besides even if it takes like 10 hours to craft and gather top tier stuff, it should also last 10 days to play with them. Unless you constantly stick your nose into hazardous areas.
You want to fight like a footsoldier who dies all the time, get used to lower tier stuff.

[Ned Logan]

why u boost cheap guns and nerf the most expensive weapons, does it make sense? u want to see a guy with a tommy gun which takes seconds to craft killing a guy in ca + avenger ?

So people would use cheaper gear and wasteland is not full of expensive gear soldiers. I would like it that way - gear with lesser differences in quality and if most of it was the best in certain situation. Not that there is single best armor and some best guns and rest is not used in top PvP...

About the drugs, if buffout is not nerfed, the only thing I see why someone would use jet, is sniper, combined with buffout and nuka. Otherwise no one would use it. Psycho should also be changed to +20 DR, with beer it might be viable for avenger tanks.

[Solar]

Armours will be untouched before the update. We have enough changing at one time for now, adding more variables would be a bad idea.

In the future I don't see any reason why we couldn't have a play around with them though.


About the drugs, we will go with what we have at the moment and adjust to feedback. At least get some playing time before beginning

[RavenousRat]

I would say thats more a fail for Nukacola, because I couldn't think of any appropriate downside for it. But then I thought ... well, I wanted people to be fighting over the Nukacola crafting stations, so I don't really care if it becomes a must have item

But what if you're pure buffouter without jet, psycho or something.
Anyway there's no reason to have more than 3 ST, because you can tag SG/FA/DOC and craft buffout yourself, you don't even need an alt.
It means, all SGers will have 3 ST and 7/9 AG or 6/8/10 AG+Cola. (depends on how hard to get cola after wipe)
So there's no drawback. While you have 3 ST you can do XPing with pistols, if you need to shoot from sniper/hunting/assault rifle, just eat buffout which you can craft yourself, because you have FA and Doc tagged.
Or it's supposed to be so?

[Killy]

about psycho it will be useless, i had a Big gunner build with 4 Pe nad 1 psycho, was useless i had 70% or 75 % DR and didnt feel any diffrence, 40% or 75% to me doesnt make diffrence, then i started taking 2 psychos which gave me 90% DR and that was it ...
about guns and costs:
there supposed to be a tree of guns, everything on the top must be very expensive and have the fire power, at this moment i dont use any BG build they are too expensive and too weak, if fast shoot will be reworked and low tier weapons boosted, most of the people who know how to play will stop use BG ( also it will nerf rocket launcher which is very weak atm )

[Rejfyl]

i got a question about drugs. Will they work longer then now? If yes, then i see no problem with new drug system

[Ned Logan]

I think it would be more sensible if jet had only -1 ST, and buffout also had -1 AP.

Yeah I agree they should work like 20-30 minutes, not 10.

[Solar]

(depends on how hard to get cola + other drugs after wipe)

Theres no real problem with drugs being desirable, they just have to be (at least roughly) similarly desirable and not so good that non drug chars stand no chance.

Afterall there will be limited supply (due to shops stock and limited -and unsafe- crafting places)

[Solar]

i got a question about drugs. Will they work longer then now? If yes, then i see no problem with new drug system

30 mins from 1 dose. You can keep taking more to be permanently "high".