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[Archvile]

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=709675&highlight=#709675

WEAPONS

Some random not thought through ideas:

Double accuracy penalties for aimed shots. Having 95% eye shot chance 95% of the time is too unrealistic. This would bring some combat diversity without modifying crits themselves (which is good) and making armors more useful without modifying them too (also good).

Big guns are big and heavy so holding them should make it impossible to run. So no running while having a big gun in an active slot for RT, and double cost of movement in TB while having a BG in either slot. Same goes for energy rifles (even though we might argue about if they are that big).

Energy rifles, being that they are potentially the best weapons would suffer from both these penalties, which might make the game more interesting.

Yay me! Suddenly everyone agrees!

Rocket launchers - how about making reload time equal (or near to) to shot time? After all, reloading a real rocket launcher would take a while, I imagine. If someone wants a rocket salvo, then make him carry many RLs.

[Kilgore]

No running with big guns? I'm sure that you even didn't think about it for 5 minutes, but ok.

I was once playing sniper with sharpshooter perk, and that's how I would deal with every biggunner out there if running with big guns was disabled in the game:

1. Catch him on approximately 50 hexes (range of sniper rifle).
2. Shoot in the head - check if he got stunned.
3. If not, just run a bit further to still have range advantage on him (so, about 50 hexes of distance)
4. Repeat 2-3 till he's dead.

100% safe and guaranteed to take out any big gunner.
Do you still think it is a good idea? Lol.

People, all you need to start is thinking about all consequences of something introduced into the game, not just "implement it because it sounds fun".Big guns are superior to small guns in close quarter battles but that's how it is supposed to be. Don't expect to win versus a big gunner if you try to "snipe" him from 10 hexes and obviously, that's how many people are playing their small gunners. Then they die and blame overpowered big guns for everything.

Now if you introduce no running or 9 ST needed to carry a big gun, hardly anyone will use it, so the next topic would be like "Nerf energy weapons because they are too powerful" and so on.

Small guns have to be improved, yes, just look at all those shotguns - they are totally useless in PvP combat, even those supposed to be powerful (for example Pancor Jackhammer).

Speaking about Strength requirements, there is already a difference between 5 ST sniper (or even 4 ST for P90) and 7 ST minigunner, but you just seem to haven't noticed it yet. Also, crafting ammo for a biggunner is one big mess - now think about all those who use small guns, how much ammo they need?

Before wipe and playing as a sniper, I needed at most 40-50 ammo for a major, long battle, if you want to fight that long with a minigunner, you have to bring more than 700-1000 ammo (that's how much of ammo some of our biggunners used in some of recent battles).

What about shooting from big guns? If you don't remember about splash damage, you will likely kill your friends. With a small gun you don't have to worry about that, you can take a good position and shoot from there and not care if someone is between you and your target.

Big guns were nerfed before, now since last wipe BROF is not longer working, so now what? Make minigun shooting 5-round bursts because you can't counter it with your hunting rifle? No, you just need to think for a moment to realise that with a smallgunner you have likely better perception and range than a biggunner and how to use it to win in combat.

If you need to improve or balance something, then waste more than 5 minutes on your ideas, not just "nerf X because I'm using Y".

[Badger]

Agreed. The main problem is how common they are. But that's what happens when you make everything craftable.

[Izual]

Well I agree with Kilgore (Edit: And with Badger too =p). As I said in my first post, Big Guns have to deal great damages amounts. The problem with them actually is the fact they're too easy to get, which ends in at least 60% of PvP fighters holding a Rocket Launcher, a Minigun or an ASL. I think it's sad, and it's a real problem.

It'd be exactly the same with APAs everywhere (60% of players wearing an APA). They shouldn't be nerfed, because they are meant to be good armor. But they should get harder to grab, that's my opinion. Do not look in a way to nerf the big guns power, but in a way to nerf the way you get some.

[Szef]

better perception and range

Disagree.

With 10 perc i rarely see enemy on my max range.

Avenger with 40 range and 250% in BG gives 95% to hit still. I remember one battle when 1 minigunner massacred 3 snipers from 40 hexes coz' no critical hit happened.

[Kilgore]

Well I don't know what are you talking about.

With 10 perception and sharpshooter you have 56 hex fov. Most of biggunners are running around with 6-7 perception, which is about 40 hex fov. Now you can use a sniper rifle that has 50 range or even assault rifle that has 45. 250% in BG is ridiculous, I don't who pumps it so high. For SG sniper, even 210-220% is enough to have a decent chance to hit into the eyes/head, as far as I remember.

If 1 biggunner managed to kill 3 snipers from 40 hexes then what can I say... they were likely weak, they should use firstaid, stimpaks to heal, not stand in 1 fucking place as most of people do, still use range advantage to take that BG out. Even without good criticals it should be easy for them to take him out, and if some shit happened because of triple BG critical then well... shit happens? How many times playing a biggunner you will be taken out by some guy with a jacket and hunting rifle just because he managed to stun you with the first shot? It just happens sometimes, one situation is nothing.

And man, if you have really high perception and sharpshooter then BG will just not see you till you hit him because you're out of his fov (at least, you should be).

[Reconite]

You have made some very good points on the subject, Kilgore. I agree with everything you said, to be honest.

[Pozzo]

I was once playing sniper with sharpshooter perk, and that's how I would deal with every biggunner out there if running with big guns was disabled in the game:

1. Catch him on approximately 50 hexes (range of sniper rifle).
2. Shoot in the head - check if he got stunned.
3. If not, just run a bit further to still have range advantage on him (so, about 50 hexes of distance)
4. Repeat 2-3 till he's dead.

Yes and that should be the advantage of smallgunners : MOBILITY

People, all you need to start is thinking about all consequences of something introduced into the game, not just "implement it because it sounds fun".

Kilgore maybe you didn't understand that the goal of a beta-test is to...test. We had a lot of features in the past which were bad, so devs set them off and now we know that was bad ideas. When you want to treat other like idiots you should think about we are on a forum and we are here to discuss.


So ok maybe big guns are too easy to find (like Izual said) but I think it is easy to find only for big factions who have a lot of crafters because in PvE we don't loot a lot of big guns now.
So what can be proposed to make it harder to find/craft ?

PS : sorry Archvil I didn"t see your topic before ^^ So maybe you have good ideas from your topic to balance SG/BG/EG ?

[Badger]

I think it's high time combat balance started. The combat system -works-, but it's nowhere near balanced.

If it was balanced we'd see people using pistols for more than PvE, meleers and unarmed in PvP, and so on. It's a mammoth task, too. It needs to be started, but it'll make the game a lot more satisfying.

[skejwen]

Kilgore maybe you didn't understand that the goal of a beta-test is to...test. We had a lot of features in the past which were bad, so devs set them off and now we know that was bad ideas. When you want to treat other like idiots you should think about we are on a forum and we are here to discuss.

Pozzo you maybe you dont understand that forum is created to discuss . If you feel like an idiot after reading Kilgores posts Im sorry for you.

[Pozzo]

I agree with you Badger. It is a big task and maybe devs have no time to work on it (because of crash server, etc.) so we can begin to think about that. I wish that unarmed and melee players could have a chance in PvP.
Maybe a special perk for unarmed/melee that allow them to have a chance to dodge bullets (a perk better than dodger). They should be the most agile and quick players of the game.

[skejwen]

Balancing never done any good for any mod - its wasting too much time. It should be left for very end, just before "final" release.

[Reconite]

Balancing never done any good for any mod - its wasting too much time. It should be left for very end, just before "final" release.

I agree, so much stuff is changed every few updates that 'balance' from before becomes obsolete.

[Roachor]

I agree with you Badger. It is a big task and maybe devs have no time to work on it (because of crash server, etc.) so we can begin to think about that. I wish that unarmed and melee players could have a chance in PvP.
Maybe a special perk for unarmed/melee that allow them to have a chance to dodge bullets (a perk better than dodger). They should be the most agile and quick players of the game.

It's called hth evade and it's broken.

[Kilgore]

Kilgore maybe you didn't understand that the goal of a beta-test is to...test. We had a lot of features in the past which were bad, so devs set them off and topic before ^^

Still, I see no point in trying out all ideas various people come up with, just because "they sound fun" or something. Sneak changes sounded fun and made that skill totally useless and now nobody cares about making it useful again (since a long time). Just nerfing everything is not a way to go, especially not in this moment, where devs are dealing with tonnes of other stuff.