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Author Topic: Profession Requirement Revision  (Read 5097 times)

Ganado

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Profession Requirement Revision
« on: August 18, 2010, 05:27:18 pm »

Profession Requirement Revision:

   Before going too deep into this, I would like to say the point of this thread is to try to change Profession requirements so that making a build that can have a profession and actually support itself in combat is possible, and not just be another alt. Right now, professions are very unbalanced and it only leads to alts because professions just limit the possibilities of a single player.

   
  •    The requirements I refer to will be final level requirements, in most cases [3] level requirements.
  •    I also make these suggestions so that one can make a balanced character with a profession without the need of drugs to get the requirements.

Demolition Expert Revision:
   1. Lower the Science requirement to 80. Why should more science be needed for a profession that will only require 80 Science to make the materials (HQ Gunpowder and Metal Parts)?
   2. Lower the Perception requirement to 6 Perception, which is needed for Bonus Rate of Fire, among other Perks. Why should 9 Perception be needed? It makes no sense; you are in a grenade profession, not a sniper profession. Having to have a 9 in Perception is taking valuable stat points that will make your character bad at combat; no grenadier builds have 9 Perception, or at least not any good ones.
   3. The only question that leaves is the Traps skill. As far as combat goes, Trap skill is really only used for blowing yourself up in NCR. It does have a combat potential that would require a strategy to do, but usually during events like Town Control, the opportunity to use Dynamite is very slim. It also can be good for committing suicide with PvE with friends, so there should still be a Traps requirement, and this is fine for now, but could be adjusted to balance out the lack of Science needed, and to balance throwing, which goes into my next point.
   4. The main part of this profession is making grenades and then using the Throwing skill to use them. If the Traps requirement is lowered a bit, and the Science requirement is lowered to 80, then there could certainly be enough skill points left to put into Throwing and First Aid, for a combative character.

Small Guns Revision:
   The Strength requirement is good, and the Agility requirement is good. This is one of the most balanced professions in the game, because one can actually make a balanced combat build off of this.
   1. 90% Science doesn’t make sense. Either make it 100% or 80%, for crafting HQ supplies.
   2. Something needs to be done with the Repair skill requirement. The reason for the Repair skill requirement does make sense, since you’ll need to repair your guns once you use them, but 120% repair isn’t going to fix a lot if you are actually going to try to use him for repairing your guns. However, this thread is not about fixing a Repair alt, so I’ll leave the Repair requirement alone for now.

Big Guns Revision:
   This profession is balanced to about the same extent of the Small Guns profession, and has its same problems:
   1. Once again, 90% Science should be changed to either 80% or 100%.

Armorer Revision:
   1. Lower the Strength requirement to 6, or maybe even 5. The only weapons that require 7 Strength are the Rocket Launcher and the Miniguns. The only (in-game, not special encounter) Small Guns weapon that requires 6 Strength is the Tommy Gun, which doesn’t really matter anyway. Again, excluding drugs from the issue, having to have 7 Strength loses precious stat points that a person with Small Guns skill would need. There is no other reason to make it so you need 7 Strength, other than a Big Guns Armorer, which shouldn’t be the only option.
   2. Other than the Strength, it is actually okay. The 180% Repair could be lowered, maybe to 150%, though it still wouldn’t be a fix to a Repair alt, either way, but again, I’m not going to deal with that for now.

Doctor Revision:
   Doctor profession is actually very balanced, because a build may already have Doctor and First Aid as tagged skills, so that part of it works out great. Still has some problems though.
   1. The Intelligence requirement needs to be lowered to 7. Most builds that are combat related don’t have 9 Intelligence, by my experience. They usually have 6 to 7, unless they are a sniper, in which case they might have 8 for the skill points required, but 9 is just too much.

Energy Expert Revision:
   Last but not least is the mess that is the Energy Expert Profession. Many changes need to be done with this profession.

   1. Foremost, exclude the Unarmed/Melee weapons from the Energy Expert Profession, put them into their own Profession(s), as already suggested a couple times, or simply make them craftable without a profession. 140% Energy Weapons should not, by any means, be needed to craft a Ripper that requires Melee skill to use, or a Power Fist that used Unarmed skill. This part of the profession is just screaming at someone to just make an Energy Weapon alt to be able to make the weapons for their HtH character.
   2. Lower Science requirement to 100, the skill level needed to make the HQ Alloys for the weapons. As said in the Demolition Expert section, more Science shouldn’t be needed for a profession than needed for the materials to make the items.
   3. This isn't directly related to the Profession, but, make Small Energy Cells not need Energy Weapon skill to make. It should be an “or” situation, meaning you either need a certain amount of Energy Skill, Unarmed skill, or Melee skill, and this would be affected by the starting skill levels; again, why should Energy Weapons be needed to create ammo that an HtH build would use for Power Fists or Rippers.

Thank you for reading; I hope you agree with my points.
If I could set the priorities, I would say that the Energy Expert is the highest priority to be re-done, while Demolition Expert is next, but I hope they all will be more balanced eventually.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 09:38:30 pm by Dishonest Abe »
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Wichura

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2010, 06:18:27 pm »

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Ganado

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2010, 06:56:59 pm »

I do.

Thanks, and yes, Repair can be tricky to balance, so that's why I focused on the other points to make it more balanced, but Repair needs to be somehow changed too, but I don't want to focus on that for now.
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Wichura

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2010, 07:17:02 pm »

I think that so high Demoliton Expert profession requirements were set to make suicide-bomber's life harder and prevent them from blowing up "for teh lulz". But why it has Traps, useless skill in combat, while it allows to make grenades (Throwing skill)? This only encourages to make alt only for grenades crafting.

Having 125% Melee skill allows you to make Super Sledgehammer, the mightiest Melee weapon. It has electronic parts inside (necessary to craft), but luckily doesn't require Energy Expert and I hope it will remaing so. Why high Unarmed doesn't let you to make Power Fists and Rippers? I fully support your idea here either.

Repair is useful skill, but you need to have it at least 180% to maintain stuff safely. And when you have to set it that high, there is not much skill points left unless your IN is below 10.
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kraskish

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 08:51:39 pm »

I agree with all you wrote but for the melee and unarmed energy weapons. Unless youre suggesting a new profession, call it "tribal" (unarmed and melee) it would spawn more alts.
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Wichura

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 09:11:44 pm »

Oh God, not again.

Current professions system is quite good, it needs a bit of balance though. If you are using Big Guns, it's natural that you need also to have certain skill in them, and you know how to fire, produce and maintain these weapons. And so with Small Guns, Energy Weapons, Melee ... Right now it's very hard to combine a crafter char with combat one, so we have alts - they can take any profession player wants, but it's done by sacrificing precious skill points on useless Traps or useless (below certain value) Repair.
And as a experienced PvP-playah ... erm, experienced settlers-player I can say that for sure :>
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kraskish

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 09:33:53 pm »

Yes I agree Wichura but thats why this OP suggestion is all about :o I didnt say anything against it. Just even if the ripper or power fist were craftable with melee and unarmed requirement it wouldnt change anything. Id rather have those both all in rather "tribal" profession than some drop out of Energy weapon profession. Plus a "tribal" would be very capable of combat, ok, as to its capabilities as unarmed or melee char ;)
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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2010, 09:46:25 pm »

Repair needs to be somehow changed too
Always succeed in repair, but requires junk for repair an item?
Have repair around 20%, you'll need X junk to repair crappy mauser.
Have repair around 100%, you'll need X/3 junk to repair it.
Then less and less, but min ammount is 1 junk.
Or failing in repair, but fail won't break item but only waste junk.

Why:
1) Instead of making repair-alt, you better find more junk by your main (and probably the only) character, even if you have low repair skill.
2) Right now repair skill is 0 and 1, it's 0 if your repair skill is below ~180-200%, and 1 if 180%+.

Anyway all I want to say, that if you have low skill in something you should be able to do that, but with more effort than higher skill, but it should be easier/less time conusming, than creating an alt which will be focused on that skill.
Probably the same with crafting, I think everyone should be able to craft everything, but if you have no profession you have chance to fail and lose partly (or all) resources depending on roll how bad you fail, and roll will depends on how bad your skills for that profession requirements and take cooldown.
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kraskish

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2010, 09:53:05 pm »

Always succeed in repair, but requires junk for repair an item?
Have repair around 20%, you'll need X junk to repair crappy mauser.
Have repair around 100%, you'll need X/3 junk to repair it.
Then less and less, but min ammount is 1 junk.
Or failing in repair, but fail won't break item but only waste junk.

Why:
1) Instead of making repair-alt, you better find more junk by your main (and probably the only) character, even if you have low repair skill.
2) Right now repair skill is 0 and 1, it's 0 if your repair skill is below ~180-200%, and 1 if 180%+.

Anyway all I want to say, that if you have low skill in something you should be able to do that, but with more effort than higher skill, but it should be easier/less time conusming, than creating an alt which will be focused on that skill.
Probably the same with crafting, I think everyone should be able to craft everything, but if you have no profession you have chance to fail and lose partly (or all) resources depending on roll how bad you fail, and roll will depends on how bad your skills for that profession requirements and take cooldown.

Alternatively,

my 2 solutions:

1st solution

different levels of repairs according to stuff levels (100% = 100 or 95% of lvl 1 stuff repaired, 150% for lvl 2 and 200% for lvl 3)


2nd solution
Crafters = repairmen. Simply you acquired lvl 1 small guns? You can repair them! lvl 2 and 3 stuff at your 2nd and 3rd rank of your profession!
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Imprezobus

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2010, 02:49:04 am »


2nd solution
Crafters = repairmen. Simply you acquired lvl 1 small guns? You can repair them! lvl 2 and 3 stuff at your 2nd and 3rd rank of your profession!

funky, as my beloved gunmaker would finally stop repairing bazookas/armors he knows nothing about (with possibility of saving Skill Points too).


I like RR's suggestion bout junk too, because for now its like having a junked, unworking piece of crap (called armor) which magically becames perfect tool after one click with char of repair skill of level "1".

anyway, such things like Skill Points needs to be reworked, as almost everything in this game, to fit "online" part more than "2" after "F". Its Fonline, right?
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LagMaster

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2010, 07:10:11 pm »

i think the requirement for srt for armorer is so big becoze is calculated that you can cary the maths to do the most heavyest armors whit min str and small frame,but i do not have an armorer alt, so idk
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Sius

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2010, 10:39:51 am »

Crafting is the most rotten thing in FOnline that makes it such a bore and sinks insane amount of time. It needs more than just revision. All those SPECIAL requirements kill the game and force pretty much everyone to alt. I want to be able to roll whoever I want and do whatever I want. My stats should only determine how easy things will go or not. Choosing your path at the first minute of the game and then suffering the consequences is the reason why many people leave FOnline at the very beginning.

Simply even combat char should be able to craft and vice versa. Now you force people to spend points in SPECIAL because they have to reach some limits to be able to learn the profession etc. People should spend their SPECIAL as they see fit not as the game command them.
In original Fallouts you could roll anyone from total tribal idiot or pornstar to killing machine or scientist. But in FOnline your path is already decided the moment you press "DONE" button in registration. There is no other way for you other than your stats will allow you. And THAT ladies and gentlemen is the huge flaw that concerns mainly crafting.

Solar

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2010, 01:21:33 pm »

Quote
Crafting is the most rotten thing in FOnline that makes it such a bore and sinks insane amount of time.

Crafting takes hardly any time. Even the clunky fix boy, which we all needs to be redone, doesn't add much extra time. With 1 hour and 20 minute cumulative cooldowns its possible to craft even high end things in little time. :/

The profession requirements are a bit silly though, they predate me even being on the 2238 team, so will need looking at.

One thing that will happen is 3rd tier will disappear, so all those higher requirements won't count anyway.
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Wichura

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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 01:38:26 pm »

Crafting takes hardly any time. Even the clunky fix boy, which we all needs to be redone, doesn't add much extra time. With 1 hour and 20 minute cumulative cooldowns its possible to craft even high end things in little time. :/
Indeed - I still remember digging rocks with 12 minutes cooldown per 5 pieces. I can't tell how many movies I watched during "playing" this way :>
One thing that will happen is 3rd tier will disappear, so all those higher requirements won't count anyway.

Welcome to the Wasteland!
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Re: Profession Requirement Revision
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2010, 01:56:17 pm »


One thing that will happen is 3rd tier will disappear, so all those higher requirements won't count anyway.

Wait...does that mean for example that my beloved sniper rifle cant be crafted anymore?

Chiko
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