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Author Topic: Combat system development to cease  (Read 5569 times)

Nice_Boat

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Combat system development to cease
« on: June 25, 2010, 12:48:24 pm »


This thread is neither an accusation nor a confession,
and least of all an adventure,
for counter-trolling is not an adventure
to those who stand face to face with it.
It will simply try to tell of a group of players who,
even though they may have escaped the posts,
were destroyed by the trolls...


This is coming from an experienced PvP player who had to deal with bullshit produced here for quite a long time... I don't know, probably over a year, starting from the old forums. Look. The combat system, as it stands, is balanced. People are using BG, SG, EW and heck, even throwing - and there's no way of telling what's DA STRONGEST. As it stands, unless there comes a build to kill them all (I don't think it'll ever come though), combat is graded A+. My suggestion is: quit allowing suggestions on weapon stats. Quit allowing suggestions on combat mechanics. And if you have to do some shit, treat it seriously. Do a closed beta test. This kind of balance is not easily achieved, and you could ruin it with something as trivial as increasing the AP cost of some weapon by 1 or changing the values for a box of ammo. Let's face it. This is the best original Fallout mechanics have to offer. To do any better as far as realism goes would mean to depart from source material... because honestly, the source material ain't that good when it comes to that. To do any better as far as balance goes... well, you can't, really. Kudos to the dev-team for that. Let's just wrap it up and move on.

I suggest making a serious decision whether we should:
a) keep it close to F1 and F2
b) develop an entirely new combat system, changing the guns etc. as we go and basically start from scratch.

If we choose a) (because honestly, who cares if the minigun fills the rl role of a submachinegun or the grenade takes 0.001 of a second to throw - as long as it looks cool), let's just stop it. At this time the only thing that's hurting combat is stuff-other-than-combat. Drugs. Preview. The economy. Shit like that.

No more insta-kill nerfs. No more major BG adjustments. No more anything that would flip the table upside-down. Endgame weapons are good as they are. And yes. This is probably the first suggestion not to do something instead of doing something. But saving what we have is well worth it.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 12:51:18 pm by Nice_Boat »
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Izual

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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2010, 12:51:23 pm »

Quote
Do a closed beta test.
If only !...

What do you suggest ? If it's not to change anything, it belongs to General Game discussions.
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Nice_Boat

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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2010, 12:54:49 pm »

If only !...

What do you suggest ? If it's not to change anything, it belongs to General Game discussions.

I suggest not to do stuff with weapons and armors and to do stuff to preview and drugs. In my opinion, this belongs to this board because honestly, this board needs to hear this. A suggestion that something is REALLY good is as valuable as the suggestion to make it +1 or -2 if the stuff remains flexible, if you catch my drift.

Solar

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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2010, 01:37:16 pm »

Hrm, I don't imagine there will be any big changes to the weapons or the crit tables from now on. Drugs and Perks still need some work and I imagine a CBT similar to the TC one would be used when the time comes.
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avv

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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2010, 02:40:01 pm »

The combat system, as it stands, is balanced.

Between powerbuilt combat chars with alt crafters supporting them. It is balanced around how players play it. But is the way they play it how devs would have wanted?
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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2010, 04:10:22 pm »

It's "balanced" because players have balanced themselves around it.

Honestly, I still think some Tactics stuff could be thrown in, like crouching and lying prone... but that has to wait till the 3d models get put in
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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2010, 07:24:31 pm »

The event was completely dominated by BG minigun builds, I wouldn't call that balanced.
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Crazy

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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2010, 07:56:59 pm »

The event was completely dominated by BG minigun builds, I wouldn't call that balanced.
Huh, totally false, I was one and really haven't fight more minigun than other builds (much more SG/RL/energy/thrower)
And I agree, I find the actual system very balanced.
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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2010, 08:20:59 pm »

I find BG to be much MUCH more powerful than SG.  Much more powerful than to account for the scarcity of the guns and ammo for BG.  All you need is an alt.  The reason there is this many SG, is because most noobs start as SG, and there are a lot of noobs in this game.  I've had a party of 5 been taken out by one guy with a minigun.  Minigun has such superior range, he can take you out before you even see him, and it takes you out pretty much instantaneously.
I guess one thing that balances a tiny bit is that if you get minigunned, mostly all your shit gets destroyed.
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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2010, 09:55:29 pm »

What about melee and unarmed characters? Do you find balance there, too?
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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2010, 10:00:27 pm »

Snipers rely on luck, big guns can 1-2 shot anyone. Hardly balanced.
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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2010, 10:17:17 pm »

sneak is unbalanced, supposed to be nerfed, srsly, a band of looting alts that cannot be noticed takes all the stuff when TC takes place
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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2010, 10:21:14 pm »

I only had minigun experience from the receiving end ( ;D), but if it is such an issue...

Why not add a small chance of the firing character being knocked down unless they wear Power Armor? Modified to some respect by strength, obviously, but still sufficiently likely to occur (though not too often - it should be something to consider, and sometimes impacting the flow of combat, but not frequently enough to cripple minigun use) to make it a consideration for the gunner?

It fits the lore (miniguns were meant for PA use), adds a balancing factor to the combat system (if it is needed - from what I read on the forums it seems that miniguns do offer much greater advantage in real-time combat compared to other weapons), and also makes combat more exciting (as long as it does not make it frustrating with too big of a penalty).

Melee and unarmed builds are for masochists purely. Which probably explains why I'm having so much fun with the former  ;D A small compensation for their difficulty might be lowering aimed shots cost - in PvE, they are at a disadvantage because of the need of closing with opponents (see Endless Walker combat tactics as an example), and in PvP the mere necessity of pulling up aiming window puts one at a severe disadvantage.

My half a cap.
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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2010, 10:28:28 pm »

sneak is unbalanced, supposed to be nerfed, srsly, a band of looting alts that cannot be noticed takes all the stuff when TC takes place

sneak is perfect as is. The skill drain balances it completely.
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Re: Combat system development to cease
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2010, 10:45:09 pm »

listen dude i have 12 P and cannot notice an alt 7 hex away from me looting stuff, and im talking about alts with 300 sneak its not balanced as long as people can use alts
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