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I agree, absolutely

12 (34.3%)

I agree, but i would change something

8 (22.9%)

I disagree, because of some ideas

6 (17.1%)

I disagree, absolutely

4 (11.4%)

I abstain

5 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 35

Voting closed: May 08, 2010, 07:57:26 pm

[avv]

is this RL or fallout ?, i belive that in 2077 were advanceed light , hard set and tough alloys and high technologies which allowed to make portable machine guns and miniguns, we are still in fallout.

But because in fallouts miniguns were later game weapons they are obviously more powerful than most small guns, rendering many potential small gun useless in fonline. Besides, we already voted for gun balance, there's no reason to argue for it again. Where were you when we were discussing whether or not guns should be balanced?

[Johnny Nuclear]

energy weapons and sniper rifles were later in game too,
i was here but i thought this is only next lordus's try how to nerf bigguners, which could be closed soon , well i thought wrong.

[Josefista]

is this RL or fallout ?, i belive that in 2077 were advanceed light , hard set and tough alloys and high technologies which allowed to make portable machine guns and miniguns, we are still in fallout.

yes and Minigun is still 5 x bigger than shotgun. In buildings will always rule small guns such as smgs/pistols/shotguns. Machine guns were always been just covering weapons. Seems I should take your "Rockwell gold card" out of you

This is very good topic btw, hope it will be implemented as fast as possible and we get balanced fights full of dmfferent chars. Only with your graf we have so much possibilities there. Shotguns, smgs, assault riffles and others will be useable! GJ

EDIT: Lordus is not natural sniper, hes objective inhere

[Johnny Nuclear]

i just hope this will be sg=eg=bg and not sg=eg>bg. well..... I recognize that resistance is futile. [/resistance]
*just took his avenger and left*

[Sius]

i just hope this will be sg=eg=bg and not sg=eg>bg. well..... I recognize that resistance is futile. [/resistance]
*just took his avenger and left*

Balance is what we seek. No one is trying to boost his favorite weapon class. And if there should be any pattern for guns then it should be SG>(BG=EG). But not in matter of dmg or things like that but in general accessibility of weapons. I mean literary everyone should be able to fight with decent dmg output and SGs should become something common among players. Now its sg/bg/eg or no gun. I think no gunners should turn into small gunners with basic weapon knowledge. Sure I don't want to turn crafter into serial instakill sniper but everyone should be able to defend himself effectively no matter what build he rolls. Now when you take 20 average build guys and crafters from NCR and close them in small room with 4 guys from north then there are small chances that crafters will kill at least 2 powerbuilders. Most of the players in NCR never used gun on something more lethal than molerat and that should change. Thats the problem that causes creaters alts, powerbuilders, powercrafters and all that shit what should never exist in this game... You either choose to PvE or PvP and develop your character that way but you should be always capable of decent combat even if you roll hippie kind of character.

[avv]

To allow differend gun roles a new tactical feature could be implemented. It could be sequence which already exists in our SPECIAl. It just hasn't had any use in RT.
So what it means is how fast you can perform an action with certain type of weapon and how fast your character reacts.

For every character the sequence could be around the same, it couldn't be increased greatly with any build. What affected sequence most would be what gun you're using. Pistols gave great bonus to sequence, big guns and snipers could give no plus at all, or even reduce sequence. When you have great sequence your actions with your active item will be performed very quickly. With low sequence there will be a delay because it takes time to turn and aim your gun. With good sequence you would get the advantage of getting to shoot first and switch positions faster to shoot from another direction.

Sequence could be affected by your movement. If you're running, you get very low sequence because you're not prepared to do anything. When you stop moving, your sequence would slowly return to normal depending on your gun. Pistols would regenerate sequence faster. If you're walking, you get again better sequence and while standing still you get the best sequence. We could have a sequence bar to show how fast you will act.

To make big gunners get the first shot even sometimes, we could have third sequence affecting feature: aiming direction. You could take a direction, press certain shortcut and get a field deployed in front of you.
Just like here.

When someone steps on that field, you get the first shot automatically because the person is right on your sights. This is an important principle in a modern infantry warfare.

To make sequence work correctly, we would have to have autoshoot feature that automatically targets and shoots enemies. Right now pvp is slightly dependent on player's reflexes and that's just not the right way in tactical games.

[Johnny Nuclear]

about tactics, good thing would be AC bonuses when u are covering yourself, biggest AC bonus could be if you were in building near window. smaller bonus if you were near corner of building, or behind barrel and smallest bonus if you were near tree or street lamp.
these bonuses would be huge for example if you were shooting from window you could have 60 or more AC bonus, because its really hard to hit you if you are shooting from window cover

of course these AC bonuses would depend on weight of weapon you are holding

[avv]

about tactics, good thing would be AC bonuses when u are covering yourself, biggest AC bonus could be if you were in building near window. smaller bonus if you were near corner of building, or behind barrel and smallest bonus if you were near tree or street lamp.
these bonuses would be huge for example if you were shooting from window you could have 60 or more AC bonus, because its really hard to hit you if you are shooting from window cover

of course these AC bonuses would depend on weight of weapon you are holding

Correct. And trying to flank an enemy who is in good positions would be a key element in pvp.

[Lordus]

AP ammo with penetrate perk = DT/5 if you didnt know

so you really think that shotgun should be stronger than minigun in 1 hex fight ?  

1) there will exist ammo with AP modifier or more DMG modifier in the same caliber.. But it has to be balanced.

2) shotgun should have maybe the same damage on 1-5 hexes like minigun, but minugun should have ability to be powerfull to quite longer distances.
   Shotgun should have knockback perk, but i dont know, if this gun perk is usefull (in comparsion with knockdown...)

is this RL or fallout ?, i belive that in 2077 were advanceed light , hard set and tough alloys and high technologies which allowed to make portable machine guns and miniguns, we are still in fallout.

 Johnny, please, look carefuly to the single player progress graph. Fallout was singleplayer one and all weapons and armors and skills were created for this purpose. More advance in game, more powerfull weapons. But this current system leads to situatiom, where you have only 2 reasonable PvP classes: sniper and biggunner burster, because they are on the top of the progress graph line. So this is the problem.

 I must repeat, i dont like instakills too much, yes, they should be ingame, but sniper should show his PLAYERS (not avatar) skill: sniper will do damage only at high distances, so he must hold distance, insta kill should aim only to eyes, with penalty of miss if your target will more in direction,...

 But BGunners have to be changed too. If not, only solution if we want to balance is to make same damages for assault riffles. Then ok, your BG will be the same, but you will cry more.

 In my point of view, there should exist 2 very same type of weapons, one in SG class, one in BG class. AK47 for SG (with 7,62 ammo), and LSW for BG (7,62 ammo). They will use the same ammo, so their damage will be different only by number of bursted bullets. Then we can add ability to shoot AK47 single aimed shot, and the line of fire will be quite longer and direct in opposite of LSW (no chance of aim single shots, less longer and direct line, quite bigger bursts).

 But in my point of veiw, miniguns have to be reduced by something.. my ideas.

 1) 5mm ammo will be less efective than 7,62, so it wil not have same penetration effect nad will do less damage, BUT you will have to make a choice AP or JHP. Also i suggested 2 different types of armors, so as a biggunner, you will have to make a choice of adequate ammo in the battle (not before).

 2) I think that with minigun in active slot, you should not run.. If you want to run, you can choose the LSW, or take both or take any SG for defense. I know that you will protest, but try to understand my arguments.

 Because of minugun will have quite shorter distance than other guns, you dont need to spend to many points there like other builds need to. So you will be able to spend some points into SG ... not many for sniper riffles or assault riffles weapons, but enough for average SMG or shotgun.. This will allow you to defend yourself until you will deploy minigun. Dont forget, that you will still have choice to take LSW.

 3) Because this is very big reduction for miniguns, i think they need have some advantage too (if you dont think that best damage across all weapons until 15-20 hex is not enough). I suggest, that magazines for miniguns class should be bigger by 2-3 times, and, you will be able to load it with 2 kind of ammo together: AP and JHP. Point is, that you will be able to realtime reload by some key shortcut (or at least by right click on icon) (no AP need to change your ammo type). This will give you HUGE advantage on short distances. The reload time of full magazine should be very long (i.e.8 AP), but because you will have 2-3x times more ammo, it wont limit you to much.

 4) If players and devs will be against the point of 2 (unable to run with minigun in active slot), THERE must exist something to stop this kind of weapons, because they will be (they are) overal more powerfull than other weapons.

 Miniguns are not basic machine guns.. In machine gun, there is not any electronic. But in minigun, you need power generator to rotate the barrels, to load every barrel, etc. etc. So countermeasure will be EMP grenade. EMP grenade should have then disable weapon for short time (at least 15-30 second), so you will be unable to use it. Maybe special EMP shell for rocket launcher will be better too because no many grenadiers will survive the meeting with minigunner.

 Sequence:

I like the idea of implementation, but i dont like the limitation in your movement (your movement will be slower).

 So, my idea: until your sequence will be normal, your weapon skill will be lower. So if you want to sniper someone, you will have to wait some time (3-5 seconds), until your sequence will be at your normal position. Until this, your skill will raise from cca 50 percent slowly (3-5 sec) to the 95 percent.

SMG, shotguns, pistols will have less requirement for sequence, assault riffles bigger, snipers and BG more..

[avv]

Hololasima I don't deny that I might not have as much pvp experience as you do, but I do know that I have much pvp experience with balanced build (skillpoints and perks invested in other than pvp related ones). In these forums it's clearly visible that some people don't have a clue what's it like to pvp with other than powerbuilds.

I like the idea of implementation, but i dont like the limitation in your movement (your movement will be slower).

By movement you mean the delays caused by low sequence or movement (running, walking) increasing ? Because we can't get stances (Lexx said it), differend movement could be made a strategic element. We already have running, walking and standing after all, not using them would be waste of material and everyone would just run and never walk.

So, my idea: until your sequence will be normal, your weapon skill will be lower. So if you want to sniper someone, you will have to wait some time (3-5 seconds), until your sequence will be at your normal position. Until this, your skill will raise from cca 50 percent slowly (3-5 sec) to the 95 percent.

SMG, shotguns, pistols will have less requirement for sequence, assault riffles bigger, snipers and BG more..

So basically it's the accuracy that's reduced. It could work this way too. Yeh, it's probably better that way than not being able to shoot at all. It would be just annoying having to cope with constant delays.

So did I get this straight: a dude with smg decides to shoot a dude from close range. When the player lays his sight on the enemy, the accuracy number starts to raise. It rises depending on the gun and distance. Because the dude is holding an smg, the accuracy rises to 95% very quickly. This would be very good feature if it could be implemented. It would really make the guns good in differend roles.
Another scenario: a sniper is stalking his victim from long range. He sees a big gunner camping a clearing. He lays his sight on the dude and accuracy starts to climb again. It would take few seconds to reach maximum accuracy and then the sniper would choose to fire. He could fire at any time but with less accuracy.

Was this what you had in mind?

[Lordus]

I am only surprised why PvP players dont post some reaction on this. Sorry, but seriously, right now two mens(First dont play and second is mostly PvE player) trying make game what they want.

 Holo, i always had a respect of you. But now, i am thinking that i will have to make a little change.

 I know, you know it and almost everyone from VSB too, that PvP is totaly unbalanced[/color]. I was always listen crying Johnny about instakills (in second era), when they were eliminated (3rd era) i heard that knocks are ruining the game, because some sniper hold Johnny's biggunner pvp build on ground until he killed him. You, Hololasima, were wery angry when you did realize, that your laser sniper was useless in third era, and you create BG then. In this era, you were posting suggestion about sneak, because it was too overpowered,..

 Only 6 guns are now useable in PvP[/color]. 4 of them (both miniguns, lsw, rocket launcher) belongs to BG class. Sniper rifle in sniper class, and laser rifle in EW class. Other dozens of guns are unused because they are too weak. They cant do so much big damage like BG or they cant do hight critical damage on long ranges. THIS IS FACT[/color] I explained why is this happening. (Single player problem definition).

 So if we want to make PvP that Fallout deserves, we need to make changes. Sorry if i am telling you the truth, but this PvP tactic possibilites are funny in comparsion if modern games or even old ones. One era PvP wons more players with BG 3x burst build, another era sniper with instakill, then BG, then SG. Almost one year of balancing and we are in the circle.

 There were many players realizing this (others than me and VSB), so they invested their time and they created suggestions about changes. But they failed. They failed because they ignore global view on this problem and they failed because they dont involve other players into the solution of this.[/color]

 So i had an idea. CREATE NOT SUGGESTION, BUT PROCESS, WITH PRE DEFINE STAGES[/color], that will allow to EVERYONE TO JOIN THiS PROCESS,[/color] but with some STAGES[/color], just because if we want to achieve our goal, we have not to go back after week or month of work.

 First stage was this: http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=4205.0 PvP balancing, part 0., part 1., PvP Constitution . I described there what i described personaly to you and i put there a request that i hope people will join this process.
  
 NOBODY from VSB, except Sius, put anything to this process[/color]. I made another post, where i was little disapointed with this. You Hololasima, had a chance to post your opinion there, but you did not.

 Then i made an election about this. The majority agreed with the result of our Constitution.[/color] I repeat, the majority. I dont know if you were voting, but you had a choice!!!!! (In our country, there will be soon Parliament election, so please, dont be disapointed to the result, if you dont vote there).
 
 So we create the Constitution, only Abstract ideas about game itself[/color], and the process went to send stage.

 In this stage n.2, EVERYONE is ALLOWED to put here your ideas, but that ideas have to be COMPATIBLE with Constitution[/color], because, we dont want to be in circle, like i described before.

 So if you dont understand Holo, YOU HOLO, and YOU VEDARAS, you are very welcome and i hope you will join this process.[/color] But like in real world, there are kind of people, only with negative aproach: "I dont like this, this sucks, you sucks, this is retarded, -1 Lordus,...", but this kind of aproach/people NEVER created something.[/color] So if you dont like our suggestions, put here your another ideas, compatible with the majority liked PvP constitution, or wait, until there will be final vote.

 IMO, you Vedaras and you Holo, Johnny, were first thinking, that this process will not have a succes. So you did not care. Why i have to care, i am only Betatester of this project, my n.1 duty is to enjoy my time, not to help developers (sarcasm end). Then you realized, that this process involved more players, interesetd in this game, in PvP, ... so you overreacted. You know, Holo, what me and you and other players from VSB thinks about Vedaras and his ideas (dont take it personal Vedaras). You and me had experienced from many PvP combats and we dont like someone who is ruining this PvP without experience with PvP itself. But i realized, that this current game concept is very flat. One char better to long range, one to close range, thats all (because of Single player problem definition). This is even worse than stone-scissors-paper idea. So i am trying to make something with this. You are not.

 Edited by Lordus, the color rainbow is disabled now
 

[Sius]

And here is the core of the problem. Players and their objectivity. All you can see Holo is the guy who does not play and guy who does PvE. But one does not have to be king of the hill to notice that combat need changes. And everyone can post their ideas and suggestions how to improve things. So far everyone tried to post mostly hotfixes through nerf/boost "solutions" and as you can see its like on the rollercoaster. In one patch we remove instakills. With another we get them back and so on. This is not the way to go. So I believe that Lordus is fighting a good fight here when he is trying to think out of the box. Thats what I miss on current development. Perspective.
So when someone as crabbed as you or Vederas gets here and start judging people (and their ideas/suggestions) then I'm sorry but you are acting like blinded fool. You may see inactive or PvE guys talking about PvP here but its two-edged weapon. In your posts I see shortsighted player that lacks perspective and objectivity. I've worked few years as an admin in once upon a time large gaming community and my job was to be objective and solve other peoples problems. So I consider myself kinda open minded and objective person. And I think the same about Lordus or avv and I doubt they are doing all of this just to profit from it as players if its ever going to be implemented.

And as for the "never going to happen" or "not Fallouty" wannabe arguments then really you should listen to moderators. FOnline is MMORPG if you have not noticed. That fact itself makes out of it something so fucking badly not Fallouty that "not Fallouty" argument sounds next to that like someone puke words. Its based on game we love but it can't be the same. It could be if FOnline is Fallout 1/2 coop but not as MMO. If it ever wants to be working and entertaining game then it must develop its own way how to deal with problems and shut everything down just because its "not Fallouty" (and its not Fallouty since it has not appeared in original games) can come only from really but really ignorant people. I dunno maybe horses are not Fallouty, maybe teleporters or phasers are not Fallouty but using "not Fallouty" argument to shush suggestions? People really wake up.


Anyway I would like to ask moderators to delete any post that does not have anything to add to topic that is being discussed here (including this post). So if there is any moderator around, please delete+modify posts to keep this topic flame free.


EDIT by Surf Solar: Done.

[Lordus]

I will try to entice players into this process by another way.

 How do i imagine the future pvp? I will start with example.

 I am part of small gang, but with periodical playing temates. So i know, that strategicaly i am unable to control many cities, maybe one is too much for us, but i know, that i can enjoy PvP too. Because we are crafting, trading etc., we have variety of resources and guns and armors, so we can choose best equipment for every combat situarion.

 In the time of PvP, i notice, that there are enemies in city. It is well known, powerfull gang with many members. In the city, there are at least 5 biggunners (3 miniguns, 2 LSW), two snipers (SG or EW) and rest of them (5) are assault rifles classes. Because they have to captur the city now, they need to wait there and protect it.

 Ok, i know  that direct attack will be suicide for our 5 players ready to fight team. So what is our choices?

 We know, that they have to wait there until they will capture the city, so we know, that they will not have a chance to change their weapons. So we will take our PvP chars and equip them into night fight.

 At night (ingame), perception of all players is reduced by (-2), so all of us will try to equip guns with night vision, so the reduction will be only (-1). Biggunners are unable to take nighvision to their weapons, because they are unable to put the minigun night vision cross hair to near their eyes, because they dont have cross hair, they dont need it.

 Enemy snipers are equiped with variable telescope sight, so they have quite bigger range of fire distance than without it (15-50 hex, instead of 20-50 hex), but this kind of telescope sight is not compatible with night sight variant, that our snipers will be equiped.

 Also, enemies are expecting bigger enemy forces, so their assault riffles players are without night sight, but they are equiped with attached grenade launcher.

 This special kind of grenade launcher has 2 kind of ammo: every types does moderate damage, one has very reducing enemy armor ability (it will almost destroy enemy defence armor ability), but does damage only to one enemy. Other kind has not ability to damage enemy armor, but has splash effect, so it does damage few hexes around hitted targed (even friendly damage). You can load this attached GL only with 1 grenade, reloading another takes to many time (8 ap), so you are not able to reload it in direct fight again. Also, nades are quite heavy, so you dont have many in your equipment. We are expecting, they have splash damage grenades.

 Because we know our enemies and their tactic, we know that they are often standing close together, especially at night, because this helps to reduce the chance of "hits from nowhere (cant see the source of the hit)". Because of this, one of our small gunner takes personal grenade launcher.

 This kind of weapon does very unconsistent damage. You can fire it at one target, but it will not 100% hit him, even if you have 95% percent of chance to hit. But you are able to shot 3 splash damage nades in one burst near the target, so it has area damage.

So we enter the city in one direction and at night.

We have one pure sniper char.

  Sniper char is able to make instakill, but he need to use special one attack. This attack requires this:
 1) sniper rifle (or at least hunting, laser rifle)
 2) aim with special attack to enemy eyes
 3) enemy have to stand in front of you in distance of 20-50 hexes (i have not my variable telescope sight, but night vision)
 4) attack .. when you push this, your target have to not move for 2,5 second (half time of AP reloading time, i think). Your AP points will substract from 8 AP, and when they reach 4 AP (or half of the required amount of AP you need to use eyeshot), your gun will fire. This kind of attack will be instakill (or at least high chance of instakill). If your enemy will move, rotate (so you wll not aim to his eyes), your shot will be aimed at the different body part (head, or torso). If somebody will shot you during your instakill fight, you will missed.
 
 // or another way, if you have sniper rifle in your active slot, or change your weapons to slot with sniper rifle, you AP will be zero and they will refresh up only when you are standing still, so you need little time to aim//

 5) you can also use classic shot (even eyeshot), like current (eye)shots, but it will never make instakill, even if you hit eye

So we killed one player (sniper with non night vision). At the same moment, our GL smallgunner shot burst of 3 splash damage granades into the group of enemies. Nobody will die, everyone is ligthly damaged, but one of them has crippled leg, so he is unable to counter attack for a moment.

At this moment, enemies realized that they are under attack, they identificate the way from where attack started and they rushed.

 But we were quite prepared, our Demoexpert, planted radio controled mines near the corner of expected enemy attack.

 This mines are exploding by pushing the button, but there is limitation. You are allowed to plant maximaly 3 bombs at same time, and all of them will explode at one time. 3 of them at one place are enough to kill one player, but demoexpert must stay in contact with bombs (50? hex), or he will not be able to use them. They are armed only if they are placed on ground, they can be destroyed by nades or burst, and because they are connected with Pip boy radio transmiter, only demoexpert could use them. Also, there exist counter measure.. it is kind of jammer. If you are in the location, or over the location (on world map) and you see planted radio mines, you can turn on the jammer. The jammer will for some time checking the radio frequency, and after some time, it will 100% find all frequencies of deployed radio mines. Then you will have a choice, explode it (all of them) in one time, or jamm the owners radio controler so they will be unable to explode (if you are continue in jamming, if you die, and mines are still there, the owner will be able to control them again). More skill in traps, more time enemy needs to find the frequency, and of course, more skill in traps, less time i will need to fing the enemy frequency. But limit should be cca 2-3 minutes. So it will be unable to block the entrances by mines (if you will have enough demoexperts), but you will be able to block some space for short time or prepare the trap.


 Enemy does expected this kind of trap, so they fire there one nade from attached GL.. it destroys 2 radio mines, but 3rd exploded and criplled enemy leg, so he was unable to rush.

 (exploding guns have generaly bigger chance to cripple than to kill (if you have at least some unbroken armor on yourself), so if you have combat medic with doctors bag, you can heal your mates quickly and they are able to continue in fight.)
 
But their huge counter attack continues, we are moving to north of the city, to hide near buildings. But one of us, smalgunner with P90 with attached noice absorber is sneaking at toilet and their rush wave did not noticed him.

 His P90 with attached noice absorber allows him to shoot burst for little less distance, than this gun is originaly designed, but with ability to stay in sneak after burst (75 percent after first burst, 75 after second, .. so he has total chance of 50 percent after two bursts to stay in sneak (75 + his luck)).

 He waits until the wave is gone and then he attack in sneak the injured one, he kill him, stay in sneak and then he tries to find enemy sniper. Enemy sniper is defenceless until he will change his weapon. He changes to desert eagle, when he see enemy sneaker. He shoots one eyeshot, he succed, but 2 bursts from enemy P90 and one grenade is killing him.


 Reloading the weapon should (generaly, but with exception) take more time than changing active slot and use secondary weapon.

Enemy rush continues, we are shoting at longer distances, because we have night vision, but than five of their biggunners rush our team, and because they have unbalanced weapons, they run to our position, 3x burst us on 40 hex distance with their avengers and they killed us. End of tactic story.

 

[avv]

Yeh pvp would totally need some more strategic features the way you described it Lordus. Maybe not completely like that, but I do agree with the sniper aiming delay. We can add all sorts of cool gadgets like nightvision, silencers and jammers later. It can be hard to hold our horses when it comes to inventing new things. Let's still just keep it to the basics and try not get too carried away.

So the subject is still balance. It includes characters and weapons both. Let's try to outline some basic principles for character balance, lock them and move forward.

So question is: how are we going to make it so that every character has equal chances to pvp effectively? Problems which this goal faces are too high potentials in skills, too high potential to be good or bad at something and unbalanced perks.

I've wrote this things earlier but I'll write them again. Characters can be absolute monsters in pvp or total losers. A character can have 3 actions points and very low hitpoints. Nobody wants to play this kind of character. Some perks are obviously pvp related, others are not but don't give good enough tradeoff.

So what should be done is that character build only determines what your economic source will be and how you will fight. Not how good you will be in getting your money and defeating your enemies, that's when your own skills step in.

Skills and stats would unlock perks. Skills would mainly unlock perks and profesions, weapon skills wouldn't affect accuracy because in the end your accuracy will be determined by your weapon, range, enviroment and armors. Profesion related skills would still determine chance of success because healing another player cannot be made dependent on player's skills.
Stats would give some passive character propertiers like now, except that their worst values should be changed. Nobody wants to play combat char with en1 or agi1. Pe1 is very bad aswell. So we gotta have minimum possible ap, hp and field of view. And perks unlockable with stat ammounts of 1,2,3,4 and 5, not just over five like it is now. This prevents players from just dumping stats they don't need.

Let's try to nail these character issues, then we could move onward to weapons and lock the balance chapter.

[Johnny Nuclear]

ahh now i know why there arent any posts by PvP players, its because solar deleted it all.