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[Elmehdi]

...

Yeah, a character progress should consist of many little steps, not just 7/5 giant leaps forward and should last for much longer, offering a lot of possible combat specialisations - that's what I think as well  .

[Swinglinered]

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[avv]

Yeah, a character progress should consist of many little steps, not just 7/5 giant leaps forward and should last for much longer, offering a lot of possible combat specialisations - that's what I think as well  .

So would these special abilities be like something beyond SPECIAL or just additional no-level related perks? Like vault city phoenix implants?

However you must remember that fonline is not only about pvp, players must be allowed to participate various activities with single char. The combat system itself should offer plently of tactical options so that to participate in pvp an adventurer character wouldn't absolutely need all pvp related perks. So if the combat system allowed players to switch stances that increase your accuracy, deploy overwatch mode, allow forced fire with explosives, have various equipment to spot your enemy first and have weapons that bear significant differencies depending on enviroment it would mean that knowledge of using all these features would be more than enough to make someone a good pvp player no matter of his build.

[Sius]

So would these special abilities be like something beyond SPECIAL or just additional no-level related perks? Like vault city phoenix implants?

I'm thinking about it like addition to current char development features. So SPECIAL, skillpoints, perks and these passive/active abilities. Or maybe something like "class perks" but problem with perks is that even at 4x21 lvl you have only 28 choices how to develop your char and thats would lead again to giant leaps and not step by step progress.
Simply from X level and above you will get 1 ability point per level. At trainers you will be able to spend this ability point to learn new stuff. And simply follow tree structure method so low lvl and less effective abilities has to be taken first in order to unlock better and more effective ones. And this could be something for pure PvE or even RP too.

[avv]

Hm not bad and these abilities would probably go along with profesions?

[Ombra]

FoT graphics are 2d sprites. Also they are in different angles than in Fo1/Fo2.

Really? I always thought FoT charas was 3D...

Anyway, I like the tactical improve idea, like "chess" 

[Avant]

Topic is" Future pvp theme, not "what games you like to play".

[Ombra]

Topic is" Future pvp theme, not "what games you like to play".

Worst moderator intervention ever.

I quoted a Game Master, and agree the idea of tactical improvement of PvP, so where's the OT exactly? - Avant : I just want you to stay on the topic, and discussion about games you started, simply did not look like a continuation of topic subject.

[Badger]

I really do think the idea of 'classes' is the way to go. Not strict classes, but rough outlines that people can build on.

Say, a 'Gunslinger' class. Someone who has very low AP attacks with pistols, and just keeps blasting away. He'd get perks that reduce pistol AP cost, increase unaimed critical chance, reduced AP penalties for aimed shots using pistols, better AC when he has a pistol out. That sort of thing.

Or an assault class. This guy would get perks for a tighter burst cone (making burst more effective at long range), reduced burst AP cost, better AC when he's armed with a rifle.

Or Sniper. Perks for automatic DR reduction on aimed rifle shots.

Or Doctor. Perks for reduced healing timeout, no weakening timeout when you heal, medical items are craftable without the first aid book, etc.

These are all just rough ideas, and they'd need balancing, but it'd be nice to have greater gameplay variation, rather than just another more criticals lifegiver

[avv]

I really do think the idea of 'classes' is the way to go. Not strict classes, but rough outlines that people can build on.

Say, a 'Gunslinger' class. Someone who has very low AP attacks with pistols, and just keeps blasting away. He'd get perks that reduce pistol AP cost, increase unaimed critical chance, reduced AP penalties for aimed shots using pistols, better AC when he has a pistol out. That sort of thing.

Or an assault class. This guy would get perks for a tighter burst cone (making burst more effective at long range), reduced burst AP cost, better AC when he's armed with a rifle.

Or Sniper. Perks for automatic DR reduction on aimed rifle shots.

Or Doctor. Perks for reduced healing timeout, no weakening timeout when you heal, medical items are craftable without the first aid book, etc.

These are all just rough ideas, and they'd need balancing, but it'd be nice to have greater gameplay variation, rather than just another more criticals lifegiver

Sounds neat, especially that gunslinger dude. However how would these classes cope with our profesions? Players could have their economical profesion and fighting profesion. That's one of the roadblocks that's been causing problems since forever: if you're a profesional armorer, you can't be good at pvp. This is why people make alts, or don't make alts and don't participate in pvp. Separated pvp and economical classes wouldn't gear the game away from original fallout because fallout devs had rough choices for similar system.

Player in fallouts had his fighting style and his economical style in a way. Barter, gambling and steal were all economical skills. However the game ended up encounter farming being the best choice of getting stuff.

In addition, anyone living in wasteland has to know how to fight even if he's some sort of profesional, or have someone fight for him. Otherwise he'd be dead and that's what no-pvp chars keep doing when they meet someone who wants to fight.

[Badger]

Question to the devs - is redoing perks in this way something that would be considered?

[Sius]

So lets make it clear. Profession = your occupation. Class = your character abilities that determine whenever is he dmg dealer, tank, support person or simply all-can-do kinda guy.

Not strict classes, but rough outlines that people can build on.

Exactly. It shouldn't be 1 choice what class you want to roll. It should be chain of choices that will lead you through your path and eventually tell us what have you became. Nothing like - I pick sniper for this season. No, you will have to choose from wide variety of abilities that will determine what kind of character you are. And when you roll sniper build then there should be shitload of combinations how to roll it. One green brain psychopath that will not leave his position until he gets that perfect shot without enemy even knowing where the bullet came from. Another rather "rooftop" killer with backup pistol to cover his ass when things get really ugly. Next sniper would rather use assault rifles and combine them with grenades with boosted range etc.

And these things should be possible also for PvE and RP. I mean docs, miners, thieves, drivers, bounty hunters, barters... everyone should be able to define his character through these abilities.

Also I think that classes should stand apart from professions. Even pure combat big gunner should be able to take care of his guns and repair them a bit.

Question to the devs - is redoing perks in this way something that would be considered?

Again I have to say that there are simply not enough perks ingame. You can't count on that 7/5 choices (if 21 remains max lvl as it should not for reasons I've told before) will be enough for your char development. I think abilities should stand apart as completely new feature if they should be successful. Perks should remain as they are now, maybe with some changes linking perks with abilities to balance them properly. But I think special/perks/skillpoints/abilities  is the way to go.

[iicca]

Fonline should never restrict character developlment to "classes". Classes are there already if you havent realized. Bad bad idea, very unfalloutish. Big no from me. I support the stances though, but then the whole pvp system needs an overhaul deployment and terrain vice... thats alot of stuff to do.. feels like useless jibberish to me atm.

[Sius]

Fonline should never restrict character developlment to "classes". Classes are there already if you havent realized. Bad bad idea, very unfalloutish. Big no from me. I support the stances though, but then the whole pvp system needs an overhaul deployment and terrain vice... thats alot of stuff to do.. feels like useless jibberish to me atm.

Its not about restrictions to classes. Anyone could choose anything like it is now but lets say I choose defense and support tree. I can choose anything I want from abilities in those trees only thing that limits me is my level and a need to spend some points in certain tree in order to reach for better abilities.
So you can't talk about anything like classes from the regular mmo point of view here. But if someone decides to choose abilities that affect weapon dmg, burst accuracy, reload speed and more or less ignores other trees then we may say that he rolls big gunner or simply burst dmg class or something like that. So again I have to repeat there should be no initial choices what class to roll at the character creation. Everything you are should be decided though game play and your taste.
I'm simply looking for diversion and variety because characters are now clones not only because they use one model for male/female but they use same builds too. They are simply calculated to be the most effective and there is no reason to play with something else. Sure you can do some small altering here or there but such low level cap and small numbers of perks will not let you to actually build your avatar as you like.

[avv]

Sius are you absolutely sure that pvp chars cannot be balanced by toggling the perks, stats and skills? I mean you can honestly make good chars who can do pve and craft at the same time. My current char is actually fast shotting one hander lvl3 smallguns crafter, with 100 throwing and 125 outdoorsman. Very fun class, too bad he's outgunned by big guns at close range and can't stand a chance against current snipers at long range.

If we had additional classes for pvp, it would definitely bring more dept and so on but also lots of work because it is a new feature.

I'm quite sure that balancing the most effective pvp related perks, skills and stats, adding more perks, allowing players to pick more perks for additional builds and thinking roles for differend weapons would be enough. Here's the deal: if stats bore higher role in picking perks, you couldn't fill your perk slots completely with combat perks. Let's say if everyone could choose 14 perks. There's 7 fighting perks which are unlocked by your stat-build, plus additional luxury perks (strong back, cautious nature). This means that everyone is strongly encouraged to take all fighting perks and then they got free hands to choose which luxury perks they prefer. Get it? Because I really think this could solve something. Then again this is just the class-system included in normal levelling.

To add even more dept, you could always have 3 choices every time you want to pick a combat perk, so you got actually 21 combat perks suitable for your stat build, but you can only take 7.

Fonline should never restrict character developlment to "classes". Classes are there already if you havent realized. Bad bad idea, very unfalloutish.

So you're saying no to classes, but then you say that the classes are already in the game. This can mean that you're against the current fonline style.

It doesn't matter what's unfalloutish. When it comes to game mechanics, being falloutish is not important because game mechanics have to work properly. Because fallout wasn't designed as multiplayer game, it's not viable to say that mechanics aren't falloutish. If you want to keep the game falloutish, it just means that we keep the same background story.