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[Ombra]

Update:

with the current situation of server and changes, I want to add 2 suggestions:

• Only HtHrs can use Sneak: it will be usable as a combat skill only by HtH fighters; it's more realistic (like ninjas and assassins) and it will improve HtH classes removing unrealistic use of Sneak ("big gunner predator" for example).
  Maybe devs can do this making Sneak unusable and with auto-remove when you have any non-melee/unarmed weapon in one slot (it check both active and secondary slot).
• Run and Hit: It can be a perks or a server change; anyway, HtH need to run and attack, not walk and attack. This will greatly improve their efficiency. When you click to attack an enemy, your character run, reach him and attack instead of walk.

Feedback please  
(hope that's not considered spam...)

[bipboy]

the problem for HtH build in PvP is in real time you can not hit a player while both of you are running. On the contrary your opponent can hit you, run and hit you again. I think run and hit mentioned by roach could be change to charge or something so that while running near 3 hex for example you can make a sudden move burst him 5 hay maker or try to target and break his legs in real time combat.

[gordulan]

maybe when 3D is implemented, do a grapple on him, and force him to spill his guts with your ripper

[Ombra]

the problem for HtH build in PvP is in real time you can not hit a player while both of you are running. On the contrary your opponent can hit you, run and hit you again. I think run and hit mentioned by roach could be change to charge or something so that while running near 3 hex for example you can make a sudden move burst him 5 hay maker or try to target and break his legs in real time combat.

To top it all, Range attack send you "back" when you run and they shoot you, like some sort of knockback...
Your "charge" looks cool, but I think it's too difficult to realize for devs.

I have another idea: what if we give Unarmed/Melee charas the passive ability (or perks) to regain AP while running?
Maybe in a slower rate, but it shoul help a bit...

[Lordus]

 I understand that you want to add benefit to HtH or melee skill players, because in compare of other PvP firearms skills, they have less chance to win the fight. But IMO, until they will have power armor, they will be still vulnerable.

 So stop this improvement works and lets try to look at this problem from another angle. My suggestion is, that HtH and melee skill could be special kind of skill that you can use even in guarded cities against other player, with no penalty of death from guards... Like if you are in pub and you fight with your hands only because someone told you, that your wife is ugly.. I know, that you this is abusable, but instead of raising the power of this attacks, add more occasions where you can use this skills without penalties.

[Josefista]

I understand that you want to add benefit to HtH or melee skill players, because in compare of other PvP firearms skills, they have less chance to win the fight. But IMO, until they will have power armor, they will be still vulnerable.

 So stop this improvement works and lets try to look at this problem from another angle. My suggestion is, that HtH and melee skill could be special kind of skill that you can use even in guarded cities against other player, with no penalty of death from guards... Like if you are in pub and you fight with your hands only because someone told you, that your wife is ugly.. I know, that you this is abusable, but instead of raising the power of this attacks, add more occasions where you can use this skills without penalties.

Actually I think this would be very much abusable. It would definitely lead to: no more save cities in the wasteland.

[Lordus]

Actually I think this would be very much abusable. It would definitely lead to: no more save cities in the wasteland.

 this is only example.. i want to add new purpose to this fight skills, not to level up their ability against firearms class.. but this is only idea, i never used unarmed and HtH...

[RavenWolf]

melee sneakers need silent death perk. may be de double damage bonus can be based in a sneak roll against PE.
other perks can be reworked/modified to give more advantage to melee chars (HtH evade, adrenaline rush, bonus HtH damage)

[Roachor]

melee sneakers need silent death perk. may be de double damage bonus can be based in a sneak roll against PE.
other perks can be reworked/modified to give more advantage to melee chars (HtH evade, adrenaline rush, bonus HtH damage)

Silent death will never work because you will always be seen one hex behind your target due to the new sneak system. You can't sneak attack if you can't get close enough without being seen. HTH evade would be a fun option but even dumping tons of points into it has minimal returns since past 150% you're solely benefiting from the dodge and even at 250% it's like a bonus of 16 ac.

[Arry]

Roachor, you're wrong, Silent Death work IF you are sneak, the fact that you're seen is not a matter. I've done some test with my Hth char and it seem to work even if you're seen

I like the idea to be able to fight in town, but if you kill someone, you get killed by guards...if you're not in a small and dark place

[Roachor]

Roachor, you're wrong, Silent Death work IF you are sneak, the fact that you're seen is not a matter. I've done some test with my Hth char and it seem to work even if you're seen

I like the idea to be able to fight in town, but if you kill someone, you get killed by guards...if you're not in a small and dark place

good to know

[RavenWolf]

HTH evade would be a fun option but even dumping tons of points into it has minimal returns since past 150% you're solely benefiting from the dodge and even at 250% it's like a bonus of 16 ac.

yes, that why i say "reworked/modified".

[FischiPiSti]

To top it all, Range attack send you "back" when you run and they shoot you, like some sort of knockback...
Your "charge" looks cool, but I think it's too difficult to realize for devs.

I have another idea: what if we give Unarmed/Melee charas the passive ability (or perks) to regain AP while running?
Maybe in a slower rate, but it shoul help a bit...

It was mentioned that bonus move should add a small AP regen while moving in RT. Ofc this would apply for non HtH too. But i dont see that happening any time soon, AP regen is a bit constant like it doesnt regen while you are switching weapons or doing other actions etc which sucks... :/
But maybe, in a distant future AP regen will be a valuable aspect that can be altered with skills/stats, and even perks/itemperks(like a weaponperk that when hits the enemy, lowers ap regen or special armor that boost ap regen etc)

[Roachor]

It was mentioned that bonus move should add a small AP regen while moving in RT. Ofc this would apply for non HtH too. But i dont see that happening any time soon, AP regen is a bit constant like it doesnt regen while you are switching weapons or doing other actions etc which sucks... :/
But maybe, in a distant future AP regen will be a valuable aspect that can be altered with skills/stats, and even perks/itemperks(like a weaponperk that when hits the enemy, lowers ap regen or special armor that boost ap regen etc)

Ap doesn't have anything to do with movement in realtime, if anything players should move 20% faster.

[Ombra]

I understand that you want to add benefit to HtH or melee skill players, because in compare of other PvP firearms skills, they have less chance to win the fight. But IMO, until they will have power armor, they will be still vulnerable.

 So stop this improvement works and lets try to look at this problem from another angle. My suggestion is, that HtH and melee skill could be special kind of skill that you can use even in guarded cities against other player, with no penalty of death from guards... Like if you are in pub and you fight with your hands only because someone told you, that your wife is ugly.. I know, that you this is abusable, but instead of raising the power of this attacks, add more occasions where you can use this skills without penalties.

Your idea is really abusable and don't help HtH in combat, honestly... that's not what I have in mind.
Also, when we got power armor EVERYONE will get power armor as well, so the problem remains.

melee sneakers need silent death perk. may be de double damage bonus can be based in a sneak roll against PE.
other perks can be reworked/modified to give more advantage to melee chars (HtH evade, adrenaline rush, bonus HtH damage)

That's exactly what I suggested.

I did some PvP those days and there is absolutely no chance (got 200+ HP, x2 Toughness, Bonus HtH Attacks...).
While you do 60 DMG a small gunner do me 160 DMG. Also no knockback (maybe they got Stonewall), no cripple.

If I am stronger because the enemy is a newbie or something, he simply escape and I can't do a shit;
If the enemy is stronger I'm fucked, because he can kill me while I escape.


We need a rework, SERIOUSLY.
More damage, some kind of regeneration of AP, attack and RUN, silent attacks, more damage resistance... something.

I hope not all devs share Rusty's idea that "melee is a secondary combat skill" and put this imbalance in the "to do list"...