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[Lordus]

 I suggested that all short barreled weapons and all shotguns will have no penalty in interiors. All other weapons will have penatly, that you will need more AP to use it. It is logical. Imagine situation, that you do eyeshot with sniper riffle to your knfe - attacking grandma in your livingroom. I cant imagine that, and you?

[RavenousRat]

I suggested that all short barreled weapons and all shotguns will have no penalty in interiors. All other weapons will have penatly, that you will need more AP to use it. It is logical. Imagine situation, that you do eyeshot with sniper riffle to your knfe - attacking grandma in your livingroom. I cant imagine that, and you?

Oh yes, also I want to see that minigunners, how fast he can rotate his facing, when crazy maniac with a knife running around and stabing him? ^_^
Also sniper rifle... yes... it must have at least the same penatly as scoped hunting rifle.

[Bulldog]

Trust me guys, I've played a high level Shotgunner for a long time, tested each damn shot-gun weapon, ofc pankor is the best choice, but it deals shitty 30-60(i got 60 only once) out of about 150-300 shots vs a heavily armored unit, what it really needs is pure damage, or a -DR, although the damage may seem nice at first look, when it comes to combat and all the DR and DT calculations, it is reduced significantly, if only this damn shells had some -DR or a damage multiplyer, it would solve the problem for sure, no need doing any experiments with knockbacks, it won't help, such damage won't save you if you fight some guy with 8+EN and a lifegiver in CA, he'll just stand up and nail you, just to compare, a decent BG(my BG last season) dished out something like 60-110 damage per burst VS a CA guy(as far as i remember, but anyway, a rare guy stood 2 bursts in a row), (not point blank range ofc)

[Solar]

I played high level shotgunner and afaik, it's impossible to fight against any biggunner at close range, and of course impossible to fight against snipers at long range. Shotguns at close ranges are known for being the most mortal weapons. It just needs some improvements. There are lots of ways to do it. Since these weapons have the same price than other small guns, they should have the same power.

At what point? After the different shotgun bursts they should be similar dps as an avenger ... but cheaper and less range.

[Quentin Lang]

Oh yes, also I want to see that minigunners, how fast he can rotate his facing, when crazy maniac with a knife running around and stabing him? ^_^
Also sniper rifle... yes... it must have at least the same penatly as scoped hunting rifle.

Minigunner would just bash his head open with his six barrels in a mega melee power paunch.

[Bulldog]

Solar, u mad? The damage that an avenger dishes out is uncomparable to pankor, i've already said, 30-60 and 60-110+ VS a CA guy

[Kilgore]

comparing pancor jackhammer to avenger minigun is funny as hell, also I find this thread entertaining (some dudes want to have a knockback on a shotgun which will just screw them up more since shotguns have low low range and other weapons have better)

[Bulldog]

This is just what i'm talking about, thx for the understanding dude) Knockback will only screw them up.

[NukeItAll]

Make dif types of ammo.
Example. make 1 type that improve range.
1 type that is explosive ect...

Knokback? i dont see the use in pvp...
I mean be4 you are close enouf to use it, they shoot you down with LSW/Avenger/Sniper/rocked/Assault

Thats why i think dif ammo type makes the gun more usefull with example more range...

[Solar]

Pancor - 18-29 (Average 23.5) 0 Damage mod => 23.5 Damage per bullet.
Avenger - 8 - 11 (Average 9.5) APammo 0.67 Damage mod => 6.365 Damage per bullet.

BoS CA DT - 8, DR - 40%

Pancor DRmod = 0% => (23.5 - *0.6 = 9.3 Damage per bullet
Avenger DRmod = -35% => (6.365 - (1))*0.95 = 5.1 Damage per bullet

Pancor hits with 5 shells, 5*9.3 = 46.5
Avenger hits with ~13 bullets, 13*5.1 = 66.3

Pancor takes 6AP, Avenger takes 7AP so a fair comparison is 54.25 for the Pancor vs 66.3 for the Avenger (51 for the normal Minigun to compare)

Pancor costs $50 a shot, Avenger costs $354 and Minigun costs $265.5. Of course the range is lower, but we can't have every gun having equal range.

[Tyler]

Man Solar you really crack me up with all this math bro.Do you ever test all these figures out in the game?I dont really make it a point to stop and discuss numbers while im being torn to shred by a minigun.Maybe I should give it a shot some time.

[Solar]

You do realize you're only moving about graphical representations of equations right? Those are the averages, they don't change because one is called a Minigun and one is called a Jackhammer.

[Tyler]

I do realize it looks that way but I dont see things play out so black and white most times.

Edit:I guess I should have just said that from the start because there wasnt really any need for me to be so sarcastic about it

[Solar]

Probably because its hard to take a big enough sample to get a true reflection.

Anyway, Shotguns are a niche, but I don't think the complaints in this thread are an accurate reflection of it.

[Tyler]

I can give you an example of a sittuation I was in.I have a character with the kamikazee trait and I ran into a guy in waterworks with a combat shotgun,he caught me as i was coming around a corner and from 1 hex away he bursted me for around 45-50 damage which is about half my hp and I was wearing only Leather mk1 armor.I bursted him with my 10mm smg right afterthat from the same distance and dealt a whopping 150+ without even a crit and blew him to peices.He was wearing the same armor i was and his was even in better shape.I felt like I should have been the one laying on the ground in peices instead of the other way around.