FOnline: Reloaded

[Mr Feltzer]

Also im not sure if its good idea to have an Army of NPCs:

Look at that Merc-Count clusterfuck from FO:Aus
Hahah

[Stration]

...but look at this guy http://www.2i.cz/e9ed2f05d6 it took him 6 days to gain level 100

Yeah, and instead of EIGHTEEN level 24 alts (276,000 XP each), he has ONE level 99 character (4,950,000 XP).

What was the problem again?

A person who is willing to sacrifice X time to the game will always be at a disadvantage compared to a person who is willing to sacrifice X + Y time to the game (assuming Y > 0). If we manage to convince the latter to use ONE character instead of EIGHTEEN almost equally powerful characters, the disadvantage of the former will decrease rather than increase, even if the ONE character the latter agrees to use is noticeably (but also reasonably) more powerful than any given one of the eighteen chars s/he would've used otherwise.

[Lexx]

That one character will be the ultimate owner of all low level players. Just remember the old TLA open beta, where high level characters ruled over every other player.

If at all, then the gap between low and high level players needs to be closed first. My personal fav back in the days was a fixed amount of hp and such, that every character has, regardless of level, amount of perks, etc. Etc.

[JovankaB]

What was the problem again?

I think the problem might be that if you have a 50 level PvP character with more hitpoints, action points and damage resistance like you suggested, then attacking it one by one even 18 times is worse than attacking it once with equal 50 level character. You have much less chance to win each time you attack - you will most likely be donating items and the 50 level ape can simply escape with them after a few rounds, whenever it's convenient. If it's 1 on 1, the 50 level ape is unlikely to lose confrontation as long as it has stimpaks, ammo and maybe doesn't sit right next to the entrance.

And even if 18 alts vs 1 superalt was equal (which I think is not) it would still mean that to PvP on the server after a few weeks you would have to gain 5 millions XP points.

[Kelin]

@Stration: I'm afraid I still don't see your point, so you're saying uniformity is better than variety? What's so bad about having 18 combat characters, I used to have over 10 big gunners because each of them was different and suitable for different combat situations. Imagine the guy with X time had one combat character and the guy with X+Y time had for example 10 characters. But it didn't matter because in the end any battle was 24lvl vs. 24lvl and only advantage the X+Y player had was the choice of character. Now, if you convert the same situation into your environment, any battle would look like 100lvl vs. 24lvl thus forcing the X player to spend more time on levelling.

To sum it up:
1. it would bring less variety
2. it would force to spend even more pointless time on building your character

PS: I think such was the idea behind DoCAN's "One Alt Crusade", personally I've always found it absurd.

[Stration]

Imagine the guy with X time had one combat character and the guy with X+Y time had for example 10 characters. But it didn't matter because in the end any battle was 24lvl vs. 24lvl and only advantage the X+Y player had was the choice of character.

LOL noob.

If I have 10 characters, I will have 10 chances to kill your one character because there is this thing called... wait for it... RELOGGING. Your mind = blown.

you will most likely be donating items and the 50 level ape can simply escape with them after a few rounds,

HAHAHAHAHAHA OH WOW.

That one character will be the ultimate owner of all low level players.

No. One good crit and you're dead, no matter what level you are.

[JovankaB]

What 10 chances? It will look like this - you will lose 3 times and then the 50 level APE will disappear with the loot.
A few minutes later it will be back in hope that you are stupid enough to keep donating items with your weak PvP alts.

[Stration]

What 10 chances? It will look like this - you will lose 3 times and then the 50 level APE will disappear with the loot.
A few minutes later it will be back in hope that you are stupid enough to keep donating items with your weak PvP alts.

If I'm the guy with ten level 24 chars, I will be back before you even have a chance to exit the map (ever heard of combat cooldown?), let alone loot any items.

If I'm the guy with one level 50 char, I don't give a fuck about your shitty items, I just want to kill you over and over therefore humiliating you.

The more you know, noob.

ROFL @ myself discussing with a guy that put a stationary centaur in a special encounter to guard a box with a bottle of nuka cola in it so that players (quote from memory) "don't just loot the box and run away." Seriously, WTF am I doing lol.

[JovankaB]

Depends where you stand and if you wait for armor, you can just leave the last amor set before you leave.
If it really was equal you are still at disadvantage of having to haul your 10 PvP alts to the same location
and all the relogging and equipping 10 alts instead of one. Why would you want to do it?

Also, cut the "noob" calling and ad personam or you will be outta here faster than you think, thx.

[DocAN.]

PS: I think such was the idea behind DoCAN's "One Alt Crusade", personally I've always found it absurd.

You are wrong, One Alt Crusade becomes true by game changes where You dont have to create alts to make basic things.

No lvl cap for skill points - all can craft,trade etc
Reworked Lockick skill - no need for lockpicker
Reworked Traps skill - no need for Bomber
Implmenting books which gives skill points - APEs can get crafting profesions faster and they dont need taxi alt
Moved Strong Back and Pack rat to support perks - no need for looter alt
 
etc.





There wont be any combat bonuses for high lvl characters except existing skill points after lvl 24.

However there will be some features which will convice players to play at one character.

[Kelin]

LOL noob.

If I have 10 characters, I will have 10 chances to kill your one character because there is this thing called... wait for it... RELOGGING. Your mind = blown.

There was this nice feature called idler preventing you from relogging you "noob". If any developer wants to disable this without providing any other working solution then it should be discussed somewhere else, but I was talking about a hypothetical situation without any fastrelogs.

@DocAN: Ok then I appologize for misleading info.

[Stration]

However there will be some features which will convice players to play at one character.

Finally someone who understood what my final suggestion was all about. What "features" are we talking here? Custom skins? Better chance to craft unique items? A higher chance to find special encounters? A special glow at level 99 maybe?

There was this nice feature called idler preventing you from relogging you "noob". If any developer wants to disable this without providing any other working solution then it should be discussed somewhere else, but I was talking about a hypothetical situation without any fastrelogs.

Idler is disabled on FO: Reloaded which makes your arguments invalid, but thank you for trying to contribute to the discussion.

[Kelin]

Idler is disabled on FO: Reloaded which makes your arguments invalid, but thank you for trying to contribute to the discussion.

Not at all, in fact it makes my argument even more dramatic, because one lvl 99 with +hp +ap +dr will kill all fastrelogging lvl 24 alts. Too bad you've never seen any buffed characters vs. normal ones, I have.

Finally someone who understood what my final suggestion was all about. What "features" are we talking here? Custom skins? Better chance to craft unique items? A higher chance to find special encounters? A special glow at level 99 maybe?

I don't have problem with any of these. People who keep playing on one char should be rewarded somehow from time to time, no doubt.

[John Porno]

Idler is disabled on FO: Reloaded which makes your arguments invalid, but thank you for trying to contribute to the discussion.

An argument is valid if its conclusion is logically entailed by its premises and each step in the argument is logical. Which was the case in Kelin's argument, as his premise was a fastrelog-free server.

On topic, it's not that having multiple characters is inherently bad. In fact, most people would appreciate to be able to experience a game in different ways. The root of the problem always was fast relog. Back in 2011, you'd only needed about 2 or 3 pvp chars to be able to contribute to your gang's TC action's, e.g. to take part in the end game content. Levelling 2 or 3 chars should be a manageable amount of work. If people liek Kelin or me choose to level 20 alts for variety and to try out different builds, then that's all fine and we wont be harming the server in any way. UNLESS we are able to use those 20 alts for a combat advantage.

The root of the problem is not having different alts, it's about fast relog. Fighting fast relog would be a better solution than fighting alting (is probably what kelin implied). And since proxies make it rather difficult to fight the act of fast relogging, the proper way to solve this problem is to limit the effectiveness of it. THus, theoretically, idler was a step into the right direction. While I haven't played myself during those days anymore, from the looks of it, it seemed to be rather flawed or inconvenient but ti still remains as a step in the right direction.

Also, I'm talking about the pvp part of a server here. Alting for PvE, e.g. repair char, craft char, science char is another matter.

[Stration]

An argument is valid if its conclusion is logically entailed by its premises and each step in the argument is logical. Which was the case in Kelin's argument, as his premise was a fastrelog-free server.

If an argument is not pertinent, it is automatically invalid. Protip: look at the name of this thread.

Not at all, in fact it makes my argument even more dramatic, because one lvl 99 with +hp +ap +dr will kill all fastrelogging lvl 24 alts.

Let's look at the lvl99 character from your picture:

BG, 432 hit points, 16 action points, 6% crit. chance.

Now let's compare that to the stats of ONE of my lvl24 chars (and remember that I have EIGHTEEN of them):

Sniper, 164 hit points, 12 action points, 35% crit. chance.

Now tell me, what makes you think that the lvl99 BG will be more problematic to me than a lvl24 BG (~240 hps, 14AP)? Because of these additional hit points? Dude... I will have AT LEAST 18 chances to instakill him OR serve him a chain of knock-downs combined with bypasses here and there no doubt, blind him, cripple his arms so he won't even have a chance to use his weapon, etc. In theory, he has an advantage over me, but the advantage is not even near to game-breaking. Sure, he has a very high normal damage resistance, but it's not going to matter if I play my cards right.

Things might be different if there are more people than just me and him involved in the fight, but at the end of the day his power will be equal to about one and a half lvl24 BG chars AT MOST.