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Author Topic: If it ain't broke don't fix it  (Read 14644 times)

avv

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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2012, 05:01:33 pm »

Not much to fight for? What about victory?
You can prepare infinitely but our players are too lazy to do it. For example there is no limit to how many slaveleaders you can bring on worldmap.

Theres are no means how to tell, which gang is better in a measurable way. It could be a lot better with those kinds of statistics.

I believe every tc player knows which team dominates the wasteland.
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Based on evidence collected from various sources by trustworthy attendees it is undisputed veritability that the land ravaged by atomic warfare which caused extreme change of the ecosystem and environmental hazards can be considered unpleasant, rugged and unforgiving.
Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2012, 05:31:23 pm »

I believe every tc player knows which team dominates the wasteland.
Let me guess, it's BBS consisting of all gangs of the wasteland except of Hawks and SoT?  :)
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2012, 06:42:46 pm »

The game is already incredibly competitive.
Not much to fight for? What about victory?

Competitive, I suppose so, but there is not much tied to it. There is no end-goal, fighting purely for the fight is cool and all, but there has to be more reason behind it, that is when more players are going to get interested, will have a reason to stay and continue playing. Current TC is just beacon saying "hey, we wanna fight, care to come?", it could be "hey, were literally taking over the wasteland and sucking resources to win at the end of session and be deemed the best, care to do something about it?" We could have best player statistics, hall of fame and some symbolic prizes for the best or those who have put the most effort of trying to achieve dominance. If the session would go on only for 3 months, resources would be prime target each time of the start of the session and 3 months is just enough time for those resources to matter until the end, my opinion of course depending on current sessions experience(though the income of resources have to be lowered by quite a bit in general). To prevent strong gangs dominating completely, the resources could be lowered for the first weeks from start of Wipe that come from TC box. So, other teams have better chances of taking the upper hand later. It's good that it all is in 3 month period, not only for the competing factions, but for any player, it's always fun to start fresh, enjoy the start of the session and Wipe doesn't have to be tied to large amount of changes. It's enough that the game is properly polished, refined, the in game content working as intended and even if we wouldn't get much of those 3 months concerning updates, it would fine knowing that each Wipe wouldn't be full of bugs, exploits and there wouldn't be too many radical changes witch at first nobody likes, but instead slowly adding the necessary features. That all would happen periodically, anyway, it's a matter of getting used to for the change-logs being smaller at the start Wipe, hence the topic name ''If it ain't broke don't fix it." I am talking about stability, players like constant things and don't want changes for stuff they already like and enjoy, because in practice usually it ruins the game for them. Those big change-logs doesn't help in that regard, developers literally would have more control of what they do, development would be more constant instead of trying to present us a new game each time, judging of how much they try to squeeze in Wipe, it's unnecessary. Then if there is damage done caused by bugs, exploits and broken features despite all the hard work, player could count on that Wipe is not very far and if there is something like the broken bank system money, current amount drugs from TC box, exploited Gatling's, not sure what kind of bugs/exploits existed before I started to play, but I am more than sure there has been a lot worse shit seen by other players, witch ultimately makes the game less enjoyable, that all would periodically be fixed - stability of game development.

I thought too far, sorry.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 06:53:25 pm by T-888 »
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DocAN.

  • Testing FO: Reloaded
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2012, 06:44:32 pm »

Wall888, again ...
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2012, 06:59:50 pm »

NothoughtprocessDocan, again.
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2012, 07:41:12 pm »

Competitive, I suppose so, but there is not much tied to it. There is no end-goal, fighting purely for the fight is cool and all, but there has to be more reason behind it, that is when more players are going to get interested, will have a reason to stay and continue playing. Current TC is just beacon saying "hey, we wanna fight, care to come?", it could be "hey, were literally taking over the wasteland and sucking resources to win at the end of session and be deemed the best, care to do something about it?" We could have best player statistics, hall of fame and some symbolic prizes for the best or those who have put the most effort of trying to achieve dominance. If the session would go on only for 3 months, resources would be prime target each time of the start of the session and 3 months is just enough time for those resources to matter until the end, my opinion of course depending on current sessions experience(though the income of resources have to be lowered by quite a bit in general). To prevent strong gangs dominating completely, the resources could be lowered for the first weeks from start of Wipe that come from TC box. So, other teams have better chances of taking the upper hand later. It's good that it all is in 3 month period, not only for the competing factions, but for any player, it's always fun to start fresh, enjoy the start of the session and Wipe doesn't have to be tied to large amount of changes. It's enough that the game is properly polished, refined, the in game content working as intended and even if we wouldn't get much of those 3 months concerning updates, it would fine knowing that each Wipe wouldn't be full of bugs, exploits and there wouldn't be too many radical changes witch at first nobody likes, but instead slowly adding the necessary features. That all would happen periodically, anyway, it's a matter of getting used to for the change-logs being smaller at the start Wipe, hence the topic name ''If it ain't broke don't fix it." I am talking about stability, players like constant things and don't want changes for stuff they already like and enjoy, because in practice usually it ruins the game for them. Those big change-logs doesn't help in that regard, developers literally would have more control of what they do, development would be more constant instead of trying to present us a new game each time, judging of how much they try to squeeze in Wipe, it's unnecessary. Then if there is damage done caused by bugs, exploits and broken features despite all the hard work, player could count on that Wipe is not very far and if there is something like the broken bank system money, current amount drugs from TC box, exploited Gatling's, not sure what kind of bugs/exploits existed before I started to play, but I am more than sure there has been a lot worse shit seen by other players, witch ultimately makes the game less enjoyable, that all would periodically be fixed - stability of game development.

If someone manages to read this wall of crap, please share your feelings with us!
Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2012, 07:51:39 pm »

Don't be such a trivial mammal, not my problem you can't comprehend more words than usual. :)

Here, this will suit you better.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 08:04:49 pm by T-888 »
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avv

  • Offline
Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2012, 08:08:39 pm »

A barrier of text

I'm not going to discuss any bugs, but the cycles of 3 months and the ways to get stuff in that time.

People have different speeds when it comes to farming. Some gangs are so organized and have so much time in their hands they can obtain the best equipment and characters almost immediately. Not everyone is so gifted and blessed with free time. Right at this moment that 3 month cycle would not work because of the farming required to take part in player to player activities, especially tc. Hard farmers are rewarded now quite handsomely, with a cyclic gameplay the winner would be the hardest farmer always.

It would also plain suck to level the same chars over and over every 3 months, set the network of bases and so on.
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Based on evidence collected from various sources by trustworthy attendees it is undisputed veritability that the land ravaged by atomic warfare which caused extreme change of the ecosystem and environmental hazards can be considered unpleasant, rugged and unforgiving.
Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2012, 08:35:16 pm »

I'm aware of that, though you are right about organized factions and players who literally have more time, but what do you want to fix? I don't get it. To reach a point where it doesn't matter how much you play or how organized you are and everyone has equal chances, no matter what? Come on, how does that supposed to work? It's natural that part of players excel, let it be more time or knowledge, but still. I'm already talking about some sort of precautions that wouldn't allow strong factions dominate so quickly by reducing resources that you gain from TC, but that only works to certain extent.

3 months is quite a bit of time actually, maybe it would force players to work together more, your talking from a perspective of an individual who is self-sufficient, I am talking from a perspective where a large group of players work together in order to achieve something. This is an MMO, players supposed to work together. If it's hard for you as an individual, the game shouldn't adapt to you, but you to the game.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 08:37:25 pm by T-888 »
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2012, 08:40:40 pm »

Competitive, I suppose so, but there is not much tied to it. There is no end-goal, fighting purely for the fight is cool and all, but there has to be more reason behind it, that is when more players are going to get interested, will have a reason to stay and continue playing. Current TC is just beacon saying "hey, we wanna fight, care to come?", it could be "hey, were literally taking over the wasteland and sucking resources to win at the end of session and be deemed the best, care to do something about it?" We could have best player statistics, hall of fame and some symbolic prizes for the best or those who have put the most effort of trying to achieve dominance. If the session would go on only for 3 months, resources would be prime target each time of the start of the session and 3 months is just enough time for those resources to matter until the end, my opinion of course depending on current sessions experience(though the income of resources have to be lowered by quite a bit in general). To prevent strong gangs dominating completely, the resources could be lowered for the first weeks from start of Wipe that come from TC box. So, other teams have better chances of taking the upper hand later. It's good that it all is in 3 month period, not only for the competing factions, but for any player, it's always fun to start fresh, enjoy the start of the session and Wipe doesn't have to be tied to large amount of changes. It's enough that the game is properly polished, refined, the in game content working as intended and even if we wouldn't get much of those 3 months concerning updates, it would fine knowing that each Wipe wouldn't be full of bugs, exploits and there wouldn't be too many radical changes witch at first nobody likes, but instead slowly adding the necessary features. That all would happen periodically, anyway, it's a matter of getting used to for the change-logs being smaller at the start Wipe, hence the topic name ''If it ain't broke don't fix it." I am talking about stability, players like constant things and don't want changes for stuff they already like and enjoy, because in practice usually it ruins the game for them. Those big change-logs doesn't help in that regard, developers literally would have more control of what they do, development would be more constant instead of trying to present us a new game each time, judging of how much they try to squeeze in Wipe, it's unnecessary. Then if there is damage done caused by bugs, exploits and broken features despite all the hard work, player could count on that Wipe is not very far and if there is something like the broken bank system money, current amount drugs from TC box, exploited Gatling's, not sure what kind of bugs/exploits existed before I started to play, but I am more than sure there has been a lot worse shit seen by other players, witch ultimately makes the game less enjoyable, that all would periodically be fixed - stability of game development.

I thought too far, sorry.
MY EYES THEY ARE BLEEEDIIING
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avv

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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2012, 11:48:43 pm »

I'm aware of that, though you are right about organized factions and players who literally have more time, but what do you want to fix? I don't get it.

There are two ways to help the people with less time:
Either you have infinite time to prepare like now.
Or the ceiling of preparing is lower, meaning that high end stuff like gatlings, avengers, hard drugs, best armors and so on are deleted. So that you basically have a pvp set after killing a single unity patrol.

3 months is quite a bit of time actually, maybe it would force players to work together more, your talking from a perspective of an individual who is self-sufficient, I am talking from a perspective where a large group of players work together in order to achieve something. This is an MMO, players supposed to work together. If it's hard for you as an individual, the game shouldn't adapt to you, but you to the game.

Loners will be loners. I think it's completely plausible that in 2238 world there are self-sufficient individuals. It doesn't matter that they farm alone because they will add to the game in their own way. But they can't do that if they can't get the stuff in first place.
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Senocular

  • The Real Roleplayer
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2012, 12:48:34 am »

Avv vs T-888, round 2, FIGHT!
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2012, 01:34:07 am »

There are two ways to help the people with less time:
Either you have infinite time to prepare like now.
Or the ceiling of preparing is lower, meaning that high end stuff like gatlings, avengers, hard drugs, best armors and so on are deleted. So that you basically have a pvp set after killing a single unity patrol.

Loners will be loners. I think it's completely plausible that in 2238 world there are self-sufficient individuals. It doesn't matter that they farm alone because they will add to the game in their own way. But they can't do that if they can't get the stuff in first place.

Look, there are players who don't add to the game at all, even with the infinitive time granted, they have the stuff, but there is no motivation to use it. There are the part of players, that have bases full of stuff, but yet they run around naked and troll other players, despite they had a year to farm that stuff. They aren't interested in blunt fighting, the activity by itself is boring for some, but if something more than that would be tied to it, in theory it could interest more players.

So, basically you want to make stuff easier to obtain, reasonable to achieve the necessary amount. Hey, it's already being done, for example, current change of armor system allows players to farm them instead of craft that requires blueprints and resources. If you'd count out the problems that FR provides, the game has been significantly eased since the Wipe, if you don't agree we could talk about that more. Besides, once you kill one unity patrol encounter, you get most of the set of needed equipment to fight, mediocre armor, weapon, ammunition and the rest you need is drugs witch can be obtained, traded by the extra items you gain from the encounter.

Increasing item availability decreases the value of the particular equipment eased to obtain. There has to be a line, otherwise we will find ourselves like in Fallout online tactics, I'm not aware if you played it for the short time it was active, but there was a valuable lesson to be learned. So, the deal was that you get free items from a terminal, the only restriction was that there was a fixed amount of time, no resources needed, no logistics, nothing. The only limit was a ticking clock, the effort to gain the equipment was so low, that players ran around with the equipment just as casually as they would do naked on 2238. The gear had so minimal worth, that players didn't even bother to pick it up after fighting, large part of the game just vanished away.

Point is, when stuff is made easier to obtain, you have to be damn careful about it. I'm not fond of making stuff easy (because of the value thing, ask any member of SOT, they will tell you that stuff is way to easy to get, then it gets boring), not because I sit and farm 24/7 and not that someone from my faction does that, just because I know how a large group of people does it. If you make it easier for loners, call them whatever you want, you make it easier for organized factions too. So, if you think making equipment easier to farm, get in general, that will not essentially help loners in the regard of the 3 month period, it's just going to result in faster dominance of organized factions, we'd be back at point zero. Though making the game more bearable concerning time consumption, is something I support for the greater good.

Avv vs T-888, round 2, FIGHT!

Meanwhile the common player of 2238 observes(not reading, but observing, children learn by observing) the discussion.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 01:56:00 am by T-888 »
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gyspyjew059105

  • Guest
Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2012, 07:57:48 am »

I think 3 month wipes and random changes here and there could work if the farming was easily done for everything. Like you farm drugs, caps and stuff by farming NPCs not tedius crafting and spending 5 months trying to find random blue prints to get that one that is truly needed.

A fast paced stat game on which gang does the best is a pretty good idea for those who are interested in the competition. But the thing that will always set this back and why people go solo like myself and AVV is because of base rapes. All it takes is 1 little new recruit who you think is some friendly guy to steal it all set you back another week, really I think this encourages more griefing and trolling, and gangs sabotage trolling eachother would make people quit not bring back players.

Maybe throw in some other things which aren't PvP related like faction which crafted the most, or richest faction like a locked chest where gang would store caps in to get caluclated. Maybe have something like best decorated base, messiest base. Just random goofiness to go along for those who aren't as serious about pvp like some of us. Remember this is a game of mixture of PvP and PvE players, so there needs to be rewards that fit the needs of both not just PvP or just PvE.

And yes I read t-888's posts but please next time t-888 learn the concept of the paragraph.

Oh and I guess this is where this stupid rumor started I was vile... I started this thread becuase hinkly was making me mad, something that wasn't broken and was fixed I got really mad becuase idiots stole my armor and avenger as I was switching characters and I couldn't get any more stuff for the next fight. But I solved this problem by making 10 blue suits to get gear, yup it has got to that point where you have to have 10-20 characters logged off inside hinkly to fight for an hour to regear.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 08:06:10 am by gyspyjew059105 »
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Re: If it ain't broke don't fix it
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2012, 08:54:46 am »

All it takes is 1 little new recruit who you think is some friendly guy to steal it all set you back another week, really I think this encourages more griefing and trolling, and gangs sabotage trolling eachother would make people quit not bring back players.

Gr1m you won't convince yourself that you aren't yourself. I mean what the fuck? I remember you defending this opinion, precisely the same, with precisely the emphasis on certain words. Don't tell me it's a coincidence and your some new player or something, recently registered and talking like having played this whole session and even more. I can't discuss something with someone knowing he might be talking with me through multiple forum accounts, it's fucking retarded. I can't pretend I don't know.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 09:31:40 am by T-888 »
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