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[avv]

This has already been done why its complete shit. You have this +40 critical defense and stonewall if you were to take all these perks, traits and combat helmets on top of it.

Actually the damage multiplier is there but most builds have over 4 luck which means that 1/3 of your crits do bypass, that's not very good. Sniper damages are mostly being reduced by luck, crit power resists from perks only effect the multiplier and effects. At least that's how it seems, since it's hard to tell due to crit tables being a mystery.
You can see this by shooting someone with luck1 in the arm with laser. It can do over 120 dmg. Trust me, luck is something that makes sniper crits very weak. I know this by playing luck1 sneaks. Even some crappy laser pistol does over 100 dmg.

Begining of session had it right but the changes to RBtE changed this.

That's because in the very beginning many people had luck1 builds.

What so we can sit there and shoot it 4 times in a fight with a fast shot build?

I'm talking about aimed torso shots. Nobody shoots at torso atm.

Its fine way it is what is wrong with eye head shots doing good amount of damage requires more skill points and action points to use.The sniper shot requires the most AP out of all the builds, and it doesn't make up for anything.

Well you yourself suggested that helmets could break if multiple headshots were fired at it.
Besides, the enemy builds also invested perks to resist those attacks. A build without bonehead and stonewall is very vulnerable to head knockouts.

This has already been done why we have full DR amors but the deterioration % determines the chance to reduce bypasses.

Yeah but how many people run around with less than 50% condition armors?

AVV please just play sniper for once all I see is you running around on big gunners and sneakers you do not play sniper enough as far as I see to understand what is wrong with the sniper.

I know that head/eyes are bad targets to aim. But you yourself wanted diversity in the game. If you just plant a massive buff on them head and eyeshots, nobody's gonna aim anywhere else. Why aim groins or arms if shooting in head/eyes would result in best damage and effects?
And what's more, what about the builds without anti crit perks? If you buff head and eyes so that they can smash builds with the anticrit perks, the builds without those perks would be obliterated even easier. That if something would reduce diversity because everyone would have to pick those anticrit perks to keep up.

Yes reduce the multiplier when a normal none critical shot on that unlucky roll does 4-6 damage, lets reduce it to x2 for top critical roll so we can now do 12 damage isntead of 50-60 on a bonehead build

But you could always aim in torso for guaranteed good damage - if my proposal was followed. Even if you had stonewall bonehead guy against you, you could still cause knockouts by groin and then damage through torso.

[Fat Man]

-snip-

Its about all the same damage no matter where you shoot, I have shot in every part of body but its all about the same people aim head eye because it does more damage. I think leg shots should do a little more, and I think they should make a differnt crit table for eyes, so you make a specific build. You want to do damage shoot eye, want to do knock outs shoot head/groin and want to criple limbs shoot arm and leg. Maybe some new offensive sniper perks like "limb shooter" where it increases damage on limbs or something would be interesting.

So we have RbTE for head/eye builds, maybe a "limb shooter" perk for shooting arms and legs, and hell I can't think of creative name for a groin shooter. Maybe a perk like "limb shooter" +10% more damage on limbs. So you can take the perks iron grip and tree trunk thighs to defend agiasnt the annoying cripling affects but it will at least do some damage.

The main issue I have with sniper is eye shooting this should be better, you have to line up a shot to eye it requires more skill points 250% to be exact to hit 95% and its actually worse than a groin shot or head shot which requires less skill points to aim to.

Although idea of aimed torso shot is an interesting idea, and .223 ammo having a critical perk is nice idea.

But at this point discussing new features and ideas to be added in is something more so would require a new session, as far as we know if they wipe the game agian for a new session we might not have the features of this one. It might be something entirely differnt agian.

[Roachor]

"crappy laser pistol" has 40 base damage, of course its over 100 on a crit. Mlp > sniper rifle

[avv]

Its about all the same damage no matter where you shoot

It's because of luck the enemy has. Luck reduces potential bypasses to normal multiplier hits which helmet resistances diminish. Non-finesse sniper can do feasible damage still, but with finesse it's basically impossible to kill a luck over 4 max hp bg.

Instead of adding bodypart-specific perks it'd be better that any sniper could aim everywhere. This is because if a limbshooter sniper encountered a character who had chosen anti limb-crit perks he basically couldn't win. It'd be like fighting a gatling laser build while wearing tesla. Because of this reason headshooter snipers are so bad because almost every bg is protected against headshots. It's not good balance that some builds simply can't win other ones.

That's why it'd be better that if you meet a char that is protected against headshots, you could simply shoot him elsewhere. Having torso shots to cause guaranteed damage is one solution.

The main issue I have with sniper is eye shooting this should be better, you have to line up a shot to eye it requires more skill points 250% to be exact to hit 95% and its actually worse than a groin shot or head shot which requires less skill points to aim to.

True it takes sometimes skill to put a succesful eyeshot, but sometimes it's completely accidental. You can't compare eyeshot to for example bg onehex, which doesn't really happen accidentally that often.
But it's good feature that crits can be situational. For example legshots could cause a guaranteed knockdown when shooting at running target.

and .223 ammo having a critical perk is nice idea.

Well it was more like that we could have some rare and expensive "High quality .223 ammo". That could be crafted and bought only in small quantities. Similarly rare as gauss ammo is. We could even have "high quality .44" ammo so that those magnums and desert eagles could do more than troll. There's no difference between rare ammo and guns in terms of value. 

[Fat Man]

I'm kind of a traditionalist don't really like new weapons and ammo added into the game I do enjoy the original aspect of it all, I think .223 having some hidden feature or some perk added to it in regards to criticals is something I would like not an entirely new ammo.

I think the option of making specialized sniper build is more like it instead of making something completely useless and not an option to use like eye shots. You make specialized eye shooter if you want damage, make a head spammer if you want knock outs and limb shooter for cripling, and groin is secondary option if player using bonehead, good helmet or is using a anti-cripling build.

I don't know if its just me but i hear this from many other players but the eye shot criticals doesn't seem right and only does knock down rolls rarely causes a good roll.

Of course luck is defense vs bypasses but eye shooting should be changed to do some hidden bonus to do more bypasses not saying every shot bypass but still.

[jacky.]

Add bozars.

[avv]

I think the option of making specialized sniper build is more like it instead of making something completely useless and not an option to use like eye shots. You make specialized eye shooter if you want damage, make a head spammer if you want knock outs and limb shooter for cripling, and groin is secondary option if player using bonehead, good helmet or is using a anti-cripling build.

But it's better for the game in general if many things can be done with single char. Having specific alts has been plague to this game since for ever.

[Fat Man]

But it's better for the game in general if many things can be done with single char. Having specific alts has been plague to this game since for ever.

For support stuff like lock picking crafting, repairing shouldn't need 50 characters for this sort of stuff. But the PvP isn't about single alts any more. PvP builds have always been about specializing in one area why we dont see small gun energy hybrid builds in pvp.

I don't get it any more oh fast relog making 20 characters to keep re-entering the town is okay defend this feature but then say the game should be done with less characters... Just pointing out something... Don't want to turn it into another fast relog arguement, hell I've accepted its just way it is now but still...

Think about this you advocate less character use but defend 20 wave of specialized PvP alts entering town and think there should be no relog timer.


But back to snipers I guess just have to accept this is just a support build and not a killing build like a big gunner. Just way it is no use in argueing. Maybe we get a new session with some things changed until then I just deal with it and do an epic face palm.

[Nexxos]

Thread cleaned. Keep the discussion to SG Snipers in PvP.

[Sarakin]

You probably dont realize it, but snipers excel in vast numbers, unlike bursters, which tend to do better in smaller numbers, where they cant hit each other. That being said, you cant compare 1v1 scenarios, where obviously, big gunner is performing better.
Even a slight boost (or nerf) to snipers will have in the end huge impact on the gameplay. Like I said elsewhere, snipers will be always needed and sought after for their CC abilities and range (despite of having shitty damage).
What snipers really need is kind of relaxed perequisites. Nowadays, you need to take a lot of perks and very specific SPECIAL in order to be useful, whereas big gunner just needs decent HP and APs and hes ready to roll.

[DocAN.]

Stop this bullshit, watch few Napalm movies and You will find out how to play on Sniper.  They are perfect balanced and in skilled hands can kill any other builds, even in 1v1 fight.

[avv]

You probably dont realize it, but snipers excel in vast numbers, unlike bursters, which tend to do better in smaller numbers, where they cant hit each other. That being said, you cant compare 1v1 scenarios, where obviously, big gunner is performing better.

It's not justifiable. A build that can't manage in 1vs1 is not something that should exist. Players don't always hang around with their team and there shouldn't be a situation where a player decides that he can't participate because his build isn't suitable.

What snipers really need is kind of relaxed perequisites. Nowadays, you need to take a lot of perks and very specific SPECIAL in order to be useful, whereas big gunner just needs decent HP and APs and hes ready to roll.

True, but sniper's powers are build-related. Bg's effectiveness is tied to the gear. BRD is pointless when using flamer, but Better Criticals perk can still cause trouble even with a mauser.
If snipers are going to get more space for defense-perks, their firepower must be more tied to gear rather than the crit table and perks.

[Kelin]

Some time ago I was questioning effectiveness of all sniper builds, but there have been done some critical table adjustments so for now to me it seems that snipers are quite balanced. I bring all kind of builds to TC like snipers, bursters, lasers, rockets and every build can be useful in certain situations.

[Sarakin]

Of course it is and should be possible to take out a BG in 1v1, but Im not finding it fair if a sniper takes out BG before he even has a chance to do something. Range and sight is a major factor in here.

[davrot]

Im not finding it fair if a sniper takes out BG before he even has a chance to do something.

Maybe that's why they are called snipers? Haha oh wow, what a thought process.